brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

More Weight Removal

There is always more weight that can be removed if you have time and motivation. Some might just be tens of grams but they add up.

Not sure why I waited so long to remove these OEM front tow hooks. They weigh a little over 3 lbs. Not sure where the black paint is from, but it wasn't me.



Behind the tow hooks is sealant and bare unpainted metal. Guess that was easier than painting, then installing.

Because of this painting was needed.

Driver Side masked, sanded, and ready for primer.



Passenger Side after paint.



These would be good mounting points for Front Splitter, but don't think there will be time before my 1st event to do splitter.

Decided to Swiss Cheese the Middle Bumper Beam and Bracket. Will also use lighter stainless hardware on this and other bumper beams under headlights. Decided against swiss cheesing ones under headlights. Not worth the time and effort. No official weights.

Beam Swiss Cheesed and Prepped for Primer.





Primer applied, still need to paint.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

If anyone wants my Ron Jon rear bumper lip section for $50 picked up in NW subs of Chicago let me know. Would hate for it to never be used. Will keep side skirts just in case since no one is willing to pay a decent amount for them.

Have my 18x8.5 +52 SSR Type F wheels in silver with Carbon Fiber center caps and 255/35 star spec 1 tires. Will let them go for good price.

I also still have the Tucktech Engine Harness if anyone is interested.

Still have some interior parts if needed. Just PM me with what you need.

Gotta love listing items for sale without worrying about mods telling you to take it to BM because there are no mods in 2g CL section ever.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Hood Venting Complete

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Bumper Middle Beam Painted





Few Brackets Painted. Hanging from spare IM to cure.



Look at all the extra metal on this Power Steering Reservoir Bracket.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Pit Equipment

Tire Pressure Gauge

Been using this for last 5 years. Think it is time to upgrade.

It is good for typical street car, but only reads to 0.5 PSI. Not very accurate for autocross or track.

Went with this 99.99 PSI DIGITAL AIR PRESSURE GAUGE - Intercomp Racing. It can measure in increments of 0.1 PSI or even 0.01 PSI.



Air Compressor

If you are looking for an Air Compressor, I would recommend Viair. Love their products.

Use VIAIR Corporation - 85P Portable Compressor (P/N 00085)



Portable Compact Chair

Have been using the typical $5-10 folding chairs you can buy at Walmart. 2 have broken already and they are rather big and heavy.

Stumbled across these Helinox Chairs and had to have one.

Helinox Global | Helinox

Went with the Helinox Sunset since I like being able to rest my neck during down time. It weighs only 3 lbs and when put away is really small. Space in my trunk is limited when full of gear, so smaller anything helps.

Picked it up online for $120 shipped. Pricey but worth it.

Must say these chairs are amazing. The poles are connected with elastic tether. The poles literally pop into position on their own. Assembly and disassembly only take 1 minute. Can see why they won awards with this design. Love products like this.

Chair in Bag



Here are Poles



Chair Assembled



Headrest

The Helinox bag has velcro on the back. You can fill the bag with a sweatshirt, towel, etc. and use it as a headrest.




Tire Pyrometer

Want to get a Tire Pyrometer so I can really dial in tire pressure and camber settings.

Here is a nice read on the subject.

http://www.intercompracing.com/docum...g_Traction.pdf

Looking at either Intercomp, Longacre, or Joe's Racing Probe type pyrometer.

Wonder how necessary it is to have a pyrometer with an adjustable probe? Might not be necessary when using street tires, but not sure. Might just be better to get an adjustable one. They are expensive though.

Longacre

Could go with this Longacre AccuTech Deluxe Pyrometer 50640

This one comes with standard non-adjustable probe.

Could buy separate Longacre Adjustable Tire Pyrometer Probe 50750, but then the price goes up $100.

The Longacre Deluxe Memory Pyrometer 50690
is really nice, but expensive. It comes with the adjustable probe, so no need to buy seperate. It also stores all the tire temps and can be used as a stopwatch.

Negatives would be do really want to spend $300-400 on a pyrometer. Also have to worry about someone stealing it and it being bulky.


Intercomp

Website doesn't indicate anything about whether probes are adjustable or not so will assume Not.

Intercomp Deluxe Pyrometer

DELUXE PYROMETER - Intercomp Racing

Intercomp Memory Tire / Brake Pyrometer

MEMORY TIRE / BRAKE PYROMETER - Intercomp Racing

This one seems really nice, but pricey. It can also be used for brake temps. It mentions a Type K Tire Probe, but not what that is.

Joe's Racing Deluxe Pyrometer

http://www.joesracing.com/i-21092094...pyrometer.html

This might be my best choice for my first tire pyrometer. Price is good, don't have to worry as much about theft, it is pretty compact, and says probe is adjustable.

Anyone with experience or opinions chime in.

curtwill

I like the dedication to getting your CL as light as possible...you do it in such a 'nice' way as well...I am a little more barbaric I guess.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Your way is smarter. My way is more tedious. Still want the car to look nice.

Have more interior metal to remove, just didn't feel like tearing out interior and dash again this year.

I'd definitely prefer starting with blank shell and removing weight that way, but when I first started still needed car to get around. Didn't want the car to have any major down time where it wasn't being driven.

Wanted to ask you what size belt you are running with A/C delete? Wondering if A/C delete will throw balance/corner weighting of the car off. Would probably be smart to locate items in passenger area just for better weight distribution.

Have had autocross events where I was faster with a passenger than without(even without still have seat weight of about 30 lbs). My only thinking is car balance or I try harder with passenger, not sure which.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Registered for first autocross with WCMC on April 30th.

If anyone wants to go you can register here or just show up before 8am.

http://www.windycitymiataclub.com/wc...220&Itemid=181


Registered for King Motorsports Dyno Day 2016 on June 26th. Can sign up at King Motorsports Unlimited, Inc. - Mugen Performance Products for Honda and Acura.

Paid $70 for Show and 3 dyno pulls. Interested to see if numbers are same as last time. Feel like numbers should be little higher and maybe ECU didn't have time to relearn new exhaust since shop never drove it on street.

Just noticed yesterday the IndyCar race that is returning to Road America this year is also on June 26th. Damn really wanted to attend. Might just attend Weathertech Series Weekend instead.

ahxChun

iTrader: (1)

really like the way the hood came out with the vents

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. Think it would look little better if left a gap between 2 middle vents and had them angled little more. Placed vents to cover dents that I left in hood though so happy with outcome.

Lots of time and money invested in this hood now. Wonder If VIS Hood is even lighter after all the metal removed.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Made a cover for tiny EGR breather also.



Made a cover for Battery to keep water off the terminals.

Bent and Cut 2 Brackets. Painted Flat Black, then added 4mm Rivet Nuts to Tops. Bottom uses same screw as battery case.





Cut the panel out of 1/16" Carbon Fiber. It is held down with 2 4mm socket head bolts and is easily removable.





Could still trim it down a bit. Thinking about making alt cover next, might be tricky.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Was thinking about how I removed oem toe hooks and will be going to dyno in June. Will the shop need those points to strap car down? Not sure you can reach them with Ron Jon Front Lip installed.

Car is back together and almost ready for autocross Saturday. If anyone wants a ride along just come up and ask me.

Going to get alignment Thursday and have been thinking about that.

My front is dialed in and will use pyrometer to check camber.

The tricky part is rear. You can find lots of info for setting up rwd or awd cars, but not much for fwd.

My thinking is you want the car to tripod (lift rear inside wheel) during sharper turns to get rotation. When this happens I am literally riding on half a tire in the rear. If the rear did not lift, there would be too much traction in rear for oversteer.

For long sweeping corners you need balance front to rear and want more rear grip. This is when you don't want it to tripod imo.

Think I have this setup rather well and just want to dial in camber and toe.

Because of this, using a pyrometer on rear tires of a fwd car seems pointless.

Have been running -1 to 1.5 rear camber and 0 toe. My rear tires are only wearing on the outside 1/3 to 1/2 of the tire. I still have rubber chunks from track on inside of tires that never even gets scrubbed away. Not too worried about wear as long as it is setup right for fastest clocked times.

Worried that too much negative camber could make it harder to rotate. It would be beneficial for track, but might hurt my autocross times. Hmm

Thinking of trying -2 to -3 rear camber and maybe little toe out.

Opinions welcome. Setting up a fwd car properly can be real tricky. We don't have it easy like the rwd cars that can just add throttle to rotate.

The more I learn about the suspension geometry, physics, and car setup, the more I realize how impressive my car handles for a big nose-heavy fwd car.

curtwill

you are describing our exact scenario with our eg civic....our rears wear the outer half only...so much so that last weekend we flipped them on the rims and ran them on the front for a 7 hour enduro...only got 5 hours and had to change but it is better then tossing them.

we run about 1/4" overall rear toe out...definitely helps with rotation but we still wear the rears ...can get a bit twitchy in the wet but when you get used to it...it is lots of fun.

we will b running a little toe out in the rear with the cl when it gets finished...hopefully with somewhat similar results...I measured the 2 cars...the cl wheelbase is only 8" longer then the civic, even thought the car is 2 feet longer so I think things will be good...brakes and fire system just showed up Monday so it is time to get back on it.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Good info, thanks.

Thinking of running 1/8" toe out in rear. Run 1/8" Total toe out in front(1/16" per side). Wanting to try a little more toe out in front, what did you run on civic or plan on running in CL?

What rear camber do you run in civic?

Newer civics, the wheelbase is basically same as CL, that is how much bigger civic has gotten.

curtwill

we run 1/8 out overall front toe on the civic...no idea on camber on the civic...we are just running whatever it ended up with after installing the h&r race springs...2" drop gave us a fair bit...probably 1.5-2 deg...going to be a little more technical with the cl then the civic...it is just an old rag that we wring out 7-8 hours at a time-and it is bent from wall contact years ago...starting with a straight car in the cl will make things easier.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

My rear specs were at -0.75 camber and 0 toe. Didn't realize raising rear removed that much camber.

Going to set rear at -1.5 and 1/8" Total toe and see how that is.

Not sure if autocross will happen this weekend because of bad weather.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

While on the subject of suspension and alignment, might as well re-post this picture.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I am wondering why when I look at old alignment sheet that my caster is just under positive 3 degrees, but now I am only around positive 2 degrees when it isn't supposed to be adjustable. Hmmm.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Autocross was canceled.

Decided to just ditch rear diffuser and aero work this year. Think it isn't worth the added weight for what I use car for, and exhaust needs to be redone for more aero clearance.

I have moderators on here trying to ban me it seems. They claim my IP address is the same as a user named Specsgirl and want to ban me for having 2 accounts.

Obviously these charges are complete BS, but if I don't post on here you will know why.

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

A lot of work (and money too) just to shit can it.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I am not throwing it out, just delaying using it till next year. This diffuser weighs more than it should. Will consider this first prototype. For next one want to use different techniques and lighter materials. Might still do front splitter and block off Panel underneath. Still brainstorming side skirts.

Besides the aero work, think modding this car is close to done.

Want to start collecting extra spare parts before everything is discontinued. Parts like windshield seals, axles, secondary shaft, rear bumper, etc.

Also want to focus more on pit equipment, data collection, and other tools.

Want to take car back to King Motorsports this winter for more work. Want to Redo exhaust for more clearance before revisiting rear diffuser.

Have been thinking about taking all the cast iron suspension parts up to King Motorsports and see what their machinist says about making custom parts from aluminum and associated costs(have spares of all the's parts al ready to give shop). Parts like the hubs, knuckles, front LCA's, and front Shock Forks. That is a lot of extra weight that sports cars don't have with their all aluminum suspensions. Will probably get 5 sets made, so might have extras to sell. Want to add adjustment to front LCA's to adjust caster, etc.

Might have King Motorsports do an engine build for me down the road, will see based on price quotes. That would require atleast clutch upgrade.

As it is right now, with the state of roads in Illinois, there is only 1 track I can reasonably drive my car to without trailoring it to events. To get to other tracks is literally like off-roading and my car would get damaged.

Without a transport trailor, aero work seems rather pointless.

Maybe should look into selling Focus ST and picking up something to haul. Would hate driving a truck or SUV daily though.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Will be autocross event this weekend.

For last event, paid $30 and worked in 40 degree weather with over 20 mph winds and non-stop rain for 2 hours. Event was canceled before I got to run, but no refund for me.

Paid and got car all dirty for nothing. That bothers me more than money put into rear diffuser.

It also seems like I will never receive my plaque for first place in class last season. Another disappointment, oh well.

JarrettLauderdale

I'd look into retrofitting an '05-'12 RL front subframe in before I had replacement components made from billet. It would involve some moderate fab work, but you would be left with an aluminum subframe (that happens to easily fit a J-series engine), aluminum knuckles and aluminum 3-point LCAs. You would also have larger wheel bearings that could take more abuse.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

That sounds like a hefty and expensive project. Was more concerned with unsprung or partially sprung weight and adding spherical bearings.

Think even getting billet components machined will cost too much.

Modifying subframe, etc is considered illegal in a lot of racing classes also.

Might just say enough and put more work into Focus. Might buy new Civic R and mod that. Also been wanting to buy Ariel Atom kit to assemble. That would be fun project.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Think I'll just bring my cast iron parts along with cast aluminum rear tsx hub assembly to King Motorsports and see what they think and go from there.

Not giving up completely on aero.

Just ordered a sheet of satin silver metallic 6mm thick alumalite in 48"x96" size to make front splitter.

Alumalite is a good balance of cost and weight.

On a fwd car front splitter is most important part.

JarrettLauderdale

So now you've got me looking at the TSX rear knuckle. Would that support our style of e-brake? I ask because you're forced to use the TSX rear wheel bearing and it doesn't seem to incorporate provisions for it.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I Don't think our brake line will bolt up to knuckle/hub. What if we use brakes and lines from tsx? Or maybe just need lines and bracket that bolts to knuckle? RL comes with aluminum rear calipers, that could maybe save weight also.

Posted about this before with pics of knuckles if you want me to re-post. Think space where shock mounts is wider so would need spacer there unless run tsx shocks/coils. Might need to use some tsx arms if bushings or bolt holes are different sizes.

Will go look at knuckles again after I watch Ink Master.

yody

I didn't read thru this whole thread but quick question, not sure if you're running stock bushings in the suspension, but I have koni yellows and eibach sways and everytime I hit bumps in a car you can feel all the suspension bushings flex hard. Didn't notice as bad until I put the sway bars on. Was wondering what people did with the multi link rear suspension with all the soft bushings in it?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Most people don't do anything since they think suspension just consists of shocks/springs vs coils and lowering.

On this forum, people just run SPC camber arms/kits for alignment reasons alone or for stance. SPC bushings are worse than oem. They don't know anything else exists.

I am running a combination of oem rubber, Hardrace hardened rubber, Hardrace pillow ball bearings, and ES poly RR bushings. Also run adjustable end links in rear from fastline performance.

Had to figure this all out on my own by research and test fitting.

Can check links posted earlier in thread or look up parts for 98-02 Accord from Energy Suspension and Hardrace.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Want to expand on this.

After looking over both knuckles/hubs, I just don't think it will work.

The 2nd gen CL/TL has these 2 locations to mount parking brake wire and sensor.





Here is only mounting point on TSX knuckle I have.



Where the lower shock bolts up is different. The TSX is smaller which means CL shock/coil won't just bolt up.





The distance between these points is quite different.





Rather disappointing. Just picking these parts up is such a massive difference. CL is 26 lbs per side, TSX is 14.5. 21 lbs is a massive amount of unsprung weight.

Considering how fast car is now, imagine if all the cast iron was aluminum. Could remove probably 50-75 lbs of unsprung weight.

JarrettLauderdale

In the last picture, is the difference due to the upper ball joint mounting boss being further to the right on the TSX piece, or is it the rear upper trailing arm boss being too far to the left? And would the change be accommodated with a longer arm?

The shock mounting tabs could be worked around.

The ABS sensor issue is a known one. I am having to do the same swap on the front of my car to fit my 3rd gen TL knuckles. I'm just using the sensor from that car as well repinned into my old CL connector.

The e-brake is still the hold-up here just because of the changes involved. Still not out of the question, though. Now that I know they're aluminum, I may be buying a set for my CB Accord.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Seems like where ball joint connects is to right some on CL, hard to tell just by looking. The arm connection on tsx seems very slightly more to right also.

How would you work around shock tab? I don't have tsx end link bracket to compare that.

Could just install aftermarket handbrake like Focus ST I drove instead of oem brake? Then could do some pretty slick maneuvers with hand brake.

If I get motivated enough might try bolting it up, but pretty busy and need to get ready for autocross this weekend.

JarrettLauderdale

Well, as long as we're talking about CNC-producing suspension parts, I'd use the 04-'08 TL 6-speed/Type-S front knuckle as the template. You get an even larger wheel bearing and perfect mounting offset for OEM Brembo 4-pots. Then bore the ball joint hole just large enough to use the CL-sized lower ball joint so that no work needs to be done reaming the lower control arm to fit the larger TL joint. Then, have the tie rod end hole reamed to fit the MDX ball joint which is the largest in the Honda/Acura catalog and then use that tie rod end ('01-'06 MDX). Or, if you're having custom LCAs done, too, have the lowers reamed out for the TL ball joint like I did and you'll have a large bearing and two very large ball joints.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Will keep that in mind. My Stoptech BBK was listed for 04-08 TSX and 3rd gen TL and fit my CL.



New Grassroots Motorsports Mag has new 200 tread wear tire shootout. Not much changed since last year besides a revised Rival-S. RE-71R is still king, followed by Rival-S. My tires are old news now.

As I talk about custom suspension parts, tires alone are 1 second slower per run/lap than the RE-71R. That alone is the best mod to do. Will replace front tires with these when worn. They are getting there. All my top competitors run the RE-71R.


There is also a 5 Best Cars for $5000 article. Surprisingly there is an Acura, but of course they pick RSX and not 03CLS6. Guess it is good no one knows about CL. I'd take 2nd Gen TSX over RSX myself.

It is funny because the whole article they talk about how fwd honda/acura were so good in the late 80s to early 2000s because of having double wishbone on all 4 corners. Then they pick an Acura with double wishbone on 0 corners.

Picked up the Deluxe Intercomp Pyrometer. Made a slot in Tire gauge case to carry both. Excited to try it out this weekend.

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

No one knows what a CL is. And they have no clue how limited the six speed production was. Hell, they made less than 500 red ones (and thats with both interior colors) My guess is that less than half of the six speed cars still exist.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Well with this car, having matching numbers will never matter like it does on old classic cars.

You can take any of the tens of thousands of automatics with bad trans and swap in a 6 speed from CLS6 or even 3rd Gen TL.

One of the best things about older Hondas was the ability to mix and match parts from the different vehicles in their lineup.

AnthraciteTypeS

Jarrett, I like where your head's at with this. Thanks for doing the research. Now who's going to be the first to try??

JarrettLauderdale

In terms of using that particular knuckle and larger ball joints, I'm already there. Having them produced out of CNC billet is a different story.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Suspension Porn

Love this pic of original NSX rear suspension. Those arms are so sexy.



Check out this sexy ring to replace shock fork on this Mighty Mouse CRX. They redesigned suspension, changed mounting points, made custom arms, yet they still use cast iron knuckle/upright hmm.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...size=717%2C960

Nice read about Honda and its double wishbone suspensions and part Senna played in it. When most ppl think of Honda, all they know about is Vtec. Barely anyone realizes Honda was first automaker to make double wishbone on cheap cars, but these people don't know what double wishbone is anyway.

https://hondaroots.com/2016/05/09/ay...ne-suspension/

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

The VIN will tell you if its real though. Car Fax puts a 2K premium for cars with a 6 speed VIN. Down the road, these cars (real 6 speed cars) will start to appreciate in value. It just may take another 10 years or so.