chen3837

I have a 08 TLS with 75000 miles. Since few weeks ago, I started hearing those clicking sound and figured I need a valve tune-up and a local private garage confirmed as well. Last week, I finally brought my car to a local dealership for a recall and the service director walked by and told me that one of the plugs went loose. So I asked him to tight it up for me with half hour labor charge. Half hour went by he came out with a broken spark plug (the tip is missing and the last few threads were striped). Then he suggested that he will try to tap it and install a new plug. Half hour later, He came out and claimed it can't be fixed without taking the whole head off (6 hr labor) and he will try to contact Acura and see if the corp would help. I gave him an ok but this morning, he called me back and said I will need a new engine. I am talking at least $5K now. I did all the regular maintenance (oil changes, air filters) in my garage and never touched those plugs. The check engine light never went on, either. Does this sound right to you guys?? Or I just have a bad luck??

nfnsquared

What recall required them to pull the coils to get to the plugs?

chen3837

The recall was for power steering hose, but the guy heard my clicking noise and mentioned about the loose spark plugs.

dominik331

What explanation did they give you as far as how it went from loose to stripped and broken and what kind of damage did it do to need a new engine?

lastcall190

iTrader: (1)

A new HEAD from the spark plug issue I could see, but a whole new engine? What the hell happened in 12hrs... Unless he discovered the ticking was something far worse than a spark plug being loose...

nfnsquared

If you are the original owner and know that the plugs have never been touched, I'd complain to Acura. There's no reason for factory installed plugs to come loose.

chen3837

So far none........That's what bug me the most. I asked for a reason to cause it and the response was they don't know. I am about to find out what damage exactly that needs a new engine.

mcmanut

Which plug was it? If it was the middle plug in front on the motor, there was a service bulletin on this. They came from the factory not tighten properly. i have a 08 too and one plug was very lose when I changed the plugs at 105k. Check the service bulletins on this forum. Good Luck

dominik331

Just checked through the list of TSBs and could not see anything related to that. could it be under the news bulletins?

mcmanut

Here some additional information on this topic from this forum.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...n+spark+plugs\

nfnsquared

There is no TSB for this that I have seen. Someone else can double check the TSB list, but I don't see it.

That being said, assuming those are factory installed plugs and you know no one has ever touched them since the car left the factory, I'd press Acura very hard to explain why you have to pay for damage on something that was factory installed and not scheduled for maintenance until 105K miles.

I'm also curious what kind of damage could have been caused to require a whole new engine. Very suspicious. Since they have it apart, I'd ask them to let you bring in another mechanic for a second opinion.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

ask them for pix or it didn't happen.a new head is understandable but a new engine? Did the spark smash into the piston or scored the cylinder wall?

makk

There is no TSB for spark plugs being loose, but there is an issue with them walking out of the heads. For whatever reason, #5 seems to be the most common.

chen3837

After a week of back and forth, I just got the final verdict from the dealership. The broker spark plug is from the front center and it went loose and been knock around so the thread on the head was damage. The broken piece went inside the cylinder and scored the wall and damaged the piston head, so I will need a whole new lower engine. The head will be sent out to re-thread. The Acura service rep reviewed the case and offered to pick up the cost of the material and labor ($7K). The dealer asked me to pay for the material including timing belt kit, some other belts, and 6 new spark plugs which I will need to replace when I hit 105k mi. It came out $600+tax. It was much better than $7k, but I am still having a hard time to believe such thing would happen (from a loose spark plug turn into a new engine). Anyway, if you have the same car as mine, please go check every spark plug make sure they are tightened.

makk

Do I win a prize for correctly calling #5 plug popping out?

chen3837

Sorry Pal! I wish I can give you a prize for that. As matter of face, when the dealership told me that Acura will pick up majority of the cost they made it sounds like I won a jackpot and should be thankful for it. I am sorry that I didn't feel any better but kept wondering if Acura failed to tighten it up when they produced the car.

nfnsquared

Dude, that's a very fair deal IMO. Hats off to Acura for doing the right thing!!!

mcmanut

I agree, this was more than fair by Acura. You need to keep in mind, the parts you are paying for are wear and tear items that would need to be replaced soon. I hope this forum helped support your case with Acura.

lastcall190

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a good deal to me. Obviously needing a new motor is nothing great (and the inconvenience is bad enough), but it could have come out a lot worse. Thanks for updating with the reasoning Acura gave you for this ordeal as well.

-J

Acura-OC

So, well known problem that shouldn't even be a problem at all at first place will cost OP $600+ and all of you saying "well done" by Acura?

I am sure that this car wouldn't drive if broken piece of spark plug or part of head was inside cylinder. So if the piece just happen to fall when spark plug was removed they [dealer] still could pull it out without damaging cylinder walls and piston. Whatever they are fixing now is they are fixing their own mistakes. I am sure dealer installed new spark plug and started the car and loose piece inside the cylinder is what caused this problem.

dominik331

They did the right thing. Congratulations.

I guess Acura/Honda will keep you as a customer for future purchases!!

terdonal

Glad to see Acura did the right thing by you.

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

I am gonna go check my spark plugs after reading this.

That sucks man, glad to see they are helping you out. 600.00 out of pocket and having Acura put in the new motor is a pretty fair deal for the circumstance.

nfnsquared

They're basically only asking him to pay $600 for a timing belt/water pump/spark plug/serpentine belt change which would have had to be done in another 30K anyhow.

Acura clearly recognized their liability for this (whether it is because of the known issue about the plug backing out or the actions of their service tech removing the plug, it doesn't really make a difference, they did the right thing) or they wouldn't have agreed to fix it.

Yes, it's a good deal.

I hate cars

They're covering their screwup. If the end of the plug was broken off and caused cylinder damage you would have a dead misfire. They probably broke the tip off, fired it up and screwed it up. Did the car have a very obvious miss?

You can look at it as a good thing or a bad thing. You get a new engine for $600, make sure it's new. On the other hand it's rare they do a job that big without screwing something up and more than likely the engine would have outlasted the rest of the car.

nfnsquared

OP, when it's all taken care of you should consider scanning in all the related documents and posting them for future reference.

chen3837

I just got my car back finally last Friday. I paid $476.96 out of pocket. According to the invoice, they replaced the short block and repaired the head, assembled with new timing belt and plugs. The amount is including 6 plugs ($29.08/ea), tensioner($136.34), timing belt($81.95), and compressor belt ($52.99). Again, is it a fair deal? I guess so from the $ prospective ($500 for a new engine). But it's the reliability that upset me the most. When I bought the car, I was betting on driving the car for 150K+ miles without any major issue (engine, transmission). If I bought a dodge or GM, then I wouldn't be so disappointed because I should be expecting this kind of problem since day 1. Anyway, thanks for all the support and suggestions on my case. Lastly, go check your PLUGS!!

nfnsquared

They way overcharged you on the parts. List prices are as follows:

TB $62.21
SB $38.68 (serpentine/compressor belt)
Tensioner $127.75
SP $ 19.65

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

Come to think of it, I did check my plugs over the summer when my van started having rough idle.

I was gonna buy new plugs for the S and put my old ones into the van. Those have about 70k on them.

I wouldn't call that a "new" engine with a new shortblock and repaired heads.

If you ever want to change the heads out you can find Type S heads on the Honda Odyssey 3.5L from 2002 to 2004 I believe.

chen3837

That's why I have no faith with these dealerships. You think I would ever go back plus give them a good score on the survey!!

nfnsquared

I'd go back to them and tell them that unless they charge you the discount rate for the parts and refund you the overcharge, they will get a bad rating...There is absolutely no reason for them to be making money off of this deal...Here are the discount prices:

TB $46.04
SB $28.62

http://www.oemacuraparts.com/index.p...e=scat&scat=12

Tensioner $94.54

http://www.oemacuraparts.com/oem-par.../14520-rca-a01

SP $14.54

http://www.oemacuraparts.com/oem-par...gk/9807b-5617w

08TypeS-CO

My 08 Type S is in the shop with the #5 plug blown out. Has 77k on it. Worst part is I just bought it 4 months ago, got to enjoy just 6k driving time and now looking at a $2500 repair bill. I purchased a service contract when I bought the car but they won't cover it because as they say it was caused by the plug which is not a covered component. Had the head pulled and the threads in the #5 tube are gone. Plug was discolored but intact so it appears nothing got into the cylider. The Coil Pack was melted. Going to have it repaired using a Time-Sert rather than replacing the head. Hope it works. I did contact Acura after the dealer confirmed that the plugs were original but they are refusing to help as I am not the original owner. I even tried to use the fact that I am a repeat Acura owner (99 Integra I had was just written off by a hit and run driver) plus I also own three Honda's. Still no offer of assistance. Going to do the timing belt as well while its all apart adding another $600 to the bill.
Anybody have any experience with Time-Sert's. Have used helicoils back when heads were steel but it was recommended to use the Time-Sert as they are superior to helicoils for this type of repair.

I hate cars

I'm sorry to hear that, it sucks. This is part of the reason I've always recommended a 40-50k plug change with regular $2 plugs.

08TypeS-CO

Well, its been a month now since my Type-S quit due to what the service contract/warranty company says is a plug blow out. Head was repaired with a Time-sert, reinstalled on the engine, timing belt, etc., replaced... Just got a call from the dealer...one I was hoping I wouldn't get...cylinder #5 has low compression and appears part of the plug entered the cylinder. Now needs a new engine!! Repair bill to get to this point is just over $2,800. Used engine (with 40K) re and re will add another $5,400. Dealer will transfer all the new timing belt components over to the used engine. Option was to go with a short block for a few hundred more but I feel a little uncomfortable putting used heads (one repaired) with 77K on a new short block so elected to go with the used complete engine. Either way there is a 12 month / 12K warranty. Just sucks that a spark plug can cause so much damage and cost all this money. Hopefully it runs trouble free for another 10 years so I can get some money back out of it.
Spent a lot of time arguing with the service contract/warranty company on this but they win due to vague wording intheir contract that can be (and let me tell you it certainly was) twisted in any way they wish to avoid paying out. So a word of advice... if anyone offers to sell you a service contract/warranty (particularily from a company called Century Automotive Services Corp.) run in the opposite direction as fast as you can. A $2,000 piece of paper that is good only to perhaps start a fire with!!

roof2006

If you're paying the dealer to replace your engine, that's just throwing money away.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^did you even read the thread?

08TypeS-CO

I don't disagree but car has been there for a month while I fought with the service contract/warranty company. I could move it but would be looking at paying them $2800 for work so far. Sucks but in the end as they say... it is what it is. They have discounted their labor rate and cut me a 15% discount on all parts including the used engine. I have all 5 of my Honda/Acura products serviced here so history is worth something. I have built a bit of a trust level with them over the past 10 years. I agree that an independent shop may be able to do it a little cheaper but haven't had luck finding one I would put a lot of trust in close to where I live.

I honestly never expected to be in this position with a Honda/Acura product. Nor did I expect to get totally blown off by Acura when I raise the issue with them. Learning experience I suppose... could always shop GM's... that's not going to happen anytime soon!!

The Blue Abyss

iTrader: (1)

Man, I recently gave my mom my 2004 ABP Acura TL that had 65k miles on it (bought it in early 2007 from CarMax in Birmingham with around 25k miles) and a bunch of stuff done on it (ASPEC body kit, '08 side mirrors with blinkers, quad exhaust tips, new dashboard, etc). Never had a problem with it, besides the cracked dashboard which I got replaced for free as I spent a lot of money on add ons at that particular Acura dealership in Tempe.

Well, a few hours ago on my way home from work late, I got a few blocks from my house and my car (2008 NBP Acura TL Type S) started making terrible noises. Popped hood in my garage and saw something sticking out from under engine cover, and noticed cover now had a crack in it as well. Removed the cover and saw the coil with intact spark plug on the end. Hoping this is a good sign, and it means I won't have to get the head replaced, which I know is crazy expensive. What do you guys think I should be willing to pay to get this fixed?

I bought this car mid April 2012 (almost 21 months ago) from CarMax in Las Vegas with 45k miles (still had 5k miles left on warranty). It now has 65k miles. I'm guessing these are the original spark plugs on the car. I always get the car serviced at a local Acura dealership when a service code comes up.

nfnsquared

Is the spark plug completely intact? Can't really tell from that photo.

If it is, you may have gotten lucky (although the threads could still be stripped).

I definitely wouldn't run the engine until you can determine that no debris fell into the cylinder.

Edit: After enlarging the photo, the spark plug looks like it's fully intact. If that's true, then you MAY only be out the cost of a plug, some anti-seize, and a coil (assuming the threads aren't stripped).

But I'd get someone to scope the cylinder to be certain it's clean.

The Blue Abyss

iTrader: (1)

Looks clear to me. To be safe, I probably should have it towed to whatever repair place I wind up taking it to (cheaper than risking driving it further and potentially needing new engine). Will call around to see how much they'll charge to fix it roughly. Guessing dealership will want a lot more than some local car repair places.

Thought I read that our cars can go 100k miles before needing new spark plugs. If that's the case and these are the factory spark plugs, I wonder what kind of negotiating I could do with an Acura dealership?