brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I wouldn't really want lexan panel on a daily driver. It does not curve perfectly with the roof, so when it rains pockets of water form on the front corners. Guess I could try and add extra corner brackets to solve that. Using the moonroof glass as a mold for CF plug is better option for daily driving.

Since I already have the 3.7 IM and spent some hours porting & sanding it, might as well install it. Want to see what it puts down on the dyno. Will keep my current setup and modify it once it is removed. Eventually I will swap manifolds again and get another dyno. The dyno will make the decision for me then.



I do have curved pliers, but I was trying to avoid metal since it will be scraping against the opening. Wanted something wood or plastic. Found a few items around the house to try out. Appreciate you trying to help though.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Did you use lexan? I don't daily it anyways, but I also don't have a garage. I would be worried about rain.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yes I used lexan. You would want to run sealant around whole panel and bolt holes might need some extra attention.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

If I deleted the sunroof, could the headliner and sliding visor still go back in?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

If it clears brackets. Can't really say since I have not tried it. Why is yours leaking? Seal is torn? Drain tubes clogged? You might just want to fix the problem, especially if you ever plan on selling it. If you need parts I can try and help you out like moonroof motor, etc.

Going all out on this 3.7 IM. Hope it is worth it. What would you guys say about a completely polished IM, like my plenums? Would be a lot of extra work over powdercoating or painting.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

3.7 TL IM Porting Continued....Part III

Another option would be shipping IM to Swaintech for their TBC coating.

Other TBC Applications | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings

"On some intake manifolds like a V-8, we typically coat the bottom side of the manifold to reduce the heat being transferred into the manifold. On a 4 cylinder it may make more sense to coat the entire manifold with the TBC™. Any manifold coated with TBC™ reduces the intake air temperature and that will mean more power."


Did not like the look of the casting marks where the 2 IM halves meet.



Sanded them down.


Removed these 2 small tabs.





Sanded down these ridges. 1 down, 3 to go. Manifold should weigh .5 to 1 lb less after I am done.



Good thing about the magnesium is that it is rather soft and grinds/sands very easily. Much better than steel. Even seems easier than aluminum.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Saw this in DSport Magazine and thought it was interesting. Don't think I will take it that far though.

I have never welded or owned a welder. Paying someone to stitch weld chassis would be crazy expensive, plus car would need to be repainted.

This would really be only option for me. Is the extra stiffness worth extra weight?

"A Riveting Alternative.
What about riveting in lieu of stitch welding? When the proper rivets are used and the right number installed, one may be able to get 50-70% of the strength of a weld. It is a tedious and time-consuming task that is really only advisable if someone has an abundance of time and no ability to weld. Aircraft quality rivets that are the blind-style can be used to help bond layers of sheet metal together on an automotive application. This style of rivet(that is easy to install and doesn't require access behind the panel) will only have about half the strength of a traditional rivet of the same size. As a result, the rule of thumb is to use 5 blind rivets in the space you would typically use 3 standard rivets. For this style of rivet to be effective, you need to be sure that you are using the proper material and that you are installing a significant number of these rivets.

Most hand "pop" rivet/blind rivet installers have the ability to do up to a 3/16" rivet. Both the 1/8" and 3/16" rivets are probably the best size for the DIYer. The thickness of the material as well as the amount of overlap between the layers of metal will determine the optimum rivet size. Typical 1/8" rivets are available in a host of lengths to accommodate material thicknesses between 0.125" and 0.375". The range of 3/16" rivets can secure material thicknesses between 0.062" and 0.625". A 3/16" rivet should always be put no closer than 3/8" to an edge(ideally 1/2"). This means that overlapping sheets of metal should have a minimum of 3/4" of total overlap with the rivet installed dead center of this. If there is only 1/2" of overlap, a smaller 1/8" rivet should be used. These smaller 1/8" rivets can be just 1/4" from an edge. As for how many rivets per inch, for a 1/8" rivet the center-to-center distance should be between 1/2" and 3/4". That means 16 to 24 rivets per foot. When larger 3/16" rivets are used, spacing should be 3/4" to 1" between rivets, or 12 to 16 per foot.

High-strength rivets are generally available in 18-8 stainless steel, zinc-plated steel, and aluminum. The respective shear strength would be 1650, 1050, or 700 pounds force per rivet. The cost is considerably different as stainless checks in at about $1.60 per rivet, $0.40 per rivet for steel or $0.25 per rivet for aluminum. At 16 rivets per foot, you'll be spending about $25 per foot in stainless, $6.40 per foot in steel or $4.00 per foot in aluminum".

Thought the part I highlighted in bold describes me and my build perfectly, lol.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

One side done.



Posts removed.



Weighed IM and it still registered 7.5 lbs. Have not removed .5 lbs yet.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Both sides ridges sanded down.

Do you guys think it looks better without or with the ridges?



P2R 04+ TL Gasket Arrived. Everything lines up perfect.





Cut out the Stoptech ST40 Template and fit it against wheel. Sadly it just barely touches the spoke. I would want 4 MM more clearance. 3 MM might be fine, but why push it.



For an 8" wheel would need an offset of +42 or lower to fit ST40 BBK.
For an 8.5" +48 or lower. Highest offset that clears suspension is +52.
For a 9" any offset will clear BBK pretty much. +45 or lower offset will clear suspension.

Keep in mind spoke design is different from wheel to wheel. This is for a flat face SSR Type F Wheel. Just to give an idea.

Thinking I want to go with a 9" wide wheel since it can fit bigger tire than 8.5". The problem is if I get the 18x9 +45, the inner suspension clearance won't allow me to run a wider tire than 255. I could go with lower offset of 18x9 +35, but i think that will stick out past fender and rub. That would stick wheel out 1" further than they are now.

If I want to go widebody later on though, would need a lower offset than 18x9 +45. Would have to sell wheels and buy again. Wish I could fit the 18x9 +35 with a 245 or 255 tire now, then go widebody and throw a 275 tire on. Anyone with experience with that size wheel and clearance with about -2.4 camber?

Emailed Carbotech about what pads to run for my usage. They deferred my question to one of their vendors for some reason. The vendor recommended XP8 for front and rear, but said they will be noisy. Kind of like that my brakes don't make any noise now, but gotta make compromises for performance.

"Carbotech™ XP8™
A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1250°F+ (93°C to 676°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers."

For the IM coating, I am thinking maybe run that TBC Ceramic coating on the lower half, and the BBE Heat Emmitting coating on the top half.

BBE Heat Emitting Coating | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings

Here are the IM options:

Intake Manifolds
Bottom TBC Ceramic $225 approx.
Top TBC Ceramic $225 approx.
Top and Bottom TBC Ceramic $170 – 300
Top BBE Heat Radiating Coating $95 – 175
Inside Runners Flow Coating $200
Inside Runners TBC Ceramic $200

Noticed they do the Ceramic coating on the back of brake pads also. That could be an alternative to titanium plates I bought.

Brake Components
Calipers TBC inside, BBE Outside $140.00 each
*BBE cannot be applied to Powder Coated Parts
Pads TBC Ceramic on Pad Back $15.00 each

HairyMonkey019

iTrader: (7)

ur going to track type fs?

A J32 swapped 5 speed accord broke one of his wheels at buttonwillow. 300+hp IDK exact numbers. Yes it's a real type F

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Um these are SSR wheels, used on many track cars. THEY ARE NOT ROTAS LOL.

I don't even see the SSR etching on those wheels or know their abusive history. Not gonna speculate what happened.

I have absolutely no concern about running SSR.

Will most likely go with a set of Volk wheels though to clear bbk.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Should have asked if the wheels were powdercoated. That process or the stripping process could weaken wheels.

I would recommend not powdercoating wheels you intend to autocross or track with for peace of mind.

I know tirerack received a set of SSR wheels that a customer returned that broke after powdercoating. The wheels were sent to SSR for testing and the testing showed they were significantly weaker after the powdercoating.

SSR does test their wheels by the Japanese JWL standards, unlike many companies that don't even test their wheels.

Any brand can have a wheel failure. It does not mean the wheel or company is crap. Every wheel will fail eventually if used long enough.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Can't make up my mind on wheel size. Maybe I should mod the fender to fit wheels. Would help if I actually had wheels to test fit.

My fender liners already have some scrapes on them from my 18x8.5 +52 with 255/35 tires. Don't really want to raise the car up much. Will probably have to go down to a smaller 245/40 tire for anything that sticks out more than a few MM more than my current setup. Starting to think anything in 9" width with a lower than +45 offset won't work on 245 tires without modding fender. So buying a 9" wide wheel seems pointless without modding fender. Will cost more and weigh more than an 8.5" with no added benefits.

Could just buy 2 18x8.5 wheels that will clear the BBK. Then later on I could mod the front fenders and swap the 18x8.5 wheels to the rear, then buy 9" wheels for the front. Not sure I want to mod fenders now. Have enough to deal with and wanted to do that next winter. I think this sounds like the best option.

Seems for what I want the Volk ZE40 has best size options. They offer 18x8.5 +42. Would use that in front, then swap to rear. Then they offer 18x9 +25 and +35 or 18x9.5 +30.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Is it worth paying more money for coating on the IM for the gain you'll get out of it? Also do you need that wide of a wheel? Why not just get a wheel that clears and requires no fender modding.

I think you should look into throwing a J35A3 block in there. You have all the supporting mods for it including an awesome exhaust setup and you'll gain so much torque from it. Keep your heads. That wouldn't cost more than a grand I would think. The money you'll save not coating, not modding the fenders and selling one of your IM setups would pay for the J35.

NBP_BALLER

Dang Brian you've been putting in work! Nice progress!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

For the IM I was going to powdercoat it, but thought if I am going to spend money doing that why not just get a coating that actually does a job plus looks good. If I wanted to be cheap, could spray it with can paint, but that won't stand up over time. Not gonna polish it, too much work.

The only reason I want wider wheels is so I can run wider tires. 1010 tires recommends not going wider than 255 on 8.5. Not really sure how much tire stretch is ideal for autocross or track. There aren't that many streetable track & competition tires in the sizes I can run now. If I ran full out comp tires then I would need 2 sets of tires and wheels so I can swap at events. If I stay on 200 treadwear street tires I can get tires in my current sizes though. Won't really be competitive on street tires since classes I am grouped in have no tire limit. It is still fun, but it would be more fun if I could actually be competitive. If you go up to 265 or 275 there are so many choices. If you look at any serious fwd track build for a car our size they almost always mod fenders to fit a bigger reverse staggered setup.

I have thought about a j35a3, but why remove a healthy motor? When I need to replace motor I will, just don't really see the point now. Power is not one of my top priorities on this car. There is also tuning on a stand-alone ecu to think about. That would be expensive. In retrospec, I wish I didn't bother with the IM and should have left it alone. Too far along now though. Won't get time back that I spent on it.

The only real steetable track and Competition tires in sizes I can run on current setup would be Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R or Nitto NT01 in 245/40.

This car is a never ending money pit. I cannot even see the finish line.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Was thinking about just getting new SSR flow formed wheels since they are only 360 a piece, but the weight is killing me. Current wheels are just over 17 lbs a piece. New SSR flow formed for some reason are 20-21 lbs a piece. That seems really heavy. Don't really want to run the typical rpf1's.

Forged wheels run 17-18 lbs. Would have more peace of mind running forged wheels on track. Last thing I want is a wheel failure that destroys my car.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I just meant you're putting close to a G into this IM (for power) when that money would be better directed to the J35 for power.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I understand what you meant. The IM can still transfer to the 3.5 also. Power wise I don't think this IM is better. It is better for ppl without my curent IM mods and ppl not willing to mod OEM IM. If it did not weigh almost 10 lbs less I would not be installing it.

My original goal was to see what numbers I could get with the 3.2 on stock internals. Wanted to break the 300whp mark tuned, but probably will never make that goal.

If did 3.5 then would really want to mod the fenders and run wider tires even more.

Doesn't seem like aero mods will happen this year. Aero, Wheels that fit BBK, and Tires seem more important than J35a3. Got hung up on the IM after getting stupid dyno done and wondering if TB is a restriction. Everyone was saying get that IM for more power, but after doing proper research(which I sadly did after buying IM), realized it was not the smartest decision.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

My original thinking was that I would buy this IM setup, then sell my current setup for around $700, but now I don't want to sell my Plenums because you just can't find them for sale anymore. Can get $150 for my bored & polished OEM TB.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thinking I will just stick with Street tires for 2015. Worried about heat cycling R - Comps by driving them on the street. Rotated my 255/35 Star Specs. Should have at least 1 more year in them. Going with Volk ZE40 in 18x8.5 +42. The wheel and tire will end up sticking out 10 MM more. Expecting some rubbing. Next set of tires will be 245/40 unless I mod fenders.

Ideally I would want 2 sets of rims and tires, but that won't happen this year.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

If anyone wants to join me for a track day you are welcome. So far I plan on being at Blackhawk Farms on 4-22-15 and 5-13-15. Will be at Autobahn Club on 6-1-15. Acurazine National Meet on 6-14-15. Will do autocrosses in between on weekends. Will list more events when I know. You don't have to run your car, guests are welcome. I have an extra seat if anyone wants a ride.

Ponto

Cool. I am planning on Autobahn on Aug 10. I ran that last year for my first event and it was a blast (despite toasting my all season rubber). Trying to work in a Blackhawk Farms event this year as well. If I do, I will try to line up with one of your's. I have a 2003 SSM CLS6 with only a few mods.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

All-Season. What brake pass did you run?

I will probably be at August 10th one also. Want to do as many events as possible. Just entry fees alone this year will probably run me 2k.

Ponto

Being my first event, I didn't want to go all out so I didn't switch the tires. I wasn't planning to push the car overly hard... but once I was out there I couldn't resist. Needless to say, I am shopping for better tires now as that was definitely the weak point of the car.

I have EBC Redstuff pads and was happy with them through all six 20 minute runs. I am not dedicating much more budget to the car, just want to enjoy it off the track along with a couple track events a year.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

So swaintech says they will not coat my IM. They said because it is more than one piece glued together, they will not take the risk of their process breaking down the glue. I would think it is the same or similar to powdercoating and ppl have done that successfully.

Starting to think I will just sell the IM and cut my losses. Anyone interested in 3.7 IM that I spent many many hours on. My loss can be your gain. PM me if interested. Have P2R IM spacer and 2 thermal gaskets also.

Need money for wheels.

Going to see if I can ship my spare J32a2 IM to P2R and have them port it and modify neck area. Fingers crossed that they say yes.

Scottyknows007

pmd

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Rejected yet again by P2R. They said they are too busy this time of year to do any porting work. They said only after summer 2015. You would think January is the off season.

Never realized it was so hard to get companies to take my money.

Guess I'll just throw on the BBK and front wheels and forget about doing anything else. Just focus on driving and events.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Dam. What about the guys over at King?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

They don't have the experience that P2R has with this IM and how much to port. I would think that they would just outsource the work to a local machine shop. Might as well just contact a machine shop myself then go through a middleman.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Even tried offering P2R more money, but still turned down. Feel let down considering how much praise I give them on forums and even defend them in threads. Not gonna be promoting or defending their products anymore.

Guess I will just stick with what I have and maybe throw on a 72 or 74 MM TB. Doing anything more will just not be worth the money and spent better elsewhere. Oh well can't say I don't try. Must just be a bad week.

They keep saying they are too busy in spring. I didn't know January and February were considered spring.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

So Volk wheels will take 3 months to get here from Japan. Might not even get them before my first track day. Oh well, atleast they didn't say sorry we won't sell to you.

Sonnick

You said the J37 wouldn't give much of a gain? Do you mean on top of a ported 3.2? Because I had mine ported by P2R and gained 15whp with the 3.7 manifold and TB/ported runners on my J30. P2R also said this manifold is better than their plenums and have dyno'd that as well. The manifold not only flows better, but it stays much cooler than the factory one, and saves weight. I would keep it and get a larger throttle body to match. I haven't seen your entire thread so im not sure if you already have a larger throttle body, but the factory TB is definitely a restriction to a bolt on J.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I explained it already, but can type it again. What you are referencing does not take all my mods into account.

My current setup is bored OEM TB to 70 MM, Ported j32a2 IM off the P2R race accord, MDX horns, P2R Plenums, Ported Runners, IMRC delete and air assist delete.

According to P2R, who has dyno evidence, a J37 IM with a 76 MM TB will make a whopping 3 HP more than what my setup currently is with only a mild port job on the 3.2 IM and bored OEM TB.

Now if you do a more aggressive port job and add a 72 or 74 MM TB you will already be making more power than the 3.7. If you mod the neck on the 3.2 IM so you can really port it for a 74 or 76 MM TB then it is not even a question that the 3.2 will make more power.

My current IM is already ceramic coated, so not really concerned about heat issue.

The only benefit I see is the weight reduction, which is not worth the money, plus also limiting the power potential because you can't fully port the 3.7 IM. I don't need the extra hood clearance.

All this info is from me talking to Sean at P2R. They run the 3.2 IM modified on their race accord over the 3.7. If the 3.7 was really better they would be running it.

P2R is running same as my current setup, except they have a more aggressive port job and welded extra material to the IM neck to port it to 76 MM and run a 76 MM TB. That is the ideal setup, unless you go fully custom like gerzand.

I also prefer the looks of my shiney polished plenums over the looks of the 3.7 IM. Get a lot of comments at car shows about the plenums. I know that shouldn't matter, but just another point to consider. I will be at some car shows trying to win awards.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Ordered 2 Volk ZE40 wheels in 18x8.5 +42 in mag blue. Should arrive in April or May. Will be rocking mismatched wheels front to rear, but I don't mind.

Now just need to decide if I should try and match roll bar color to wheels or go easy route and paint it flat black.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Just making noise here :

It's a shame that you cannot readily separate the two halves of the 3.7 IM. I understand that there is an adhesive that bonds the two pieces; however, it appears that that reality is the only hiccup that keeps you from moving forward with the IM project to capitalize on your diligent work thus far.

It would be interesting to see the two halves of the IM apart. That way, one could observe if there are integrated alignment dowls that help guide fitment when together; and perhaps, you could have them coated to your liking.

Otherwise, then it would just be a matter of researching to find an applicable adhesive that would provide adequate bonding with temperature resistance and a method to apply even pressure when reassembling.

Just an example:

Graphite Store: Technical Ceramics Adhesives • Magnesium Adhesives to 3200°F • Ceramabond 571 Magnesium Adhesive

I realize that that is a tremendous oversimplification, though.

Now I'm not suggesting that you trash your expensive 3.7 IM. All I'm suggesting is that with 'out of the box' thinking comes risk that may or may not pay off.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the post. That sounds like a lot of work. First, I would have to somehow figure out how to open it without damaging it. Then, figure out if there is enough material to properly port it. Try and make sure the parts fit together good without overlap or creating lips from porting separate parts. Hard to tell if it is even 2 pieces or more. There are a lot of glue seams. Find an adhesive that works on magnesium. I don't have any type of press to fit it back together, not to mention removing all the original adhesive. Then you have to worry about not putting enough adhesive, or putting to much that it sticks out and blocks what you just ported and having to grind adhesive off.

Swaintech sent me another message saying they can't coat magnesium. Not sure even I would want to tackle that project.

Sonnick

Oh really? My mistake, that's interesting...I always thought the 3.7 with a larger TB was the best OEM setup. I didn't realize P2R was running a ported J32 w/Plenums on their race car. Good info.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

Damn Brian now you've got my head spinning!
Clocked about 3,000 Mls on my J35a3 swap with PnP heads runner and ported IM with J35 runners + valve job and milled .020". It makes great power way more torque but it's starving for more air. I have a 3.7 IM and 74mm TB setting here and was working out the few things I need to get it on. But know I'm thinking I should weld up the neck of my already ported J35IM and put the 74mm TB on it. The only thing I will be missing is the plenum caps. Thought about having some 1/2" spacers cut on a wet jet. Wish the P2R caps were not so hard to find!

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

^ your running the j35 without the stock IM spacer?

You should try to get on a dyno