antlive

yeah, but this has to be addressed in a legal way. like I said, they have successfully settled a number of TL cases.

acutee

Here is a link to the Honda/Acura Transmission Class Action I found:

http://www.kabolaw.com/pages/default.asp?pid=129

I am sure we all agree that we don't want their extended warranty, we want the KNOWN PPROBLEMS TO BE FIXED. Would they extend the warranty if there is no problem? I don't think so. Why wait for it to break and beg them to fix it. It is a known problem and it should be fixed properly. Their extended warranty is a trick, a smart way to buy time from consumer, and hope we will all eventually run out of warranty, then we will have to pay for their problem when it broke down. It is just the matter of time and it will happen to everyone of us. This is not about warranty repair issue, IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE, "DEFECTIVE MATERIAL WORKMANSHIP", AND MUST BE FIXED REGARDLESS OF WARRANTY. Fix the problem and keep their extended warranty.

Scotten

Okay, can I bitch for a minute? All this class action stuff is cool, but each of these lawyers only handles 1-3 states, which doesn't help everyone (like me). Anyone know of a good national law firm that's handling a nationwide class action suit??

TurboSam

um, just curious, why arent u people having these problems taken care of. honda has come out an acknowledged a problem, why not just get it fixed....


oh, and BTW, the problem is with 2nd gear, not 3rd

scottiew

How can you say get it fixed when people go through 3-4 "new" transmissions. That's not a fix, that's a patch. Their efforts are merely for temporary fixes.

MarcDavidoff

Man, reading thru this long posting it does make me feel like selling my TL-S! But, I love the car and have 27,000 on it. I knew about the tranny issues, but after seeing and reading about all the issues here, I sure feel vulnerable. I have the 100k/7yr warranty anyway since I bought the car a year old and certified. I know they will fix it for free and all, but just the thought of bringing my cars into a dealer makes me cringe. I had the oil jet installed and the tech said they look at the gears for visible damage. Is this even possible? Do these trannys have an inspection window? I have a '93 Accord SE coupe with 102k miles and is in mint cond. Not sure why I have held on to it, other than the fact that I it has been the best car I have ever owned and I believe the best year/ most reliable Accord ever made. Who knows, maybe in 10-15yrs it will become a classic. The only item I have ever brought it in for was the timing belt. I baby that and the Acura and I am pretty anal about maintenance. I have changed the fluid in the Accord every 15k miles since day 1 and seems to do the trick at keeping the tranny clean and running right. The book for that car says every 30k. The TL says every 100k or so I believe. I changed it on the TL at 15k and plan to do so at 30k again. A local Honda/Acura repair place near me (not a dealer) gave me this "tip" a long time ago for the Accord. Change the fluid at half the interval that Honda recommends. There is no serviceable filter on these cars, so I feel it necessary to do more frequent changes. 100k for any car is nuts to me anyway, so I suppose my only hope at perhaps making mine last is changing it like I mentioned..
sorry for rambling..

oblio98

You should go back to the threads from 3 years ago, when certain members here were having tranny issues EARLY with their TL Type S's, and they were getting blasted by other members for beating their cars! Move ahead a year, and some of those same members then experienced tranny failures of their own!

In retrospect, it's kinda funny...............in a sick way!

MarcDavidoff

Don't get me wrong, I baby the car so far as maintainence and keeping it clean/garaged, but I did not buy the Type-S for nothing. I get on my TL-S quite often.. Not beat on necessarily..but make full use of the auto-shift and 260hp if you know what I mean..

oblio98

...................as well you should!

mikegtls02

My f@#$%in tranny went out taday 47k. Damn piece of crap. I'm really pissed cause I don't beat on my car its well maintained and now this, this sucks. You know you buy a $30,000 car expecting to not have these kinds of problems, this is ridiculous. Just have some questions guys, will dealer void warr for i/h/e? does the engine light usually come on when the tranny goes out? my vsa light came on too!! Is this normal or did more shit break? I'm really upset, who knows whats gonna happen, or how long I'll be out of a car. Has anyone on here from Orlando Florida area dealt with Fountain Acura? Any feedback would be appreciated.

avs007

They shouldn't give you a hard time about i/h/e. I don't even have a type S, just a regular premium, and my tranny broke

However, when my tranny broke, none of the idiot lights turned on... But it could be normal... I know on my other car, when I was thumbing threw the DTC codes, that the SES light turns on for, some of the ones listed involved the ECU detecting shift errors.

mikegtls02

thanks I find out tomm what thier decision is. It was hard watching her go on that flatbed. I hope she gets better soon I'll miss her

todorable

Well, mike, welxome to our world. I DO NOT like the people at Fountain, but that may just be my experience. If I were you I would take the 528 to 417N and go to Courtesy in Sanford. They are great!

Oh, and for the doubters out there who say we are whining...my last tranny change lasted just 3 weeks and only 67 miles........

NOW try and tell me Honda is doing the right thing. I am so sick of it. And, while I was at the dealership I heard them turning down someone on warranty work who needed a tranny b/c it was over 100K and they would have to pay $5K for a replacement. These people just bought the car used from a local wholesaler, who recently replaced the tranny, but b/c the title had transferred the new owners were SOL. Insane. I will NEVER buy another Acura ever! Shame, too, cuz other than this, and some seriously screwy rotors, I love the car :-)

mikegtls02

Well its too late for that my car is at Fountain. Do you think they'll give me a hard time? What happened that made you not like them?

MarcDavidoff

Hey all, I'm sure most of you are aware of the nhtsa website and the have searched for the defect info on the tranny problems. But in case you were not aware, here is the link: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm
Mine is a 2002 TL, but I'm sure any model that is affected (99-03) will bring up the same results. If you scan thru some of the pdf files (which are large and take some time), you come across some interesting info. Basically the facts and research Acura has been doing (and made to do I suspect). You can see some info regarding which years and models have more issues as well as charts showing trends on when the car was produced and failure rates. It is all really about the 3rd clutch burning up. Looks like an issue regarding a few factors- poor manufacturing (US made clutches as opposed to Japanese ones), poor lubrication, and poor clearances on the clutch packs. All or part of this leads to clogged filters and orifices that just accelerate the failures. Maybe another good reason to change the fluid often..or maybe to just hold off the inevitable a little longer..Looks like many failures happened at around the 10000 to 30000 mile range. Anyway, check the files out...

MarcDavidoff

sorry- just noticed that the correct link is: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...fectsearch.cfm. The other one is for recalls..

JR_NoVA

Thank you very much for providing a link to some hard facts and details!!


In data provided in approximately Feb 2002, it was noted that much larger numbers of transmission failures occured in cars that were manufactured in the period from Apr to Jun 2000, and from Sep 2000 to Feb 2001.


Another piece of signficant data was that 5,375 cars reported transmission failures - due to "3rd clutch failure" - out of 681,103 cars manufactured.

In reading through this information - and in all fairness to Acura/Honda - it looks as if significant work has apparently been done to identify the problems in the transmission, and to upgrade the transmission components and resolve the problem.

However -- this does not alter the fact that Acura/Honda transmissions manufactured for several years have shown significant failure rates, which has caused a considerable amount of pain and aggravation for many of the TL owners/lovers in this thread, and considerable fear and trepidation to the rest of us.

I basically am going to drive this cat like it was meant to be driven! We'll just see what happens!!



Also, my condolences to all who have had transmission failures. I may "feel your pain" eventually!

MarcDavidoff

I am new to the forum and was not sure who knew about this data. I agree with you JR_Nova, like you say, it does look like Honda corp. has done a considerable amount of investigation on the issue. Some of it seems to have been done before the nhtsa started getting on their case about it. There is quite a bit of correspondence about the failures..especially after many complaints having been made to the nhtsa about sudden failures on the hwy almost causing accidents. It seems to me that once people start having real potential safety issues (as in car dying in a pssing lane at 65mph) the safety board takes action. Maybe if more folks having breakdowns fill out complaints on the nhtsa website it will even gain more attention. I'm not sure at what point the nhtsa would require further action from the manufacturer. Yeah it is great that Honda extended the warranty to 100k miles, but the main issue I see is that the replacement tranny's are defective too. Fortunately, many of the complaints already in to the nhtsa and Honda are from folks disgusted with repeat failures.
I found the file that has the Acura helpline info pretty neat. Documents you would not normally see regarding chats between the customer and the phone rep from Acura. You can see that they even bought back some vehicles when the customer persisted.
I called the nhtsa to see if there was any current info on the subject, but they said there are no open files on the issue right now..

AcuraT

--------------------------------------------------
Hmmm.... I was lucky, with only one transmission failure at 68,000 miles. Made a decision to sell my car with 80,000 on it and replaced it with a 2004 Honda Accord. I will give Honda another chance, but I am waiting to see the track record of the new TL before purchasing. In my final visit to the Acura dealer last week (which I will miss, they were the best iservice I have ever had from a dealer anywhere), not one, but two Acura TLs were towed into the dealership while I was there. Both with blown trannies. One guy was on his fifth (yes, 5th) transmission at 90,000 miles, the other on his third. I give both of them credit for sticking with this as long as they have. I don't think I could have taken five go arounds on this merry-go-round. Good luck everyone!

mikegtls02

well Fountain Acura in orlando is going to replace my tranny despite i/h/e, i'm glad too, cause some people were saying they wouldn't because of that stuff. But, just in case I was armed with pages upon pages of reports on these trannies which would prove that my upgrades had nothing to do with thier poor design. Anyway I hope this is my first and only tranny problem thanks to all for your input

HotBoyinDaAcura

My 03 Tl type S was bought back from the owner by honda but when honda buys the car back they completely fix the problem so i got a really clean tl with only 21k miles on it for a very good price oh yea navi too

MarcDavidoff

I have been thinking about adding an external tranny cooler and maybe even an in-line external filter on my '02 TL. From the data I have read from Honda's research into the issue (see my post above), the main issues of the 3rd clutch failures were poorly made 3rd clutches and overheating of the fluid. Between the fluid getting overheated and the clutches contaminating the filters inside the tranny, the result was poor fluid pressure and subsequent shifting issues. I'm sure adding these (total of about $100) would help any transmission, but two things make me hesitant- 1) If I add these items and I still have a failure, will Acura give me a hassle on warranty, and 2) Will this just perhaps delay the inevitable?? Any opinions?

avs007

You would think if that would "fix" the problem, Acura would be doing that for us, instead of extending our warranty to 100,000 miles. It may make it better, but I'd hate to have it make your tranny go out at 105,000 miles, where you'd be SOL.

NickS

All they did is replace the transmission like they would for any of us. It's only "fixed" until the current transmission goes out. Sorry to burst your bubble but knowing the truth is better than believing a lie.

MarcDavidoff

Yeah, I was thinking the same, why not add a $50 cooler instead of replacing tranny's that will go out again. Does'nt make sense, but corporate reasoning sometimes does not make sense. Reminds me of when I bought my house a few years ago..they would rather return 5 times to fix the same problem half-ass rather than do it right the first time.

MikePA

AFAIK, adding a cooler won't 'fix' the problem either. Transmissions are not failing because the fluid gets too hot.

jtidwell3

ok here the deal my 00 tl tranny just died, well i think it did its slipping bad and shifts extremely hard in all gears. should i replace the whole tranny or get it fixed. acura quoted me 5k to replace with new...they said they didnt fix only replaced. im from memphis, TN. is there a cheaper way to go about getting this thing fixed. in ss mode the problem isnt as bad. because i have control. but still needs to be fixed any help would be appreciated.

MarcDavidoff

Take a read of the documents on the nhtsa website..part of the problem is overheating of the tranny fluid.. I was talking to a local Acura/Honda specialist shop near me and he mentioned he had heard that Honda was looking into their fluid and it's thermal properties.

Severin

Quite a few forum members have installed tranny coolers and I believe that even they have had trannys fail.

Noahkk17

Point in case, the fluid just gets too hot for a tranny cooler to do it's work, let alone how small these tranny cooler's are in the first place...

PA-TL-MAN

Just last week I had my transmission replaced on my 2002 TL Type-S at 41,500 miles. I bought this car new and I changed the transmission fluid myself at 15k and 30k. This car is driven on the highway about 95% of the time, and I never use the 'sport shift'. The only indication that it gave me was when the car was sitting in the garage for long periods of time (over one week), it would not engage in reverse immediately. It would wait 3 seconds and then catch. That happened about 3 times over the last 2 1/2 years, and I thought it was just my imagination. The transmission never slipped, in any gear, and always shifted smoothly. After reading the stories on this website, i thought I got a good one. The only reason that I brought my TL to the dealership is because of the recall notice I received in the mail. When I got to the dealership to pick my car up, they told me that I needed a new transmission. So I then asked them how long it would be and they told me one week. They also gave me a rental (a Chrysler Pacifica) from Enterprise, free of charge (just pay for gas). I was really not impressed with the Chrysler. You know, no power, no handle, and no quality. Then I thought to myself ... who would buy a piece of junk like this? It was all wheel drive, so I used it in about 4 inches of snow to go up my driveway. It did it without a slip. Now that was the only thing that impressed me. Anyway, I got my TL back on time, as promised, and it seemed to act the same way it did before they replaced the transmission (and the ECU). I really did not notice any difference in performance or shifting, but after driving that Chruysler, anything was an improvement. Once I arrived home and popped the hood, I noticed the 'blue' bolts on the transmission. That's my TL transmission story.

MarcDavidoff

Is that why any large truck for towing trailers has them? Because they don't work??

"Just last week I had my transmission replaced on my 2002 TL Type-S at 41,500 miles. I bought this car new and I changed the transmission fluid myself at 15k and 30k."
That sucks- I have the same car, same year.. I have 27k on it and changed the fluid at 15k and was gonna do it soon at 30k. Your story makes me sound like I am on the same path . I just noticed last weekend that it seemed to hesistate when backing out of the garage after it sat for a week..and like you mention, I just thought it was my imagination. I just had it in not too long ago as well for the fluid jet recall and they said everything looked fine. I really wonder if they did the procedure about taking the pictures of the 3rd gear and all..

Severin

The TL does not have tranny cooler at all.

MarcDavidoff

Severin- I think you're right now that I popped the hood. I assumed there was a cooler in the radiator, but I don't see any lines running to it. I'm gonna have to go under the car and take a look tomorrow. Every Acura/Honda I have had in the past had a cooler section at the bottom of the radiator- actually any car I can think of. Well that would make it tough to add an external one then. At least one in the radiator may help cool the fluid a bit to begin with..

Noahkk17

Oh, is that why no body is talking about a large truck?

People, please don't over read simple things...Severin, no where can I see where I said that TL's have tranny cooler's.

HotBoyinDaAcura

Yea but if you knew what i paid for my car you would shut up

MarcDavidoff

I stopped in at the Acura dealer today as I was driving by to pick up some maintenance items. A guy next to me was there to pick up his car with it's 3rd new tranny. The replacement lasted a week. In talking with the parts counter guy, he said (as is obvious) they have been getting steady transmission replacements. He was pretty candid about the issues, but did not have anything new to report other than during the winter months (I'm in NJ), they see less failures. The southern states do have more issues which confirms the idea of a main part of the issue being overheating of the fluid. Anyway, if everyone having a failure makes sure they go to the nhtsa.gov website and fills out a complaint at the office of defects, perhaps they will continue to pursue issues with Acura. They closed all investigations in '03. I only see 65 complaints on their website..

jlaavenger

They installed the tranny cooler Dec 2nd 2004 at 108000 miles, tranny went out Feb 25 2005 at 114000 miles. It would rev high to 5000 rpm before shifting into third. They said it was not covered under the recall because the recall was for burnt gears and that my tranny problem was a clutch problem. Automatic? And it would cost me $6200 to fix. Acura wouldn't budge either because my car had excessive highway miles and all of my service wasn't done exclussively at Acura. ie. Oil changes. When I left the dealer it was 100 times worse. I barely survived the trip to a local Transmission repair shop. Hope it's not a mistake, but I don't have $6000 to spare.

MarcDavidoff

Just curious- did you mean blue paint on the bolts? I have blue paint across the heads of the bolts on mine, but I figured that was from the factory..

VTEC11

$6200? Seems high, hope that's canadian. Anyway, let us know what happens.