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Last week I bought a 2nd hand 2002 Acura TL from the 4th owner for $2,400. It work great, and drove very smoothly. This week I noticed that the check engine light was on. I took it to the shop, and the scanned returned with 5 codes. P0300, P0304, P0305, P0306, P1399. They think that it is an ignition coil issue, but charged $115 per coil for OEM parts!
So I ordered 6
Coils @ $33.20 each from Amazon with prime shipping. It should arrive Monday. I plan to replace all the coils and the spark plugs NGK Iridium IX. (Currently they have NGK Platinum)
In the mean time, I was cleaning out the Injectors, crank case, and intake manifolds with Sea Foam. After using sea foam, the temperatures began increasing and reached redline on next driving trip. I have also noticed the A/C loosing potency. I have not used the car since. Is this problem related to the multiple cylinder missfire issue, or is it separate?
I've changed the engine oil after the overheating situation because of the sea foam crank treatment. Has anyone else experienced this issue before?
History:
6/27/2015 Purchased car!
7/1/2015 Transmission Flush
7/1/2015 Transmission Mount Fix
7/2/2015 Transmission Filter Replaced
7/2/2015 CEL On with 5 codes
7/2/2015 Personally inspect coils, noticed 3 bad ones.
7/3/2015 Sea Foam Treatment
7/3/2015 Engine Overheating issue
7/3/2015 A/C begins to lose potency
7/3/2015 Engine Oil and Filter change
Air in the radiator system will cause many problems- ck its level and the res bottle - cap for it has a hose attached inside- it likes to fall off and no transfer can occur
Burping rad is done is several steps- see owner book- free download here Acura Owners Site | Exclusive Knowledge, Service, & Benefits
also call acura care 1 800 382 2238 x5 tell them you are new owner and ask about any recalls that are OPEN - needs to be done, Need cars VIN in hand to give them
RESET ECU after coil install- remove the CLOCK fuse from box on passenger end of dash or their kick panel in footwell- Insert fuse after 1 minute!!
That's the secret backup power to the ECU and clears codes plus does a system scan
When you say flushed trans fluid- did you do a gravity drain and refill or a shop used a machine? What fluid exactly was used Honda DW-1? or some b.s.??
did you try to use seafoam thru master vac port? and the after drive to blow out the crud experienced the overheating?
Has nothing to do with seafoam and everything to do with the fact its not firing correctly = not going to clean the plugs off and they will get fouled!
Overheat= do both rad fans come on with ac On? Does driver side run for 30 seconds and off when sitting at light for extended period of time?
Should never ever go over 1-2 lines below half- always dead steady
Does driver side fan run 10 minutes after engine shutdown?
Buy genuine Honda from dealer thermostat, See our DIY section to install it correctly- can be done wrong a few ways!
Did you try to use seafoam thru master vac port? and the after drive to blow out the crud experienced the overheating? - Yes
Overheat= do both rad fans come on with ac On? - Yes
Does driver side run for 30 seconds and off when sitting at light for extended period of time? - Yes
Does driver side fan run 10 minutes after engine shutdown? - Sometimes
Update:
1. Looking at each of the coils, half seem to have already been replaced before. 3 of them had a darker cleanier color, while the other 3 seems to have some dirt and discoloration. Could another part be causing the coils to go bad?
2. Coolant levels were low. I added 2.5 Liters of water to the resovur. Took a test drive after, and the overheating issues stopped. Temp gage were at below medium levels. AC functionality seems to be running cooler. I still did not notice any leaks. When I took it to the shop earlier in the week, they topped off the system with water already.
Air in the radiator system will cause many problems- ck its level and the res bottle - cap for it has a hose attached inside- it likes to fall off and no transfer can occur
Burping rad is done is several steps- see owner book- free download here Acura Owners Site | Exclusive Knowledge, Service, & Benefits
also call acura care 1 800 382 2238 x5 tell them you are new owner and ask about any recalls that are OPEN - needs to be done, Need cars VIN in hand to give them
RESET ECU after coil install- remove the CLOCK fuse from box on passenger end of dash or their kick panel in footwell- Insert fuse after 1 minute!!
That's the secret backup power to the ECU and clears codes plus does a system scan
When you say flushed trans fluid- did you do a gravity drain and refill or a shop used a machine? What fluid exactly was used Honda DW-1? or some b.s.??
*Hose was still attached
*Will disconnecting negative battery terminal also rest the ECU?
*Shop did the ATF change, they did 3x3 method with "Original"/OES ATF I believe it was DW-1
I can replace the thermostat, but what is causing the fluid to be missing if there are no leaks found?
water pump leaking out the bleed/weep hole on its bottom side
Ck from under car
shop can pressure test system to find leak
DO NOT DRIVE it like this
2.5 liters is a lot of loss! it will get hot again and soon `head gasket blows` will be your next thread
Seafoam for noobs= buy 2 cans, add 1 can to gas tank when a tick below half/8 gal fuel
After a tank or 2 when down just below half- add the 2nd can
That's all you have to do! and its way more effective than vac port, just takes longer
don't forget the TB air plate is a separate cleaning job regardless of seafoam application
Yes neg battery cable removal resets ecu BUT forces you to that laborious entering of 4 or 5 digits to unlock radio security
Not everyone knows their radio code!
Using the clock fuse eliminates that- doesn't affect radio- and protects the battery from human intrusion~ damage to terminals etc.
If you clean the battery terminals while there- ok do that method
otherwise its clock fuse to the rescue!
If you lost that much coolant and no leaks then you might have a blown head gasket. Meaning the coolang went into the oil side and some out the exhaust. Thats the logical explanation to the lost of that much coolant and the misfire... aka rough idle. I hope that's not the case.
Did you happen to see white smoke/steam coming out of the exhaust pipes?
Remove the oil cap and see if there is whitish foam on it; check the oil dip stick for oil water mixture?
NGK $8 each plugs installed? reset the ecu via clock fuse method?
How does it drive with the repairs- regardless of current codes- how does it drive?
your overheat- source of lost coolant need to be found- not just added coolant and now its ok- there is a leak that can mess things up bad!!!! constantly !!!
As noted above- possible to have blown a head gasket depending on how hot and how many times it really happened
You say it was redlined--how bad- length of time and number of events
Thats starting to look like a real possibility as 1 time full red will toast the gasket and if you are lucky it didn't warp the head as well!!
everyone- any temp increase over 1-2 lines below half is reason to shut the car off immediately,!!!!! before 1500 dollars damage is done
NGK $8 each plugs installed? reset the ecu via clock fuse method?
How does it drive with the repairs- regardless of current codes- how does it drive?
your overheat- source of lost coolant need to be found- not just added coolant and now its ok- there is a leak that can mess things up bad!!!! constantly !!!
As noted above- possible to have blown a head gasket depending on how hot and how many times it really happened
You say it was redlined--how bad- length of time and number of events
Thats starting to look like a real possibility as 1 time full red will toast the gasket and if you are lucky it didn't warp the head as well!!
everyone- any temp increase over 1-2 lines below half is reason to shut the car off immediately,!!!!! before 1500 dollars damage is done
Plugs are NGK iridium IX. It runs smooth on cold, then a bit rough when its warmer. Because of this I suspect IVAC clogged. I ordered a pcv replacement because shop recomended.
I do not notice any white smoke. But since coolant is filled with water it should not produce the white smoke in exhaust. I'll check dipstick for water and radiator levels when I get home from work.
Next things on the list to do.
Clean tb
Clean EGR
Clean intake manifold
Clean IVAC
Re-time valves (can this be done as a diy?)
If issue persists, I plan to take it to dealership for inspection and get pressure test, leak down test, compression test. They have computers that scan and record the data.
Who did the valves before- they may not be set right- but that's not your issue right now
runs good cold and bad warm can be a few things
Finding the coolant leak is priority because if its a head gasket- a lot of the things you want to do are along for the ride,,,meaning they come off or gain access while replacing a head gasket
Removing the spark plugs and cranking engine (ign fuse and fp fuse removed)
observe if water/coolant comes spraying out the plug holes
Shops have a few tools to ck for carbon monoxide in the radiator = head gasket blown
does the temp stay dead steady 1-2 lines below half now?
should never vary once warmed up after a few minutes drive!!!
IACV controls IDLE and when clogged does a rev jump from 800- 1500 back and forth
new PCV is always a good idea for us at this age, $20 dealer for the more accurate type than parts stores sell
If the ball doesn't roll inside - crankcase pressure cannot escape so it looks for the next easy exit- usually the rear main oil seal !
So the car is not misfiring anymore after coil pack changes? That's good.
You shouldn't of added just plain water. You should always add Acura or Honda coolant... 50/50 mix water and coolant.
Car still has misfire codes even after getting all new spark plugs and ignition coils.
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
Yes, use the good stuff from Mother Honda
Who did the valves before- they may not be set right- but that's not your issue right now
runs good cold and bad warm can be a few things
Finding the coolant leak is priority because if its a head gasket- a lot of the things you want to do are along for the ride,,,meaning they come off or gain access while replacing a head gasket
Removing the spark plugs and cranking engine (ign fuse and fp fuse removed)
observe if water/coolant comes spraying out the plug holes
Shops have a few tools to ck for carbon monoxide in the radiator = head gasket blown
does the temp stay dead steady 1-2 lines below half now?
should never vary once warmed up after a few minutes drive!!!
Issue still persists after cleaning EGR, Intake Manifold, IACV with throttle body and carb cleaner.
Car is now in the shop for further inspection. They will check for overheating (should be pressure tested and such). We will go from there.
Temp does stay dead steady after 1-2 lines below half now once I add water. The thermostat seems to be working properly. When car start cold, only the upper radiator hoses are warm. Later when the engine warms up, then the lower radiator hoses become warm. Meaning thermostat valve has opened!
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
IACV controls IDLE and when clogged does a rev jump from 800- 1500 back and forth
new PCV is always a good idea for us at this age, $20 dealer for the more accurate type than parts stores sell
If the ball doesn't roll inside - crankcase pressure cannot escape so it looks for the next easy exit- usually the rear main oil seal !
PCV is enroute ordered via Amazon. I'll need to get car back from shop before installing.
ck the heater valve- its in the engine compartment on the firewall in front of passenger area
That likes to get stuck- some WD takes care of the problem
BUT
If you are losing coolant and no heat I would suspect valve oring seal leakage-
hard to see if not looking for it, and most people wouldn't!
Make sure the actual tech working on the car gets this information Monday morning
also possible heater core leak- but you did not mention a sickly sweet smell in the cabin and wet carpet on passenger foot area
That's coolant leak smell
The shop said that they smelled coolant coming from the exhaust, and there is no leaking fluids. The engine also makes knocking sounds.
They think its a blow head gasket, and the internal pistons and valves may have some damages because of the knocking sound. They recommend that I replace the entire engine. Looks like the nightmare has come alive!
I went around and got several quotes. This first one is from a performance motor shop "Ishii Motor Industries" They are fairly reputable in the area and have high yelp and google ratings. They want $4000 and it includes replacing many gaskets, timing belt, water pump, hoses, and the works.
The second shop is also fairly reputable "Stingray Auto Repair" (192 reviews on yelp with average of 4.5) and they want $3,000. It includes replacing timing belt, water pump, and crucial gaskets to do a good job. Break down of price is:
The third option is "Dere Auto" they are a local Asian automotive repair shop. This does not include timing belt replacement or water pump.
Labor: $1000-$1200 (14-16 Hours @ $80/hour)
JDM Engine: $400 (Sourcing myself! from local reputable shop)
Net Total $1800-$2000
The Fourth Option: hire local mechanics that does not have a repair shop but has been working on Honda and Acuras for 7 years as a tech to do the swap.
$600 labor
$400 JDM Engine I'll source it! (comes with 1 year parts warranty. Labor warranty is $45 for $300 & $90 for $600)
About $1200 - $1500 after getting all other parts
Fifth Option: Find someone what has mechanical experience to help me with the engine swap, or do it my self.
JDM Engine: $400
Labor/bribe: $300-$400??
Total $700 - $800
If I choose to do it myself or get help, which gaskets and parts should I replace? Is it hard to do an engine swap? Mechanics quote about 16-20 hours for the swap!
see threads by fsttyms1 with pics of pulling the engine out
Total waste of time to deal with any shop that wants to rebuild your motor!!!
that's crazy talk if its got overheat-blown head gasket rod knock and who knows what else- if coolant has been getting into the oil - that will destroy bearings and make a lot of noise
as new owner you have no idea how long this has been going on, or would know why the car was so cheap
Get a used- junkyard-auto dismantler engine and install the timing belt and water pump kit
easy to adjust valves and do the egr cleaning etc while its out of the car
If interested in a manual trans- this is the time to drop in a complete CL-S engine and trans together
The shop should have tools to determine if carbon monoxide is in the coolant
White smoke or coolant smell in exhaust combined with ongoing coolant loss points to head gasket-
There are several easy test so its not a guessing game- unless they are trying to bend you over~ A simple look at the sparkplugs will tell you whats up!
A sample of oil sent to blackstone labs will confirm
reading 1st post again, this car obviously had problems for a while- that's why it was so cheap- owner knew it was bad, got the ridiculous estimates and dumped it.
Does the trans still work good- Do you know what to look for in trans operation?
If the trans has problems too- time to sell the car off for parts...
or you will own a $10,000 car worth 4 grand
anyone who doesn't recommend timing belt and water pump plus the other
`105kmiles major service` parts = doesn't belong near your car
That's just suicide to not replace the most important part!!
timing belt failure or any of its tensioners fail, and that's it for the engine- total loss right now!!
OMG!! that first estimate wants $200 for fuel injector cleaning = we use seafoam -$20
and $18.60 EACH for spark plugs,,that cost 8 bucks each at any parts store!
That `shop supplies and haz waste fee` of 89$ is outrageous for some red rags and a can of carb cleaner, dumping 2 gal coolant and 5 qts of oil should not cost 90 bucks- based on a percentage of total bill = what a freakin ripoff!
While this TL has been beat up from the previous owner, I really like this car even thought I have only been driving it for a weeks. It has incredible power, and is comfortable in any situation. I'll spend the money and time fixing her up, just not several thousands!
I found a friend that can do the engine swap for $500. He has repaired many Supra's with turbo chargers on his spare time and engine swapping is his expertise! I'll just get the JDM engine with 1 year parts and labor warranty for a total of $550 after tax. They do free shipping too!
Is there anything I should be aware about on the JDM engine swap? Any switches or sensors that might not be compatible?
When installing the engine should I replace any other components besides "Aisin TKH-001 Engine Timing Belt Kit with Water Pump"? Would replacing the Gaskets for Intake, exaust, EGR, etc be a good idea too? I was looking into the Fel-Pro Kit for about $200. What about the serpentine belts? Are there more than one? So far I have 2 on my list.
Bando 6PK1175
Bando 4PK1110
I have not noticed any issues with the transmission. It feels fairly smooth and I do not notice any "Jerky" moments when accelerating.
As for the manual transmission and engine swap, I think I will hold of on that. This is my first time "dissecting" a car and looking for fixes!
01tl4tl & 01acls thank you both for your insight. I see that you two are very active in the community helping other TL owners. Thank you so much for your continued effort!
OMG!! that first estimate wants $200 for fuel injector cleaning = we use seafoam -$20
and $18.60 EACH for spark plugs,,that cost 8 bucks each at any parts store!
That `shop supplies and haz waste fee` of 89$ is outrageous for some red rags and a can of carb cleaner, dumping 2 gal coolant and 5 qts of oil should not cost 90 bucks- based on a percentage of total bill = what a freakin ripoff!
They are a performance parts store that does work thoroughly, so I guess they can justify the price premium. For us normal worker bee's, its out of our budget reach!
JDM motors are a problem for the TL iirc as its not a JDM car! not made for export (made in usa) to Japan. Do some research on that vs a crashed TL engine
Its different for something like the TSX, is JDM all the way- more goodies for it etc
gaskets- you need to replace intake and exhaust - egr, dipstick oring etc, as those parts use 1 time gaskets, some of them crush when bolts are torqued, that's part of the seal
rear main oil seal too. and every belt tensioner or idler/roller pulley
There are hundreds of threads on this subject already
WHO has the facts on JDM motor use in TL?? swap GURU's?
How can your car run strong but have a blown head gasket- the 2 don't meet
You need to know what happens when spark plugs are removed and engine cranked- with pressure tester applied to radiator- if there is a leak it will show up somewhere!
When shops are baffled or don't want to work on your car = they make unrealistic estimates and hope you go away
If the trans does go- you don't know what to look for yet, a used one from certain Hondas does work and drops in
Prior to installing a use motor always do a compression check first to confirm the motor has good compression. Otherwise you could be back in the same situation you're now.
Inaddition to above change both main oil seals, the coolant thermostat and gasket.
Make it easy for your mechanic... get the correct motor when possible. Same make/model/series of motor. Nobody want to be doing mods when their paid to do an easy engine swap. When in doubt ask your mechanic what he wants to do. Keep him in the loop.
How do you compression ck an engine sitting on a shipping pallet?
seriously, I want to know!
One from crashed TL in the junkyard/auto dismantling and recycling place, will have compression readings taken before its removed from the car.
They don't want to sell you a unit that's going to come back as failed, and you pissed off~
"Prior to installing". Meaning at your own facility. Hot wire the starter. Just cranking it not trying to run it. For those that don't know how that means positive to positive and negative to negative. Very important.
To save money some shade tree mechanics pull there own motors so not everyone will have compression readings.
If motor came with readings then you can use those if you want.
According to some Acuraziners you can tell a motors condition by using Blackstone to analyze the motor oil. However, I would strongly recommend against this method because I have never heard of someone tearing down a motor because of a bad fluild analysis. I mean Blackstone is awesome for analyzing fluilds but it's awesomely useless. Whats the point in analyzing the fluid if you still have to confirm by doing a compression check?
And still others can tell just by looking at the part and just check the condition of the fluild by the dip stick. I'm pretty sure this will work weather the motor is sitting on the pallet or the ground.
JDM motors are a problem for the TL iirc as its not a JDM car! not made for export (made in usa) to Japan. Do some research on that vs a crashed TL engine
Its different for something like the TSX, is JDM all the way- more goodies for it etc
gaskets- you need to replace intake and exhaust - egr, dipstick oring etc, as those parts use 1 time gaskets, some of them crush when bolts are torqued, that's part of the seal
rear main oil seal too. and every belt tensioner or idler/roller pulley
There are hundreds of threads on this subject already
WHO has the facts on JDM motor use in TL?? swap GURU's?
How can your car run strong but have a blown head gasket- the 2 don't meet
You need to know what happens when spark plugs are removed and engine cranked- with pressure tester applied to radiator- if there is a leak it will show up somewhere!
When shops are baffled or don't want to work on your car = they make unrealistic estimates and hope you go away
If the trans does go- you don't know what to look for yet, a used one from certain Hondas does work and drops in
It will sometimes run choppy when the engine is hot (making some rattle/shaking)
Originally Posted by 01acls
Prior to installing a use motor always do a compression check first to confirm the motor has good compression. Otherwise you could be back in the same situation you're now.
Inaddition to above change both main oil seals, the coolant thermostat and gasket.
Make it easy for your mechanic... get the correct motor when possible. Same make/model/series of motor. Nobody want to be doing mods when their paid to do an easy engine swap. When in doubt ask your mechanic what he wants to do. Keep him in the loop.
Will do sir! I have all the parts en route and it should arrive by Friday!
I'm going to check out and order the engine tomorrow. Should I go with the JDM, or one of these locally at a salvage yard? I fear JDM engines might have radioactive isotopes that can cause longer term health problems. (Fukushima aftermath)
On a side note, which one would you guys usually stick with? The JDM has good warranty(1year parts & labor for $550) and they all have been compression tested and steam cleaned.
"The Engines are Compression tested in Japan.
After compression testing, the engines are Steam Cleaned in Japan.
When unloading the container we double check the Quality of the Used Engine.
Finally when we sell the engine we check again by turning the crankshaft to verify compression. " Foreign Engines - Frequently Asked Questions
07-04-2015, 12:25 AM
