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In my opinion, as soon as the replacement bearings are readily available for public, the PCI bearing is easy to "replace" so to say...
OEM bushing - press in/out
Replacement bearing - snap ring out, slide in/out, snap ring in.
It will just cost more in parts (but WAY less in labor) and will PROBABLY be more often than rubber. So yes i think OEM is clear winner in cost/longevity value unless you can find a city with zero potholes on the road.
Why don't we have more members with PCI chiming in... according to "statistics" 10 out of 1 angry customers come to online (yes, 1 peron makes 10 threads .. lol) to voice their horror story while 1 out of over 100 happy customers share their joy online so, I think it's a good sign but I would really like to hear more from actual owners.
What would be bad about making the logo face up and outward (respective sides) so that it's easier for a snap ring plier to get to the bearing when it needs replacement?
I'm assuming the whole assembly is round, and bearing is centered.
Some of the applications of this part are for strut cars and the bearings are offset to add caster. In this applicable I think the bearing is concentric so it probably doesn't matter how you put them in.
Although it seems you might be over-estimating the amount of replacement that these bearings are going to need...this isn't something you are going to be getting in there and doing once a year. You'll probably never need to service them.
Originally Posted by 4drviper
It's hard to tell lifespan of spherical bearing because it's not rubber.
Rubber will absorb (or get squished and bounce back) when you hit a pothole (just an example). Spherical bearing will be permanently damaged when exposed to impacts above certain threshold(plastic deformation). Every material/alloy has its own limit where it cannot return back to original shape after force is applied. (aside from Young's modulus)
The only report I remember seeing is a Canadian member here who had about 10-20k miles. It looked fine. But then again any chinese replacement, when driven gently, can last that long. So don't take it as "Oh it will last 15k competing rally championships".
But PCI makes bearings for many many cars (aftermarket) so I don't doubt their quality, it's just that my compliance bushing's 1/5way torn and it's holding
One thing is, I want to see the price and availability (readily) of replacement bearing cores so I can have 2-3 pairs in stock at home so whenever they are damaged I can just pop couple bolts and replace the bearing with a snap ring plier, no need to press the bushing frame out/in like the first time.
I remember Marcus telling me the replacement bearing is really cheap compared to the whole new bearing set, but no hard numbers.
PCI has replacement bearings on hand. We needed to send one to one person more than a year ago, but we didn't need to pay for it. The bearing itself not going to be more than a $30 part I am sure. The fact I don't know how much replacements cost should probably be an indicator of how reliable they've been. Keeping some on hand (2-3 pairs? really?) seems completely unnecessary. I appreciate the fact you want to be protected against failure but this is extreme.
Yes, you very much are over-estimating the need to replace these bearings. These parts are no more prone to wearing than the stock parts are. There is limited benefit in trying to poke holes in this product. When it was new, yea I could see it. But the part has quite a bit of history now.
Originally Posted by 4drviper
In my opinion, as soon as the replacement bearings are readily available for public, the PCI bearing is easy to "replace" so to say...
OEM bushing - press in/out
Replacement bearing - snap ring out, slide in/out, snap ring in.
It will just cost more in parts (but WAY less in labor) and will PROBABLY be more often than rubber. So yes i think OEM is clear winner in cost/longevity value unless you can find a city with zero potholes on the road.
Why don't we have more members with PCI chiming in... according to "statistics" 10 out of 1 angry customers come to online (yes, 1 peron makes 10 threads .. lol) to voice their horror story while 1 out of over 100 happy customers share their joy online so, I think it's a good sign but I would really like to hear more from actual owners.
I just ran a quick report here...we've sold more 200 sets of these bearings. I agree with your approximation of 1 out of 10 angry people make a thread...they fact we have had zero tells me there are so few angry people than we can fairly assume there aren't any. We've not had one person, aside from the one replacement that was sent out, ask for new bearings, either.
Yeah definitely getting new rubber bushings is cheaper...but they also numb the steering a lot. The compliance bearings don't exist because the rubber ones wear out. They exist as an upgrade to the rubber bushings. The drive is a lot better with these bearings.
It's been over 2 years...the parts have been proven.
If you need to be sold on these parts, how about this... you buy a set, write up your install, and let us know how they perform. When or if the bearings wear, I will buy your first set of replacement bearings for you. How does that sound?
Just to clear things up, I did not mean in ANY WAY to infer or suggest PCI bearings have poor life or reliability by mentioning that "I, personally, anally, want to be able to" replace easily if I fail to avoid a rim-bending pothole....
Thank you very much for your response. Like I said, I'm just waiting for my OEM bushing to tear juuuuust a bit more
Oh and thank you for the offer, but I won't make you responsible for something I (probably) would have done wrong to damage them, plus they cost even LESS than (cost of) new OEM bushings. But I fully understand your confidence in their quality and I am assured.
Just to clear things up, I did not mean in ANY WAY to infer or suggest PCI bearings have poor life or reliability by mentioning that "I, personally, anally, want to be able to" replace easily if I fail to avoid a rim-bending pothole....
Thank you very much for your response. Like I said, I'm just waiting for my OEM bushing to tear juuuuust a bit more
Oh and thank you for the offer, but I won't make you responsible for something I (probably) would have done wrong to damage them, plus they cost even LESS than (cost of) new OEM bushings. But I fully understand your confidence in their quality and I am assured.
Ok then...guess we are on the same page. But still, if you fail to miss a rim-bending pot hole I image you'll still have more an issue with the rim than the bearing.
I'm about to undergo this fix myself. Getting DIY tool pieces.
Couple of things not fully clear, if anyone can answer these:
1. DIY tool used only for compliance bushing or the other 2 per LCA too? (I plan to keep the LCA on the car)
2. Do I need to do alignment if I don't fully remove LCA?
3. When putting everything back do i need to use specific torque values for the bolts that were removed to get to the bushing?
I'm about to undergo this fix myself. Getting DIY tool pieces.
Couple of things not fully clear, if anyone can answer these:
1. DIY tool used only for compliance bushing or the other 2 per LCA too? (I plan to keep the LCA on the car)
2. Do I need to do alignment if I don't fully remove LCA?
3. When putting everything back do i need to use specific torque values for the bolts that were removed to get to the bushing?
Thank you
I replied to your PM, but your box was full.
1. Keep the LCA on the car. The other two should be fine.
2. Maybe not, but I wouldn't risk it.
3. Yes
I have an Acura TL 2004. My front lower control arm bushings are also torn. My car has about 125,000 miles on it. Here is the bushings.
The control arm from the dealership OEM is like 300.00. But just the bushing OEM is around $50.00. I was thinking about replacing them with rock autos version. Here they are right here. More Information for MEVOTECH CMS601021
Here is a picture of the whole control arm that they offer for around $80.00. Not sure about the reliability of them though.
I have an Acura TL 2004. My front lower control arm bushings are also torn. My car has about 125,000 miles on it. Here is the bushings.
The control arm from the dealership OEM is like 300.00. But just the bushing OEM is around $50.00. I was thinking about replacing them with rock autos version. Here they are right here. More Information for MEVOTECH CMS601021
Here is a picture of the whole control arm that they offer for around $80.00. Not sure about the reliability of them though.
When I checked RockAuto they are Mevotech's but they only had one side the other day, and I need both. I think CarId had the other side for close to the same price. I've heard good things about mevotech bushings, and I figured it's worth the extra $30 or $40 it will cost to buy the whole control arm to not have to mess with pressing bushings in and out. In fact, I'm probably just going to get the upper a-arms as well since they include a new upper ball joint. I will have to press the lower balljoint into the knuckle as it's too expensive via OEM, but once the knuckle is off, it's fairly easy to do.
^^^ decent video showing an alternate way to free the control arm with the ball joint still attached, but you'll get a lot more play and swing if you remove the fork bolt and sway link instead.
Did anyone else think he maybe didn't press the new bushing in far enough?
Yes, it is with my experience thus far to just get the whole control arm. Ill tell you what I don't have a shop or anything and these things were a son of... It first started when I had to remove the sway bar links I sprayed everything down with WB. After that it took like 15 mins lol to remove it. WHen i had the whole control arm removed I realized that the ball joint press that had like a 26mm attachment on the end for a ratchet. I didnt even have a 26mm socket haha. So I had to put everything back together. I am just going to get the whole control arm....
When I checked RockAuto they are Mevotech's but they only had one side the other day, and I need both. I think CarId had the other side for close to the same price. I've heard good things about mevotech bushings, and I figured it's worth the extra $30 or $40 it will cost to buy the whole control arm to not have to mess with pressing bushings in and out. In fact, I'm probably just going to get the upper a-arms as well since they include a new upper ball joint. I will have to press the lower balljoint into the knuckle as it's too expensive via OEM, but once the knuckle is off, it's fairly easy to do.
Gave it another try, removed all needed bolts (couldn't do your way acdr, axle nut was bent into a grove from factory i guess)
Only top part of swaybar link had to be undone to get room, but was still pushing to the max to get the LCA out for the tool. Was worried for axle joint at that angle.
Bushing outer ring is really rusted to the LCA. Put the tool on:
Attempt #1 - used regular washers first, grade 5 bolt and nut: washer got bent, nut got cut into the washer and eventually rounded.
Attempt #2 - used a 1/4 inch steel plate with a hole for the bolt instead of washer: bolt and nut threads were destroyed (both grade 5). How much force does that take!?
So now I'm at crossroads should I get a grade 8 bolt/nuts/washers and try again or just get a new LCA with bushings. I'm afraid the bushing is so rusted in (05 tl, 80k miles) that I might break something trying to push it out.
Here's the bushing with the wheel off.
How bad is this bushing? only saw a few tears from top.
Axle nut is only pushed in that one spot to lock it place . You can stick a small punch in there to make it round again and remove the nut .just make sure you lock the nut the same way with a punch and hammer.
Dont worry about the rust around the bushing sleve . One you start to press the bushing out it will fall off .
I probably skipped few steps on that video . Next one will be in more detail.
Gave it another try, removed all needed bolts (couldn't do your way acdr, axle nut was bent into a grove from factory i guess)
Only top part of swaybar link had to be undone to get room, but was still pushing to the max to get the LCA out for the tool. Was worried for axle joint at that angle.
Bushing outer ring is really rusted to the LCA. Put the tool on:
Attempt #1 - used regular washers first, grade 5 bolt and nut: washer got bent, nut got cut into the washer and eventually rounded.
Attempt #2 - used a 1/4 inch steel plate with a hole for the bolt instead of washer: bolt and nut threads were destroyed (both grade 5). How much force does that take!?
So now I'm at crossroads should I get a grade 8 bolt/nuts/washers and try again or just get a new LCA with bushings. I'm afraid the bushing is so rusted in (05 tl, 80k miles) that I might break something trying to push it out.
Washers definitely need to be grade 5 and you should be stacking a couple/3 of them on each end. Are you sure that the top socket was lined up on the bushing and not on part of the control arm? Did you grease the bolt threads? It takes a lot of pressure to break it loose, but once it's loose it goes easier. Still, I had to use a breaker bar.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 03-16-2015 at 09:00 PM.
Everything was lined up nicely, although the top socket was getting moved under the pressure a bit. Didn't use grease, can it be that much of a difference? Bolt is only 8" so 3 washers stack max.
Anyways, ordered grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers set of ebay, will give it one more shot. Only take me around 15 minutes to get to the bushing now after all this practice
If it doesn't go, which LCA replacement is a good choice?
Everything was lined up nicely, although the top socket was getting moved under the pressure a bit. Didn't use grease, can it be that much of a difference? Bolt is only 8" so 3 washers stack max.
Anyways, ordered grade 8 bolts/nuts/washers set of ebay, will give it one more shot. Only take me around 15 minutes to get to the bushing now after all this practice
If it doesn't go, which LCA replacement is a good choice?
If you can't get the bushing outs, don't replace the LCAs. Just take them to a shop and have the old bushings pressed out/new bushings pressed in for ~$25-$40. But again, that ball joint is a huge PITA!!! Beware....
So far with my experience with all of the time and hassle you have to put in with getting new bushings pressed in if you have to go to a shop I would just get a whole new control arm. I know its probably not the best option but its so much faster and such less of a hastle. I just bought two new ones from rockauto and I am going to sell my old control arms with new bushings once I press new ones in.
Been following the board for a while and reading through the entire thread on the bushings issue. Having a difficult time summarizing what I need to do in order to get this addressed at a reasonable price. I found out my bushing was cracked and needs to be replaced. As a relatively novice auto guy, I was hoping someone could help me with a few questions on getting the bushing(s) replaced on an 04 TL with 95K miles on it.
- How many bushings are there in total that I need to have checked out? I believe I know one in the front passenger side is cracked. Do I need to check elsewhere as well?
- Do I really need to replace the LCA? If so, how many of those are there?
- I'm having a hard time finding the part on the acuraoemparts site. Any chance someone might have the part handy? Also, do I need to buy any other parts in the event I decide to buy the part and have the dealer or mechanic do the install?
Dealer quoted me $700 to fix the cracked bushing(s), does that seem reasonable? I assume it would be cheaper to buy the part my self and have them install?
My local Honda dealer broke it down for me like this.
- $85 for oem acura parts
- $240 for labor
- $59 for alignment
Total is probably $400 out the door with tax. My biggest issue is wanting something better than the OE parts, as I feel these should have lasted longer (I have an '07 with 80K on the clock). Without reading the entire thread, what is the longevity on the PCI parts if I choose to go that way instead?
Thanks!
$85 for both sides(all 3 on each side)?
Please confirm. I can live with that price, thanks!
Upgraded my bolt to grade 8 (bolt+nuts+washers). Had to remove the other 17mm bolt on the farthest bushing to get the tool on.
The problem was the inner socket of the home made tool (amazon one) has rounded edges and under pressure it just squeezed into the bushing ring rather than push it. Had to use a grinder to flatten the edges. Upper part of the bushing ring was too damaged after my failed attempts (the one that broke grade 5 bolt), so I flipped the tool upside down and went the other way, worked on first try.
Sanded and greased the inside, put new bushing in and... bolt was too short, so i just lined it up with my marker and hammered it in 60% of the way, went surprisingly smooth (hit it lightly on opposite sides, used my foot to hold the LCA from bouncing. Used the tool to finish the job.
Old bushing was teared 20% on one side and cracked on other think it lasted alright on 05 TL 85k.
Now just gotta do the other side.
I only changed bulbs and bad tires before so this was a "big" job for me.
Been following the board for a while and reading through the entire thread on the bushings issue. Having a difficult time summarizing what I need to do in order to get this addressed at a reasonable price. I found out my bushing was cracked and needs to be replaced. As a relatively novice auto guy, I was hoping someone could help me with a few questions on getting the bushing(s) replaced on an 04 TL with 95K miles on it.
- How many bushings are there in total that I need to have checked out? I believe I know one in the front passenger side is cracked. Do I need to check elsewhere as well?
- Do I really need to replace the LCA? If so, how many of those are there?
- I'm having a hard time finding the part on the acuraoemparts site. Any chance someone might have the part handy? Also, do I need to buy any other parts in the event I decide to buy the part and have the dealer or mechanic do the install?
Dealer quoted me $700 to fix the cracked bushing(s), does that seem reasonable? I assume it would be cheaper to buy the part my self and have them install?
Appreciate the help in advance.
This thread could use a sticky summary for sure, read it a couple of times over myself.
There are 2 LCAs, one for each wheel. It's the lowest part of the front suspension, T-shaped. It has 3 bushings, 1 on each end. Of those 3, the largest one - compliance bushing, bears the most stress (bumps/cornering/torque) and is prone to tearing after a while (50k?). Other 2 bushings on LCA should be fine.
Chances are if one has tears, other side has too.
Dealer usually replaces the whole arm, that is why such huge quote, I was quoted $950. And apparently my engine mounts show some cracking...
I asked a few mechanics, and they all wanted to go the LCA replacement route.
Thanks to some members (nfnsquared in particular ) I managed to replace the bushing. Took me 3 attempts, about $200 in parts and tools (torque wrench, ratchet set, bushings, home made tool). I would say I am a novice car guy as well, but I know my way around tools, happy I did it myself.
If you do attempt to do it yourself, always remember safety first. A lot of members here are experienced and skip over some basic but important parts. Having a buddy help out also helps a lot. Putting the suspension back together can be tough alone.
Upgraded my bolt to grade 8 (bolt+nuts+washers). Had to remove the other 17mm bolt on the farthest bushing to get the tool on.
The problem was the inner socket of the home made tool (amazon one) has rounded edges and under pressure it just squeezed into the bushing ring rather than push it. Had to use a grinder to flatten the edges. Upper part of the bushing ring was too damaged after my failed attempts (the one that broke grade 5 bolt), so I flipped the tool upside down and went the other way, worked on first try.
Sanded and greased the inside, put new bushing in and... bolt was too short, so i just lined it up with my marker and hammered it in 60% of the way, went surprisingly smooth (hit it lightly on opposite sides, used my foot to hold the LCA from bouncing. Used the tool to finish the job.
Old bushing was teared 20% on one side and cracked on other think it lasted alright on 05 TL 85k.
Now just gotta do the other side.
I only changed bulbs and bad tires before so this was a "big" job for me.
Your car uses metric hardware. Grade 8 Metric hardware (actually grade 8.8) is equivalent to SAE grade 5 (to soft for suspension). You need grade 10.9 if you want to "upgrade". Get those cheeze bolts off there straight away!!!
BTW: Honda's bolts are custom engineered for the application. Coating, thread pitch, grade, shape, etc has all be engineered. They should be ideal for their price point.
Yeah, I am talking about the home made tool bolt, as i managed to dethread grade 5 bolt on my previous attempt, so grade 8 was an upgrade. By the way I only used 8 inch long bolt.
Didn't have any problems with original bolts suspension, reused them all, although putting the fork bolt back is a pita.
This thread could use a sticky summary for sure, read it a couple of times over myself.
There are 2 LCAs, one for each wheel. It's the lowest part of the front suspension, T-shaped. It has 3 bushings, 1 on each end. Of those 3, the largest one - compliance bushing, bears the most stress (bumps/cornering/torque) and is prone to tearing after a while (50k?). Other 2 bushings on LCA should be fine.
Chances are if one has tears, other side has too.
Dealer usually replaces the whole arm, that is why such huge quote, I was quoted $950. And apparently my engine mounts show some cracking...
I asked a few mechanics, and they all wanted to go the LCA replacement route.
Thanks to some members (nfnsquared in particular ) I managed to replace the bushing. Took me 3 attempts, about $200 in parts and tools (torque wrench, ratchet set, bushings, home made tool). I would say I am a novice car guy as well, but I know my way around tools, happy I did it myself.
If you do attempt to do it yourself, always remember safety first. A lot of members here are experienced and skip over some basic but important parts. Having a buddy help out also helps a lot. Putting the suspension back together can be tough alone.
Also need to do alignment afterwards.
Many thanks for the response!
I went to a shop today for an estimate and they put the car on a lift (did not remove wheels) and did an "inspection" after I told them my compliance bushings were torn (dealer and another mechanic had mentioned previously). The shop indicated I needed to replace the following,
- 6 bushings
- both ball joints
- both sway bar links
- both sway bar bushings.
I have a feeling I'm getting had here...
My thinking is they want me to replace all that other stuff (besides the two compliance bushings which I can see is torn) since it's easier for them to do the other stuff while they have the LCA's off. Any idea whether I need to do all that other stuff? Can they even tell my ball joints are bad without taking anything apart?
While we're at it, they mentioned I should replace the front and rear struts/shocks, said everything was related.
01-03-2015, 12:13 PM
Acura 04 TL Bushings Cracked
) I managed to replace the bushing. Took me 3 attempts, about $200 in parts and tools (torque wrench, ratchet set, bushings, home made tool). I would say I am a novice car guy as well, but I know my way around tools, happy I did it myself.