03CLS6 Autocross/Track/Street Build Thread
08-31-2015, 07:45 AM
#642
Washed the car with the cowl removed and noticed water spots on inside of passenger side of windshield. I even purposely did not spray water in that area.
The problem is I can't reach the hole for the A/C Blower from the cowl. The holes are too small to even fit my tiny hands in. This is not an issue on the 3rd gen TL. On that car you can reach it easy. It might look like you can fit your arm down from the pic, but that is not possible. Picture is deceiving.
Wanted to put duct tape over the hole, but it is physically impossible.
Would need to remove the whole A/C system to be able to cover the hole. Once A/C system is out it will never be going back in.
Not ready to remove A/C so Cowl has to go back on.
The problem is I can't reach the hole for the A/C Blower from the cowl. The holes are too small to even fit my tiny hands in. This is not an issue on the 3rd gen TL. On that car you can reach it easy. It might look like you can fit your arm down from the pic, but that is not possible. Picture is deceiving.
Wanted to put duct tape over the hole, but it is physically impossible.
Would need to remove the whole A/C system to be able to cover the hole. Once A/C system is out it will never be going back in.
Not ready to remove A/C so Cowl has to go back on.
08-31-2015, 08:48 AM
#643
Spent 2 hours and a whole roll of duct tape and got nowhere. My hands and arms are all cut to shreds and bleeding all over the place from the sharp as a knife cowl sheet metal edges. Fun times. So worth it. Don't think anyone has any idea how much time and effort I put in.
08-31-2015, 12:16 PM
#645
At what water temps will the ecu cut engine power because of overheating?
After watching my video it seems the water temp was 180-200 for that session. Would think it would need to be much higher to overheat.
After watching my video it seems the water temp was 180-200 for that session. Would think it would need to be much higher to overheat.
Last edited by brian6speed; 08-31-2015 at 12:21 PM.
09-01-2015, 12:42 PM
#647
Don't think removing cowl is as needed on our car as the 3rd Gen TL.
Still might put cowl and Wipers back on. Gonna do some temp testing.
Have 2 autocross events this weekend and track day on 16th. Probably won't get much more work done before then.
Lots of work to do over the winter.
My goals are 2700 lbs with A/C and aero mods on 1/4 tank of gas. Once A/C is removed, I think 2600 is possible and still be street car.
09-01-2015, 01:44 PM
#648
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
did you cut any holes in the top of the firewall to allow heat to escape out the cowl? I did a bunch of holes, but want to open it up more with a dremel. I did the same on our new Odyssey. It seems to have helped as the hood used to be crazy hot after a drive.
I'm not sure about the water temps. I've had trouble emailing the logs I've got. I was hoping to have boost/air temp logs and one day do an intercooler to see the after results.
I'm not sure about the water temps. I've had trouble emailing the logs I've got. I was hoping to have boost/air temp logs and one day do an intercooler to see the after results.
09-01-2015, 03:24 PM
#649
did you cut any holes in the top of the firewall to allow heat to escape out the cowl? I did a bunch of holes, but want to open it up more with a dremel. I did the same on our new Odyssey. It seems to have helped as the hood used to be crazy hot after a drive.
I'm not sure about the water temps. I've had trouble emailing the logs I've got. I was hoping to have boost/air temp logs and one day do an intercooler to see the after results.
I'm not sure about the water temps. I've had trouble emailing the logs I've got. I was hoping to have boost/air temp logs and one day do an intercooler to see the after results.
09-01-2015, 11:11 PM
#650
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
I've done something similar to this.
Just finished up, yes I know I'm kinda late in season 
. But here is my "swiss cheese" cowl:
3/8" Holes all across the very top so sitting water won't seep through.
The stock vents are all functional now since they can get some hot air through. I cut the small rectangular sections of the cowl that sit just above the firewall insulation. On the far left side I can actually see my cabin air filter. My engine bay usually stays clean from water and debris, but if leaves and other junk start sneaking through, I can always cover the hole on the far left with wire mesh used for screen doors..
After a 15-20 drive I could actually feel the hot air escaping out of the holes and vents. I also touched my CAI and it was way cooler than it used to be. The CAI area closest to the fender is just warm, not hot like it used to be; which leads me to believe that now there is much cooler air entering the manifold while moving. I know this isn't as functional as a vented hood, but something is better than nothing
Mods please delete my previous post
. But here is my "swiss cheese" cowl:3/8" Holes all across the very top so sitting water won't seep through.
The stock vents are all functional now since they can get some hot air through. I cut the small rectangular sections of the cowl that sit just above the firewall insulation. On the far left side I can actually see my cabin air filter. My engine bay usually stays clean from water and debris, but if leaves and other junk start sneaking through, I can always cover the hole on the far left with wire mesh used for screen doors..
After a 15-20 drive I could actually feel the hot air escaping out of the holes and vents. I also touched my CAI and it was way cooler than it used to be. The CAI area closest to the fender is just warm, not hot like it used to be; which leads me to believe that now there is much cooler air entering the manifold while moving. I know this isn't as functional as a vented hood, but something is better than nothing
Mods please delete my previous post
09-02-2015, 06:12 AM
#651
Interesting. That could be a possibility. Might like it more for weight loss than cooling though.
Might want to do something similar to this where you cut the hood and bend the panels down.
Don't think cooling is really issue though. Then you have to take into account the added drag from cooling needed and worth it.
My aero mods will be more minimal than other cars(cough Vill0169).
Am thinking for the 2 main tracks I'll be running, aero isn't as necessary and could increase lap times at my modest power levels. Might change if start going to Road America.
- Ron Jon Front Lip with smaller wood or alumilite splitter.
- Probably no canards but maybe something to block the air from hitting part of the front tires since mine stick out so much.
- Not sure about side skirts. Can barely fit my jack under as is. Unless buy really low profile jack.
- Small rear wing. Aeromotions to be exact. Just need to decide how to mount it and keep trunk functional.
- Warhorse Modular rear diffuser. Will need extra custom work to fit just right.
Might want to do something similar to this where you cut the hood and bend the panels down.
Don't think cooling is really issue though. Then you have to take into account the added drag from cooling needed and worth it.
My aero mods will be more minimal than other cars(cough Vill0169).
Am thinking for the 2 main tracks I'll be running, aero isn't as necessary and could increase lap times at my modest power levels. Might change if start going to Road America.- Ron Jon Front Lip with smaller wood or alumilite splitter.
- Probably no canards but maybe something to block the air from hitting part of the front tires since mine stick out so much.
- Not sure about side skirts. Can barely fit my jack under as is. Unless buy really low profile jack.
- Small rear wing. Aeromotions to be exact. Just need to decide how to mount it and keep trunk functional.
- Warhorse Modular rear diffuser. Will need extra custom work to fit just right.
09-02-2015, 06:21 AM
#652
Was reading Vill0169's thread again for inspiration and noticed this post.
"What I thought was fuel cut in high speed, high G corners is actually a drop in oil pressure and the ecu is cutting because of it. I have noticed oil burn at my local track and is the only place i get the cutting out so I'm positive thats the cause."
That sounds exactly like my problem. Checked my oil level after getting home from track and it was a little under the minimum line on dip stick. I was only really having the cut at one section of the track also.
It might have been low from me cleaning out catch can or from oil burn, not really sure. Need to monitor these things closer.
Baffled oil pan or Accusump might be answer. Definitely want an oil pressure gauge with warning light.
Think it is good to iron out these issues before doing any serious engine work and blowing a 10k plus motor up.
"What I thought was fuel cut in high speed, high G corners is actually a drop in oil pressure and the ecu is cutting because of it. I have noticed oil burn at my local track and is the only place i get the cutting out so I'm positive thats the cause."
That sounds exactly like my problem. Checked my oil level after getting home from track and it was a little under the minimum line on dip stick. I was only really having the cut at one section of the track also.
It might have been low from me cleaning out catch can or from oil burn, not really sure. Need to monitor these things closer.
Baffled oil pan or Accusump might be answer. Definitely want an oil pressure gauge with warning light.
Think it is good to iron out these issues before doing any serious engine work and blowing a 10k plus motor up.
09-03-2015, 11:17 AM
#657
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Will try it out with cowl removed and keep an eye on temps.
Looked up the C7 curb weights and power to compare power to weight to my car.
My CL at 2797 lbs has 8.9 lbs weight for every 1 HP.
C7 Z51 3400 lbs, 460 HP = 7.4 lb per HP
C7 Z06 3524 lbs, 650 HP = 5.4 lb per HP
With work could match the C7 Z51 power to weight, but the Z06 is another level. Would take full out N/A build or FI to get close to that.
Even if my car was 2700 lbs and made 450 HP it would only be 6 lb per HP.
Would need to out corner and out brake, which is possible.
Looked up the C7 curb weights and power to compare power to weight to my car.
My CL at 2797 lbs has 8.9 lbs weight for every 1 HP.
C7 Z51 3400 lbs, 460 HP = 7.4 lb per HP
C7 Z06 3524 lbs, 650 HP = 5.4 lb per HP
With work could match the C7 Z51 power to weight, but the Z06 is another level. Would take full out N/A build or FI to get close to that.
Even if my car was 2700 lbs and made 450 HP it would only be 6 lb per HP.
Would need to out corner and out brake, which is possible.
This puts me at 4.5 lb per hp.
So, therefore I'd say it would be fairly easy for you to attain, and crush, the C7 Z06's lb/hp ratio
...with some boost or nitrous!
09-03-2015, 01:04 PM
#658
Thanks Gerzand, but no FI planned for me.
I just totally fucked up my hood.
It is wavy as hell now. Gonna have to buy Carbon fiber hood now.
Should not have tried this just days before my events.
I just totally fucked up my hood.
It is wavy as hell now. Gonna have to buy Carbon fiber hood now.Should not have tried this just days before my events.
Last edited by brian6speed; 09-03-2015 at 01:15 PM.
09-03-2015, 02:44 PM
#661
Always wanted to do body color on outer sections until crease, then the middle leave it so you can see Carbon but put some silver sparkle in the clear coat. Depends how good weave looks though.
Last edited by brian6speed; 09-03-2015 at 02:48 PM.
09-04-2015, 04:12 PM
#662
Might be able to salvage hood if I cut out the damaged sections and use those areas for vents or louver panels.
Half the back skin is off. It is taking longer and is more of a pain than I imagined. Basically need to cut it out in small sections at a time to avoid damaging hood.
Hood feels so flimsy now.
Will be working all night so I can finish before autocross tomorrow.
Half the back skin is off. It is taking longer and is more of a pain than I imagined. Basically need to cut it out in small sections at a time to avoid damaging hood.
Hood feels so flimsy now.
Will be working all night so I can finish before autocross tomorrow.
09-05-2015, 04:47 PM
#663
Hood Gutting DIY
Skipped autocross to finish this up today.
It is possible to gut hood without damaging it, just need to be careful.
At first I was trying to use a plastic trim removal tool to scrape the glue off and ended up putting small dents in the hood on passenger side.
Need to be more careful and cut out more small sections to get at the glue/sealant easier.
Used this cutting knife to cut the sealant after heating it up with heat gun.
It was more work than expected. My neck and back are pretty sore.
Used Dremel with metal cutting wheels.
This should give you an idea of the amount of metal removed and how many cuts I made.
Acura sure does not skimp on using extra metal in their cars.
Here is the metal and sealant on scale. This does not include all of the metal shavings. Bet it is 7.5 lbs Total.
What it looks like under hood.
Skipped autocross to finish this up today.
It is possible to gut hood without damaging it, just need to be careful.
At first I was trying to use a plastic trim removal tool to scrape the glue off and ended up putting small dents in the hood on passenger side.
Need to be more careful and cut out more small sections to get at the glue/sealant easier.
Used this cutting knife to cut the sealant after heating it up with heat gun.
It was more work than expected. My neck and back are pretty sore.
Used Dremel with metal cutting wheels.
This should give you an idea of the amount of metal removed and how many cuts I made.
Acura sure does not skimp on using extra metal in their cars.
Here is the metal and sealant on scale. This does not include all of the metal shavings. Bet it is 7.5 lbs Total.
What it looks like under hood.
09-06-2015, 06:58 PM
#665
Wavy was the wrong term to use. There were just some dents from using a trim removal tool. I recommend not doing it that way. The driver side turned out perfect. Not a huge deal, just gonna install hood louver panels over damaged section similar to vill0169.
I would recommend against gutting hood unless your CL is a track car. There is risk for damage. The hood is rather flimsy now and bends rather easily. Probably feels similar to what a CF hood feels like. The hood struts are too strong for hood now, and it is harder to close. It closes worse now with more of tin can sound.
You have to be careful and not push or press down on hood. I would be worried a shop might not be careful and damage hood also.
So yes that material is for rigidity, but is not necessary. They could have definitely used much less metal for inner skin.
My Focus hood does not even have inner skin, but on that car I have to be gentle washing car because the panels easily pop in and out.
I would recommend against gutting hood unless your CL is a track car. There is risk for damage. The hood is rather flimsy now and bends rather easily. Probably feels similar to what a CF hood feels like. The hood struts are too strong for hood now, and it is harder to close. It closes worse now with more of tin can sound.
You have to be careful and not push or press down on hood. I would be worried a shop might not be careful and damage hood also.
So yes that material is for rigidity, but is not necessary. They could have definitely used much less metal for inner skin.
My Focus hood does not even have inner skin, but on that car I have to be gentle washing car because the panels easily pop in and out.
09-06-2015, 07:05 PM
#666
Went to autocross today. Sadly, got sick during first work session. Missed first session and part of 2nd session. It was 2nd best layout of the year so rather disappointed. Everyone else got 15 runs, I got 4 runs in succession. Probably overheated tires.
My first run of the day with cold tires and brakes was good enough to get me 3rd place in class with 49.0. My other 3 runs hit cones, but had one run that would have been in 47's. Fastest car of day was lotus on slicks with 46.2.
Could definitely tell difference with the 20 lbs removed since last events. Front felt lighter and turned in better. Felt amazing. No video, sorry.
My first run of the day with cold tires and brakes was good enough to get me 3rd place in class with 49.0. My other 3 runs hit cones, but had one run that would have been in 47's. Fastest car of day was lotus on slicks with 46.2.
Could definitely tell difference with the 20 lbs removed since last events. Front felt lighter and turned in better. Felt amazing. No video, sorry.
09-08-2015, 06:50 AM
#667
Got these in the mail.
Rajca already did DIY here.
https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...nstall-729740/
Seems like that is only place to really mount them. The middle section is probably too round/curved.
Will need to cut out some of the outer skeleton that is remaining to mount these since it is so close to front of hood. Not sure I like that part, hood is flimsy enough.
Not sure if I will leave stock hood latch or cut it off. Then whether to leave that middle metal support in front of radiator or cut it out.
Would removing hood latch affect locking the car(doors and trunk)?
On a side note, I noticed some steering wheel vibration on highway at 65 mph plus. Not sure if it is hood wobbling or if the holes I cut in hood caused turbulence.
Didn't have vibration prior to gutting and cutting hood, so don't think it is wheel balance issue.
Covered holes in hood with tape on way back home. on one section of smooth highway at 70 was getting no vibration so not sure.
Think hood louvers and pins combined would solve issue if it is indeed hood wobbling. Don't hear or see anything driving.
Rajca already did DIY here.
https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...nstall-729740/
Seems like that is only place to really mount them. The middle section is probably too round/curved.
Will need to cut out some of the outer skeleton that is remaining to mount these since it is so close to front of hood. Not sure I like that part, hood is flimsy enough.
Not sure if I will leave stock hood latch or cut it off. Then whether to leave that middle metal support in front of radiator or cut it out.
Would removing hood latch affect locking the car(doors and trunk)?
On a side note, I noticed some steering wheel vibration on highway at 65 mph plus. Not sure if it is hood wobbling or if the holes I cut in hood caused turbulence.
Didn't have vibration prior to gutting and cutting hood, so don't think it is wheel balance issue.
Covered holes in hood with tape on way back home. on one section of smooth highway at 70 was getting no vibration so not sure.
Think hood louvers and pins combined would solve issue if it is indeed hood wobbling. Don't hear or see anything driving.
Last edited by brian6speed; 09-08-2015 at 07:02 AM.
09-09-2015, 07:57 AM
#669
Senior Moderator
Was reading Vill0169's thread again for inspiration and noticed this post.
"What I thought was fuel cut in high speed, high G corners is actually a drop in oil pressure and the ecu is cutting because of it. I have noticed oil burn at my local track and is the only place i get the cutting out so I'm positive thats the cause."
That sounds exactly like my problem. Checked my oil level after getting home from track and it was a little under the minimum line on dip stick. I was only really having the cut at one section of the track also.
It might have been low from me cleaning out catch can or from oil burn, not really sure. Need to monitor these things closer.
Baffled oil pan or Accusump might be answer. Definitely want an oil pressure gauge with warning light.
Think it is good to iron out these issues before doing any serious engine work and blowing a 10k plus motor up.
"What I thought was fuel cut in high speed, high G corners is actually a drop in oil pressure and the ecu is cutting because of it. I have noticed oil burn at my local track and is the only place i get the cutting out so I'm positive thats the cause."
That sounds exactly like my problem. Checked my oil level after getting home from track and it was a little under the minimum line on dip stick. I was only really having the cut at one section of the track also.
It might have been low from me cleaning out catch can or from oil burn, not really sure. Need to monitor these things closer.
Baffled oil pan or Accusump might be answer. Definitely want an oil pressure gauge with warning light.
Think it is good to iron out these issues before doing any serious engine work and blowing a 10k plus motor up.
Maybe get a oil pressure gauge and monitor the oil pressure on hard corners and see if it drops?
09-09-2015, 09:01 AM
#670
Yea will definitely install oil pressure gauge this winter. Maybe go with one where you can set a value at which a warning light goes off so it is easier to spot on track.
Next track day is in a week. Need to change oil, adjust suspension slightly, install hood pins and hood louvers. Then should be ready.
Ordered louver panels, just waiting for them to arrive.
Next track day is in a week. Need to change oil, adjust suspension slightly, install hood pins and hood louvers. Then should be ready.
Ordered louver panels, just waiting for them to arrive.
09-10-2015, 07:22 PM
#671
Hood Venting Brainstorming
Need to place hood louvers to go over damaged hood sections, so can't do exactly what I want.
Did some reading, and need to consider the high pressure area around windshield. Read that you want the vents in front of the high pressure area.
That same high pressure makes me wonder if air is really being sucked out from where windshield cowl was.
Ordered a pair of 19" long x 10" wide louver panels for middle of hood. This was best option since needed panel atleast 13 inches wide. Should arrive tomorrow. Link below.
http://hoodlouvers.com/shop/short-wi...uminum-hiflow/
Ordered 2 small pairs of louver panels for the outside hood area to cover a few small dents. The louvers are 3". One pair has 4 louvers and other has 7. Will decide which to use when have both in hand.
This is somewhat the layout I am planning for. Might move them slightly more forward. The large panel on passenger side will be directly over the IM. Not sure if should just use one panel in middle offset to passenger side or do both for a symmetrical look? Any opinions welcome.
One pair of small panels arrived. Trimmed them down and angled the front to match hood lines. They are bare aluminum, but have a film cover.
Will mount with M4 Button Head Bolts so can be easily removed later to paint(body color most likely).
Started thinking about fender venting and mounted up this template of panel that is 2 11/16" x 12".
Realized after removing cowl there is a big gap with the fender liner removed. Pic below shows gap.
So maybe fender venting isn't necessary? Maybe that being a high pressure area stops the air from venting up?
Need to place hood louvers to go over damaged hood sections, so can't do exactly what I want.
Did some reading, and need to consider the high pressure area around windshield. Read that you want the vents in front of the high pressure area.
That same high pressure makes me wonder if air is really being sucked out from where windshield cowl was.
Ordered a pair of 19" long x 10" wide louver panels for middle of hood. This was best option since needed panel atleast 13 inches wide. Should arrive tomorrow. Link below.
http://hoodlouvers.com/shop/short-wi...uminum-hiflow/
Ordered 2 small pairs of louver panels for the outside hood area to cover a few small dents. The louvers are 3". One pair has 4 louvers and other has 7. Will decide which to use when have both in hand.
This is somewhat the layout I am planning for. Might move them slightly more forward. The large panel on passenger side will be directly over the IM. Not sure if should just use one panel in middle offset to passenger side or do both for a symmetrical look? Any opinions welcome.
One pair of small panels arrived. Trimmed them down and angled the front to match hood lines. They are bare aluminum, but have a film cover.
Will mount with M4 Button Head Bolts so can be easily removed later to paint(body color most likely).
Started thinking about fender venting and mounted up this template of panel that is 2 11/16" x 12".
Realized after removing cowl there is a big gap with the fender liner removed. Pic below shows gap.
So maybe fender venting isn't necessary? Maybe that being a high pressure area stops the air from venting up?
Last edited by brian6speed; 09-10-2015 at 07:30 PM.
09-10-2015, 09:22 PM
#675
Hehe. Would definitely help out local ppl. I work slow though, would have to charge a fortune.
Was thinking earlier that even if someone offered me 50k for my car, I would still turn them down.
Not sure if I will ever gut another car again. Getting old and this work is brutal on my neck, back, and hands.
Was thinking earlier that even if someone offered me 50k for my car, I would still turn them down.
Not sure if I will ever gut another car again. Getting old and this work is brutal on my neck, back, and hands.
Last edited by brian6speed; 09-10-2015 at 09:28 PM.
09-10-2015, 09:29 PM
#676
On the website I ordered the louver panels from it states that placing panels closer to front of hood helps to greatly increase airflow through the radiator and extract high temp heat. Mount towards rear of hood to extract heat from engine bay.
So maybe mounting in the middle it can do both. Need to read my Aerodynamics book more.
So maybe mounting in the middle it can do both. Need to read my Aerodynamics book more.
09-12-2015, 12:26 AM
#680
Would prefer the front to be by front header/fans. Not really concerned with rear header more just flow from radiator and some heat extraction.
Could return these panels and exchange for 2 13" x 21" panels. It would just not cover one ding, but they would fit hood better.
Cut out templates and pics below. Are these better? Don't really want to go any bigger.
