NE14RoxCJ

So my rear main seal mysteriously started pouring oil out after a simple trip to the dealer to have the PS hose recall done. Riverside Acura of Little Rock, AR. I took the car back to them after they left the PS reservoir loose and it lodged itself against the pulleys and developed a large hole emptying the fluid all over the right side of my engine. They replaced the reservoir and (half-ass) cleaned up the mess. I finished the clean up and drove the car to work. When I got home from work that night, I smelled oil burning again. I figured I had more cleaning to do. Next day, I find this:



So I broke out the jack and stands and removed the plastic under the engine.







So I was convinced to call the service manager at Riverside Acura in Little Rock, AR. He told me to bring the car in and they would take a look at it. I got a call later that evening from the advisor I had been dealing with. He said that the rear main seal is leaking, but it was not from anything they had done. He said normally it is a ~$1500 job, BUT since I have had nothing but problems with my first visit to their dealership, they would lower their labor rate to $23/hr. 12 hour of work. That, he said, would make it $1123. Not sure where he got his education, but that makes for a REALLY expensive seal. I told him I'd let him know first thing in the morning.

SO, I showed up at the dealership arund 9am and went straight to the parts counter. I asked for some HondaBond HT sealant and three bottles of PS fluid. Yep, I'm doing it myself and Delray Acura (AcuraOEMparts.com) doesn't list fluids and such. The service advisor noticed his loaner sitting in the drive and didn't know I had come in. I asked him to bring my car around because I'm taking it home. That was Tuesday of last week. I had to clear out some room in the shop and get my engine hoist from my buddy so I didn't get started good until Friday. By Monday morning, I had the transmission on the floor and the rear main seal in my hand. Waiting for parts to arrive, but I had to go to work Mondy afternoon.

NE14RoxCJ

Battery and air cleaner removed


Subframe on the shop floor


Engine/trans held up by hoist


Transmission sitting on the leg of the engine hoist


And the culprit



Ah, the bitter divorce


Notice the torque converter removed. I changed the o-ring for good measure. I also "changed" most of the fluid in the torque converter.

NE14RoxCJ

So the car is back together now and I drove it to work this afternoon. I took a couple of test drives to make sure everything was OK before taking off to work. I noticed that I put the steering wheel on one spline off, so I'll be removing it and straightening that out tomorrow. I'll probably get to the alignment shop Saturday and get everything checked since I had the entire front suspension and steering apart. I figure I'm out about $200-250 altogether. About $130 of that was nuts, bolts, seals, gaskets, and o-rings. Oh, that rear main seal cost $7.88. I bought two just in case. I replaced everything the service manual said to replace. I spent a little more for some tools to help with the job, and I'll spend a little more on the alignment. I'll update the thread with some pics of the "clean" underside of my car if the weather permits. I still haven't installed the plastic splash guard. We have a bit of winter weather rolling in tonight, so I'll get back to it when I can.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

damn....seems like so much for a part thats 7 dollars. what a bitch. how many miles do have on the car? have you heard of this happening to anyone else? what would cause that seal to go bad?

theloweman

Wow... cool update man. I was wondering how your RM seal replacement was going.. Glad to hear you got it all put back together. I have owned alot of hondas overs the years and have NEVER seen a leaking rear main seal, ever. What was the hardest part of the transmission removal install?? Was removing that sub frame a PIA?

NE14RoxCJ

I have 121k miles on my car. I, too, never expected the rear main to leak. I don't know what caused the leak, but it didn't start slowly. The car was dry under there before I took it to Riverside Acura in Little Rock, AR. I've owned a few vehicles myself and even seen a few rear mains leak and they NEVER stared pouring oil like that after another seemingly un-related repair. The leaks always started slowly, leavig a drop or two here and there. There's another thread from last summer where a member posted pics of a slow leak in the same area. He says that his hasn't gotten any worse, but also said he DID have the power steering hose recall done not too long before he noticed the leak.

The hardest part?? Those DAMN ball joints. The rest was pretty much cake. Just followed the FSM slowly and marked each step as I went. The right CV axle wouldn't come off of the intermediate shaft, so I finally took the intermediate shaft off and swung the whole thing out of the way. The steering wheel also gave me fits. The threaded holes for the puller are not very deep. I ended up pulling the threads out of both holes and had to go buy a Heli-Coil kit to put some good threads in there and get the wheel off. Then, to top it off, I have to remove the wheel again because I got it one spline off and it's cocked to the left.

VanGuy

I'm no honda tech but this happened to me when I had my 2007 TL Base inspected before I bought it used. Luckily it was found and the vehicle was sent for warranty work on the rear main seal. They said it would be a $900 job if I had to pay. They repaired the seal and noted that all 8 of the 9? bolts were stripped! To me this can only mean one thing unfortunately... poor assembly quality. I'm not sure if the engine & transmission is assembled in Japan or Ohio USA but I was very disappointed to hear of something like this from honda.

The Big Dog!

Nice repair job! I like to work on cars but this was over my head. Would never get everything back together!

NE14RoxCJ

It was a good time as long as I kept reminding myself of the money I was saving. And also remember to not think of the fact that I never had a leak before letting Riverside Acura do my p/s hose recall.

FLYNSHU

I too just had my PS hose recall done! What do you know? I was just told I have a RM seal leak!! WTF? Is this a dealership scam or something? I have never had a prob w my car at all. My warranty ran out last month!

Im a little concerned that this is a little too coincidental!?!

Any thoughts?

PShep

There are a few reports of rear main seals leaking soon after this sort of work. Mine ended up leaking within a couple of days of having the transmission in my 03 TL replaced under warranty. After a year, and finding out that the mechanic who did the job was unlicensed, the Acura dealership finally agreed to replace it at the cost of fluid and the seal.

I hate cars

Check the PCV system, particularly the valve and the fresh air inlet on the air intake hose that goes between the throttlebody and air filter. They probably kinked this hose which will cause a pressure buildup and oil leak.

alex7

^ that sucks if it was due to this ... I suspect that my dealership does things like this deliberately. (South Coast Acura in OC, Ca) My TL only has 84k, but honestly, everytime I go in they find something, especially lately. Just today, they say the front main seal is leaking .. well, it surely wasnt leaking anything before as I just did an alignment, front brakes, and brake fluid swap and did not see any oil leaking. Now all of a sudden, theres a leak. BS.

cerritos

How did you find out the mechanic was not licensed?
I'm having the same issue.

jahjahcity

The dealerships and many mechanic shops either intensionally or unintensionally screw other items up while your car is in their hands.

Case in point 1: I went to the Acura Dealership in Timonium, MD to get my seatbelt recall taken care of, nothing was wrong with the car when I took it in. But leaving out my front lights kept turning on and off randomly while driving. I told them that I'd never had that problem before...so they offered to fix it for $500+. I took the risk and drive it to my brother's house. He poped the hood and said that the connection wire was loose, fixed it in less than one minute for $0.

Case in point 2: Took my acura in to get the timing belt replaced and came out with a grinding bearing that once again was not happening beforehand and again with a high priced quote. My brother took off my wheel and they had something touching, wasn't anything wrong with my bearings.

Case in point 3: Took my car there because the AC wasn't working, would have been a $700 replacement. My brother charged it up with an autozone leak repair over 6 years ago and still blowing cool air now.

I saw this post as I was researching whether I was getting a fair deal for replacement of my transmission front seal on my 2000 Acura 3.2 TL...and just had to share!

trance957

Your brother is Da Bomb man

wb12859

I have to say I had the same problem when I took my 2004 TSX in for the power steering hose replacement. I had 202000 miles on the car with no leaks except the power steering hose. They fixed it and was amazed at how many miles I had on it. I told them I had no major problems since I bought it with 85000 miles.

wb12859

fat fingered the keys....as I was saying I was driving to work and stopped at a light and I could smell burning oil, I thought it was the car next to me so I blew it off. Coming home that day again at a light I could smell oil burning. The next morning I noticed a little oil on the drive, damn it. I took it to my mechanic and he found the rear main seal leaking and they said they could replace it for 800.00. After reading these other threads it makes me wonder if their sabotaging our vehicles. This happened at John Eagle in Houston

nfnsquared

^^^no, it's because when they jack the engine to do the PS safety recall, it screws up the seal.

I'd give it a little time. The same thing happened to me after the PS recall, but it went away on it's own.

GOOSEej

iTrader: (2)

Im in this boat right now I dont know if my TL has the PS done. ive checked doesnt say it was ever done for my car. Tho my main seal is leaking i will have to repair this myself. I hope its as easy and the OP made it seem.

wb12859

Why would they jack the engine up to replace the PS hose?

flyromeo3

I was thinking the same thing.

nfnsquared

Read the TSB: 08-16

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-016-a-613659/

wb12859

Thanks for the list but when I open the TSB link it said I'm not authorized to view contents on this page. I can view other TSBs

nfnsquared

You have to follow ALL of the instructions in RED

NE14RoxCJ

GOOSE, it's not "easy" by any means. It takes a good bit of tools and equipment. I did mine on my shop floor with a couple of floor jacks, jack stands, engine hoist, air tools, etc. It's much easier on a lift, but you have to be careful were you position lift arms since the whole subframe has to come down either with or without the engine/trans assembly on it. Some people hang the engine from the top and drop the subframe and remove the transmission from the engine. Or you can drop the engine trans out with the subframe and split the two apart away from the car. It all depends on the tools/area you have and personal preference.

Things to do while you're there? Completely drain and refill the transmission including removing the torque converter and draining/refilling it. So, replace the trans input seal before you slide the torque converter back in. 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. Transmission cartridge filter (04-06, I think?)

And like IHC said almost 4 years ago, check/replace/clean your PCV valve and passages. I agree that excessive crankcase pressure can cause all kinds of oil leaks.

Now, 5 years later, my oil pump seal is leaking on the other end of the engine. Luckily its close to time for another timing belt change.

Pegon95

Does anyone know how many hours it should take for a shop to do this job? one shop told me it takes 10 hours by the book... because if it doesn't i really want to know if i can bargain with them a little bit over price...

nfnsquared

Not totally sure, but I think that's a little on the high side (~$900 labor to replace a $9 part).

How bad is it leaking? If it's not bad, I'd just wait a while and see if it goes away on it's own. It's been known to happen.

babylou772

It's crazy to see how many people found out about their rear main seal after getting their PS hose checked. I just got back from the dealership no too long ago because I had a PS leak and wanted to check if the recall was done. Hour or so later they came back with a list of problems that also included my rear main seal.

polobunny

Because it's not easy to detect for the untrained eye or the "basic" DIY'er. The dealership calls the shot even when it's barely seeping. That's fine, but most of the time even though it's seeping it can go a long way before it starts actually dripping and being a concern.

nfnsquared

Which dealership? I assume you mean Ryan Honda since there's not an Acura dealership in town? I think their service department is a bit shady and/or a bunch of idiots. They told me that the entire AC compressor had to be replaced if the clutch went bad.

Was the recall already done?

If you don't have oil on the ground after sitting, I wouldn't worry about it for now.

I hate cars

Mine no longer leaks at the rear main. I'm not sure what or how it stopped. Sometimes they just stop. There are two things that changed. I began running Redline 0w-40 oil year round instead of their 5w-30 and the air pipe from the air filter to the throttlebody had a tear in it which was fixed when I did my timing belt a year or so ago. The fresh air inlet for the PCV system goes to that hose but the hose should have no real vacuum on it because the air filter poses pretty much no restriction. Maybe just the fast moving air over the inlet of the fresh air hose pulls a slight vacuum but the tear in the throttlebody hose was small and I doubt it leaked much if at all.


So basically I don't know why it stopped leaking. It could have been the thicker oil, the intake pipe. It might have been an improperly diagnosed rear main when it was really a valvecover bolt or gasket which were all replaced during the timing belt replacement. Maybe it was the new PCV valve but the old one was perfect. All I know is I confirmed it was bone dry after changing the oil two days ago and it was dry the last time I changed oil a year ago after doing the timing belt and valve adjustment.

babylou772

It was at the dealership I bought my car from here in FL. Really nice place, they hooked me up with free delivery up to ND when I first bought my car. I need to change my location, I left ND a little over 2 years ago. And yes the recall was done already, I remember I looked it up after I joined this forum in 2010 and learned of the website where I could check. I didn't remember if it got done or not so I stopped by so they could check. Come to find out my PS pump is leaking not the hose itself. There isn't any oil on the ground so I will hold off for now and periodically check my oil level to make sure I'm not losing any. On top of the leaking PS pump I found out my motor mount was cracked, my compliance bushings need to be changed, and Battery is dyeing which is weird because I bought a brand new one maybe 3 years ago. Just a list of things to do on top of the Timing Belt Service. Fun days ahead.

babylou772

True, I was just surprised to see the same thing happen to multiple people after going in for their PS hose. I went in with a PS leak and walked out with a list of other problems I had no idea about.

ttvegas2002

Same thing happened to me, replaced the front and side motor mount and couple days later I noticed rear main seal leak. I left it alone and some how the leak went away on its own.

redup

One year ago my local Acura Service advised I had a rear main seal leak. Interesting this followed a very recent power steering fluid service? I was told it was only an adversary as soon I would see oil under the car, but it could be repaired for $1800.00. I've had the car in several times over the past year for service and inspection and this was never noted. Just took the car in for new tires today and was again told that the rear main was leaking. This time I was told that I would not see the leak as there is a shield holding the leaking oil in, but they could see the shield warping. I sure am confused as to what action to take, have it repaired or wait. Thank you.

nfnsquared

Was it the PS safety recall that was done?

What a rip off. The part is only $9 and the labor charge should only be ~$900-$1000. Those guys are crooks.

Again, idiots and crooks. What a crock of shit. Unless/until you see oil on the ground after sitting overnight or you notice excessive oil consumption, tell them to stick it.

Mrgoodwrench

Some of you sound like childeren speaking of things you don't understand. 99% of technicians are not crooks. Dealerships do NOT purposely sabotage your car. That's a ridiculous notion.

1. Technicians do NOT have licenses, there is no such thing. Not in any of the 8 states I've lives in anyway. Most dealership tech's are certified, either ASE or manufacturer specific certs. Maybe you meant he didn't have a drivers license? Doubtful.

2. The power steering recall in no way involves jacking up your engine. I don't care what the TSB says, that's not how we do it. Nothing done during the PS recall would effect your rear main seal. Except maybe some porter ripping high rpm's on the car when its cold (which is the most likely scenario). The porters that check cars in and sometimes bring them inside for the tech's are usually idiot teenagers with lead feet.

3. The reason dealership tech's are so expensive is usually due to the fact that we are well educated, trained, have 50k + in tools and we do $&it right!! Nobody's perfect, but most of us are pretty damn close. We also know things.....like you don't have to remove the rear section of subframe to remove the engine/trans. The steering wheel? Really? Engine and tranny can be out in less than 2 hours if you do it right. Mine is out right now. Took it out after work last night. Changing the rear main.

4. I really don't have a 4th point. Other than some of you should try maybe owning up to your own problems instead of blaming them on the 'evil stealerships'. Like any profession, there are bad apples. Don't blame us all for the mistakes of the few. The majority of you had leaking rear main seals before you went to the dealership, you just didn't notice.

And yes, if your ac clutch goes bad and you run it that way too long, your compressor should be changed as well. The excess heat damages the head seal in the comp.

voiddweller510

NE14RoxCJ - Thanks for the awesome pics and write up! I'll be doing this when I replace my clutch.

I think my AC clutch just went out. It was making noise for over a year and the local Acura dealer said it was supposed to be loud. I appreciate the insight regarding the head seal. Should I replace it when I do the AC clutch or just get both new? The OEM replacement for the compressor and AC clutch are pretty pricey. Suggestions on a good quality alternative?

Thanks!

nfnsquared

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...stions-946195/