Davidoconn

I just picked up a 2004 TL after having a 2001 CL Type S. The TL has a really bad driveline vibration from 60mph and up. It is not like a tire balancing vibration, but something that can be felt through the floor and steering column. The car goes back tomorrow to the service department, I have 600 miles on the car. I tried to search but couldn't find anything on driveline vibration. Anybody else have a similar problem? Any idea what it could be?

Thanks




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Service Bulletin 05-017 issued May 20, 2005


Edit by MOD rets

rets

Are you talking about the vibration while your car is at "low RPM + high gear", especially at 1500 RPM + 5th gear? It's just like "lugging"...

KJSmitty

Could this just be the infamous "flatspotting"/bad tire issue? I doubt it's the infamous "lugging" sensation due to it being "from 60mph and up". If not either, it sounds like a similar issue that caused Nissan to buy back my 2004 Maxima..... If so, hopefully Acura will be more willing to diagnose the problem vs stating its a "normal characteristic of the vehicle".

Ironic as it may be, I still have the original flatspotting EL42s on my TL, have had them balanced 3 times (Hunter road-force no less) and they still vibrate at speeds over 65mph

Please keep us posted on your findings/outcome.

Smitty

3PUTT

one thing i did notice is that shimmy around 70-75 mph. it disappears when your speeds are below or above the mentioned range.

rets

Davidoconn, we need your confirmation...

Please let us know as detailed as possible...

"flatspotting" could go away after miles driving.

"vibraiton by 5th gear and low RPM" could be reduced by downshifting to 4th gear and raising your RPM.

Let us know what you discover.



What we know is you may get less vibration after getting better tires.

koobreez

My 6MT does the same thing. Vibration from about 60+ mph. It's not the tires. I have two sets of wheels(stock and OZ's) and the car does the same thing with both. The vibration is worse when the car is cold.

Davidoconn

Thanks for the replies. The problem is definitely not the tires. I have another car with a flatspotting problem so I know what you are talking about. This problem is something in the driveline. It is a vibration that comes through the floorboards and rattles the steering column, but the wheel does not shimmy. The car is shaking like a wet dog.

badboy

I have had my tl for less than 2 months, and I experience the same vibration around 65 mph once the car shifts into 5th at low rpms, I have the at. I don't know if I should bring it in to the dealers. any suggestions?

Thanks

1FasTL

I feel the same thing at 40 to 60 mph but it's a combination of tire flat spotting and the 5th gear (5AT) lugging. It goes away after the tires warm up (1-2 miles). I doubt Acura will do anything with the 5th gear exhaust resonance. I'd like them to reprogram the ECU for different shift points but they'll never do that due to gas mileage/EPA concerns.

I DO feel slight engine vibrations in the steering wheel and gas pedal but they seem to be normal. Kind of like the engine mounts aren't damping the engine's vibrations completely. Anyone else feel this?

cullal

I have the 5AT and feel the vibrations at 1500-2000 rpms driving between 50-60 mph. The vibration seems to be transmitted through the steering and the floorboard.I also have a shimmy on the steering at speeds above 65 mph.

Any suggestions?

J RIDE 81

My car feels smooth as hell. Do you all have the earlier builds? My car does not have this problem. It feels smooth as silk at speeds up to 100 MPH. <-- a little under that is the fastest I've taken it.

GTFISH

I have the same vibration issues that Acura and my dealer both acknowledge. Last visit the technician worked with the Acura tech line to "center" the engine and make some adjustments with the motor mounts. Neither helped. They have changed wheels and tires and not noticed any difference. Not sure if they tried a different brand or model of tire though.

Acura Client Service is worthless, they basically told me it was being worked on and they may never have a solution but since it wasn't a safety issue I was S.O.L. Not the answer I expected and apparently they haven't read the Lemon law statutes which don't limit relief to only "safety" issues.

The vibration apparently isn't rpm dependent but speed dependent. At 80mph the car is pretty smooth. At 50mph it isn't. In the morning it is really bad for 10 or 15 minutes of driving (tire issue).

rets

Ok, "flatspotting" is eliminated. What RPM and gear are you at while you have these issues?



You could ask dealers to check for you, but dealers may tell you this is "characteristic" for 04TL. My 5AT has it, too, esepcially at 5th gear/1500 RPM/50-55 MPH. My ECU upshifts tranny too early, this way does increase MPG but add too much uncomfortable.

Have you heard ppl say "resonance of exhaust"? This could be the one. 03 MDX has similar vibration at 2000 RPM range. I remember MDX has a TSB/recall for this. Anyone knows about it?



"flatspotting" shound go away, but 5th gear's vibration feeling should be there forever unless Acura does some adjustment with ECU and exhaust system. Yes, agree, the higher shiftpoint would help in exchange of MPG. (There is new TSB providing a new solution for particular MIL-On issue, the side effect for that upgrade is that ECU seems to upshift in a little higher RPM.)



As 1FasTL said above, this won't go away until Acura comes out new solutions. However, after getting rid of EL42 tires, I find out my shimmy at that particular ranges of speed and RPM is reduced. I believe my new tires' rubbers or design structure have absorbed vibration better or redirected vibration to the ground better than EL42s.

rets

IMO, some of them should be RPM-related issues. If your 50MPH vibration issue is at 5th gear and 1500 RPM, yes, RPM is the factor and you may get less vibration and less noise if raising your RPM (or downshifting to 4th gear).

At 80 MPH, RPM will up to 2300~2400.

For the morning case, it seems like "flatspotting" to me.


EL42 is the factor for "flatspotting". Engine/tranny/ECU/exhaust is another factor for another vibration at 50 MPH.

Davidoconn

The car is in the shop today, so I am waiting to hear what they have to say. What I can tell you is that I am always in 5th gear when I notice the problem, and it is worse if you step on the gas slightly anywhere from 60 MPH and up. I will have to see what the dealer comes back with. If they state it is "normal" I will try shifting down to 4th at the same speed.


My car was built in June, so it is not an early build model.

GTFISH

Yes I have very evident flatspotting, that is at speeds about 40mph or so.
The other vibration is only really noticeable at 50-60mph and not just in 5th gear. It changes a bit when I downshift to 4th (5AT) but it is still very noticeable. This happens long after the flatspotted tires are smoothed out (as much as EL42's can be smooth )

My dealer said that my experienced were not isolated and that he would not describe it as "normal" or a characteristic of the car. There is definetly a mechanical problem in the car. I don't doubt that but I wish they would put a set of Michelin or other tires on so that we are 100% sure it is not the tires.

rets

Most of ppl here having the new tires (not EL42s) are satisfied how good this car would be. Good luck to you.

Please keep us updated, thanks.

DanL

iTrader: (2)

Both the MDX and Pilot has this issue. I wasn't aware of any TSB, but I do know some have found that replacing the EGR valve solved the problem. I know that sounds strange, but apparently a bad or failing EGR valve will cause the engine to miss between 1500-2000 RPMs and at constant speeds the miss = vibration. The EGR valve and the TB seem to carbon up very quickly on Honda V6's so that same problem could be occuring on the TL.

JohnDoe2

The annoying thing is that the vibration is not persistent. That may lead people to think it's a tire flat-spotting problem...the tires go back to round and the drive becomes incredibly smooth. I had mine road tested at the dealer, and of course, it was fine then. When the vibration is there, the car feels like crap. When it's gone, the car feels like a 35K machine.

rets

Interesting. In my case, that vibration won't go away after a trip, which means it's persistent and importunate. By using PVC EL42s, it's always there whenever you upshift to 5th gear and stay in 1500 RPM with 50-55 MPH.

I only experienced "flatspotting" 3 times in the past winter with my PVC EL42s.

koobreez

The vibration on my TL is most noticable when the car is cold. Once it warms up, it vibrates less but still vibrates. Vibration starts around 60 mph and continues up past 100 mph.

I'm taking my car to the dealer tomorrow to have it looked at. The service mgr is a friend of mine so I'm really hoping they can figure out what's wrong with this thing. Its very annoying.

In regards to this thread, can we please keep it focussed on the speed/vibration issue and create a new thread regarding the 5AT trans issue?

Davidoconn

The latest from my dealer is that he believes it is a wheel or tire related problem. I disagree. He is going to take one wheel at a time off the car today and replace it with a new one, drive it and see if the problem goes away. According to the tech when he drove the car yesterday he felt the same thing I described and continued to feel it when the car was placed in neutral, and also when he shut off the engine when driving. I don't know if a driveline related issue in the trans or anywhere else would still vibrate with the engine off coasting in neutral. I am waiting to hear back today on if the problem is solved or not.

koobreez

Here's the specs on the tests I've done on my car:

2004 TL, 6MT, 17" factory summer tires(Potenza's), Built in July, roughly 1500 miles on the car.

Vibration started around 1100 miles and is most noticable when the car is cold. As the car warms up, the vibration lessens but does not go away. Vibration feels like an out of balance tire and can be audibly heard, felt through the steering wheel, brake pedal, and floorboard.

Vibration starts around 60 mph and will continue over 100 mph.

I've gotten the car up to 90 mph, took it out of gear and let the engine idle while coasting back down to 60 mph. Vibration is still there so I don't think it's engine related.

I've rotated my Potenza's. No change. Vibration is still there.

I've installed my new wheels - 19" OZ Galileo III's w/ 245 35 19 Nitto 555's. Vibration is still there but at a slightly different speed. Probably because of the larger diameter of the wheels.

I've rotated my new wheels and the vibration is still there.

My car went into the shop today and I rode around with the mechanic. He felt it was normal for the car. I told him he's incorrect. I spoke with the service mgr and he's going to have them do extensive testing and checking.

I probably won't have the car for a few days. Good thing I didn't sell my old Integra.

2K2SilverTL-S

I feel something similar when the car is parked.....i know what your talking about because its comming from the floor and steering column......its barely noticible unless your really being picky.....my guess is that it will go away with time as my TL-S had a similar issue that went away.

Davidoconn

Just got the car back from the dealer. They installed 4 new tires claiming that would solve the problem. It did nothing at all. The vibration is still there, at the same speeds. This is not something small felt at idle. It is a shaking motion somewhere in the driveline. I will go to Park Avenue Acura, as I should have in the first place. They were always the best place to take my CL. I will never buy a 1st model year car again, made that mistake with the CL also.

ljcoren

I may as well join the group since I have been experiencing both vibrations in my 5AT. The high speed vibration occurs at speeds between 75-85. The steering wheel vibrates as if a tire is out of balance, but of course the tires have been balanced and replaced, so the tires are out. I believe it's a mechanical problem and something in the front end was improperly made. The second vibration which happens in 5th gear at speeds between 45 and 60 is something altogether different. Dealer told me Acura says its a torque converter pulse coming through the driveline and they have no solution at the moment. It disappers or is not noticeable at higher speeds or if the transmission in manually shifted into 4th gear.

There is the flat tire problem which seems to have been improved with the new tires. Also, it's summer in Phoenix and tires don't tend to stiffen when the low temperature doesn't get below 80 degrees.

Anyway, I am not happy with the way Honda/Acura has handled this problem. Basically they want to make us believe it's a "characteristic" of the car. Gee, the $12,000 Hyundai my wife drives doesn't have this characteristic. It is possible you have to spend big bucks to get it?

rets

Welcome to the forum.


I was thinking of the same thing, but after replacing my EL42s, I find out new tires would make the huge improvement. IMO, tires (EL42s) are still one of factors in this high speed vibration.


Exactly, I feel the same thing and call it as "5th gear/1500 RPM/50-55 MPH", many 04TLers have the similar complaint.


"characteristic", I hate this word, too.

need4spd

Wow, 9 months later and they still have not been able to fix either of these problems, this is a basic issue and still has gone unresolved.

They now are throwing back in the torque converter, which they ruled out early on (a few had them replaced with no resolution of the 1500rpm vibration).

I wish you all luck!

Any update from Danoconn or the others that had the car in for testing?

Vanwall

I believe I have the same problem. The dealer has alread rotated and balanced the tires.

The car goes back into the dealer this coming Wednesday.

I will post the results of the Wednesday service.

The car is 2 wks old and has 900 miles. The problem has been there from the beginning.

ljcoren

I really don't know why the dealers are rotating and balancing the tires, they know from experience this won't solve the problem. I'm not sure Honda/Acura know what's causing the problem. If they do know, they are not being honest with us and that would make me wonder what they are hiding. It will be interesting to see if the 2005 model has this problem. If not, then they know the source of the problem and should be telling us what they plan to do about our cars. If the 2005 has the same problem then shame on them for releasing it to the public.

Vanwall

Well Ijcoren the dealer I purchased my Acura from is also where I got my E class. They have given me good service in the past so I am hopeful on the outcome. When I talked to a person at the service counter he said he wanted a particular person to check out the car. It sounds to me like they have faced this problem before.

Well Wednesday is only a few days away.

I love the car and it is smooth until about 65 mph.

Road Rage

I feel a little something in that range, but i believe it is exhaust resonance that can not be fully damped, unless one closes up the exhaust and puts a squishy subframe in, as Lexus does. It is so minor as to be insignificant - if I wanted to be isolated from all mechanicals, I would have bought a LS 430. I didn't.

Keep in mind that most of the HP that the 3G TL picked up over the T^L-S was because it opened up the exhaust.

Vanwall

Well RoadRage it is not a minor vibration on my car. Maybe my problem is differnt from the others in the thread but the problem did not go away the balance and tire rotate.

Road Rage

Sorry to hear that - I would have the rotors checked for runout, and machined ON THE CAR if they need attention. The axles need checking as well. Also check all the engine mounts, and every suspension bolt for proper torque. Good luck.

PA-TL-MAN

I had a similar problem with an old 86 Accord. It ended up being the axels. First the left one was replaced, and the vibration went totally away. Then about 6 months later, the vibration came back. My dealer then replaced the right one and the vibration went away once again. From that point on, I never had the vibration come back. Note: The car had about 125,000 miles on it when I had the first vibration problem. I hope this helps.

rrochlin

i have a tl built in 6/04 with 2200mi . i've experienced all the vibration issues noted above and i'm on my third set of tires including the bridgestone lsz's that are currently mounted.
acura corp is trying to make a deal with me in lieu of a lemon law suit. i'll keep you posted!

cullal

Rets,
I dont think tires are the issue here. I got rid of the EL42's and replaced them with Falkens. The vibration is bad at 1500-2000 rpm's when driving at between 55-65 mph and comes through the steering wheel and floorboards. Something else in the front end is causing this vibration to come through.

My dealer has not been able to give me an explanation for this vibration as yet. They have balanced and rotated the tires but the vibration still persists. I will be back at the dealer once again this Friday to replace my seat covers and will bring this up again. I will keep you posted on the developments....

xboylive

Hey FOLKS here is my 2 cents on the problem: I had the problem as all of u have had (FACOTORY & NON WHEELS)... .. I jacked my car up .. unbolted my lugs ... then tightend them all my self .. then torqued each to 80 .. my problem was solved .. .. when i did get a vibration back .. put the wrench back on ..... GOT A CLICK ..meaning the torque on the bolts was not 80 .. car has been riding fine for a week now .... ANYBODY ??? comments.. ???

GTFISH

That could have been your problem. I torqued mine to 85lbs and still have the same vibration.

Road Rage

That's why I told him to have the rotor runout checked - if they gorilla'd the lug nuts, they could have pulled the rotor hats, causing asymmterical loading and a warp condition. But once that happens, re-torquing will not correct it.

I also check all my new cars for proper lug nut torque - another reason I do my own rotations and maintenance.