KJSmitty

If the problem really is an exhaust system resonance issue wouldn't it be logical that repositioning the exhaust, even a small amount, would change the harmonics etc...? I sure hope this is a long term fix for those effected.
Currently my 04TL has very little "drone" vibration so I probably won't make any adjustments just yet.
I have my fingers crossed for those with worse "vibes" though.

rets

We're wondering why Acura takes so long to figure this out if this is really the "exhaust resonance" issue. We will know more if this is the official fix/TSB or just the dealers' fix in following weeks. Well, we'll never know what exactly Acura is thinking or trying to do.


BTW, I'm not sure how many ppl have to drive at 50-55 MPH for the most of time once you hit onto the highway. (My 04TL early build has the slight/minor vibration, characteristic trait of Acura (3G) vehicle??) I start to feel uncomfortable with this NOISE a week ago, our highway's traffic and speed limit keep me staying with this damn range. SS mode! Right, my 4th gear is smooth... (I was driving Legend in past month, this comparison makes me irked)

DanL

iTrader: (2)

Here are two pics with the bolt on each end of the bracket circled. The bracket is about four inches long and runs from the oil pan to the head pipe. Each end is attached with a 12mm bolt. All I did was loosen each of he bolts, move the bracket a little, and tighten them back up. I still have no idea why it worked though..all I know is that at least on my TL it did. Once you get the car up on ramps or jacks, the whole thing will take all of 45 seconds -- it's that easy. Use a plain ol' 12mm wrench. I tried a swivel socket first and it was nearly impossible to get to the bolts.

TomN

Hi Lroche,

Do you have an 04 or 05 TL ? My O4-TL also has the humming/buzzing noise and vibration around 1500-2000 RPMs. So I will ask my local Acura to try the fix. My car was built in 4/04.

Extremely disappointed w/ Honda/Acura because it was my first Honda buy and I felt they treated me and I guess some of us like idiots. After many calls and service test drives, I am ready to sell my TL but I will try the fix as last effort.
Unfortunately, unless it is a safety issue, Honda won't do a thing.

I am new here so thanks to many helpful tips on this forum.

druz04TL

i'm a new member and i have a 2004 abp 5at tl after reading all of the postings i am going to start paying more attention to how my car is driving. I've noticed a kind of vibration around 50-60 mph but i didn't think any of it, i tought it was normal because this is the first car i've owned that cost over $30000. n/e ways i just wanted to say thanks for bringing this to my attention.

lroche

TomN, I have a 04 TL, built in 2/04. 1 week after the fix and still no shaking/vabriton.

bfogarty

I plan on trying it this weekend on my 05. Those that have done it----Do you think a rubber washer on both bolts would help?

terse

hmm...i don't understand...all i have to do is loosen move and tighten?

rets

Me, neither. If it's simple like this, Acura prolly would be the stupidest agent spending tons of $$$ and still getting no answers yet.


However, I'd like to wait and see how my dealer will respond in my next service in April.


Thanks for all the update, guys...

mickey3c

Sounds pretty stupid if you ask me. Acura should be checking the fittings and the method they use to install the exhaust. I think they are not really checking that hard since it is not as important as some other issues.

And if this is the first time you have owned a car that is worth 30K or more, those noises are not normal.

dheel

I decided to give it a shot this afternoon and see if adjusting the bolt/bracket would help. It's in a really tight spot abd the bolts seemed to be fairly tight from factory. On one bolt I actually had to slip on the wrench then use a rubber hammer to hit the wrench to loosen. The bracket had right much play after loosening, it could move some sideways and up and down. Mine seemed to be from factory in down postion so I just moved it as far up as I could and re-tightened. Drove the car for a few miles and definately does seem to be a lot better. Adjusted speed in 50-60 range, normally it would be hard to keep at 55 without vibration, didn't notice much at all now. Will have to test more later, especially on inclines where it is usually more noticeable. Amazed still how this adjustment could have and effect.

terse

I wonder if I could print this out and take it to the dealer and ask them to do what you guys are saying

Ron A

Ctrl/P
OK
Take to dealer

Sounds like a good idea to me. Good luck.

rets

terse, I think you should add this into your list now...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110589


Bring the vivid pics, too...

dheel

Drove car again this morning. Still seems better but still has that lull/drone-like feel. Vibration in 50-60 range does seem better though. I know one street I drive regularly that has an incline and normally feel the 50-60 vibration, drove it this morning as well and still noticed slight vibration.

rvmeush

My car is scheduled to go back to Tischer Acura tonight so they can try to fix for good the headliner droop problem. They said that Acura gave them some specific instructions on re-gluing the fastener to the roof. We'll see what happens.

I'm also taking instructions and pictures from this thread so they can try to do the vibration fix as well. I've got my fingers crossed, and will report back on how it goes.

mickey3c

Get your grandchild's glue stick out and do it yourself...

mporter410

Ok... decided to give the bracket trick a try today. I have the 6MT, roadforced tires and still get the vibration from 75 on up. Anyway, as I loosen the bracket today to reposition it. I noticed that the exhaust is rock solid and will not move wo I started wondering just what the bracket was supposed to do. After scratching my head for a few minutes I just decided to take it off. Besides it can't cause a vibration if it's not there! And I also figured that I would be taking a wild arse guess on where to reposition it.

Well....It worked! I took the car on on I-95 and no vibration from 0 to 90+ mph. I can't believe this small bracket makes that much difference. I don't even know why it was installed on the car. At any rate I plan on leaving it off as long as it doesn't do any harm and I don't have the vibrations.

Ron A

Page 19-300 in the service manual says if you remove the bracket and leave it off, you will get warts. Not really, but can you tell us if the bracket you took off is in the picture below, which might help us identify what it really does.

Click here for the parts list.

DanL

iTrader: (2)

..except the bracket isn't shown.

KJSmitty

Wow, I'm not doubting you but it would be amazing if this bracket, let alone something on the the exhaust system caused vibration at speeds above say 70..
My 04 TL (I don't think) does not have any significant 1500-2000 rpm vibration but it has had the over 70 mph tire vibration "feel". I have always felt this was due to the "bad" EL-42's. I too have had them balanced several times (roadforce no less) with no relief. My plan was to replace the tires in the future.
If this "bracket removal/adjustment remotely fixes the/my vibe,,,,, like I said - I will be happily "amazed"....

Very interesting...

mporter410

The bracket is the one identified in the pictures posted by DanL.

mporter410

Dude...I am was a sceptic too. But, after removing the bracket I can tell you the vibration is gone. At least on my test drive. Because my vibration problem was somewhat intermittent (it happened every day, just not all the time) I want to see what happens in the next couple of days. I will tell you that after removing the bracket my test drive was the first time I have driven the car without any vibration so I am encouraged.

Another thought...I first noticed the vibration after I replaced the stock wheels and put on the K&N Typhoon CAI. I was thinking it was the wheels all along (hence the reason I had them Roadforce balances), however, given that removing the bracket has seemed to solve my vibration problem, I am wondering if the CAI contributed to the exhaust resonance because of the increased airflow? Any thoughts?

rvmeush

After taking my TL in for servicing of the headliner and adjustment of the exhaust bracket I'm sorry to report that the vibration is still present. I left instructions on the bracket adjustment along with pictures from this thread, and I am assuming that the dealer did what I requested - at least they seemed willing to help. It seems to me that the vibration is a bit different than it was before, but it's still there in the 50-60 mph range. I'll be interested to see if others think that removing the bracket helps, but at this point I'm not sure what else to try.

Oh well, at least the headliner appears fixed.

rets

This adjustment seems a little hard to get it done in first try. Perhaps, your dealer tech needs to test-drive a few times before finally tightening those two bolts.

maddog136

I've studied the photos that have been posted and I beleive the bracket that RonA and DanL have been referring to supports the rear "Warm up Three Way Cataylic Converter" otherwise known as "WU-TWC" from service manual diagram 11-282 and online parts catalog, item P/N: 11941-RCA-A00 description: STAY, CONVERTER...see item 001 in the parts catalog link i've included.

http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnysi...All&vinsrch=no

I dont have a severe vibe problem but I'll try adjusting or removing it on my next oil change this week to see if it changes anything. My biggest problem are my flatspotting Pirelli's.

Could some one post the parts catalog diagram from the link for all to see... I can't figure that one out!

rets

maddog136

Thanks RETS! Bracket item 001, one end is attached to the bottom flange on the rear WU/TWC item 008, the other end to the engine block. The rear WU/TWC attaches to the pipe- item 006 on the part diagram posted earlier.

BenM

I have had two separate vibration issues. One was a high pitched "buzz" at about 2200 RPM. My dealer identified the problem and solved it by replacing the half shaft heat shield. Is that related to the bracket mentioned here? The other vibration is the 1500 RPM/50MPH/5th gear "resonance " feel, especially under a steady throttle on a slight upgrade. That remains unresolved.

I talked with the tech who has tried loosening the engine mounts, running the engine and letting it settle back in. He said this has worked on some; didn't work for me. Can you tell me which problem the exhaust bracket is related to??

Thanks !!

maddog136

Yesterday I got under the car to check this bracket. One end of this bracket (bolt #018 in the last diagram) is bolted to the engine crankcase, near the oil drain plug. To anyone attempting to adjust this bracket, use caution when removing or retorquing bolt #18. If you damage the crankcase here you may have a major problem, and a possible oil leak if the case cracks. Popping bolts like this should be done with the car on a lift on a cold system. Repositioning exhaust parts is best done this way, so there is no torque on the chassis from lifting from less than all four corners. I would take the car to Acura to attempt this. If they do not want to do it under warranty, You may have to pay them to do it. Then if all improves afterwards you should have a good case for reimbursement! For now, I am holding off on moving this this bracket.

rets

The infamous 1500 RPM/5th gear/50-55 MPH exhaust resonance... As your tech said... this method may work on some cars... they need to twist and adjust many times...

Wildcat Jon

Anyone else gone through lemon laws/arbitration on the vibration issue? I'm going down that path myself and wondered if anyone besides bloom had any experience.

GTFISH

Wildcat,
I went down that route and got the dealer to take the car back on trade. Some poor guy has that vibrating rattling POS.

BigBokey

I'm going throught the process right now. I mailed my package out on Monday (03/07/05), so I should hear from them some time next week. The way is see it, is that I have nothing to lose, so I might as well try. It's free. I love the car, and wouldn't trade it for a G35 (nice car, but not as much features and not quiet), Lexus GS300 (too expensive), BMW (I don't do German). Just my personal preference.

By the way, I have that resonance / vibration between 50/60 MPH.
I'll let you guys know the outcome.

Wildcat Jon

Thanks alot. I have an early build and have documented the identical vibration issues as bloom with both the dealer and ACS on numerous occasions. I had early morning cold weather issues with the original EL42s, the same issue with the 50-60 and then 70 and up vibration, with both EL42s, the "recompounded" EL42s and now even with the LS-Zs. After a recent rotation of the tires, it is even worse.

I loved the car even before it was available, have told everyone how awesome a value it is, etc., and now . . . I find myself upset with my decision. Heck, I purchased the Acura for reliability vs. BMW. Now I'm kicking myself for buying a first year build. However, I will pursue this vigorously. Lemon laws in Ohio are very consumer-friendly -- 3 times and no fix, you have a lemon. I've had 3 sets of tires, 4 times into the dealer, 2 times into Bridgestone, and no fix.

Big - did you go through arbitration with your AG office, with BBB online or what?

Wildcat Jon

GT, did ACS or the dealer swap your car? Also, how's your 2005? Any issues? DId you have to go through arbitration or did ACS step up prior to the hearing?

BigBokey

Wildcat:
I have a relatively new build (VIN 21863) but not that new. I wish I would have documented my vibrations issues a little more (It's my first new car and I never thought I would have had this problem with an Acura). I guess it's part of the learning curve. I went throught the BBB via phone. They sent me some documents to fill out, and it was completed and sent in on Monday. I also recieved a phone call from ACS discussing my complaint to the BBB. ACS stated that they are still working on the problem, and could not help me at this time.

I had 3 documented service visits that mentions vibration issues with my car, luckily, my first complaint was recorded at 1500 miles, so hopefully that's credible enought for the arbritators. I've had more complaints, but they were never documented by Acura, they were all verbals. I will never take another verbal again, I want every complaint documented in the future, just in case I end up in a situation like this again. First visit: rotated and balanced tires. Second visit: replaced EL42 with new. Third visit: rotated and balanced tires. 3 times and no fix.

I even met with the District Service Manager who test drove the car with me. He confessed to Acura having a problem and said it was with the torque converter, but the vibration you're getting is normal, there is nothing wrong with the car, you're just not supposed to feel the vibrtion. He said Acura is working on possibly changing the engine mounts or adding something to dampen the sound.

I'm not familiar with the lemon laws in my state (GA), but I will try my best to state my case with the arbritrators. I really love the car and wish they could fix it, if not.......Give me my money back or give me an 05 or brand new 04 that doesn't vibrate.

sftroy

WJ -

I had the vibrations as well as a POS tranny. I filed my case in early November and got my decision in January. Do a search and you will see all the gory details about my car and case. The findings in my case pointed mostly to the POS tranny stating that it is about to fail and that it might be the cause of the vibs.

Here is my advice: ASK THE BBB FOR A TECHNICAL INSPECTION - don't just go on the joy ride with the arbitrator and Acura. Then it becomes a perception thing rather than an objective, complete evaluation. Also, the arbitrator and Acura representative (who actually didn't work for Acura I later found out) were both HEAVY guys in my case. Their weight could have affected how the vibrations felt - I have no clue if it would, but I'm very glad my drive was cancelled and a TI was called for. Its not too late to formally ask for a TI and you can do so at the hearing. I'd do it before hand so that the findings can be presented. Also, take the car to an independant Acura service station and pay for an evaluation - if you win, you will get reimbursed. Bring the findings to your hearing. Bring witnesses who have driven your car and if you can bring someone who has a TL with no vibe, have them testify or bring in a letter. Also, describe the vib correctly - if your steeringwheel shakes, say it SHAKES.

Feel free to PM me if you want any additional advice.

sftroy

In my case, it was a repurchase decision. I had a mileage deduction taken off the award - the calculation in CA is (miles first defect was reported/120000) x total purchase price. Because Acura didn't step up and fix my car, I basically got 1 year of vibrations for free. They had to pay for my taxes, license, tire upgrades and accessories, etc.

After much consideration and debate, I purchase an 05 w/a 01/05 build date. I test drove many, many TLs, and most felt completely different than my 04. My 05 has the DL vibration, slightly - but it is getting more noticeable. Hopefully, it will not get worse and/or the "fix" noted in the forum will correct it.

Also - ACS has NEVER, EVER called me - not after I submitted my case to the BBB, not after I presented my case (and it was clear I was going to win) and not after I submitted a TI as well as the TI report from the BBB inspector was finalized. ACS is a complete joke - from my experience, I believe that they don't give a shit about their customers and they only care about $$$$.

sftroy

BB - good luck with your case and feel free to PM me for any additional advise or insight into the BBB process.

Pitty we have to go thru this . . . . and shame on Acura.