1Louder

^ I'll look into that - thanks!

JT4

Good Luck!!

neil0311

The first year of depreciation is the largest, so my advice would be go to arbitration or court if you're just so unable to drive the vehicle that you would consider throwing away thousands of dollars.

Personally, I would not throw thousands down a rathole because the transmission is a little rough sometimes.

JT4

I agree with you, but I wasn't talking "Thousands of dollars"..

I gave 1Louder an example of someone I know that lost $500 by selling his lease to Carmax.

I would hate to lose $500 on something like this, but IMO $500 is a small price to pay to be able to walk away from a real crappy situation with Acura and remove that stress from your life.

But to each his own..

zmetman

The transmission issue is really no surprise. This is a 9 spd ZF transmission. There have been multiple reports of problems with the Jeep, RR Evoque and now the TLX. I just hope it doesn't get worse. I've only experienced an issue when slowing down. I felt like I was rear ended but it was just a rough shift!

Mike_TX

The only negative I've personally experienced with Carmax is that they tend to discount the price they quote you by the amount of the sales tax on the car.

When I challenged them on this, they said they figure that if you trade at a dealer instead of letting them buy it, you would get a sales tax advantage on the new car, since tax is charged on the difference between the new car and the car being traded. They somehow figure that levels the playing field.

To me that's total BS, since they should give you a price to buy your car without trying to guess what you are going to do with the money OR the car. In fact, it's none of their friggin business what you do!

Other than this, I think they're usually pretty fair on what they offer, as long as it's something they want.

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KeithL

I have found the same thing. Years ago they were more aggressive, but now they try to price themselves so that they are on par with what say a dealer may offer on trade and a little more to help offset the tax disadvantage, but they used to offer some real aggressive deals. I had sold them 2 cars becasuedealers would not come close to their numbers. Lately dealers are offering about same as Carmax and then if you bring them the carmax number they generally match it.

Vlke

Just had the road test with the field rep. Tried to reproduce the problem in sports+ but the rep said he won't consider it because manual shifting is different from the way the computer shifts. The car will not shift to gear 3 at 3000-3500rpm. He acknowledged the 2016 TLX have different transmissions and software and we should only compare 2015 with 2015. He won't replace the transmission because it'll be another 2015 transmission and all 2015 transmission have that slight jerk from gear 2-3...it's a characteristic of the transmission.

He took my car inside to check the parameters to see if it falls within the baseline. If not he'll make some tweeks to get it there but that's about it.

I'm so frustrated and tired of this. Never thought a company like Acura will be this irresponsible.

neil0311

That's not correct. Mine is at the dealer for the 2-3 gear rough shifts and the 2015 AWD loaner that I have is flawless. The shifts are smooth and in 4 days that I've had it, not a single rough shift.

Not all 2015s have the issues.

Vlke

That's what I tried to tell the rep but it was not acknowledged...

Vlke

So the field rep said he did a relearned and made sure it was done properly. We went for another test drive and the car seem to shift much better. Felt a slight bump ones out of roughly 10 times. He told me the car is learning right now and later on I might feel the shift again but there's nothing else he can do and if it happens again and I'll have to speak with my ACR. I asked him about the transmission swap and how others have got their transmission replaced but response was every situation is different and perhaps the other cases had other issues such as slipping or harsher shifts.

1Louder

Your experience seems identical to mine. Not to bum you out but I had the relearn done twice. First one lasted 2 weeks, the second only lasted a few days. I also got the same answer when I asked my ACR about why some people are getting replacements and not me. He simply said, "I cannot comment on other people's files".

Vlke

Yah I know.. I'm already expecting the harsh shifts to come back. Even when I was driving home I noticed a little bit already but it was not as bad as before. I don't know what else to do other than complainting to the ACR when it happens again.

1Louder

I think the official end to this story is that Acura does not care. They sold us expensive cars with awful transmissions and they just don't care.

They say they do. They give all appearances they do. They'll string us along through a process that gives us hope, but Acura knows what the answer will be before they even start you down that road. It's all for appearances so they can say "we do all we can for our customers".

But if I can't get my money's worth out of the car, I'm going to get my money's worth in making sure Acura gets regularly reminded of this issue.

sbillard

The car has a warranty. So if you have the time or can insist on a loaner, just keep taking it back for a "re-learn." Acura has to pay the dealer for these service costs.

Rocket_man

I feel bad for your issues. But on the lighter side.... take it in until they give you a 2016 loaner... then never bring it back. Tell them that there is no difference between the 2015 and 2016 according to your ACR. Offer to pay them for the difference in mileage and call it even.

JT4

Like I said in my post I personally haven't used them but thanks for the info, good to know.

1Louder

At this point I don't even want another TLX or another Acura for that matter. Even if the 2-3 shift were perfect, the 9-speed is so poorly implemented in the TLX I would not want to own it long term (and that would be the only reason to get a 2016, if I intended to own it 8-10 years).

jswift2000

I thought about trying carmax but I need to get a few more months of car payments in so I don't take too big of a hit in depreciation(I did get 15% off MSRP which will help). That being said, I reached out to Car and Drive, Road and Track and The Fast Lane Car, asking them to do a followup story on the 9-sp transmission in the 2015 TLX. I did this via twitter - I don't have many followers - but I have hopes. This will be our last Honda unless there is major improvement.

neil0311

Just heard from my service advisor and the regional rep test drove my car and approved replacing my transmission. Depending on availability of the new unit, I might have the car back early next week.

Vibration issues TBD.

jeich182

Did you try the kids over at Jalopnik? They aren't afraid to go after anyone with their infantile diatribes.

Illuminati

I really enjoy my TLX but i cannot lie, at times the transmission is a serious buzz kill. The 2-3 jerk is one thing, trying to merge onto the highway or change lanes is another. I miss the snappy downshifting of my 09 AWD TL. I've been almost rear ended like twice trying to switch lanes. I put my foot down on the gas pedal and it takes 1-2 seconds for it to speed up. Now i just use the paddle shifters to downshift, can't rely on the computer to do it efficiently. sigh..Happy that I leased.

Even if Acura did come out with a type s line, i don't think it'll have enough "thrill" for me to stick around. Guess we'll see what happens.

I think i'll look at infiniti for my next car. Not a huge fan of coupes but that new q60 coupe looks gorgeous.

JT4

You're right, he needs to keep bringing it back.

But on the other hand constantly going to the dealer is a real pain in the a$$ if you have the time or not. And after a while it burns you out which IMO is what Acura hopes happens.

I went through this years ago with MB, me and my wife were constantly at the dealer, I lost count of the amount of days and half days I took off until I got MB to agree to a buyback. Yeah we were persistent, but we were also "fried" when all was said and done.

It's a shame companies make their customers go through this even when these known issues are "duplicated" numerous times on test drives. The most frustrating part to me was when on test drives the ML would hesitate upon acceleration and slam into gear. And the shop foreman would look at me with a straight face and tell me it was a "characteristic" of the ML.

1Louder

While I like the idea of punishing Acura twice a month, I didn't buy a $44,000 car to have to take it in twice a month so it would operate correctly. The cost of my time alone would make it cheaper just to pay to get out of it.

Also I own three Acuras total that all get serviced at the same dealership. I'd rather not go on the "bad customer" list for the sake of my other two cars. So while Acura may pay the bill, the dealership feels the pain and this isn't the dealership's fault.

SCADAczar

I've been lurking around this forum for years since I had an '04 TL, making the occasional post. I have a 2015 TLX SH-AWD Adv. purchased at the end of April 2015. The car is currently at the dealership for the third time where there are trying to solve an issue I have with a loud chirping sound coming from the engine bay.

In my 2 previous visits to the dealership I've complained about the hard 1-2 & 2-3 shifts. The first visit they applied TSB-38 with no improvement. On my second visit they told me there were no other software updates that were applicable to my car. They supposedly worked for 3 hours with Acura tech line and the answer was the anticipated "your transmission is functioning within normal parameters".

This time while my car is being looked at they gave a 2016 TLX SH-AWD Tech model as a loaner and all I can say is what a difference in the shifting! I called the service rep right away and told him that my transmission is so harsh compared to this loaner that there has to be something wrong somewhere. Obviously Acura was aware that something needed to be changed with the transmission since there is such a big difference between the two. It angers me to see what my car could be and Acura's response to my complaints. I know it's an exercise in futility but I might have to schedule an appointment with an Acura rep for a test drive even though I know the response I'll get. I feel like I paid $45,000 to be a beta tester! Only a class action lawsuit would get Acura to pay attention.

hwolfie

I have steering wheel vibration and hard shift from 2 to 3


I wrote certified letters to the dealer and Acura that unless this is resolved we would have to let the Courts decide.


Haven't yet heard back from either one.


Unless resolved, I plan to file a small claim suit (< $5K) for the amount of money lost on a trade in and what I paid.


If someone is able to get an attorney to take a contingency class action against Acura I believe there are enough people having this transmission problem that might make it worthwhile for a young attorney.


Henry

1Louder

My feelings exactly.

Vlke

What I've been told by the field rep was that they indeed make changes to the 2016 transmission but all 2015 transmission has that 2-3 bump and it's normal. He did a clean state relearn on my TLX 2 days ago and it shifted better but he told me it's going to change in a week. Funny thing is, the next week the hard shifts back. So basically nothing happened at all except more of my time was wasted.

Rocket_man

This is not true. I have a late 2015 build and I don't have any hard shifts. I do have hesitation though.

Vlke

I pointed that out but he kinda just disregarded it...

hwolfie

Just from thecomments I am hearing, I think that Acura needs to be taken to Court.

If Acura getshit by hundreds or thousands of claims by those affected in Small ClaimCourt and consider the effect that might have on sales they might be moreamiable to be less rigid in their position and make things right.

A classaction suit would be better. Any attorneys out there that might be interested?

hwolfie

Just from the comments I am hearing, I think that Acura needs to be taken to Court.


If Acura gets hit by hundreds or thousands of claims by those affected in Small Claim Court and consider the effect that might have on sales and bad public relations, if given enough publicity, they might be more amiable to be less rigid in their position and make things right.


A class action suit would be better.


Any attorneys out there that might be interested?

1Louder

I think we're going to be hard pressed to get Acura to admit there is a mid-2015 fix. Because in doing so they'd have to concede the point there is a problem that needed fixing, and that contradicts their current narrative that this is "normal" and "within specifications". Acura isn't going to expose themselves to that kind of liability or make themselves out to be liars. They've kind of painted themselves into a corner where they only have two choices - do what they are doing now (stonewall, claim it's "normal") or admit a fix is needed and replace tens of thousands of transmissions.

Which is why I think we can put a fork in this issue and call it done. Except for the chosen few who's transmissions meet some magical unspecified criteria of "badness" that compels a replacement, or the appearance of a class action lawsuit, I don't see anything changing.

By the time we get into 2017 the transmission issues of the early 2015's will become a footnote.

I think a class action is a long shot because the transmission is not overtly dangerous, and it does not seem prone to breaking down (except of course, mine ). The only real harm to us is annoyance and possibly larger than expected depreciation and I doubt that's the stuff of lawsuits.

Case in point - in 1987 my wife bought a brand new Hyundai Excel for $8700. It was the worst pile of mechanical failure ever assembled and put on the road. She owned if for 2.5 years, had maybe 25K miles on it, and in that short amount of time accumulated three catastrophic mechanical failures. It was only worth $2000 in trade after that short amount of time. If that didn't warrant a class action, I doubt a bump in 1 out of 9 possible shifts is going to garner any attention. Not that I wouldn't mind, and I'd certainly join in if they did. But given we all probably have a story like mine, or know someone who did, I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

Just buying another brand when we have the chance is about all that's left.

rgpolson

There is a TSB related to chirping coming from timing belt. I had the TSB performed and it took care of the issue. Do you know if they have performed that TSB? I'll see if I can find the number.

SCADAczar

Thanks rgpolson for the reply. I had the timing belt TSB preformed 2 weeks ago and that didn't fix the problem so I brought back. At first they thought it was the timing belt tensioner but after replacing that the chirping was still there.

I just got a call from the dealership. They found the source of the chirping and it's related to the high pressure fuel pump. They explained to me that they were told by Acura not to replace the pump as that does not solve the issue with the chirping. I was told "they're working on it"! And to top it off they said there was nothing they can do about the transmission, Acura is working on that too. WTF! So am I just supposed to live with a $45,000 car that sounds like a field of crickets and shifts like an old dumb truck? I'm so mad I can't see straight and now I have to return a loaner that shows just what my car could be. I want to escalate this issue but I don't know where to take it.

hwolfie

See my earlier posting...They need to be taken to court either a class action or small claim.
small claim is less than $200 to file up to $5K in Florida. If there are enough owners affected by the steering wheel vibration and/or the hard shift they might react.


The fact they fixed it in the 2016 transmission is an implied acknowledgment that there was something wrong with some of the 2015 transmission.

Mike_TX

Well, I've said something similar before, but here it is again - we need to think like Acura for a moment, and more precisely, like their accountants.

- Acura sold approximately 50,000 2015 TLX's. I don't know the breakdown, but let's just assume a 50/50 split between 4-cyl and V6 models. That makes about 25,000 cars out there with 9-spd transmissions.

- If we further assume a replacement cost of $5,000 each, that's $125,000,000 to replace all the transmissions.

- I can't find the 2015 earnings report for HMC/Acura Division, but I'll pretty much guarantee a hit of $125 Million wouldn't go down well at Corporate. Even if they could obtain some contribution from the transmission manufacturer, the expense of labor, shipping, etc., etc., would be prohibitive.

- The transmission issue isn't life-threatening; it's just annoying.

Therefore:

- The Corporate strategy is to first minimize the situation at the dealer and ACR levels. Then, if the customer keeps complaining, send a field rep to assess the customer's car. Then do what they can, ie, a relearn or software update. Lastly, try to gently advise the customer the car is operating within specs and there's nothing else they can do. In extreme cases, replace the transmission, but that is to be done on an exception basis.

- Bottom line: Honda/Acura is not going to do a mass replacement of the transmissions, and there apparently isn't a part they can simply replace and fix it. They appear to be willing to alienate some customers as a result, but that's a gamble they seem prepared to accept.

My personal plan is to let my lease run another year to pay it down some more, then move on. There are several interesting cars out there that I'll look at when the time comes. The TLX is a good car in other respects, so if I can be convinced this issue is completely fixed I might look at the 2017 or 2018 model. Otherwise, something else.

In the meantime, I've got other fish to fry and I'm not going to let this give me heartburn.

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1Louder

^ x2.

SDSilverM3

Update on our situation -- After doing the relearn on 12/28, our issue is back rougher than ever. The 2-3 shifts are literally a pain the ass now and seems worse than they were prior to the relearn. It's kind of disappointing to read everyone else's updates on how they were told it wasn't an issue but also glad to hear some folks are getting their units replaced under warranty (finally!). We are going to keep trying for resolution and hope the rest do, too.

Having the luxury of another perspective now, it's a shame (and an embarrassment for Acura) when you feel on an everyday basis that a DCT in a performance car notorious for its clunkiness shifts smoother than a transmission that's designed to be smooth (as demonstrated by the other 8 gears on the 9AT).

Our plan is to tolerate the remaining two years left on the lease then no more Acuras for us. We'll keep pursuing a "fix" but each time our time is wasted by being told "it's normal" will equate to a cha-ching to some other brand at some point. There are plenty of other brands out there with absolutely no reason to stick with Acura anymore (you've lost your touch with design, product, and now customer service). We sure as heck won't be getting an NSX as planned, only to be told, "It's a normal characteristic of the car" when it's obviously not.

weather

Mike_TX....You raise good points but just a few counter points, not to discredit your post but for consideration.

1. If we use your 25 0000 unit sold, it doesn't mean Acura would have to go and replace every single one. That being said, people that go to the dealership for 2 or 3 times to deal with the same issue, why not give these people who are more concerned about the way their TLX shifts, a better unit? On the 25 000 unit you used, about 30 percent probably care so that drops the costs down quite a bit.

2. How much money does it truly cost Acura/ZF to actually replace the unit? Sure, as a regular paying customer, they would charge us 5K but as a corporate/partner cost, sure it is much less than that.

3. How much money has been lost in test drives, trouble shooting, re-programming costs and software development time and testing to develop the re-programming? That could be used to offset the cost of the units

4. How much money is lost through bad reputation, loyal customer loss and such will cost them in the long run?

So again, it wouldn't be cheap but at some point, they should do the right thing for people that are vocal and concerned about their units. You are correct, it is not a safety issue so a full recall is not required, but when people are going out of their way to try to have their vehicle operate to a level for which they feel is acceptable, then they should fess and do the right thing.

My 2 cents (that Acura can use to offset the cost)