hiyou52

Hey guys, I know there are many posts about the transmission, but I have a problem that I couldn't find on the threads...I have a 2000 Tl and it shudders at low rpms (been doing this for 2 weeks). I've read that this could be because of a bad trany filter, or clogged solenoid filters. Tomorrow I plan to replace the trany fluid (3qts at a time ofcourse) and was wondering if its a good idea to replace the trany filter, located under the air intake. Also, ive read that you are supposed to replace the tranny fluid 3 quts at a time with SEVERAL WEEKS in-between each change? is that correct? I'm gonna clean my solenoid filters while I'm at it and see if this shuddering thing stops. any more ideas on it shuddering?
Also, My CEL light came on today and was blinking... that means engine misfire? any tips on that? thanks

01acls

Yes thats ok do the 2x3 then a week later do 1x3. You mines as well change the trans filter too since you're all ready their working on the silenoid.

CEL... Could be anything. Is it throwing a code?

01acls

Yes thats ok do the 2x3 then a week later do 1x3. You mines as well change the trans filter too since you're all ready their working on the silenoid.

CEL... Could be anything. Is it throwing a code?

MarcDavidoff

^ what 01acls said.. See what the code is. What does the fluid in there now look like?
So far as the shuddering, it may be the torque converter clutch. Try driving in d4 and report back if the shudder is still there.

hiyou52

Ill try driving in d4 on my way to autozone... ill change my filter, and get them to look at the codes. thanks guys, ill keep you updated.

01tl4tl

use ONLY Honda dw-1 atf, not some stuff that's says its ok for acura- its not!

Skirmich

^ Have you found an aftermarket ATF that says its safe for an Acura?
I always see if its safe for Hondas

hiyou52

okay, so this morning i checked my transmission solenoid filters to see if they were clogged, they were fine, my trany fluid is a nasty grey-brown color, so im probably gonna change that soon. but as for my shuddering/skipping problem, I went to autozone and got them to check codes. they found a mis-fire on 1,2, and 4 cylinders, so i bought all new spark plugs, and replaced 3,4,5,6. 1 and 2 were stuck in there and felt like stripped or cross threaded (yes this is the first time ive checked these spark plugs from previous owner). so i left 1 and 2. i drove around for an hour and waited for the CEL to come on for 1 and 2 misfire it never did. Shuddering/skipping has stopped, definitely smoother ride and i can feel loads more power. so hopefully problem solved...any suggestions about what to do about 1 and 2 that are stuck possibly stripped? thanks guys I really appreciate you all!

01tl4tl

did you try slightly tightening them - that often breaks to corrosion bond, then loosen.
GENTLY is the operative word here

Also a spray of wd or any penetrating spray will soak into the threads (hopefully) loosening them for you

01tl4tl

get that garbage atf out of there right away!! with new external filter too
May have to push more than normal amount of atf thru to really clean out the gunk

01tl4tl

technically its a honda trans BUT still stay away from anything not direct from the dealer
especially when things are suspect

Skirmich

I don't think I have seen a "Welded" Spark Plug on a Honda ever before?
Are you sure they aren't just tight as hell?

01tl4tl

I think its that corrosion bond that occurs between dissimilar metals
At 100k+ they are often `stuck` from that

hiyou52

yeah im sure, i tried to break them loose, thinking that they were maybe too tight and it was really hard to turn and felt like it was just digging into metal each time i turned it. i tried tightening and then loosening again, no help felt same way both ways. so I tightened it to regular and left it, that was yesterday and i still have no CEL light on, and no skipping or evidence of misfires.

I haven't tried and WD or anything, i was afraid that would mess up something in the engine.

hiyou52

By the way, the plugs are in there are BOSH and ive read that they get way too hot for our cars, everyone said use NGK instead, so i bought NGK. 01tl04tl i think is right, but if it was corrosion, it wouldn't twist at all? for me it twists but VERY HARD to twist

01acls

[QUTE=hiyou52;15411665]By the way, the plugs are in there are BOSH and ive read that they get way too hot for our cars, everyone said use NGK instead, so i bought NGK. 01tl04tl i think is right, but if it was corrosion, it wouldn't twist at all? for me it twists but VERY HARD to twist[/QUOTE]

If that was my car I would leave it alone, move on. I mean its not misfiring no CEL. You can always F it up later. In the mean time change the trans fluild. If thats a platinum plug it could last a 100,000 miles maybe more.

Reasearh the plug thing, maybe you get lucky and find an answer some where.

TLer trash

In my experience, when a spark plug (or a bolt) moves a little bit, it ends up taking threads out of whatever casting it is in. This is despite using penetrants, heat,etc. Like 01acls said, you can leave well enough alone. The problem people here have had with bosch plugs isn't that they're too hot, it's that they sometimes don't last as long as the ngk. You might want to ask around to find a shop that is comfortable doing thread inserts for when the time comes. Heli-coil is the most commonly referred brand, but I like time-serts. Honda/acura also reference this brand in some repair bulletins. Putting a couple thread inserts in your head(s) is no big deal, but you should be prepared to do that if you decide to change those seized plugs.

01acls

Listen up Newbies!

Always use "Anti-Sieze" when installing spark plugs.

I'm not saying that's what caused these plugs to weld itself to the head. What I am saying is if you don't use anti-sieze on spark plugs when installing them, this is what can happen, plugs welding themselves to the head. Especially with the longer service life of the Iridium spark plugs.

Chojun

I bought a pack of anti-seize at the parts store for $1.

The instructions that I was given was to put a thin stripe down the threads, stopping short of the first 2 threads closest to the spark element.

I changed my plugs at 158K. I'm the 2nd owner of ~108K miles and to my knowledge the plugs were never previously changed, and the plugs were not difficult at all to remove. So I'd be curious to know why yours are stuck in there. Sounds like there might be a more serious problem.

Can you send a pic of your old plugs? Were they particularly nasty or crudded over?

musiclevelz5

In my experience the only reason plugs were difficult to remove was because they were tightened down too much when they were installed. A plug should not weld into a cylinder head unless the engine has been overheated. Everyone's own experiences may differ from mine.

Skirmich

That's why I'm confident the spark plug is just too tight... I never seen a welded Spark Plug on a Honda, I mean a stock Honda engine at least. I've seen a couple Tuboed Civics that got their spark plugs welded but that's because they used the incorrect heat rating.


But a stock TL? Not even close... I think PB Blaster and Some force will undo them easily..

01acls

Most likely they are stuck because the threads are semi strip. What happens is when you over tighten some thing the threads get distorted and misaligned. That's why if you force it out pieces of aluminum will come out with the plug.

Or electrolysis have set in and the metals have fuse together. Since the spark plug is part of the head now, when you go to unscrew it, the spark plug will pull small chunks of the aluminum out with it, because aluminum is the softer metal of the two.

01tl4tl

usually a `quick oil change` place will install bosch plugs because they are the cheapest thing they can buy!
do they care about the RIGHT plug for the car- uh,,,NO!
Same concern is applied to installation~

We know to lower the plug down using a piece of vac tubing- start threads with fingertip control- to avoid cross threading- which is probably whats happened to the OPs car,
If someone dropped the plugs down the hole then used a long extension to start them -- maybe even an air powered ratchet!!! no thought of correct torque enters their mind,,mindless drones

01tl4tl

using spark plug anti seize: apply a thin strip to one side as noted above- keep it away from the working tip of the plug by staying above the last 2 threads,
It will bake on as soon as engine is running, fouling the plug~
OR
a thin stripe around the lower section of threads, again staying clear of the last 2

any method getting a small amount on is better than no anti-seize,
can be used for many things BUT don't let it near the wheel stud/lug threads either!

Incinerary

According to NGK, you're NOT supposed to use anti-seize on your spark plugs! Please read this!

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/dyk_5points.pdf

Also, the manual suggests that you use the NGK Laser Platinums which you torque to 13 pounds. That's for the 2002 TL-S, and I'm sure it's similar for the other TL's, but double check with your manual just in case for part numbers and torquing specs.

01acls

The anti-sieze is not for corrosion. It's to prevent dissimilar metals from reacting to each other. Like steel and aluminum.

But thats good info... might have to rethink that one.

Does anyone know if that is written on the NGK packaging... not to use anti-sieze?

01acls

BTW: In the NGK statement, no where in that statement does it say "Not to use anti-sieze". It said "Without the use of anti-sieze". Apon closer inspection of that statement, it sounds like to me they're warning us to be careful when using anti-sieze not to over tighten. It's true anti-sieze does act as a lubricant. Likewise, how many plugs do you think NGK has had to remove after the new car was sold? Very little if any.

Personally I will continue to use it based on past experience of the threads being really dry/binding when removing the old plug without anti-sieze.

Chojun

Thanks for the info, I got mine in tight with anti-seize, but I gripped the socket by the head when tightening so that I wouldn't get it over tight. I also used just a very thin stripe of anti-seize across the threads, stopping short of threads 1 and 2.

01tl4tl

ngk warning is ONLY about over-tightening abilty because they turn easily with the anti seize on them!
If you are skilled and can tell 13#s with muscle memory or a torque wrench
then no issue exist

corrosion for purposes of this thread topic means the dissimilar metal breakdown and bonding that occurs over time

When the plugs were installed at factory- by a machine carefully calibrated to exert exact torque- removal 10 years later by a human was not a thought

01tl4tl

looks like there were different plugs by year, 99s had iridium, next few years Platinum, 02 apparently calls for lazer plats, which refers to the manner its `welded` together ie LASER technology/heat to weld with
gen3 went irid, many of us use Irid or Iridium IX (supposedly racier)

stay with ngk and you cant go wrong, unless someone sells you the 2 dollar plugs which are NOT for our high energy coil on plug system

thoiboi

In regards to anti-seize, us over on the 3G forums have two different torque ratings:

1. without anti-seize
2. with anti-seize

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-seize-913514/

Hope this helps!