timotea

My 3.2 TL overheats mostly at lower RPM's and especially when the heater is on. I've been through many, many posts here about overheating at low rpm's and all the possible causes. I've changed the thermostat, radiator cap, fan temp switch in radiator, paid good money to have Acura tech change fan control module, did the typical air purge procedure about five times with front end elevated and temp gauge still won't stay where it should. Fluid is correct, no leaks, but I find upper radiator hose collapsed at times when it's been overheating. In the morning I'll try "Pocket Trey's" method of expelling trapped air posted 4/10/08 but I have noticed my driver's side radiator fan not working unless the car is turned off (even if the temp gauge is elevated). I'd appreciate any help with troubleshooting the fan not working when the engine is hot and running. Is a relay involved and how would it be checked? I've thought of trying to somehow temporarily wire the fan to run constantly when the engine is running. I'm certainly hoping the head gaskets are OK. Any thoughts are appreciated.

main70072

Have you noticed any coolant loss? Did you check your oil to see if it's ok?

timotea

The oil is always fine. Coolant smells normal. The car runs well. Only a few times have I seen slight coolant loss at the overflow tank when the engine was getting hot. I may have had the tank filled above the "full" line which could possibly have contributed to the loss. I have not had the coolant evaluated for combustion gases to indicate possible head gasket failure... perhaps it will get to that point. The upper radiator hose is not that old but perhaps if it's collapsing sometimes it should be replaced with a new stiffer hose. Perhaps the radiator has issues... the lower hose often seems cooler than the upper hose. I'd certainly like to know why the radiator fan doesn't want to run when the key is on ... only after turning the key off. Could it be possible that the lower part of radiator is clogged (and staying cool) and not allowing the new fan temperature gauge to sense the need to turn the fan on? What tells the radiator fan to run for 15 minutes after the key is turned off? The nearest Acura dealer is not that close (Syracuse) and I haven't been too impressed with them. They do a great wash and vacuum though
Thanks again for any thoughts. I'll try the air purge procedure (suggested in another thread) before reposting.

TexasHonda

On TL's there are two cooling fans, radiator (pax side) and condensor (driver's side). Is one fan running and other fan not running? Not clear from your post. If one fan is running and the other is not, the non-running fan is likely faulty or wiring to that fan is damaged. Why?

System is designed for both cooling fans to run together whenever keyswitch is On and engine coolant temp > ~194F, or if AC is on (both fans run all time AC is running).

The radiator fan only (pax side) is designed to run w/ keyswitch OFF, if Engine OIL temp > 198F. This prevents excessive heat soaking from engine causing hed gasket damage.

good luck

timotea

I should have been more clear on the fans. Both fans run when A/C is on. The driver's side fan runs only after the key is turned off and engine is hot. Upon starting the engine today the upper hose was collapsed. I pulled the overflow hose off of the radiator spout and the upper hose remained collapsed...until I loosened radiator cap. The overflow tube is clear. I tried Pocket Trey's method of purging trapped air from near the heater core (pulled the upper heater hose from the firewall, etc.) Didn't notice anything but coolant during that process. Took the lower radiator hose off today and the radiator is not clogged.I will replace the upper radiator hose tomorrow but most likely there is something else going on here. If temp gauge gets to about 2/3rds what would that equate to in temperature? I'd think the radiator fan should come on by half way on the temp gauge. Hopefully my Autozone replacement parts are working properly (radiator cap, thermostat) radiator fan temp switch (Rock auto). I installed a new coolant temp switch (Autozone) today, not sure yet whether that will help. I'll test the car late tomorrow after replacing the upper hose.
Thanks again for any advice.

TexasHonda

The cooling fans temperature switch controls the fans and would be reason they do not come on at idle w/o AC. Does car overheat w/ AC running? If not, this confirms cooling fan control is the problem.

Hose collapse may be related to thermostat installation. There is a tiny bleed port in the thermostat that must be positioned correctly to allow pressures in system to equalize. If improperly installed, the lack of equalization of pressure across the thermostat could cause hose collapse. This is mostly speculation, and I've never had this problem.

good luck

timotea

I think that either the new upper radiator hose or coolant temp switch has helped (or both). The hose is a flex fit with a coiled wire supporting it...no way it'll collapse.
Temperature guage was fine today and now both fans are cycling every few minutes at idle. Today the fan did not run after turning off the engine though. Probably the engine isn't hot enough to sense the need for the fan to run after the engine is off? Hopefully the overheating is resolved and the engine life hasn't been shortened. I'll post again if anything develops. Thanks again.

timotea

Still having trouble with intermittent high temps, cool air some of the time (when set to 90 degrees) from climate control system when car is warm. Thought I'd replace the thermostat again...don't have a thermometer to check (in a pan of heated water) the thermostat I'm pulling out. The only new thermostat I could find locally Stant (#14127) has no jiggle pin or small bypass hole. Also it's rated to open at 170*. I figured opening at 170* might be a good thing. Two questions?? Is 170* opening going to cause any problems and is the small bypass hole required in the thermostat? Should I drill a hole in the top of it? Seems like Stant would think it not necessary.
BTW, If this headache continues I'll have the local Honda garage analyze the coolant for a possible head gasket problem as suggested by several of you here. That's a disturbing thought The oil looks fine, coolant reservoir might be suspect...hard to tell.

lankanboy1

i think i have the same problem in my car. but i loose coolent, i can drive around 400-500 Km on highway the car woudnt over heat but as soon as i get out of highway the car over heat. ( no fan comes on + heater blows cool air etc... ) tom i'm swapping a new engine and see whats going on.

desired_speeds

I'm running a stant 170 degrees without any problems. btw, are you leaking any coolant and how are you bleeding the coolant? heres the correct method: http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/883766-post7.html

timotea

No coolant loss. Before I installed the Stant stat I found a very, very small hole in the stat that I assume is for a small amount of bypass. I placed it at the top of course and refilled and purged system exactly as described in the TL manual I downloaded from another thread here... had the front of car elevated also. It did not involve repeatedly opening the air bleeder each time the fans cycle. Drove it for about half hour, constantly changing the climate control settings and the temp gauge was fine. When I turned engine off I could here lots of gurgling from the engine for a second or so. Coolant overflow reservoir was cool and between min and max. Radiator fan did not stay on after turning the key off, so I assume the engine temp was too low to require it to run. Putting in a new OEM Honda coolant temp sensor tomorrow to be safe. It's the one at the top front of engine passenger side. If the temp gauge elevates at all I'll do the extra air purge method also. I'll keep you updated. Thanks a lot for the help.

timotea

Good news, bad news
Update...car runs much smoother with new oem Honda coolant temp sensor. CEL went out also. Returned the Autozone sensor.Thanks to Desired Speed's purging tip http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/883766-post7.html IFound that there was still air trapped somewhere in the system. Drove the car for a while today with finger's crossed, but once again temp needle began to climb this afternoon. Looking more and more like the dreaded head gasket(s) are seeping. Question? Will it be too soon to do the coolant test for combustion gases if it's only been driven about 50 miles since last replacing all the coolant? I don't feel like wasting my money if the coolant hasn't run long enough to pick up the combustion gases. Once again, thanks for any advice.

desired_speeds

so you're not losing coolant at all? I'd get a hydrocarbon test done to see if it has any head gasket problems.

timotea

Coolant test shows head gasket is leaking. Car has 125K and in nice shape otherwise so I plan a challenging DIY. Probably water pump, timing belt, tensioner also. I'll use this DIY post to help me out along with a manual and patience http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulleti...t-d-i-y-65753/ . Resurfacing the heads is $35 a piece locally. Used engine prices and uncertainty of quality deter me from going that route. This forum has helped out a lot and hopefully this DIY procedure from Ice Man will be very similar to my '97 TL application. I'll take any input on the engine or procedure differences. Thanks again.

desired_speeds

I recommend using the felpro headgasket set, it comes with everything you need for a good price. OEM is just a ripoff.

timotea

Thanks for the advice. After lots of research here I did purchase new FelPro head gaskets. Dropping off the heads tomorrow to be machined. The head gasket between #3 cylinder and the exhaust manifold did not look well. I believe that others here have mentioned that being a problem area on the TL for some reason.
I've been a little puzzled by my valve train after looking at the Chilton's manual and the Legend post by Ice Man for the DIY head gasket job. It appears to me that the 3.2 valve train (rocker arms, etc.) is held in place by 22 bolts. My valve train is held in place by only 18 bolts which indicates it is a 3.5 engine. I'm following the torgue/loosening sequence required for the 3.5 heads. The engine is stamped C32A6. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Also, do I definitely have to install new cylinder head bolts? Nowhere have I found that it is required for the TL.
I appreciate all the advice.

desired_speeds

C32A6 is a 3.2 motor, it is definitely not a 3.5 motor. I've been hearing that chilton's manual is garbage. I'd follow the Legend service manual that is available online here: http://www.arnach.net/service/index.php
Use the guide for the 91-95 Legends (on the left side).

I'd also recommend that you over torque the heads bolts each by about 5 ft/lbs. as recommended on the legend forums. the service manual specifies that it should be torqued to 56 ft/lbs. Torque it to 61-62 ft/lbs.

timotea

Thanks for sending the Legend manual link. Being fairly new here I think I'm unable to attach pics of my rocker arms to this thread. Check out the pics in "My Album". The rocker arms from my engine have only 18 bolts securing them to the head and the cam in place. According to the Chilton's, my Mitchell repair c/d and the Legend Service manual http://www.arnach.net/service/index.php the Legend G2 and the 3.2 TL rocker arms should have 22 bolts. Notice the springs between my rocker arms...sure look like the 3.5 engine pic. Anyone here have them on their 3.2? I'm still confused by this and wondering if anyone has any ideas. I want to get the torquing correct. I don't know the history of my TL before 2005.
Also, can I reuse the cylinder head bolts? Haven't seen anywhere that it's prohibited.

desired_speeds

I'm not sure about the bolts on the rocker arms. it does seem very weird the way you mention it. but I do know that head bolts can be reused. If I have the time tonight, I'll pop the valve cover off the type II heads in my garage and take a look.

timotea

Found an explanation to the rocker arm confusion. Purchased a cheap Mitchell "On Demand" vehicle repair c/d on ebay a couple year ago and never used it much since it won't run on my Mac. Glad I dug it out and looked closely. All 3.2 TL's above production # 1309262 utilize the springs in center portion of rocker arm assembly and use only 18 bolts on cam/rocker arms. My Tl is #2312035. These heads require a different torquing sequence also. The illustrations do look like the 3.5 heads. This info was not available elsewhere for me. I would have called the nearest Acura dealer but they charge $91 minimum charge to open their bay door...probably the same for phone help.
Thanks for the head bolt info too. Got the heads back today, plenty of prep work to do this weekend (and pulling the dreaded crank pulley for timing belt change)
If anyone is searching for the head torquing info for these higher production models let me know.
Thanks again for the help.

curtisj

i had the exact same problem, my '97 tl has 245000kms on it though, i broke down and had it towed to midas where they did a hydrocarbon test on it, figured i have a leaking head gasket. my car is still leaking because i cant afford to fix it yet, im not sure wether to buy a new engine and swap it or if i should get the head gaskets done, i have two questions: once fixed did the fans work normally again and also did your heads warp from overheating?