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Posting some thoughts from this thread. I'm just doing some thinking about what I'd like to do with the exhaust when the time comes. I really like how quiet the exhaust is stock. I don't mind a little louder but nothing obnoxious like the Hondas I hear on my streets. I'd like a sound like my old
but I can't recall what kind of muffler I had there That was a 2.4L straight 6 and this is a 3.2L V6 so it should be possible.
Originally Posted by brian6speed
You are wrong just like you were wrong about moonroof tubes thread. You say exhaust, but don't say what you mean by exhaust. Headers are part of the exhaust. Do you mean a cat - back with Oem cat still on?
You can easily gain 60 plus hp just with breather mods. Doing either intake side or exhaust side while ignoring the other would be stupid. It is one component of a system. Just slapping a bolt on Catback or axle back on an otherwise stock car will not show true potential because of other limiting factors.
Originally Posted by CLassy02
Stock mufflers get real raspy though. I actually have Accord exhaust. It's the exact same part number. However I do not know what the part number is.
I'm not sure about the cat itself but the piping from the cat to the split seems easily big enough for a 3.2L NA engine. The Y split and piping to the mufflers look like a major impediment to flow. The piping is tiny. I didn't measure but it looks to be less than 2" diameter.
The Accord. The CL is based on the Accord right? Which one? I see 2.25 and 2.5 Y back systems for V6 Accords on ebay for cheap. The setup uses bullet style mufflers which probably sound awful. I wouldn't use the mufflers but I'd take the piping and buy my own mufflers. I think that would be cheaper and easier than buying mandrel bends and having a shop put a system together.
About the cat. My car has 140xxx miles so my cat is probably partially clogged. When the time comes to do an exhaust I think I'd just buy a slip fit 2.25 or 2.5 cat and keep the middle pipe or have a shop do a 2.5 pipe. It looks like basically a straight run from the resonator. The pipe thats on there looks in good shape so I'd probably keep it. It's big enough for this car. I'd definitely keep the resonator. I've had turbo V6 cars w/ 3" exhaust and no resonator. The drone gets annoying even with the extra muffling that a turbocharger gives.
Comments are welcome but I'm really looking for an answer on the Accord question.
Sorry about posting the vid. I only meant to post a link to the vid to show the sound I'm after. An edit post option would be nice. Maybe there is one and I'm just not seeing it.
If you're sticking with just basic bolt on mods then 2.5" exhaust would be fine. Stock piping is 2.25" in that middle section. The part after the Y isn't really impeding since combined it's probably equal or bigger than the midpipe.
My old CL6 with most bolt ons I had a 2.5" midpipe with 18" magnaflow resonator and stock cans. Sounded nice. I'd probably go with a bigger resonator if I could have gone back.
A catback for the accord would definitely bolt up or require very little modification to work.
If you're sticking with just basic bolt on mods then 2.5" exhaust would be fine. Stock piping is 2.25" in that middle section. The part after the Y isn't really impeding since combined it's probably equal or bigger than the midpipe.
My old CL6 with most bolt ons I had a 2.5" midpipe with 18" magnaflow resonator and stock cans. Sounded nice. I'd probably go with a bigger resonator if I could have gone back.
A catback for the accord would definitely bolt up or require very little modification to work.
Yes but which year Accord... 98-03? No doubt 2.5 is fine. It's probably overkill. I know LSx guys and monster turbo guys who don't consider 2.5 to be restrictive. Its an age old debate
The exhaust layout on this car looks really good... because of the FWD I suppose. I'm used to cars with too many bends around obstructions.
Check these guys out Tubing Kits - Acura - 99-03 Acura TL - TruBendz Technology talked to them on the phone, they are willing to make the system pretty much however you want it. This is the cheapest way I've found to build a cat back.
Thats a good suggestion. In Florida? I think I saw their site but I didn't see anything but a slip fit full catback piping kit. If they'd sell just the Y back pipes that would be great. May be better to buy the whole thing at $170. Flanges would be great but slip fit and clamps will do.
I saw a vid of a CLS doing a nitrous spray and noticed the exhaust sounded better than anything I've heard yet.
The only reason I have Accord exhaust is because the HKS Super Drager is very very very difficult to find these days. I've had it for several years now. It did require bending it just a hair to get the bolts to line up for the flanges, maybe an inch.
I would use the hole kit the mandrel bends are worth it!! Once its clapped together and lined up drop the hole system, weld the joints and loose the clamps. Plus you can run any cat, resonator & muffler you want or lack there of
Personally I plan on getting the 3" dual with 3" high flow cat, longest 3" resonator I can find and a single Dynomax VT muffler where the mid is now then have them reduce to 2.5" at the Y with tips on the end. Also plan on having the J-pipe extended with and merged to 3". That's less then $700 for the header back with shipping
Agreed, mandrels bends are best. Strict emissions tests in Houston so a cat has to be there. One day a year anyway
Definitely want mufflers and a resonator.
Does the 03 CL cat use an o2 sensor? I know theres one before the flex but I think I recall seeing one on the cat too. I can check tomorrow.
yes primary O2 before the cat is what the ecm uses for air/fuel. Secondary O2 behind/on the cat is only to check if the cat is working properly. O2 defouler/extension and you'll get no check engine light if you use an aftermarket cat.
Somebody stop me! I need to get control of this before it reaches the obsession stage
I ordered a 2.5 resonator and a 2.5 obd2 cat. Now I just have to decide on mufflers. I'll either order the trubendz TL piping or buy some 2.5 mandrel bends. The bends from mandrelbends.com are pricey so it may be cheaper to buy the trubendz kit. I think I might use lap joint clamps instead of u bolt clamps or flanges.
I would use the hole kit the mandrel bends are worth it!! Once its clapped together and lined up drop the hole system, weld the joints and loose the clamps. Plus you can run any cat, resonator & muffler you want or lack there of
Personally I plan on getting the 3" dual with 3" high flow cat, longest 3" resonator I can find and a single Dynomax VT muffler where the mid is now then have them reduce to 2.5" at the Y with tips on the end. Also plan on having the J-pipe extended with and merged to 3". That's less then $700 for the header back with shipping
3" piping? I take it you plan on a turbo or supercharger.
I thought the j pipe was to keep equal length and even out the pulses? I think I'll just get the trubendz kit and use what I need. Once I have the cat. resonator and piping in place I can see how much room I have for mufflers and decide which ones to go with. I'm liking the remus dual tip or n1 but I'd go with OBX if I knew what exactly this guy bought.
You do not need a supercharger or turbo for 3" to be worthwhile and provide gains. You don't even need to up displacement from 3.2 or get a tune. I like transitions that go from smaller size to larger and increase air velocity. Use a 2.5" to 3" transition before 3" piping.
You do not need a supercharger or turbo for 3" to be worthwhile and provide gains. You don't even need to up displacement from 3.2 or get a tune. I like transitions that go from smaller size to larger and increase air velocity. Use a 2.5" to 3" transition before 3" piping.
You need full bolt-ons to take full advantage.
Sorry Brian but you don't increase air velocity by going from a smaller pipe to a larger pipe. You actually decrease velocity.
We'll just have to disagree that there is any gain to be had from a 3" exhaust on a NA 3.2 engine regardless of bolt-ons.
Sorry Brian but you don't increase air velocity by going from a smaller pipe to a larger pipe. You actually decrease velocity.
We'll just have to disagree that there is any gain to be had from a 3" exhaust on a NA 3.2 engine regardless of bolt-ons.
Lol. I guess King Motorsports knows nothing about exhaust building and air velocity then.
I guess you disagree with dyno results also. 3" being worthwhile has been known for many many years now. Welcome to forum. Do less posting and more reading.
Last edited by brian6speed; 03-01-2015 at 03:57 PM.
Lol. I guess King Motorsports knows nothing about exhaust building and air velocity then.
I guess you disagree with dyno results also. 3" being worthwhile has been known for many many years now. Welcome to forum. Do less posting and more reading.
Brian... I've never heard of King Motorsports but if they agree with you then I guess they don't know much about how exhaust size affects an engine. I suspect that they don't agree with you. This is basic physics. What happens when you put a sprayer on a garden hose or a blow gun on the end of your compressor hose? Velocity increases. Is it so difficult to understand? Blow through a straw and then blow through a piece of 2" plumbing pipe.
The only important point is that 3" exhaust is overkill on a 3.2L V6. It isn't going to bother me if you choose not to believe that.
Why don't you do us both a favor Brian and stay off my threads. You obviously don't know nearly as much as you think you do and I don't want any advice from you.
Sure it's overkill on a bone stock motor but with supporting mods to go with it, the gains are more than noticeable..
K series/H series guys have been making great power with 3" exhausts, with proof btw for a while now.. its nothing new, so what makes you think it's overkill on a bigger motor?
There's a lot more to exhaust tuning then basic physics..
3" piping? I take it you plan on a turbo or supercharger.
I thought the j pipe was to keep equal length and even out the pulses? I think I'll just get the trubendz kit and use what I need. Once I have the cat. resonator and piping in place I can see how much room I have for mufflers and decide which ones to go with. I'm liking the remus dual tip or n1 but I'd go with OBX if I knew what exactly this guy bought. Acura Legend OBX Exhaus system (X piping) v6 3.2 - YouTube
Mike I'm running a 3.5 with fully worked heads with a 3" CAI, pulleys, & header its running close to Boostedorbusted with CT/SC. From the math I've done (limiting factors being insufficient cam data) the ideal pipe size is between 2.75" and 3" for a J32 or J35. The trouble with most generic online calculators is the math is from domestic V8's that have a considerably lower VE the our Honda engines run.
Mike I'm running a 3.5 with fully worked heads with a 3" CAI, pulleys, & header its running close to Boostedorbusted with CT/SC. From the math I've done (limiting factors being insufficient cam data) the ideal pipe size is between 2.75" and 3" for a J32 or J35. The trouble with most generic online calculators is the math is from domestic V8's that have a considerably lower VE the our Honda engines run.
I didn't use an online calc but VE is a valid point. If someone with boltons has dyno sheets from a 2.5" exhaust compared to 3" exhaust that shows even a 10% gain I'll be surprised. It still may not matter depending on the torque curve but I'm not going to deny proof.
I'm not here to reinvent the wheel or tell anybody they're doing it wrong. I'm not going to get on the bigger is better bandwagon though. I've seen too many L24s-L28s, VG30s, and LSx's making 300 to 500hp with 2.5" exhausts to run out and buy a 3" exhaust.
@teh CL: I'm not an exhaust expert but yes exhaust tuning isall physics. When a race engine is built the exhaust begins in the head... valve size and cam lift & duration and exhaust ports and everything there on back is pure physics. That's angels dancing on the head of a pin talk though. None of us are building an F1 car. The only reason physics came up is because someone said that transitioning from smaller pipe to larger pipe increases velocity. Come on
If it's real it's fine. It isn't quite 10% but it's a lot. If its true That whole thread was kind of odd and so was the one that was linked. Good to know I'm not the only one who doubts anyway.
Brian... I've never heard of King Motorsports but if they agree with you then I guess they don't know much about how exhaust size affects an engine. I suspect that they don't agree with you. This is basic physics. What happens when you put a sprayer on a garden hose or a blow gun on the end of your compressor hose? Velocity increases. Is it so difficult to understand? Blow through a straw and then blow through a piece of 2" plumbing pipe.
The only important point is that 3" exhaust is overkill on a 3.2L V6. It isn't going to bother me if you choose not to believe that.
Why don't you do us both a favor Brian and stay off my threads. You obviously don't know nearly as much as you think you do and I don't want any advice from you.
Haha thanks for the laugh. I don't consider it your thread when you start 20 in 1 week. Make 1 build thread and stick to it then. I can post in any thread I want to. Ppl get so angry when you try and clear up misinformation.
The fact you have not heard of King Motorsports shows you are a honda noob.
Trust me I'd rather not post and help someone like you out. If you know so much why are you asking so many questions?
Do some research on exhaust velocity, transitions, megaphones, etc.
King Motorsports agrees with me, built my exhaust, and did before and after dyno to prove gains.
What proof do you have?
Amazes me that someone new to forum thinks they know more about car than anyone else.
I am no expert, but I for sure know more than you do.
if there is one thing i have learned in life. you cannot be too certain about anything. you never know what you may find out tomorrow. sure having very few posts lends very little credibility. but they could be a wizard making their first post to help all us know it alls out. :-) im not saying this is the case here but, just some food for thought
Haha thanks for the laugh. I don't consider it your thread when you start 20 in 1 week. Make 1 build thread and stick to it then. I can post in any thread I want to. Ppl get so angry when you try and clear up misinformation.
The fact you have not heard of King Motorsports shows you are a honda noob.
Trust me I'd rather not post and help someone like you out. If you know so much why are you asking so many questions?
Do some research on exhaust velocity, transitions, megaphones, etc.
King Motorsports agrees with me, built my exhaust, and did before and after dyno to prove gains.
What proof do you have?
Amazes me that someone new to forum thinks they know more about car than anyone else.
I am no expert, but I for sure know more than you do.
Clear up misinformation? 20 threads a day?
I think I've mentioned 3 times that I'm new to FWD... excellent observation skills there Brian.
I've got 8 threads and I've been here a few weeks... oops.
You said that transitioning to a larger tube increases velocity... oops.
You told someone that they had a stock size pulley when he had the new belts that UR sent with the pulley... oops
You continue to try to "help" me out... oops.
You seem to feel threatened by me. Why?
Thanks for the warm welcome but I'd rather not have your help
I just refer to the CLS FAQ. 1-2hp increase from CAT back exhaust... 30HP just from headers tells you that the exhaust is already pretty free flowing imho...
The FAQ is 10 years old. The power some J engines can make now, 3" is best. If the car is relatively stock, it's a different story.
While some new J might get a boost, a 3.2 CL-S with bolt on really isn't one of them and imho money is best spent elsewhere. FAQ is old but it's still relatively accurate for an engine that is also 10+ years old
Haha thanks for the laugh. I don't consider it your thread when you start 20 in 1 week. Make 1 build thread and stick to it then. I can post in any thread I want to. Ppl get so angry when you try and clear up misinformation.
The fact you have not heard of King Motorsports shows you are a honda noob.
Trust me I'd rather not post and help someone like you out. If you know so much why are you asking so many questions?
Do some research on exhaust velocity, transitions, megaphones, etc.
King Motorsports agrees with me, built my exhaust, and did before and after dyno to prove gains.
What proof do you have?
Amazes me that someone new to forum thinks they know more about car than anyone else.
I am no expert, but I for sure know more than you do.
Originally Posted by mike88se
Clear up misinformation? 20 threads a day?
I think I've mentioned 3 times that I'm new to FWD... excellent observation skills there Brian.
I've got 8 threads and I've been here a few weeks... oops.
You said that transitioning to a larger tube increases velocity... oops.
You told someone that they had a stock size pulley when he had the new belts that UR sent with the pulley... oops
You continue to try to "help" me out... oops.
You seem to feel threatened by me. Why?
Thanks for the warm welcome but I'd rather not have your help
I apologize for the harsh words. You're certainly correct that you can post wherever you want. You're welcome to post in my threads. If we disagree... we disagree.
The mufflers. They are very good at muffling I'm (just) guessing they don't flow very well. I have everything lined up and ordered except mufflers. I'd love to have the flow of a Dynomax Ultraflo but I know from experience that they are loud even with the extra muffling effects of a turbo. I'm wondering if a 3" Thrush/Walker turbo style muffler would make up some of the difference lost by not going with a a straight through muffler. Adding 2.5 to 3" adapters is really more complicated than I wanted this to be. I'm wondering if maybe an extra resonator and straight through 2.5" mufflers might be better.
I definitely want to stay away from chambered mufflers. The stock mufflers are 17" long so there's room to play with. I'm not trying to make this rocket science... I just can't afford to experiment with finding the perfect muffler.
Any thoughts?
At least rocket science has an answer. You seem so indecisive it's actually getting funny. You cannot afford to experiment with mufflers, yet you post in another thread you want a wider header setup than what is available on the market. That is mucho dinaro pal... I dunno what you think you know, cause clearly you cannot make up your mind.
At least rocket science has an answer. You seem so indecisive it's actually getting funny. You cannot afford to experiment with mufflers, yet you post in another thread you want a wider header setup than what is available on the market. That is mucho dinaro pal... I dunno what you think you know, cause clearly you cannot make up your mind.
Mostly thinking out loud here... virtually I only want to do this once and I want the best bang for the buck.
I said I wanted a wider header? I don't think so. I questioned whether these were equal length headers. I think I mentioned the j pipe and how it seems screwy to reverse the direction of the exhaust but I'm guessing that there is some reason for that. Either there is something in the way or it evens out the exhaust pulses.
So are you saying everybody knows the limits or that nobody questions the status quo and tries anything new here except the guy with the infatuation/obsession?
That would make for a pretty dull forum.
Do you know the difference between the three muffler types? If you do then maybe you can share your thoughts.
If not then that's okay too. If you've actually read my posts and you question what I know about cars then I can't help but question what you know. I'm no car god but I've actually built a 400hp engine... with a 2.5" exhaust I even know how to read a compressor map and match it to RPM and VE
If you want bang for your buck. Buy the headers for 400 or so... And get around 30 hp. It is not peak hp, The entire power band shifts up. The whole car is faster in every single way. You cannot even come close to the power it will bring for the money you spend. And the j pipe is not 2.5 inches. So it doesn't really matter if the rest of the exhaust is 2.5" cause the cat is also not 2.5".
You made this thread to debate the exhaust set up. I love a good debate :-)
And when excelerate mentioned the tanabe, which is a proven set up for our cars. You rebutle with, I have got that under control.
Then why did you make this thread?
As for the quieter the muffler the less hp. I would disagree. If you drill a hole in a muffler it gets louder and you lose power... Some mufflers are straight through and others have bends and curves inside them. To a slight degree you may be correct on the extreme sides. But as a general rule of thumb the loudness has not much to do with mufflers as much as it has to do with the cat, the mid muffler and the tubing size and wall thickness of every part of the exhaust.
I had a 2.5" b pipe on my car last year, it was thicker walled than stock, it was .25" bigger in diameter, it still had a mid muffler. And it was excruciatingly loud. Probably cause I have the hfc but still it proves the mufflers are just one of many aspects to loudness and power gains.
you can also make your set up so wide you begin to lose overall power because there is not enough back pressure. So there is a balanced hat needs to be maintained
I appreciate it but I'm not looking for a defender. If people disagree I'm okay with that. I'll try to address your questions. ExcelerateRep was advertising, not helping. Contradictions? Ok... so if I'm on the wrong track with eliminating the tiny piping after the Y then why is everybody so adamant about going all the way up to 3" exhausts? I've already given my theory on why exhaust upgrades don't help much. The layout of the exhaust is great already. Theres no differential or half axles or low gas tank that the exhaust has to be routed around and over and under. Its a straight shot from the downpipe to the mufflers. What could be better.
As for quieter mufflers not being more restrictive... we're going to have to agree to disagree on that. The only exception that comes to mind is Flowmaster. They are loud and don't flow well. And they sound obnoxious even on Mustangs
When you say wide do you mean larger diameter? You probably know that the back pressure theory is an old debate. Some very experienced and knowledgeable people on either side. I don't think you lose power... maybe there are street driveability issues but no power loss. If there was power loss then all those dragsters and funny cars wouldn't be running open headers.
Scavenging and pulse control are what matters in an exhaust.
If it helps to understand I haven't been on a car forum in over ten years. The car had almost zero aftermarket support other than a set of headers made by a company called Pacesetter. They were made for NA cars and they were a crappy product and 95% of the board members drove turbocharged cars anyway. Everything was adapted from products made for other cars or completely fabricated by the owners. That gives you a completely different attitude about modifying cars than people who own cars with tons of aftermarket support. You learn to experiment and think outside the box.
Okay, back to my car. I have the headers. I have a resonator and cat. The exhaust piping is on the way. I'll install the headers when the piping gets here. And after I have my truck problems sorted out. I'll decide on mufflers later. I have an underdrive pulley but I probably won't install that until I do the tbelt and replace the alt. I have the Injen intake and I'll eventually install that just to see what it does. As someone else mentioned, this car has an excellent intake from the factory so I don't expect much except some sound.
That's as far as I'm going with power adders. Drag racing bores me so I don't need a lot of power. This car will be fun for cruising through the back roads of the Texas hill country.
I appreciate the help Ive gotten here. Especially the guys who ordered the SSautochrome headers and the guys helped out with the headlight bulbs.
arggg.. still screwing around trying to find whats wrong with my truck. I have everything but mufflers now. I found a Honda replacement flange to weld onto the inlet of the cat. Unfortunately it was stock size and had a piece of 1.5" pipe welded on. I cut the pipe off and now I'm trying to get the flange as close as possible to 2.5". Cutting a 2.5" round hole w/ a sawzall isn't easy. Its not going to be pretty but it'll work
I have some good burrs left from my z31 build so I'll try those. My die grinder is missing tho I think I finally got my truck problems sorted out so now I can get back to the car. Looking forward to getting the UR pulley on and the headers and exhaust on. Still lovin this car
Pardon, do you have any pictures or comparisons to stock? Perhaps also a video of what it would sound like at higher RPMs?
I'm interested, but unsure of exhausts.
02-15-2015, 07:35 PM
That was a 2.4L straight 6 and this is a 3.2L V6 so it should be possible.
I'm not sure about the cat itself but the piping from the cat to the split seems easily big enough for a 3.2L NA engine. The Y split and piping to the mufflers look like a major impediment to flow. The piping is tiny. I didn't measure but it looks to be less than 2" diameter. 
I think I finally got my truck problems sorted out so now I can get back to the car. Looking forward to getting the UR pulley on and the headers and exhaust on. Still lovin this car
