'04 to '08 front lower control arm bushing failure - please read and look - AcuraZine Community

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Old 01-31-2009, 2:23 AM   #1
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Angry '04 to '08 front lower control arm bushing failure - please read and look

Original thread:
http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showt...hlight=bushing

I've been really disappointed in Acura's service (specifically Kush Kearny Mesa in San Diego but seems to be trend in other dealers too) since when the car is new. I can talk about all the issues I've had with them if people are interested but this is the latest.

Ok, so here's the deal: My friends and I have 3 TLs all from 2004. We have all owned them since new. All have low 40k miles. ON ALL 3 04 TLs, BOTH the right and left front compliance bushings are ripping. (Pics are shown below of my TL but they all look similar)

We finally had time and took 2 of the cars into the dealer to show that the design is flawed and have 100% failure well within waranty mileage. (although we fell outside of the 4yrs before finding the failure).

The response from Acura is that since its outside the timeframe of the waranty, they out of good-will Acura will repair it for $305. (They're saying normally its $500)

Acura is saying that this is a "wear" item and therefore anything they do outside of waranty is extra.

In addition, they say that they have NEVER seen this problem?!?!?!?!?

My problem with this is:
1. Since this bushing is failing 100% all under 50k miles (to me this is unacceptable since it is well short of the car's life as Honda advertised reliability)

2. Catagorizing this as a wear item is wrong (This is not brakes or tires or oil, and bushings are to be used for cushion not wear). Its supposed to wear out as the car nears the end of life cycle not during their mid life similar to a engine mount bushing. Atleast not fail 100% of the time at this time frame.

3. I live in the coastal area of SoCal. Weather is nothing compared to midwest or east coast. Saying that rubber wears out over time (4yrs old) for a car that sits in a garage in nice 70% humidity, low rain, no snow, no salt, nice paved road area is just stupid.

3. comment about never seeing this problem - This is a problem that will only be noticed once the bushing rips all the way through. Before that a user will never notice it unless they looked for it. I only found it when I had my wheels off and was chaning rims. Also I have had to replace that same bushing on a civic so I inspected it. In addition it seems to be present as long as a person looks for it.

4. The use of a bushing in that manner WILL cause the rubber to fail. It was only designed that way to save cost of 1 joint and 1 bushing.

5. On the 2009 TL they changed the design to how the bushing should be used. Only as a cushion for the moving lower arm.


In short, I'm asking you to check your TL to see if it also have this problem.. It can easily be seen with a good digital camera (using macro mode) and turning your wheels. I'm especially interested newer ones in the 30k mile range.

Again, really been disappointed in Acura's service. I felt like my honda's got better service even when the car was out of warranty. (I've owned 4 accords before the TL) I'll probably never buy another honda product since I've outgrown Honda and Acura sucks as bad as GM in terms of service. They just smile more as they're telling you to blow.

Thanks for your time.
--Kwun



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Old 01-31-2009, 10:54 AM   #2
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funny how i had torn bushings on my 05 TL a few months ago, and after numerous fights with Acura they finally replaced it under warranty.

they actually had issues putting a new busing in so they replaced they entire passenger control arm on my car
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Old 01-31-2009, 2:58 PM   #3
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I have the same thing going on with my 06.
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Old 01-31-2009, 5:37 PM   #4
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Did u feel anything wierd when driving?
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Old 01-31-2009, 9:09 PM   #5
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Did u feel anything wierd when driving?

nope, just noticed it while looking to see if my boots had any tears in them
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:27 AM   #6
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This is a known issue. Real PITA. Is $305 for both sides or just your driver's side. Make sure they check your ball joints and put on all new hardware.
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Old 02-01-2009, 1:14 AM   #7
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Do uhave to take the tire of just 2 c it? Or can u just steer the wheel all the way 2 1 side?
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Old 02-01-2009, 4:04 AM   #8
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Do uhave to take the tire of just 2 c it? Or can u just steer the wheel all the way 2 1 side?
Nope, no need to remove wheel (although it is clearer) just turn the wheel torward the side you want to check. Use a digital camera in macro mode and flash. It will show up really easy on the picture. (without additional lighting it is a little dark).
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Old 02-01-2009, 4:08 AM   #9
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This is a known issue. Real PITA. Is $305 for both sides or just your driver's side. Make sure they check your ball joints and put on all new hardware.
For both sides (WITH goodwill discount - normally they tell me its $500something), but in principle I cannot pay acura 1 cent to fix this as it is a product faliure since it seems to happen 100% of the time. I'd agree to partial payment if say it only fails 50% of time but that is not the case.
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Old 02-01-2009, 4:10 AM   #10
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Did u feel anything wierd when driving?
Not in this state but when they rip all the way through, it will show up as a steering/suspension clunk.
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Old 04-18-2009, 7:01 PM   #11
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WHEN I GO OVER UNEVEN PAVEMENT I GET A LOT OF HARSH FEEDBACK FROM THE WHEELS TO THE STEERING, LEFT AND RIGHT.
WENT TO THE DEALERSHIP(CANADA) AND THEY TOLD, ACTUALLY SHOWED ME THAT THE BUSHING( THE RUBBER PART) FROM THE CONTROL ARM IS KINDA CRACKED AND BECAUSE THE CAR IS QUITE HEAVY IT GIVES THAT PULL FELLING ON UNEVEN ROAD. THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT BUT WHAT PUZZLES ME IS THAT THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE WHOLE LOWER CONTROL ARM CLOSE TO 1000$ WITH LABOR AND TAX!!!
04 TL, AT AND MINE HAS 104000 CLICKS ON IT, SHOULD I PHONE WARRANTY CANADA!!!????????????????????
WHY CAN THEY CHANGE THE BUSHING ONLY!!????????????????

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Old 04-19-2009, 3:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tolea View Post
WHEN I GO OVER UNEVEN PAVEMENT I GET A LOT OF HARSH FEEDBACK FROM THE WHEELS TO THE STEERING, LEFT AND RIGHT.
WENT TO THE DEALERSHIP(CANADA) AND THEY TOLD, ACTUALLY SHOWED ME THAT THE BUSHING( THE RUBBER PART) FROM THE CONTROL ARM IS KINDA CRACKED AND BECAUSE THE CAR IS QUITE HEAVY IT GIVES THAT PULL FELLING ON UNEVEN ROAD. THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT BUT WHAT PUZZLES ME IS THAT THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE WHOLE LOWER CONTROL ARM CLOSE TO 1000$ WITH LABOR AND TAX!!!
04 TL, AT AND MINE HAS 104000 CLICKS ON IT, SHOULD I PHONE WARRANTY CANADA!!!????????????????????
WHY CAN THEY CHANGE THE BUSHING ONLY!!????????????????


whoa.. calm down.. if you saw surface cracking that's just dry rot.. if you saw tears then that means that you need to replace the bushing / lower control arm.

The problem is that not all shops are able to press out the rubber bushing. It can be done but many believe it's better to get a new lower control arm as stamping out and putting in a new bushing can be difficult and not as reliable.

Now when you say you get left to right feedback over uneven pavement you're being too critical in attributing it to mechanical issues. What's occurring is changing friction between the wheels. It's nothing to worry about and everyone feels this type of feedback.


Don't pay to have it fixed by Acura when it's not even an issue. If it's just surface cracking and not like the pictures in the thread then it's just dry rot.. don't worry about it. Removing the lower control arm is not difficult but special attention needs to be paid to the ball joint. The whole lower control arm shouldn't be more than a couple hundred each and the bushing should be less than twenty. Call around to independent shops.. You can call American Honda but I believe they will deny the claim under regular maintenance claiming it's part of the suspension.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
whoa.. calm down.. if you saw surface cracking that's just dry rot.. if you saw tears then that means that you need to replace the bushing / lower control arm.

The problem is that not all shops are able to press out the rubber bushing. It can be done but many believe it's better to get a new lower control arm as stamping out and putting in a new bushing can be difficult and not as reliable.

Now when you say you get left to right feedback over uneven pavement you're being too critical in attributing it to mechanical issues. What's occurring is changing friction between the wheels. It's nothing to worry about and everyone feels this type of feedback.


Don't pay to have it fixed by Acura when it's not even an issue. If it's just surface cracking and not like the pictures in the thread then it's just dry rot.. don't worry about it. Removing the lower control arm is not difficult but special attention needs to be paid to the ball joint. The whole lower control arm shouldn't be more than a couple hundred each and the bushing should be less than twenty. Call around to independent shops.. You can call American Honda but I believe they will deny the claim under regular maintenance claiming it's part of the suspension.
HEY GRATE WRITEUP,TX, BUT UNFORTUNATELY MINE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE PIC ABOVE!!
WHAT DO U MEAN IS NOT RELIABLE TO STAMP OUT THE OLD BUSHING??
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CARS BUT FROM FINANCIAL POINT OF VIEW FOR THE PRICE OF GETTING 2 NEW CONTROL ARMS I RATHER STAMP OUT THE BUSHING EVERY YEAR, SINCE I THINK I'LL BE RUNNING INTO THIS IN 2 YEARS THE MOST!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 2:02 AM   #14
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The bushing is torn in ours and there's a vibration as a result. Instability under braking as well. Everything else is in good order and the wheels have been road-force balanced.

This is perhaps the most important bushing in the front suspension because it takes such much longitudinal load, and both sides look like they're improperly aligned from the factory. They do have a specific orientation and will tear like this if not installed in the proper position.

Order the bushings. Removing the control arm is really easy. Take it to a machine shop and have them press in the new ones. We have extended warranty, but if we didn't I'd do exactly this.

Last edited by vinuneuro; 05-06-2009 at 2:05 AM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 7:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tolea View Post
HEY GRATE WRITEUP,TX, BUT UNFORTUNATELY MINE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE PIC ABOVE!!
WHAT DO U MEAN IS NOT RELIABLE TO STAMP OUT THE OLD BUSHING??
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CARS BUT FROM FINANCIAL POINT OF VIEW FOR THE PRICE OF GETTING 2 NEW CONTROL ARMS I RATHER STAMP OUT THE BUSHING EVERY YEAR, SINCE I THINK I'LL BE RUNNING INTO THIS IN 2 YEARS THE MOST!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 8:51 AM   #16
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hmm, I have been chasing a come and go vibe at 65+mph. Not always there, but usually. Steering is a bit light at speed and has a tendency to track road imperfections. I feel that there's a little left pull on harder braking. The alignment has been attacked multiple times by a very patient shop and it's as close as it gets without an Ingals kit. I'm going to have the balancing checked one more time, as well.

Should note that I have 19x9's with 245/35/19 General UHP's. Brand new Koni Yellow's, H&R springs and Progress RSB. This problem arose on the stock suspension, wheels and tires although, tires were just about shot.

I had dealership check front end and all mounts and they just blamed it on the wheel/tire/spring setup.

I'm checking these out pronto - only 3K miles of standard warranty left.
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Old 05-06-2009, 8:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tolea View Post
HEY GRATE WRITEUP,TX, BUT UNFORTUNATELY MINE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE PIC ABOVE!!
WHAT DO U MEAN IS NOT RELIABLE TO STAMP OUT THE OLD BUSHING??
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CARS BUT FROM FINANCIAL POINT OF VIEW FOR THE PRICE OF GETTING 2 NEW CONTROL ARMS I RATHER STAMP OUT THE BUSHING EVERY YEAR, SINCE I THINK I'LL BE RUNNING INTO THIS IN 2 YEARS THE MOST!!
If it's torn like that then you definitely need it changed but before deciding to find a shop to stamp out the bushing, find out what the labor cost will be to R&R the new bushing then find out what if any warranty there is on a new lower arm either through Acura or the shop you get it done at. I say if the new lower arms are $200 more but you get a 1-2 yr warranty then I'd go with the whole arm, but if it's much cheaper to R&R the bushing, of course, get it replaced.
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Old 05-08-2009, 3:30 PM   #18
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OP, what kind of indications were getting with this torn bushing? Vibes, drifting at speed, loose feel, etc...
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Old 05-08-2009, 4:43 PM   #19
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OP, what kind of indications were getting with this torn bushing? Vibes, drifting at speed, loose feel, etc...
Seconded. I have small tears but would never have known it. Will it eventually cause wrecks/etc?

Also, what arguments are most successful in making the stealership repair this under (extended) warranty?

2006 w/ 77k btw.
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Old 05-09-2009, 7:27 AM   #20
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^well, I have 47K on my 06 WDP (excellent choice, BTW!) and the dealer know my car just received the majority of it's modifications. If they're blown, they will replace.

We need to keep this thread fresh. Seems like a couple cars under 50K are showing this wear. This is starting to smell like a possible Acura Tech Service Bulletin brewing.

OP, what did you notice in the drivetrain feel before and after?!?
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Old 05-11-2009, 4:23 PM   #21
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Are there any aftermarket bushings that are resistant to this happening to the OEM bushings? Anything from Energy Suspension?
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:11 PM   #22
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Are there any aftermarket bushings that are resistant to this happening to the OEM bushings? Anything from Energy Suspension?
My sentiments exactly. Seeing as though I just got my TL it's good to find out the problems and possible solutions early on. That part seems like something Acura should recall no questions asked.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:28 PM   #23
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no doubt. I'm about to get my last little gripes taking care of at my 47,500 mile visit and if mine are bad they will replace. Poly bushings would be tougher but I bet they would harshen up the ride like the Innovative motor mounts do.
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Old 05-13-2009, 3:50 AM   #24
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Very interesting. Mine has been completely torn since it had 20,000 miles. I've been chasing a clunking noise for a while too.

Since I had a wreck, I had the entire front subframe replaced and one of the lower control arms and bushings.

I didn't think much of it until I installed my a-spec springs. The side with the new un-ripped bushing had to be pried down with a prybar to gain clearance for the work. The other side with the old bushing could be pushed down with very little pressure.

Just looked it up, for $8 I'm going to replace mine very soon.
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Old 05-26-2009, 9:54 AM   #25
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Shot

Checked these this weekend and sure enough...both sides identical tears about 3/4 - 1" long. I've been chasing tracking issues with my car for about a year now - tends to follow road imperfections/lines and is hard to correct the track straight sometimes. Also, harder braking can get a bit unstable in the wheel.

Scheduling my final hoorah service appt today (47,300 miles!) and they will be replacing these. The test will be if this finally cures my handling issues.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 05-26-2009, 9:56 AM   #26
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by the way, you can shove a pry bar under the control arm housing and move the arm up and down. This will ID how deep the cracks go and whether they are stress fractures or dry rot.

We so need some polyurethane replacements from Innovative or Energy Suspension.
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Old 05-28-2009, 5:38 PM   #27
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Mine look worse than any of these two pictures, lol.

Im 06 w/ 40100 miles btw.

Wonder what kind of fight the dealer will give me to replace? What kind of things can these cause by being bad like this so I know what I am talking about when I yell at them after they tell me its not covered?
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Old 05-28-2009, 7:25 PM   #28
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the service guys took pictures of mine and sent them off to corporate. the service rep that was helping me has an 07 TL-S and said he has the same cracks and had already sent his case up to corporate. I will keep the press on this guy since he has an equal stake in the matter.
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Old 05-29-2009, 8:54 PM   #29
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Got new ones....

I actually went and installed new ones CONTROL ARMS, it's kinda'va long story, one dealership got me into changing them with all the bs about affecting suspension/ball joints, but i got them installed at another dealership( better pricing), when i p/up the car i had the chance to talk to the tech guy:HE SAID THAT IF THIS CAR WAS HIS HE WOULD'VE DROVE IT TILL THE BUSHING BREAK, AND WILL NOT AFFECT ANYTHING, ALL I NEEDED WAS AN ALLIGMENT, MINE LOOKED SAME IN THE PICK ABOVE.
I KINDA LOOKED BRIEFLY AT THE NEW ONES AND LOOKS LIKE ARE REDESIGNED.
AS FOR THE RIDE THE STEERING FEELS MORE STIFF IN A WAY LITTTTLLLE MORE RESPONSIVE AND TIGHT SUSPENSION!!!!

SPENT ABOUT 900 CAD, IN A WAY KINDA WASTE!!!
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Old 05-29-2009, 9:03 PM   #30
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I actually went and installed new ones CONTROL ARMS, it's kinda'va long story, one dealership got me into changing them with all the bs about affecting suspension/ball joints, but i got them installed at another dealership( better pricing), when i p/up the car i had the chance to talk to the tech guy:HE SAID THAT IF THIS CAR WAS HIS HE WOULD'VE DROVE IT TILL THE BUSHING BREAK, AND WILL NOT AFFECT ANYTHING, ALL I NEEDED WAS AN ALLIGMENT, MINE LOOKED SAME IN THE PICK ABOVE.
I KINDA LOOKED BRIEFLY AT THE NEW ONES AND LOOKS LIKE ARE REDESIGNED.
AS FOR THE RIDE THE STEERING FEELS MORE STIFF IN A WAY LITTTTLLLE MORE RESPONSIVE AND TIGHT SUSPENSION!!!!

SPENT ABOUT 900 CAD, IN A WAY KINDA WASTE!!!
damn that's steep.. well hopefully the new lower control arms are warrantied including the compliance bushing. Sorry you got 'hosed' as you'd say in the north but it's better you addressed the problem. The compliance bushing will probably have residual effects to all associated components so you might have saved yourself further headaches.
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Old 05-30-2009, 6:48 PM   #31
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i'll be watching these new arms like a time bomb!!!

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Old 05-31-2009, 5:36 PM   #32
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Oh shoot. I hope this doesnt happen to my 05 TL with **80K** on it....

When get it back I will take a look. Hmmm.
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Old 05-31-2009, 7:29 PM   #33
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you guys gotta take a look. it only takes pulling the wheels off. hopefully this thread is getting a lot of views.

this is the kinda part failure that needs enough vis to initiate a TSB or recall. I honestly don't know yet how/if it's the issue with my annoying handling issue but, it's still premature.

Like I said, the service guy's '07 TL-S has the same stress cracks. Cracks on some of the above posters with 40K recoculous. No telling how long mine have been there but my handling problems began around 39K-ish, and that was on the stock wheels and tires. Traded up to current feet and same exact issue that can be balanced or aligned out: tracking imperfections (TL's tend to do this off the show room floor a bit) and high speed vibe in the wheel and occasionally, some drift under hard breaking. Feels like worn out front end to me and the dealer blamed on... Guess? The 19x8 wheels and after market suspension. I'm holding on the the receipts that show I brought it in with this problem on the factory rolling stock.

piece
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Old 06-02-2009, 4:31 PM   #34
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Dealer just quoted me nearly 1k to have these replaced. I have 120k miles on my '05. Are there any other alternatives than replacement arms? Does anyone make poly bushings?
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Old 06-02-2009, 4:44 PM   #35
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Dealer just quoted me nearly 1k to have these replaced. I have 120k miles on my '05. Are there any other alternatives than replacement arms? Does anyone make poly bushings?
in one of the early posts in this thread it was mentioned that the control arms aren't that difficult to remove. I agree, they don't look too difficult and you'll need a machine shop to stamp the new ones in. Depending on what needs to be removed to get them out, might need an alignment, too.

I don't know if poly would be a good option. Like the Innovative engine mounts, they are much stiffer and might create a negative effect.
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Old 06-02-2009, 4:59 PM   #36
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Dealer just quoted me nearly 1k to have these replaced. I have 120k miles on my '05. Are there any other alternatives than replacement arms? Does anyone make poly bushings?
that's a kick in the balls.. I'd order the LCA's and call around for estimates, shouldn't be more than $200 in labor IMO.. otherwise you only need some elbow grease, hex key, wrench set, maybe a small rubber mallet, lube / penetrant spray.. the only trick is the ball joint, just buy or borrow from Autozone the special ball joint tool.. make sure you order all the replacement hardware though.
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What up guys I got a problem on my car and I think it is due to this the car when driving if I hit uneven road the car feels that it wants to go the way the road is uneven. When I am breaking I get a small vibration that I also think it is caused by this too. I love this car to death and I just got it and its got some bullshyt quality. I have never in my life of owning all Honda's have had this much fucking bullshyt with a car.
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Old 06-02-2009, 5:19 PM   #38
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that's a kick in the balls.. I'd order the LCA's and call around for estimates, shouldn't be more than $200 in labor IMO.. otherwise you only need some elbow grease, hex key, wrench set, maybe a small rubber mallet, lube / penetrant spray.. the only trick is the ball joint, just buy or borrow from Autozone the special ball joint tool.. make sure you order all the replacement hardware though.
So, I'm pretty handy and know my way around suspensions. Is there a write-up anywhere?
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Old 06-02-2009, 5:22 PM   #39
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in one of the early posts in this thread it was mentioned that the control arms aren't that difficult to remove. I agree, they don't look too difficult and you'll need a machine shop to stamp the new ones in. Depending on what needs to be removed to get them out, might need an alignment, too.

I don't know if poly would be a good option. Like the Innovative engine mounts, they are much stiffer and might create a negative effect.
Engine mounts I can see having a side effect - increased cabin vibration. But control arm bushings? I can only see positives from that.

Upon my additional research on this forum, someone mentioned that due to the need of sideways movement, poly control arm bushings are not feasible. Can anyone comment?

Also, to the OP, sorry for hijacking this thread. Just trying to suggest alternatives than replacing crap with...more crap.
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Old 06-02-2009, 6:03 PM   #40
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I discovered my driver's side lower control arm bushing was torn when the car only had 11,000 miles on it. Acura of Manhattan replaced both sides and did a wheel alignment under warranty.

Maybe it's time I checked them again.
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