Jamus22

Hi guys,

Not sure if I was supposed to generate a new thread for this or revive a very old thread. I apologize if I was supposed to revive an old thread instead.

My issue is that the "ABS", "VSA", and the Exclamation Points are all currently on. So I decided to get it read by midas who did it for free since Parts Stores such as Advanced Auto or Autozone can only read MIL or Check Engine lights.

In any case, below are the codes that triggered when it was scanned by Midas.

• DTC 1/3: code 51-01 "ABS PUMP MOTOR FAILURE
• DTC 2/3: code 53-01 "ABS PUMP MOTOR RELAY SHORT CIRCUIT
• DTC 3/3: code 83-01 "ECM/PCM RELATION FAILURE"

The tech at Midas was nice enough to clear the codes to see if came back. Sure enough the lights came back on after a minute of driving it.

I was hoping the scanner would spit out a code for one of the wheel sensors but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Any help in troubleshooting what is causing the above codes to trigger would greatly be appreciate it.

Thanks guys!!!

01tl4tl

car year, miles, type s? LOCATION and how was it driving before this occurred?
recent accident= potholes count! curb slam in drift practice??

Go to an autozone type store for code readings, dont care you had them read at AA!
Actual problems with the abs are rare. Failure of a speed sensor, crudding of the place sensor reads from, and things I dont know about can happen

Even flush the brake fluid??? thats due every YEAR, or once every 2 years MAX between full fluid change. Old fluid causes way too many problems to ignore~

Get under the car, or go to a brake specialty shop, look for rust and salt buildup on the teeth for reader, tug on speed sensor wires- common to have 1 rot away
Better a specialty shop than a joe any brand repairs for something like this
Those shops have the special ABS reader too

Where does the car operate- ocean or road salt areas?
Any idea what driving mishap could have contributed to this?

01tl4tl

the big question- does ABS work?
from 45mph on gravel or wet road- stomp the brakes with both feet -as if a semi just backed out in front of you
and death is looming in the windshield!!

Swerve the wheel back and forth wildly = causing the tires to lose traction
The ABS should kick in and shake your foot as it operates the brake on and off every millisecond or 3

Do this to a full stop from 45mph, then accelerate normally to 45 and repeat ABS to fully stopped.
Any change in action or improved/firmer feel of pedal under your foot the 2nd time?

Does cruise control work? both those systems need functioning speed sensors to operate

Jamus22

Confirmed that ABS does not work. I slammed on the brakes to verify this and the car skid instead of the abs kicking in. Tried slamming on the brakes going 45MPH as well and the pedal feels the same.

I bled the brakes about 7 months ago when I replaced both rear calipers. The ABS light came on a week ago or so (my dad drives this car primarily)

I'll check the cruise control as well as get under the car and look for loose speed sensor wires, etc and report back. thanks.

Jamus22

Not sure. My dad was driving this car when he told me the ABS lights went on. He claims he didn't hit any potholes or anything like that recently.

Primarily drive in Illinois so in the the winter time so salt may be an issue. This car does have 130k miles on it.

Planning on taking the wheels out over the weekend and checking each speed sensors.

However, I did want to mention that there is some sort of rotational rubbing noise from the front end while driving. The rubbing noise gets faster as the car speeds up. This noise has been there for a while even before the ABS lights came on so this can't be causing the light to trigger. Can't pinpoint where this noise is coming from as well. I'll get under the car tomorrow and take another look for the noise while checking the sensors again. thanks.

01tl4tl

get a harbor freight mechanics stethoscope for under 5 dollars. Parts stores for about 10$
Makes bearing noises easy to locate, any rotational noise- and you get to look like a car Doctor! White coat optional

If no ABS, no cruise- same speed sensors at work BUT ck throttle linkage for cruise, outer edge of cable support area
can break off and jam cable- mess things up!

Brake bleed- the special TL order is driver front then clockwise around the car
LF RF RR LR Once a year is recommended, every 2 years is MAX allowed between brake fluid flushes!!
Who here is a juuuuuuuusssssssst a littlttttle overdue

Rear caliper failure usually points to several years old brake fluid was in there before
Was that your cause of death? pistons get stuck?

The ABS test = you MUST do this when brake lines have been opened!!!! like when new calipers are installed.
The 2, 45 mph to stopped- ABS active stops described before are important yet largely unknown procedure!
Air likes to sneak in the ABS system while brake line is open- hiding until that system is activated- then air is pumped thru to a caliper for removal - usually left front
Normal round of bleeding wont find that air! All will appear to be well, but its not! Until you do this~

The 1st stop moves the air from ABS to regular system- the 2nd stop- having firmer pedal- confirms air is present.
Now you have to repeat the full bleed procedure to clear that tricky air! Its possible some cars wont get better pedal
on 2nd stop = you didnt have any hidden air- congrats!
Wont hurt to do this after you inspect the wheel speed sensors

A really good flush on the TL brake fluid requires ~1.5 Quarts of DOT4 fluid
not 3 not 5,,,dot4....some bottles will say DOT 3/4, thats really 4 and ok to use
Happy Flushing!

Did you have a real auto parts store do a code scan yet? Need some miles between clearings to get codes establised in some cases

Jamus22

Thanks 01tl4tl. I'll give your recommended actions a try.

- get a harbor freight mechanics stethoscope for under 5 dollars. Parts stores for about 10$. Makes bearing noises easy to locate, any rotational noise- and you get to look like a car Doctor! White coat optional ---- (I'll give this a shot for the noise)

If no ABS, no cruise- same speed sensors at work BUT ck throttle linkage for cruise, outer edge of cable support area can break off and jam cable- mess things up! ---- (Confirmed no cruise control. can't decel or accel with cruise control buttons on steering wheel, so no cruise control).

Brake bleed- the special TL order is driver front then clockwise around the car
LF RF RR LR Once a year is recommended, every 2 years is MAX allowed between brake fluid flushes!!
Who here is a juuuuuuuusssssssst a littlttttle overdue ----- (followed this sequence when I bled the brakes this year when I replaced the rear calipers).

Rear caliper failure usually points to several years old brake fluid was in there before Was that your cause of death? pistons get stuck? --- (Yes the boot covering one of the pistons was deformed and it was stuck so I replaced both rear calipers at the same time then the bled it)

The ABS test = you MUST do this when brake lines have been opened!!!! like when new calipers are installed.
The 2, 45 mph to stopped- ABS active stops described before are important yet largely unknown procedure!
Air likes to sneak in the ABS system while brake line is open- hiding until that system is activated- then air is pumped thru to a caliper for removal - usually left front
Normal round of bleeding wont find that air! All will appear to be well, but its not! Until you do this~ --- (I did do this procedure after I bled the brakes. However, I wasn't going 45mph...more like 35 to 40mph. Will this make a difference? Also, I couldn't tell if the pedal felt firmer or not on the second abs stop after bleeding. Could this have caused the ABS lights to trigger? Meaning will air in the ABS unit as you mentioned cause the ABS light to illuminate on dash? Keep in mind I did this about 6 months ago. Think if this was the cause, the lights would have came up sooner then 6 months later.)

The 1st stop moves the air from ABS to regular system- the 2nd stop- having firmer pedal- confirms air is present.
Now you have to repeat the full bleed procedure to clear that tricky air! Its possible some cars wont get better pedal
on 2nd stop = you didnt have any hidden air- congrats!
Wont hurt to do this after you inspect the wheel speed sensors - (Well at this point, even if I wanted to to this test again, my ABS will not engage due to the DTC code that is currently triggered. My wheels lockup when I slam on the brakes.)

A really good flush on the TL brake fluid requires ~1.5 Quarts of DOT4 fluid
not 3 not 5,,,dot4....some bottles will say DOT 3/4, thats really 4 and ok to use
Happy Flushing!

Did you have a real auto parts store do a code scan yet? Need some miles between clearings to get codes establised in some cases ---- The code reader/scanner that retrieved the codes that I have listed in my original post were obtained with "Creader VIII" by Launch. I've checked other shops around my area, and the cheapest I found was $100 just to retrieve the codes. I called Auto zone and they said they can only do Check Engine Light codes for Acuras.

01tl4tl

speed sensors are only $50! and the likely suspect

When you did the original bleed- did you do the 2 stops with pedal pumping under your foot? then rebled the entire system
or just left it as is?
I dont think 35-40mph hurt the original testing 6 months ago. Its doing it 2 times with ABS active being the key

Were the brake used in a manner that required ABS operation, then the light came on?

reminder of what I have drilled in to many minds:
Codes are CLUES not a Diagnosis in themselves, and will often lead you astray!
Its symptoms + codes + experiences of the group that will get the right fix!

Think of them as advisories that SOMETHING is wrong- the computer doesnt know for sure what so it spits out a bunch of codes-
some of them false

01tl4tl

Have you done a brake bleed now? see if any air is waiting for you!
There must be fuses and relays for the ABS, those are all tested good- not just visual = with a meter!

Odd thought: how is the battery for the car doing? weird codes often come up with low voltage situations,
dirty grounds or bad sensors
That can include bad battery ground wires too!

Recently a ziner found the ground wire itself- inside its connector where it bolts to the frame- for the battery NEG cable --- LOOSE!
the MAIN ground for the car!!
You could wiggle the cable inside the crimped portion of the connector!
That'll mess with the car.. and your head!

Jamus22

Update - It was the front wheel bearings making the front end noise causing the wheel sensors to go bad which triggered the ABS light. I ended up just taking it to a mechanic since I've spent too much time on it.

Thanks for your efforts 01tl4tl.

01tl4tl

any details how a wheel bearing made the sensors go bad?

Jamus22

The mechanic told me that he worked another TL in the past which came in with noise coming from the front wheels along with ABS/VSA lights that were lit on the dash. He said he read some diagnosis/troubshooting report from Acura regarding the ABS/VSA lights and stated that bad wheel bearings could cause the wheel sensors to read incorrectly and trigger the ABS light on the dash. So I had him replace the wheel bearing along with the wheel sensor on driverside then he cleared the light which came back on instantly. HOWEVER, he told me to driver it for a few days and bring it back if the ABS light does not turn off with a few days of driving it. To my surprise, the lights went off after two days of driving the car and has not come back on. Thank GOD!!! Another mechanic I went to prior to this one just wanted to flat out replace the ABS pump for like $600. Glad I decided to get a second opinion!!!

Chojun

My guess is the vibration from the bad bearing was throwing off the sensor that reads wheel movement.

2000rrl

Sounds worth a try, but i am not hearing any noise from the front. nice thread though

2000rrl

where was that mechanic located in chicago i'd like to try him out...

Rus-H

Jamus22, I'm dealing the same issue for over a year. My local mechanic says his code reader can't read Acura ABS codes. Took it to the dealer last summer, and there were so many old codes they didn't know what caused what. They cleared everything, and the three brake related lights came back on quickly. I have an appointment on Thursday to have it re-read. The dealer claimed the ABS Pump Motor would be a $1,400 CAD repair, if that is indeed what is required.

DJF

Why fight the obvious? I would venture its 90% the ABS pump. Your brakes still work, just not ABS function. Fairly simple repair. Not sure why it's $1400. Try an independent repair shop.

Rus-H

The ABS pump modulator part was $1,200. The dealer charger $400 labor to install the part and flush the brake system. I went with the dealer because the independent shops were quoting the same price. I figured if the ABS pump modulator failed to address the problem, I might have a chance to question their diagnostic testing.

As it turned out, the dealer fix solved the problem. In the end I figured putting $1,600 into a car I've owned since new is probably worthwhile. At least I know what I've got and everything is working properly.

DJF

Yep, I had the dealer replace my fuel pump relay for the same reason: They've done all the work since new and I only wanted to point fingers at one person if it didn't work.

DJF

When my Ignition Coils started to malfunction, my ABS, Check Engine, yellow triangle exclamation light and other dash lights all came on. My car was running a bit rough, especially when cold in the morning, then one Coil totally died and all the above lights came on permanently. Not sure if faulty ignition coils give out engine codes but they can be easily diagnosed if the mechanic knows where to look.

Jamie Xiong

Brandon Kelley

I ran codes it pulls up p0685 an u0107 the vsa ..vtm4lock and check engine lights on also has no reverse put in reverse there no rpm no grind just nothing

fr33spirit

would you mind telling me what the prob ended up being in your car?! I've got a TSX that has the U0107 DTC.
my situation is a little diff tho bc it's the only code and I'm able to go in reverse perfectly fine... wish i cld drive backwards everywhere bc in drive it hardly moves..(limp mode).
I've been trying to diagnose this issue since JUNE & been without transportation since then as well.
i followed all the instructions in the service manual and all the voltage and continuity tests came out normal. replaced the TAC module.. no luck.. I'm at a loss on what to try now except see what other Acura owners with this DTC ended up needing to do, although that's proving to be quite difficult since there aren't many ppl I've seen who have mentioned pulling this particular DTC.

carid97

I have a 2012 TSX special edition, when I started car it stalled and then the check engine and VSA light came on, car runs fine . Shop got codes 86-1 and 83-1 . not sure whats the issue help!

fmallabykay

Bumping this to say I got check engine light with a p0420. With no experience or the ability to swap the cat myself, I decided to start with half a bottle of sea foam + full tank of 93 fuel. Check engine light disappeared after a mile or so. So big vouch for seafoam here