m_rgaan

I'm actually kinda sad to see this go. The only reason I check these forums is to follow your build because it truly interests me. #GiveBrianModPrivileges

JarrettLauderdale

vbb forum format usually let's you heavily restrict privileges to certain areas, too. So he could technically be a moderator that only has privileges within the 2nd gen CL section.

I second the previous poster's sentiment. I know you get bummed out because you feel most of this thread is just you talking to yourself, but that's just how these things are nowadays. Most of the people who just have random things to say any time they open up a page have moved over to the Facebook groups. This is a good thread with trial and error, technical consideration and discussion and little, if any, cheaping out on inferior-quality products. It's a good thread and I enjoy looking at it. I may not have anything to say, but I enjoy watching you and your journey with your car.

All that I use my build threads on CB7Tuner for are to document stuff for myself. Anyway, I hope you get this resolved.

ahxChun

iTrader: (1)

i read even though i dont comment

aep4749

+1. I don't even have an Acura anymore

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

It will just come down to whether I get motivated to reorganize pictures and post another thread or continue posting with broken links.

Right now I am lacking motivation to even work on car. First time this has happened in last 6 years, gasp. Months without autocross or track events sucks. Need my adrenaline rush. Driving Focus ST is nothing like driving my Acura and can't fill void.

Started CL other day and smelled exhaust fumes.. That is one of my favorite smells. Can't wait for spring.

Main reason for my threads is also self documentation. Without this thread I would forget half of the stuff I did.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

PCI Aluminum Race Spec Side Skirts

Here are a few teasers of side skirts for you guys. I think they are gonna look great, especially with my black color theme around the bottom of the car. These are made for civic. They could be an inch longer, but they are fine for me. Have 3 options: Get really low profile jack, make skirt easily removable and remove to use jack, or cut out section in front for jack and use flexible rubber to cover gap.

Will probably remove Skirts for autocross and use mainly at track and car meets/shows. That will be more weight removed for autocross.

Still need to do final mounting. These pics just show the Skirt sitting on wooden blocks, not attached.










King Motorsports Mugen License Plate Frame

Been looking for one of these for almost 2 years now and finally found one on ebay. Might go to Dyno Day this year and get more King Motorsports/Mugen goodies.



Spoon Sports Momo Steering Wheel

Kind of working on a Momo Steering Wheel, Momo/Honda Horn Button, Shift Knob, and Oil Cap Rare Collection. Here is one new entry.

Got refunded for Sparco Steering Wheel. Found someone in Milwaukee selling this Mint Spoon Steering wheel for $275 shipped. He said it was only used for 1 car show and you can tell. It has 2nd Generation Blue/Yellow Horn Button instead of the Red/Blue one.

Interesting story about this steering wheel: This wheel is a Momo Monte Carlo Steering Wheel with Black Leather and Red Stitching. When Momo first introduced this steering wheel only the Spoon Version had red stitching. Later on, Momo started selling Monte Carlo wheel also with Red Stitching. The catch is that the Momo Montecarlo Wheel with Momo Horn Button and Red Stitching costs $190 New. The Spoon Steering Wheel costs $430-460 New. The steering wheels are identical, only difference is the Spoon Horn Button. That means if you buy Spoon wheel new you are basically paying $240 for a horn button, crazy right.

Since I found it used horn button cost me technically $50-75.

Purchased a set of Titanium Bolts from www.probolt-usa.com. The color of bolts is Purple Haze. From certain angles they look purple and other angles they look blue. Hard to capture in picture but look really cool in person.





Steering Wheel Size

My current steering wheels are both 350MM in diameter. Wondering if a smaller diameter wheel would be better for autocross. Thinking won't have to work wheel as much if smaller. Momo does sell a 280mm, 300mm, 320mm,etc. The 280mm looks so tiny and cute, but is really heavy for some reason.

This pic shows massive size difference between OEM NSX Steering Wheel and Momo Team 280MM Steering Wheel.

shawn.m

i get a kick out of readying your thread. not many playing at it anymore like you are doing

m_rgaan

Side skirts look really great bud. You should use Fender Welt to seal the gap between the bottom of the car and the side skirt. I used it for my flares and it works excellently.

I just purchased a RJ kit from someone out in Mass. I'm really excited to get it. I'm gonna take a shot at fabbing some rivet-on widebody fenders for the whole car. Nothing too flashy, but similar to the Rocket Bunny FR-S. I'll keep you updated on how it goes and looks once I work out a set.

Also got some legit Volk Lugs from a friend who bought some TE37's from Japan. The owner sent him the lugs with no key so I just had to purchase a key. But goodness gracious are they light in comparison to my Project MU lugs.

I'm glad to see you're keeping this thread going or at least giving it a shot. I'm actually really glad. My build is going in a different direction but you're great inspiration.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Congrats on finding Ron Jon kit, you gonna use whole thing?

Wanted to make Side Skirts easily removable so probably won't seal.

What you gonna fab flares out of? I've seen DIY's for fiberglass and CF.

What different direction are you referring to?

I looked at Volk Lugs, just figured if spending that much might as well get real titanium. They are nice lugs though.

drillzzz

I enjoy reading as well. Keep it up... and yes I still have my CLS

m_rgaan

Yeah, I'm gonna use the whole it. Hoping I can find somewhere local to paint it for cheap as well.

And I'm going to make the mold using foam and bondo and then just fiberglass the flares. I've seen a few DIY's also.

The direction I was referring to is kind of unsettled. I have limited weight reduction and aero in comparison to your build. I like to think one day I'll get some lighter wheels and bring the car down to Sebring, but for now, it's just a fun N/A street car.

I got the lugs for free and in relatively good shape so I can't complain.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Ah I thought you meant those crazy expensive Volk Lugs that run like $400.

Was informed today that I won my autocross class championship last year with WindyCityMiataClub.

Need to decide whether I want a commemorative plague or a commemorative jacket.

curtwill

might want to go for a plaque rather than a plague

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Haha. I am usually good at spell checking.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

2 pics of car in motion in 2015

curtwill

what size tire are you running?

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

you can see how solid it is in the turn.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Front is 18x9 +35 wheels with 255/35/18 Star Spec II tires

Rear is 18x8.5 +42 wheels with 245/40/18 Star Spec II tires

My setup is probably a little too aggressive unless you get fender work done or have car setup really stiff.

255 or 265 is probably limit for front without fender work.

My previous front setup was 18x8.5 +52 with 255/35/18 Star Spec tires. That setup pushed inner clearance to the max. My current front setup posted above pushes the limit of the outer clearance. Switched wheels because old setup didn't clear Stoptech calipers.

If you plan on running bbk, I would suggest 8.5 or wider wheel with +45 or lower offset. Don't need as much rubber in rear. Could get away with 225 or 235 tire in back.

For me around -2 front camber seems just about right. Been running only -1 to -1.5 in rear for autocross. For track might want to put even more than -2. Want to play with toe settings some.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea it almost looks like it is just parked in the lot next to cones.

Funny how i stopped getting comments about why mod a CL after car started doing better.

curtwill

going to be using stock tl 17x8 for a while...probably use 235/45r17 or might stretch a 245/40 on instead...seems I can get the hankook rs3 in a 245 at a good price and they have sidewalls a bit softer that some of the similar tires so they might go on a bit easier...your car looks sweet on the track

ahxChun

iTrader: (1)

the recaros makes you look short. lol

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. Are offset on those +45? 245/40 sounds good.

It isn't the Recaro's, I'm just short. Think that was before raised the seat and started running an extra Recaro Cushion. Imagine how fast car would be if could actually see.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Saw these Zeal Coils on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191772756156?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Look similar to mine, but not as good of shape. The price is similar to what I paid used also. I cannot guarantee fitment though, since it is for euro spec car.

If anyone is interested in a new set, I can point you in the right direction for $2300 +. At that price would recommend custom Koni setup instead.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

This is why you never see me post pictures with myself in them. Every post would just be comments on my height.

Got bashed for my height when they posted my picture in national meet award winners threads also.

Something I've dealt with since being a kid. Still remember walking through halls in grade school and other kids coughing "midget" as I walk by. Still get picked on daily for it.

You can't make fun of people over skin color, but being short and being called a midget is still socially acceptable.

Sorry for the rant, I have small man syndrome.

This isn't directed at you ahxChun, don't worry, I am use to it.

ahxChun

iTrader: (1)

Didnt mean to open a can of worm.

It was a joke. Have a set of spg with low mounts and it does the same hence why.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

being lighter is an advantage on the track!

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

Congrats Brian. I would recommend the jacket. Plaques just tend to sit around and collect dust.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I know it is a joke, just get sick of hearing it. Sorry for rant. Not sure what second part of your post is about.

Thanks. I went with plaque, would feel corny wearing jacket around.

entropeter

congrats brian on the win - go for the jacket
(you can't exactly wear the plaque, pictures are better reminders anyway)

i saw a while back in this thread, you were thinking of installing
HardRace extended ball joints (roll center adjustment).
Did you ever do this?
because i saw where you had mention that they were for the TSX, and 3rd Gen TL's.
and not for our cars. is the diameter wrong?

this kind of reminds me about looking for adjustable camber front upper control arms for 2nd gen Cl's and TL's.
I am sure that any 6th gen accord arms will do, but i'm not positive.
and if true, brands like skunk2 and hardrace/truhart open up to us 2nd gens

entropeter

(forget what i said about the jacket, my eyes failed to read your very last words there)

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks

The Hardrace extended ball joints/roll center adjusters have been installed for awhile now. They are listed for 90-02 Accord, but probably work on most Honda/Acura vehicles.

Any suspension parts for 98-02 USDM Accord will work on 2nd Gen CL or TL.

If you want full upper arms, SPC or Hardrace have them. I have both, but have not installed Hardrace yet. I did swap out the SPC bushings in SPC arms to Hardrace Pillowball bushings though.

There have always been options, just no one puts in the time I do to research it all. 3rd Gen owners still think SPC is their only option when Hardrace makes parts for them.

Lance10

Even though those side skirts are for a civic, they look almost completely stock. Very nice.

Lance10

Congrats big time on the win!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea. The civic gets bigger and longer every generation it seems. The Civic and CL have practically same wheelbase.

Thanks.

entropeter

thanks Brian, i found the hardrace 6919 extended ball joints $170
Do tell the difference you felt, after you installed them....

There is so much controversy about them.
(people who seem very technical in their geometry, say that they are unnecessary, and may have a negative results)
(while the less technical types, who just install them, say they're great)
From what i gather - they increase camber, they also raise the roll center, but reduce the roll couple, which might reduce body roll up front, but at the same time, reduce grip up front, understeer...
I am lowered 1.5 inches and even after - eibach sway bars, tanabe nf210 springs, and koni yellows - the car has the same body roll/heavy feel, as when it was stock.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I am not ignoring your post. Will reply in depth when have time to answer it properly and thoroughly.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

First off, I am no expert so take what I say with a grain of salt. There also can be more than 1 way to achieve similar results.

Can only really talk about my exact setup and experience.


Can see them benefiting certain setups and hurting others. If you are only lowered 1.5" and cant adjust strut length then I would say not necessary.

Extended ball-joints move wheels up into fender(car gets lowered) because knuckle has been raised. To re-position the wheels back to their original position in relation to fender, the strut body has to be lengthened. It is this adjustment that moves LCA back to more level position.

One benefit of extended ball-joints is an added 1/2" of suspension travel for a given ride height.

You could try stiffer springs and removing some weight. Tanabe/Koni setup is a rather mild setup that probably rides good on street. You could go stiffer, but it will ride rougher on street. Have to decide what you want. Hard to get car to handle well at stock weight.

Aftermarket motor mounts and torque dampers can help hold engine in place so it isn't shifting around.

Chassis bracing helps. I run UR 4-point mid-brace, Cusco front lower brace, and welded in roll bar. Roll Bar really helped stiffen rear and get rotation. Tried one autocross without UR 4-point mid-brace and difference was very noticeable, in a negative way(front tires weren't gripping as well). Suspension is a really tricky subject, why most people don't bother with it. Usually takes lots of trial and error. I got lucky with my setup working how I like without much trial and error.

Did not locate critical mounting points, take measurements, or graph anything. That is beyond my knowledge, experience, and tools.

One problem is that I did a lot of mods at once so hard to say what accounted for what. Should have done one mod at a time.

I did wider wheels which increased track, added new suspension arms with different bushings, extended ball-joints, welded in roll cage, corner balanced, and added new brakes that removed 17 lbs un-sprung mass from front, etc.

My car definitely is improved in all aspects over before those mods. Steering feels more responsive with better turn-in. Bumpsteer is not an issue for me. My car does not understeer. It is very neutral, but can get some rear rotation when pushed. It does not rotate rear as easily as my Focus ST, but my CL is also much more stable and planted at high speeds.

Alignment can help also if you add negative camber for better contact patch when turning.

It is better to stiffen chassis so you can run less stiff springs. This should result in better mechanical grip.

There isn't really a whole lot to read on suspension setups for fwd cars. Most articles talk more in reference to rwd or awd.

I try and read a lot of fwd racecar builds to see what others do.

Here is a good basic article to start with:

The Ultimate Guide to Suspension and Handling Part IX: It?s All in the Geometry - The Roll Center


http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...Acura-TSX.aspx

Was reading the above TSX racecar build today and thought it was interesting.

They are running OEM motor mounts with Ingalls torque damper(less vibration over aftermarket mounts).

They were on a deadline, so went with off the shelf Koni's with Ground Control Sleeves and Eibach race springs. This is temporary until they can run custom valved shocks with custom spring rates.

They run 28mm Comptech Rear Sway Bar, and Skunk2 front upper control arms for camber adjustment.

They also have a full cage welded in.

They are running no front sway bar. I guess some fwd track cars run without front sway, but I disagree with this approach and consider it a band-aid fix.

They also seem to think lifting a rear wheel when cornering is a bad thing, but my car does that and drives amazing so not sure what to believe. The CRX that beats everyone at auto-cross also lifts rear wheel. Maybe it is better for autocross than track, not really sure.

"The drawbacks of the limited spring rate and valving set up are extreme wheel lift (much to the chagrin of a number of spectators and a shock manufacturers rep at the Cal Speedway event and a modicum of mild under steer at all times and states. "

Here are a few comments from readers that I kind of agree with:

"Why did they remove the front anti-roll bar if the car is exibiting excessive roll? Looks like the car is really leaning on that front left! Thanks"

"Usually you would do that in an extreme case of curing understeer. Removing the front bar softens the front and gives it more grip. I thought most good FWD cars picked up the inside wheel? I guess the Grand-Am/SCCA guys found a better way?"

This reply is from Mike Kojima, the suspension expert. I agree with him.

A lot of FWD racers don't use front bars. Advocates say that it helps forward traction on corner exit. A lot of successful and smart people do this. I personally don't agree with it and use significantly big front bars on FWD race cars, especially those with McPherson struts.

Hope this post helps you some and just doesn't confuse you more.

Stephen00TL

Do you have any trouble rubbing the chassis braces. I'm going to order the cusco under brace and the ur 4 point in the next couple of days. I'm on koni yellows and h&r sport springs I have about a 1" wheel gap.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

If your car tends to understeer, you could try changing up sway bars. For your setup the Eibach front might be too stiff compared to rear. You could try stock front, Eibach rear. Even better would be stock front and Progress rear on stiffer setting.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

1" wheel gap isn't the best way to measure. Would be more interested in your ground clearance and condition of roads you drive on.

I have never scraped either bar yet, bit I try to avoid bad roads. Still didn't scrape driving to Kansas City and back.

I did slightly scrape my resonator once going over a speed bump in a gas station on way back from KC. Why the hell does gas station need speed bumps.