civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Catch can should be the #1 mod you do.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The catch can doesn't need to be cleaned out that often. Nothing like on a turbo car. My egr spacer does not cause a cel. My car has no cels and passes emissions where I live.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Can we use 3rd gen TL-S magnesium valve/cylinder head covers on our motors? Think I read someone was running CL-S covers on a J32a3 engine. That would save a decent amount of weight. Would you use CL-S or TL-S gaskets? Only difference I really see is the TL-S has the oil dipstick on valve cover.

Could go to the TL SH IM and a B series TB to save weight, but I don't think the intake is a restriction. Don't want to deal with rev hang either. The restriction most likely is the header primaries(width & length) and where they merge.

fsttyms1

You arent going to get Rev hang. You are cable tb, not drive by wire. The stock intake and TB are a restriction

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Unless it's aftermarket; those could cause what some may misconstrue as rev hang, but it's really vacuum lock.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Maybe I am missing something. P2R made 290 whp with same intake setup as me un-tuned and 302 whp 270 wtq tuned. I don't think my engine/exhaust is capable of more than that.

Would it really be worth paying over 1k for new IM setup when just running a 3.2. I dunno if weight alone would make it worth it.

I know it would be worth it if I ever do a j35a3 swap, but that won't happen as long as my j32a2 is healthy.

If my car can put down 280 whp and 240 wtq on Oem IM, then what would you expect to gain from TL SH IM and a 74 or 76mm b series tb un-tuned or tuned.

Only way to really find out is install it and dyno since my headers will be unique. I am still but hurt over the long tube headers not fitting and having to settle on modified comptech.

Do you know about the valve covers fitting?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I believe you can use the newer dipstick and run the mag covers, but I'm not 100% sure.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I was thinking that also, just hoping someone had a definitive answer.

I just read on v6p that Paul says the magnesium IM and valve covers combined would save around 10 lbs.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Sounds about right, IIRC the manifold was about 7lbs less then the stock CL-S mani.

b52bgz

What does this really do? I assume that it's an oil separator. It then keeps this small amount of oil from being fed into the AF mixture and burned? Maybe keeps the intake system cleaner? Is there a noticeable performance benefit here or is it a longevity thing?

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

you got it. if you've ever taken your intake manifold off you'd see quite a bit of oil in there. With a catch can, your intake will be clean.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Performance and longevity. It's more an issue with direct injected as well as intercooled cars, but can affect port injected and naturally aspirated cars as well.

On an intercooled car, the oil will circulate through the charge piping and pool in the intercooler, reducing the cooling capabilities and supplying a hotter charge to the engine. Hotter air can lead to detonation, and that blows motors.

On a pretty much all cars, the oil gets into the combustion chamber and causes carbon build up on the valves. This reduces performance, efficiency and can lead to detonation.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Talked to Scott today at King Motorsport. They checked my XLR8 mounts and said they were fine. That is after about 13 or so autocross events so I think this shows these mounts are good. Ppl who had issues I would think were install problems. I also have stiffy mount and shop redid my Torque dampers(might help mounts from donuting). Roll bar is done, tranny is back together and in car, new Oem clutch, pp, and flywheel installed. New Oem tranny mounts and clutch master cylinder installed. Gauges and killswitch installed.

Header, exhaust, dyno, weigh and corner balance is all that is left that I can think of.

fsttyms1

These motors need to breath. I noticed a difference on my J32A2 when i was playing around with adapters and a 80mm TB from a mustang (trying to adapt cruise control to work) especially up top. If you have all the other supporting mods the IM and larger TB will be worth it, especially with a larger intake (like 4"). If you search around used the manifold and TB can be found for 1/3 of new.

Why wouldnt long tubes fit? Poor design?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Maybe next year I can try out the TL SH IM and B series TB. I will dyno after and see what it does. I already have a custom 4" intake I made from 4" Airaid UBI plastic tubing with a 4" to 6" velocity stack and filter attached, although technically inside diameter is more like 3.6". I want to run AEM stand alone also next year.

According to Scott the headers did not clear in a few locations. I asked if they could modify to fit and they didn't seem to want to deal with them anymore or said it would be too much work. I asked if they would build me a full custom set, but they did not seem enthusiastic about that. They said it would be a lot of work, take too much time, and cost too much. I did not really want to argue with them since I want to have a good rep with the shop. They were fine with modifying the Comptech though so that is the route I agreed to.

Now I have a set of headers I payed 2k for that I can't sell. I could use it as art and hang it on wall, or I can make a video of me blowing them up with dynamite. I think the 2nd option sounds like fun.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

What causes them to not fit?

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

someone like fsttyms1 might buy them. I think he said he was going to make his own and we know he can weld...

I hope you have some good weather when the car is done to test things out!

cl82793

saw your car in person , in one of the Schaumburg autocross days, last summer.

I was already impressed of what you have done then , cant wait to see what it will do now that you have done all this work.

don't see any tl's or cl' in our area, modded as much.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is the email and pics Scott sent me:
"Attached are photos of the rear bank header. As you can see it hits the rear cross member and does not sit flat against the exhaust port. These pictures were taken with the rear mount removed. No way would it ever had fit....."




I would definitely sell them for really cheap if someone wants them. I just want them to know what needs to be done beforehand. If you are interested PM me. The person I bought them from guaranteed fitment, yet it doesn't fit and I am stuck with them. King Motorsports doesn't want to deal with them and I don't trust any other shop to do this work, so no use for me.

I think the front section will fit since seller posted pics with the front mounted on engine with subframe also mounted. I looked back through his pics and none of them show the rear section mounted with subframe also mounted. He said he thought he had pics that showed that but has not been able to provide any. Seller doesn't believe they don't fit and thinks King Motorsport doesn't know what they are doing. That last line just makes me laugh hehe.

I doubt there will be any testing besides the drive home. When I get it home I will be removing interior parts so I can remove more metal and paint interior and roll bar.


Ah nice, was the autocross in August? Did I talk to you at the event? I dunno if any of this work will improve autocross times. The roll bar might help it corner stiffer. I need to play with the rear end. I want to try different sway bars/settings and maybe go to a stiffer spring in the rear. Im at 12k front, 8k rear atm. The problem is a track and autocross setup are different and would almost need a new rear coilover set for autocross.

I also want to try it with the under body bracing removed and see what that does. I am thinking maybe the front is too stiff and some roll might help. Wish I would have modded incrementally and tested each item individually. Now I have to do it backwards by removing things.

Yea most ppl driving CL's and TL's are females or older males and not car ppl. They all just do as little maintenance as possible. I will say the best part about my car is that every time I get in/drive it I feel like I am in a race car. I always wanted to be a race car driver growing up, and it is just a special feeling that is hard to explain. I don't get that feeling driving my Focus ST.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

List them on j32a or any of the swap sites. I'm sure you can unload them on someone doing a swap.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

King Motorsports definitely know their shit but maybe they have the front header on the back & the rear on the front?

Never know

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Judging by the bend before the collector, I doubt that's the case.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I will try that.

I was reading through a build thread where a prelude swapped in a J32a2 and is running AEM's new Infinity 6 ECU with a custom harness made by Don@RPM.
Canadian BB6 J Swap
5th Gen_ H23Vtec Build/ J series Build - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums

Here is a link to Infinity 6/8h ECU.
Infinity-6/8h | AEM

Boomslang makes a plug and play harness for the CL. They have a manual or auto version.
Boomslang Fabrication LLC | AEM Infinity-6/8h

The person who is running the AEM Infinity 6 on his J32a2 prelude swap had Don@RPM make him a full harness for $1300.

This is what he posted about that versus the boomslang harness.

"
I dunno, not so fast with that harness. There is one major issue i see with that harness. You see the infinity systems have multiple platfroms, theres the Infinity 4, the INfinty 6, Infinty 6/8h and the Infinity 10. Now the I4 cannot be used so its out of questions. The I6 unit can be used and has a single 86 pin plug(this is hte one i have, which is tyhe newest to the market) and then the Infinty 6/8H has instead of a single 86 pin connector it has an 86 pin as well as a 40 pin(i thinks its forty), the infinty 10 has the same two plug connectors as the 6/8H however the firmware is different and cannot be used on a 6 cylinder.

So the isue with those harness as advertised is this, theres no data sayign which unit is being used and which plug setup it is using. Due to this you may buy an infinty 6 unit and then buy that harness and it wont work as its made for a 6/8h, or vise versa.

On top of that, you see, my harness onyl cost what it did as i want dual PCM usuability. this means that i wnat to be able to unplug the 86 pin connector, and then plug a stock honda pcm intot he harness rather than the I6. This allows me to use the stock compueter to test teh swap and the chassis works to make sure all the components work, then i can switch back to the aem at my leisure. With the ahrness youa re abotu to buy this is not possibl, so once you swap you will have a hrad time finding where any bugs or kinks that need to be workedout as you wont be able to differentiate between the issue being located in teh chassis, the motor, the harness or the computer. You see the way is et it up, i know that if ic an get my swap to run on the stock computer then it has to be swapped correctly, and tha means if i plug my AEM I6 in and i have a startup or run issues i knw oti is int he tunign or the software or firmware rather than in the car, motor, harness ect.

Thats about the only issue i can see with that particular setup. And hell 500 bucks for a wire loom thats not a full engine chassis harness is allot."

"Yes it is a full combo harness that Don had made me using a prelude chassis harness, engineharenss anda j32a2 harness. Then he made me the crossover conversion cable that plugs intot eh 86 Pin I6unit and then plugs into the stock PCM plug on the chassis/cabin harness.

The total for the whole harness including I6 harness and P8F pcm from Don was 1300 or so. Thats what i was syaing int he above post ath 599 for only a small peice of harness that you will need to modify anyway, isnt a good deal, you need a harness like this call Don, hes the one who knows the whats what and the wheres where and the whos who. "

"Thats an Infinity6/8H unit. It has two plugs rather than the Infinty6 which only has the one plug.

Being that you have the true manaul swap, this harness will work for you as they make it for the 03 CL manual."


I want to be able to swap back to stock ecu like he mentions. Can I do that with just the boomslang pnp harness or do I need to get a full custom harness made?

I need to do more research and contact these companies. Wonder if this or AEM EMS 2 is better option.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I noticed TBMotorworx is now selling adjustable cam gears. They are not listed on their website, but you can call them to purchase.
Home | TB Motorworx of San DiegoTB Motorworx of San Diego

Here is a site I use for dress up bolts. Most of the bolts also remove some weight.
- Bolt Boys!

Great site to buy from. I have bought hardware, metal, carbon fiber, gas struts, etc. from them for my build.
McMaster-Carr

I really like the titanium hardware you can get here. I am using their titanium hardware for my seats, strut tower nuts, and used it for my rear toe arm hardware. They look amazing and are so light.
Titanium bolts nuts and washers

This is where I got my lexan moonroof delete panel trim seal from.
TRIM LOK INC Trim Seal,Alum Clip,0.3 In W,25 Ft - Rubber Edge Trim Seals - 10D006|3100B3X1/8C-25 - Grainger Industrial Supply


Some good sites for racing parts/supplies:

This shop is actually down the street from King Motorsports shop. I bought my kill switch, seat belt eye-bolts, etc. from here.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/

Good site for racing gear.
SafeRacer - Auto Racing Safety Equipment, Auto Racing Gear, Auto Racing Helmets, Auto Racing Suits - SafeRacer

More racing gear. Bought my harness bar from them.
I/O Port Racing Supplies - Auto Racing Safety Equipment - Bell, Pyrotect, Kirkey - Racing Helmets, Suits, Seats

Another.
Pit Stop USA : Auto Racing Parts Superstore : Auto Racing Helmets : Hans Device : Auto Racing Suits : Auto Racing Shoes : TJOOS-3038603

You can buy track or autocross letters/numbers from this site.
iZoom Graphics, Your Best Source for Professional High Quality Competition Graphics

I like the thermal tape this site supplies.
Earls Indy


Here are the groups I run/will run with:

WCMC
Autocross

SCSCC
Salt Creek Sports Car Club

SCCA
The Sports Car Club of America - Home

GPS Track Time
GPS Track Time, LLC | Noncompetitive Driving

2 tracks I plan on going to:

Autobahn Club
Autobahn Country Club - America's Premier Motorsports Club located in Joliet, IL | 2 Road Racing Courses | Defensive Driving School, Skid Pad | Auto Country Club | Karting | Sports Car Country Club | Motorsports Country Club | Road Course Driving | R

BlackHawk Farms
Blackhawk Farms Raceway


Good info on setting up cars and driving techniques:

Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page

Rob Robinette's S2000 & RX-7 Website

Grassroots Motorsports

Go Ahead - Take the Wheel Your Guide Into Motorsports

The Ultimate Guide to Suspension & Handling

Good site to calculate tire sizes or wheel offset calculator.
Tire Size Calculator - Tire & Wheel Plus Sizing
1010TIRES.COM - Wheel Offset Calculator

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I posted Part 1 of my sale threads.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-par.../#post15242357

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I have been thinking about buying the 09 TL IM setup. I noticed P2R has a Black Friday sale for 15% off everything on their site.

They sell a package deal with the IM, Honda Top Plate, TB Adapter and 2 thermal TB gaskets. After the 15% discount it would be $387.
http://www.powerrevracing.com/ShoppingCart.asp

I am wondering if the P2R IM Spacer is worth buying.
P2R J Series V6 Intake Manifold Spacer

I could do a package deal with 09 TL IM, Accord Top Plate, TB Adapter, 2 Thermal TB Gaskets, IM Spacer, IM thermal gasket, and B Series TB Adapter for $583.

I am thinking the Accord top plate would be better because of cost. You can buy the accord plate for $64 by itself. The Acura top plate costs $192 but comes with IMRC. I most likely wont use the IMRC. The accord top plate says HONDA on it and the TL one has A logo. TL looks nicer, but not for the price.

It looks like Blox is only company that makes a 76mm TB for B series, other companies only offer up to 74mm. I would go with Blox 76mm most likely. It costs around $250.

I dunno, I like my current IM setup a lot not sure on this one.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Received some pics from Scott on header progress.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is what shop decided to go with for resonator.
MagnaFlow Exhaust Products - For Trucks, Suv's, American Muscle, Diesel, & Sport Compact Vehicles

Went with this muffler.
MagnaFlow Exhaust Products - For Trucks, Suv's, American Muscle, Diesel, & Sport Compact Vehicles

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Looks great. Clean work.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The exhaust is finished. They just need to dyno it, weigh it, and corner balance.

Here are more pics Scott sent me. I do not have pics of the header manifolds, will have to wait till I pick car up next week to see them.




G


Cant wait to drive it home.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is the Dyno after new exhaust. I am overall happy with the results. If you just look at peak hp gain it might look disappointing, but look at the graph. I was rather surprised with the torque increase, especially from vtec and up. I thought torque would stay the same or go down.



It will be interesting to see if the intake is a restriction. I want to do a dyno with a B series TB on OEM IM. I also want to try 76mm TB on 09 TL IM. I might skip the B series TB on OEM IM, because oem IM can only run a 72 or 74mm TB and I don't want to buy 2 TB's.

The modified exhaust manifolds could also be a restriction. Could try and upgrade those later on also.

I want to start working on upgrading brakes and aero work though.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

before/after comparison:

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

i think with a 76mm TB and 09 IM you'll be close to 280whp. is your oem TB bored, because i know someone who's looking for one of those

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The before dyno was posted in the after dyno graph also, or did you just want to see before separate?

I do have a bored OEM TB by Maxbore.

I also plan to tune it eventually. I think with my exhaust and tune maybe 290 peak, but it is under the curve that really matters.

Reese supposedly put down 280 with OEM IM setup like mine, and a less modified Comptech header and smaller exhaust. So 9 hp more than me peak, but around 6 tq lower. Who knows why, small differences somewhere. He added a 74mm TB to OEM IM and said he noticed a difference, but no dyno.

I will get dyno's and finally be able to put numbers to all these upgrades.

I have another big purchase in the works that I am really excited about and been waiting many years to do.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

oh haha, i didn't even look close enough. my bad. was trying to put them all nicely together.

I was going to mention Reese too. He did have better 1/4 times after the bigger TB i'm pretty sure. Now that my car is off the road, i think i'm going to send my TB off to Maxbore. I always get the CL something from Sanata.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

When you send it to Maxbore, you can have the shaft machined down for an additional $35. This was not done on one I bought, but I wish it had been.

I think my CL is getting spoiled this winter.

Did Reese mention how much time or mph difference with bigger TB? I never saw it posted. With my power now I think 12's are possible. I can't wait to get the weight so I can do the calculations. I am hoping for sub 2900, but don't want to get too hopeful.

I know with OEM IM you can only really open it up to match a 72mm TB. You can open the opening/flange area up to around 74 and run 74mm tb also.

Now I just need a custom ITB setup hehe. an you imagine how much that would cost.

Have you ever dynoed your car? What numbers are you putting down? 3 lbs of boost?

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean the inlet shaft?

I had a read and it looks like Reese had his exhaust done right after the TB so it's hard to tell.

Would you consider cams once you have tuning set up?

I've never dyno'd. I want to go in the spring. Hopefully to the same place another CL member went so I can compare. (CLprogression)

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

The shaft that holds the TB plate. What does exhaust done after TB mean?

The plan is to stay stock internals. I want to be able to buy a used engine and swap it in for cheap when needed. I do not want to blow an engine I have put over 10 grand into. If I did cams I would end up doing a full engine build at King Motorsports and that will get ridiculously expensive.

I don't think anything besides Intake upgrades, maybe header manifold upgrade, or tuning as far as engine goes is in my future. I am not really interested in FI. I have the Focus for that. There are so many other better areas I think I can spend the money.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I just meant Reese had his exhaust done right after his TB so gains are hard to determine.