brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Didn't you know tune has less gains than an air filter heh.

Sounds like you had same reaction as me lol. If anyone has before/after dyno's of N/A j32a2's tuned I could show shop let me know. I only found one example online.

I was debating whether to even post results. Most people would keep these results to themselves.

AnthraciteTypeS

That is very very surprising. With your setup I would think you'd at least see 10-15 whp. I mean look at the 3g's on flashpro. I've seen literally dozens of (mostly swapped) cars on aem and they all see decent gains.

I know it's King and all, but was that their normal everyday tuner tuning your car?

Also in regards to redline, 6 speeds fuel cut at 7200 stock so not sure what you mean by you raised the redline to that?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

It should have been tuned by their regular tuner.

Here is a link for a 3g tuned on flashpro at KingMotorsportsUnlimited. Don't these numbers seem low also.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...s-tune-878412/

Maybe they do conservative tunes, are just use to 4 cylinders, or don't exaggerate numbers like others do. Not sure how to ask them without insulting them.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Here is message I received:

"Definitely straightened out the curve and know carries it to 7200 rpm. Tim tried everything, but its stalls out at 284 whp. AFR's are perfect as is the timing curve. We could try E85. Might be worth 15 whp, but I would have to see if you would need more injector."

AnthraciteTypeS

Not sure either. And the curve is nearly identical falling off after 6500 on both tunes so not sure what he means when he said "Definitely straightened out the curve and know carries it to 7200 rpm. "

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I never expected 10-15 peak hp, just was hoping for more low to mid-range tq. I also was wondering why the graph looks identical and see barely any smoothing.

Even P2R only claimed 9 whp or less from tune on their car with no accessories and probably lightweight pulley which frees up little extra power. Showed P2R graphs to shop and they said P2R doesn't use dynojet and dynoes in 3rd gear whereas they dyno in 4th. What doesn't make sense is I see more recent P2R posts where they claim 300whp from their 3.5 setup. Seems their claims are all over the place, plus they have parts to sell.

King Motorsport is known for having a conservative(low reading) dyno. They also seem to be known for conservative, reliable, and safe tunes which I guess makes sense if you are running engines at 7k rpm at tracks.

Our engine is only SOHC and only has vtec on intake side, so we won't see same gains as like K series with DOHC and vtec on both intake and exhaust.

Question is whether to start gathering parts for 3.5 build and make new header manifolds or just give in to F/I.

My conclusion is if you only plan on 3.2 with bolt-on then avoid ecu. It is not worth the money and having to swap ecu's to pass emissions.

Making power on Focus ST is so easy, it isn't fair.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Decided against tuning on e85. Don't think gains will be worth money or hassle of dealing with and finding e85.

Been thinking about IM and whether EMS can operate butterflies in either of my manifolds. Thinking getting butterflies to work on new IM might be hard. If I can use butterflies in stock IM with ems, might consider changing IM's again. Would do more aggressive porting, and custom 74mm K-Series TB adapter.

Also thinking about buying MDX IM Spacer and milling it down. Wonder if I can gain little low end tq without losing top end power. With new IM there is so much extra clearance to work with.

Plan is to start/finish engine build in next 2 years. Will just build separate engine on side so car doesn't have to be down so long. Not sure how far I will go with build, just have to wait and see.

Marcelechka

Considering you already have the AEM EMS2; if I were you, I'd get a turbo manifold fabricated... nothing outrageous. Preferably a really small turbo setup for quick spool to linear / usable power at the lower part of the band? Most events you participate in, you're whining out third gear any way right?

I say this only because I think you've hit your wall power wise.... yeah you can probably gain a couple of hp here & there on small mods, but, I think it's a waste of time & money.... that's just me though

vtecgobahhh

3.6/7 or FI.

or you can go evans tuning longblock for that 400+ lol

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Just comes down to cost. Could do rather simple 3.5 build with mainly oem parts and make decent gains or go crazy and do all-out build. Latter doesn't make whole lot of sense unless you are a sponsored shop car, but then again could say that for rest of my car.

Will see how car performs this year and go from there. Still wanting to stay N/A because I just love driving N/A cars. My Focus ST makes lot more low end torque, but it just isn't as much fun driving as the j32 is reving to redline. The sound of N/A j series is so much better also.

vtecgobahhh

if you are going to swap the rotating assembly, put a 3.7 in there and make about 320whp

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

Ahhhh....... The law of diminishing returns rears its ugly head. How you been Brian? I have been keeping up somewhat on here, a lot of stuff your doing is out of my limited realm of knowledge. So I just lurk.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Hey, whatsup. I've been good, excited for 2017. How are you doing? CL holding up well? There is only so much that can be done with stock internal N/A 3.2. Still think custom header manifolds would be worth it if you make primaries wider than 1.5" and longer. I also have other things I'd like to do besides just power adders like data acquisition and overlaying that data on videos, more aero, etc.

It would be tempting to buy S/C in black market and slap that on. That would take me past my planned budget for year, and go against my plan of only adding power without adding weight up front.

I am eyeing this AEM AQ-1 Data Logger posted on ebay atm.

AEM Universal AQ-1 Data Logger 30-2500

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Few Pics at Shop

Marcelechka

Car looks like a track monster!

You should seriously consider bolting a s/c w/ low boost.... I know it goes against your principle to stay N/A, but again, you've hit that wall.

I say low boost because it'll definitely gain you usable linear power. Anything beyond that is pointless as you'll be lighting up wheels all day long regardless how sticky your tires are.

Just a thought.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I have been considering all options. Want to see how car performs as-is before making any further decisions. Keep in mind a car with more power can be harder to drive and harder to learn on because power can cover your mistakes. How car is now power wise is rather nice for autocross. I can be full throttle in 2nd and not light up tires. I really only need little extra low end torque. 3.5 setup would probably be ideal.

I am also concerned about reliability and heat management. My car is so reliable as-is, don't wanna ruin that.

Maybe extra weight removed, bit more power from IM and tune, faster revving and better biting XLR8 clutch, plus new spring rates and roll bar setup will be all I need.

AnthraciteTypeS

Looks great Brian. Did you always have that front (ronjon?) lip?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Had it on all last year. It is a nice cone guard and keeps cones from going under car. Just sprayed it with black plasti-dip because it gets hit so often with cones. Surprised how well plasti-dip holds up.

Have spare bumper I'll be working on for track. Will make carbon fiber block off panels for fog light openings with holes cut for brake ducts. Will also have cf panels blocking side radiator openings and funneling air. Will use 1/8" ABS sheet plastic to make bumper filler between bumper and splitter. Will really look like track car then.

Already planning a new rear diffuser that is gonna be sick.

Working on a custom front grill also.

Soon enough Noone will know it is an Acura.

Oldsman71

iTrader: (1)

I think you should buy the whole package, then sell me the Headers, J-pipe and axel back mufflers.
I'm Doing well, thanks for asking. The CL is fine. Been to a few car shows with it, but it doesn't garner much attention. I usually take it to the golf course when I go on the weekends. Wish they would do the KC show again, as it might get a little more love there.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Don't think I'll be buying it, plus too late really for me to do anymore work this year engine wise. Honestly after 4 months I just want my car back lol.

Can't believe you are still looking for headers and mufflers.

Don't really expect there to be anymore National Meets. That was really only car show I've enjoyed. I'll still probably go to Kings 2017 dyno day as my only car show of the year. I'd rather look at cars at autocross or track events, much more interesting than hard parker crowd.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

That front lip is gonna add some downsforce on the front!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

It might help some with limiting amount of air going under front of car, and also help direct more air to radiator opening. It won't really create much downforce because of the angle of the lip. The air just slides up. You want more of a 90 degree angle from splitter to bumper. That is why I have a separate spare bumper I'll be using just for the track with a section of 1/8" abs plastic riveted to bumper going down to splitter at 90 degrees to fill gap.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

I say it will create downforce, whether little or alot because when I put the lip on during testing, it wanted to pull down and began to separate from the bumper until I put two screws inside the air dam intake area and silicone it to the bumper at the seam. Either way, enjoy the ride and drive safe!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

My lip is just held on basically by silicone and few screws at side ends. Did layer of silicone on outside top and also a layer underneath where it contacts bumper. Many many cone hits, plus driving at 120 mph it seems very sturdy. I even had someone come up to me after a run to tell me I shot a cone 20 feet into the air lol. Never saw it.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Shop will be installing the AEM AQ-1 Data Logger. ECU plus data logger should give me great info on engine and also help me improve my driving. On top of that I will have some good info to overlay in my videos to make them more interesting.

If anyone is interested here are some links to check out.


AEM AQ1 - Affordable Data Logging and More!

AEM AQ1 - Using Data to Develop a Car

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

You have been busy! Nice work as all ways! When I did my 3.5 with a lightened pulley, j32a2(6speed) cams, 10.75:1 static compression it revved slower that the stock 3.2 but defiantly made more torque (this is not a complaint). As far as the dyno numbers keep in mind that King is located over 900' above sea level and P2R is in FL only a couple feet above sea level. I've read in several books that for every 1000 gained in elevation it's approximately 2-3% power loss, that would put your numbers in line with P2R's 300 whp....just saying. A Comptech SC would definitely give you the power every where but you will pay for it in under-steer and it pulling the nose around, would definitely have to change suspension to keep handling on the track, but you will love the torque.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thnx. Shop has been busy, not me. King Motorsports did mention the elevation and other differences to me. Overall I am happy with the numbers.

If anything I am worried that my car will oversteer too much with new rear spring rates and softer front sway bar. Will be interesting to see if i am still comfortable pushing car to limit at track. Previous setup might not have been fastest, but it inspired confidence. Understeer won't be an issue with either of my cars this year.

Bense

Anyone ever convert to the 2008+ ECU to run ktuner?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Should ask on facebook.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Hey Brian, not sure if you saw on Jeries Engines Nation, but j32a2 C38 series Rotrex brackets are coming. Keep it in mind

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for heads up. I'm not on Facebook that much. So kit will cost around 6k plus 1-2k to install and tune. Would need to delete A/C and add Intercooler plus tubing. Tubing might get in the way of the brake ducts.

It would be best choice for F/I. Would like to hear how car sounds in person. Could do a full stroker build for around same price, hmm.

I see you have removed some interior weight from your TL, nice. Do you know what your car weighs currently?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I kept emphasizing with shop that my car must be able to pass emissions. Got news today they could not figure out how to do that since swapping the engine sensors.

Can I run automatic ecu? Will I need to swap sensors back to manual and modify aem ecu like dezod?

If I can't figure it out gonna have to convert everything back to stock and lose thousands of dollars.

Fuck this damn car.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Since you've converted to auto sensors, there's no reason you couldn't run the auto CL-S ECU. You'll just have to get the keys programmed

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Even though they (the engine control units) have different part #'s?

CL-S-6: https://www.acuraoemparts.com/oem-pa...1hbnVhbA%3D%3D

Auto-CL-S:https://www.acuraoemparts.com/oem-pa...9tYXRpYw%3D%3D

vtecgobahhh

He could, but he will throw codes for the auto sensors on the trans. As for the keys, theres 2 ways he can go about on that.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Hey man, I haven't read through your entire build thread. But I was in the same situation as you (I needed to pass emissions, but I was running an AEM EMS 2). I figured out a solution for me, so let me know if you're desperate.
Either I'm stupid (probably), or you shouldn't say ignorant things with such confidence. There's no way to get the auto ECU to run a manual tranny without a RV6 module. At least not without throwing codes, and he needs to pass emissions (In AZ you can't have any codes, not sure about his state).

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yea I can't have engine codes. I am rather desperate, thinking about telling shop to give up and undo everything they have done. At point where I just want my damn car back. This summer is making me think all future work needs to be done by myself.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

After looking at the ecu pinouts for both the 6spd and auto CLS', it would be a hassle to say the least to run an auto ecu. At minimum you'd have to have a conversion harness made & you'd have CELs for the trans sensors but that would be a non issue.

My apologies boys...

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I applaud any of you all whom have the discipline/interest to sit down and analyze/test and retest etc; when it comes to the complexity of this sort of stuff.

I, on the other hand, would rather pay the professionals for the proven 'canned' unit and concentrate my investment dollars on the 'tuner' side, for the best bang for my buck. Though that is just me. Easier said than done, until of late, with the availability of the plug n play dezod 6-speed unit. I guess that's why I push it in alot of my replies. If I did not have a health care deductible to satiate this year, it would get done; however, I digress...

I hope brian gets to the bottom of a solution, here, soon. I for one would like to hear the sweet 1,2 and sometimes 3rd gear revs of that sweet NA machine as he shreds those cones.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Yeah looking back at it, I should have forced shop to go dezod route instead of letting them decide. To me the dezod is still kind of a gamble with so little info and only 1 person running it.

Was able to make some calls and got my new license sticker mailed to me early. This new sticker will cover me till 11-18, so technically I could leave car as is for 2 seasons, then do work to pass emissions. Hopefully can get that done this month though.