disgruntlednut

So I went out to start my car this afternoon and crank crank crank... no start. I don't even have to check anything else, I know what it is. Same thing happened last week. Its 102 degrees outside and the damned fuel relay (also called main relay or PGM-FI relay) is garbage. The part number used by both Acura and Honda for the relay is 39400-S82-A01 and they've recently replaced it with 39400-S84-003.

Symptoms: Car cranks, everything electrical works fine but won't start. Happens more frequently when its hotter outside. If you leave your car alone for 15-20 minutes and try again and it starts fine, you can bet your pants you need a new fuel relay.

Look for: When you turn your car to the "ON" position, listen for the buzz noise from the fuel pump. If you don't hear it when it isn't starting, listen for it again 15-20 minutes later.

The relay is located under the dash by the steering column. To remove it you'll have to remove the bracket itself. 10mm socket. Don't bother trying to take the relay off the bracket while you're staring at it upside down, you'll just be wasting your time fighting with it.

My sister's 2000 Honda Accord had the exact same problem last year and guess what... it had the exact same garbage relay.

This whole situation just disgusts me. I know others have had this same problem and I really think Honda/Acura needs to recall the faulty relays. Who else joins this list?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I think your just mad. There have been only a handful(less then 5) members I can recall that have had a fuel pump relay problem.

But good info anyway.

disgruntlednut

There are quite a few people that have listed problems with the relay, 3 or 4 others on the first page of "problems and fixes" and numerous others previously. Last year I had this same problem with a Honda Accord and the guy at the parts department at the dealer told me it was a common problem too. Acuras got the same relays. They used a cheap solder that cracks and breaks when it gets hot outside, thats why you'll see alot more people post about the fuel relay problem in the summer and virtually no one in the winter.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I live in south FL Never had a problem on 3 CL's. I have friends with accords & no problems either.

disgruntlednut

Re-soldered the original relay and returned the one I bought. Its been 100+ for nearly 2 weeks and haven't had a problem since.

Called the service department at the local Acura dealer and asked 'em what they thought and he insisted that it has to be the fuel pump. Strongly suggested that I bring the car in, pay 100 bucks for him to "diagnose" the problem.

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

good call...same exact repair I just did about a month ago... texas heat FTL...mine is still working great!

feline

Do you by chance have pic's of what exactly you soldered? Did you take the relay apart?

My '01 CLs hasn't started for a whole day. Saw your post and then went under the dash and gave the relay a couple of hits while someone else turned on the car. Started like new so I know it is the relay.

Thanks in advance!

disgruntlednut

No, unfortunately I didn't think of taking any pictures of the relay... Once you get the two pieces separated, you'll see the green circuit board with all the solder points on it. Take a good long look at each of them from all around. You should be able to see a hairline crack in atleast one point. I didn't add any new soldier, just melted the soldier that was on there so it would re-seat properly. I think i re-soldered 4 or 5 points (anything that looked suspicious lol)

feline

Ok, that is what I will do, thanks for the info, you save me abt $60 in parts and a priceless amount of $$ in time by not having to take it into the shop.

disgruntlednut

Ah, the beauty of Acurazine...

PANAMARED

just had the same issue with relay, THANKS ACURAZINE!!! you make life easier... i have been dealing with this problem for almost two years now... going to take out relay now, will let you know results.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

this solved my starting problem because my fuel pump wasnt turning over. $40 and i was set.

stonematrix

Thank God i saw that. I will but that stupid relay. I Live in Puerto Rico and some time my car turn off itself running and I have to wait like 2-3 minutes to start again. Acura dealer never saw that problem before, neither figure it out the 3rd time I went to service. It has to be the relay.

MarcPearl

I am experiencing a no-start condition, but it is cold in Iowa this time of the year. Maybe the heat from the environmental controls is generating enough heat to induce the problem. I removed the relay by alternately prying the retaining tabs on the longest sides with my thumbnail and was able to remove the relay circuit board without having to unscrew the whole assembly. On the bench, everything seemed to work okay, with resistance of 0.4 ohms on the relay contacts when the relays actuated. One relay has a label that says 4 volts which gets its power across a 42 ohm, 3 watt resistor. The current drawn by the relay coil was about 90 milliamps.

I did not see any weak solder joints but reflowed the solder on all circuit board connections, including where the 7 spade connectors are soldered to the board.

When I reassembled it and put back in the car, she started okay, but my victory was cut short when I tried to start her up again after a brief trip.

I constructed a 5 foot extension for the wiring harness so that I can bring the relay up out from under the steering column to where I can conveniently hook up a voltmeter and catch the problem red-handed. It can either be that the ignition is not being energized by one relay, or that the fuel pump is not being energized by the other relay. I will check for 12 volts with respect to battery minus (ground) on both switched relay contacts and see if the 12 volts is present or not.

If the fuel pump is not getting 12 volts, then the engine is fuel starved. If the ignition is not getting 12 volts, then the ignitors will not generate spark, and maybe the cylinders are getting flooded?

Acura wants $77 for a replacement relay, but from what I have seen on the bench test, this one works fine. If I can catch it in the act of malfunctioning, then I will buy an aftermarket one on the internet for $25-30. I hope it is this relay, otherwise, I am going to have to do some more troubleshooting.
Regards.

MarcPearl

I caught the car doing it again and it was not the relay. The ECU was not grounding pin 8 on the relay, so there was no current flow through the 4 volt relay to energize the fuel pump. I shorted pins 7 and 5 to energize the fuel pump and then cranked, but the car did not want to start. I now suspect that the ECU is not seeing the engine RPM increase upon attempted start and is therefore not grounding pin 8 and not even trying to start. I will have to investigate the engine RPM input to the ECU and do some more troubleshooting.
Regards.

MarcPearl

Had my 100K oil change. Put in 5W-30 since its been down below zero here. I was reading how Jiffy Lube doesn't reset the change oil/check engine countdown timer. In going through the owner's manual, I realized the 2000 Acura 3.2 TL doesn't have that feature. What I also found was that there is a light on the dashboard that indicates when the immobilizer is set and the car will not start.

Sure enough, when the car will not start and the fuel relay is not energized due to lack of ECU ground, the immobilizer light is flashing. It seems that either from wear and tear on the key or some other reason, the car is behaving as if my key is the wrong one and starts blinking the immobilizer light and will refuse to start the car. I have tried flipping the key over and then it seems to work. The grey valet key is the one I use primarily. The black key seems to always work. I do not know if my car is reading some chip embedded in the key or if it is somehow reading the tolerances on the key cut and since the key is so worn that it is rejecting it. If it is reading the chip, then there must be a better radio signal when the key is flipped to one side versus the other.

I wonder if anybody who is having hard starting problems noticed or is explicitly checking their immobilizer indicator light on the dashboard when the car seemingly won't start, thinking that the main relay is bad.

Regards,
Marc

MarcPearl

Wow, I just realized that the day before I started having trouble with hard starting, I had joined a 24 hour gym that had given me a key fob to open the gym entrance door. I had placed the fob on the same keyring as my grey valet key. The key fob was interfering with the transponder in the key head. I moved the fob to another key ring and the problem is gone. This is also known as the Empire State Building effect, where people within a 4 block radius of the building can't start their cars since the top of the building has very powerful radio transmitter antennas that block their key transponder and prevents the car from starting.

Regards,
Marc

disgruntlednut

LOL thats crazy. Glad you finally got it figured out.

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

....thats crazy... happy ur ride is starting!

PS...mine is still starting up good

rp_guy

yeah, the key has something like an RFID chip in it. you can use a blank key and start the car if you put a good key near the column.
Good troubleshooting though!

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

thats cool...have to try that...

When I test drove a vette... you just had the key in your pocket and pushed a start button...that was really sweet...but alas, I am showin' my age....LOL

John Petrolo

Thanks to disgruntlednut and all the others! With your help we diagnosed our problems with our 2001 CL. It was turning over but it wouldn't start. All electronics were working. No whining noise when we turned the key. Just like you all said. We bought a new fuel pump relay and John put it in today. It was quite a struggle until he figured out where the bracket was. Then it was a problem putting it back in! But, he got it done. The part we replaced lasted quite a long time. I wonder if it is because it was a fuel pump relay that was made in the USA by Siemens. part # VRM-0022. We got the the car used about nine years ago and this is the first time we had a problem. Thanks, again. I'm glad John found this site. John's wife.

mschmuff

So was the bad part# VRM-0022 or is that the new part number that actually works???

Frank109

wow i thought i was the only one with this problem. im gona have my fuel relay checked. symptoms are exactly as what you all said. hope this is the fix!

geocom2010

I'm experiencing the same problem. Had the same problem last summer. It's driving me crazy.

tommyt1777

I wish I saw this before I bought a starter. It was turning over and I still bought the damn thing. Oh well. Obviously, it didn't fix the problem.
I'm going to replace the relay this weekend. I will let you guys know if it fixed it.

Scottman111

Try to re-solder before you replace, might save you some money. All I (and other members) did was remelt the solder that was already on there and it works perfect now. So easy it's stupid.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

^ Werd

You could also google "honda main relay fix" and find some DIYs. Honda has had this problem with the main relays since the 80s. I dont see them ever fixing it.

brandiwine09

okay, since you know alot about the fuel pump relay.. I have a '01 cl-s, and i have had problems before with it bogging down when first started everyonce in a while, and now will just turn over, won't crank. Just read your post and went to see if the fuel pump would come on, and i don't hear it.. do you think its the relay?

PANAMARED

try wiring your fuel pump (under carpet in trink) direct from your battery (check where the positive goes by testing ground connectivity) just to make sure... taht is how I confirmed

DRO916

I just changed mine out, and my car still isn't starting. It just keeps clicking. Hate this!!

And to those of you wondering about installation, it's pretty easy, no bolts or anything needed, just look under the dash in the foot well and look for the relay with a brown connector. Slide the relay up, then unhook the connector and swap. Slide the new relay back down and you're done.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

If your car is clicking, check the battery. If its not the battery, test the starter.

DRO916

Yep, was the relay and battery combo. Now my car is back to normal....thank geebus it wasn't the starter...

coreyjensen83

Ok so this is pretty ghetto but it has worked great for a month now. I took the relay out of it's case and grabbed it with tongs and held it away from the flame on the stove to heat up the old soldering. popped it back in and it's worked perfect since. i did this after i bought a replacement just in case it messed up the original. so far i think i wasted my money on the new one.

coreyjensen83

Far from mad! just saved me so much stress and money! This is a huge problem with these relays.

Scottman111

Ghetto indeed

disgruntlednut

Agreed, that's definitely a little ghetto, but if your car starts when you want it to, who cares. Next time though, even if its a $10 soldering iron from harbor freight... invest in one

When I fixed mine, I had bought a replacement just in case. But 3 years later, it's still doing what it's supposed to.

01Cl_Type-S

Awesome thread, save my a$$ today! I went out and it did not start. When ever I have a problem acurazine is my owners manual =] Did a quick search and here i am at this thread. pulled out my relay I don't have a soldering iron and was in a hurry for an appointment so I tried the "ghetto" fix lol and it worked! thanks to everyone who posted and especially disgruntlednut !

WGH2

Well, I couldn't find the dog-gone thing, so I had it towed to dealership and they agreed it was the main(fuel pump) relay They had to get out the diagram and found it located way up in the dash. Fortunately able to use relay I already had (ordered).
I am glad I let them do install

daygoballer00

can you please tell me where is this reply located at?