TLunatic

So I'm a newbie here, but I've searched and searched and cant seem to find a lot of info on what I'm looking for. Anyway, for a brief history, I bought my 04 TL 2 1/2 years ago with 130k miles on it. It drove perfectly smooth for the first year and a half and ever since April (oddly enough after I installed an aftermarket bluetooth cd player) I've notice little things acting funny with it. My vsa started coming on and staying on and running the battery down. Finally around september or october, it started running bad and eventually it started blowing blue smoke out of the exhaust and I was losing oil fast. So, knowing my engine was most likely done and repairing it would take about as much time and maybe more money than buying a new one, I decided to just buy a used engine with 73k miles on it and after watching ErictheCarGuy, do it myself. After 3 or 4 weekends of playing with it, I finally got everything swapped and the new engine is in my car now, except it won't start. Between the engine swap I replaced the passenger motor mount, the trans motor mount, the rear main seal, the timing belt, the water pump, timing belt tensioner, the serpentine belt, the oil filter housing gasket, and maybe something else I'm forgetting. So anyway, the engine turns over but won't crank. I have seen spark on all 6 plugs and they have fuel on the plugs so I figured I could assume the fuel pump and ignition is working. I thought maybe the timing is off, but I did the timing by what several people have said with the front cam on the 1 position, the back cam on the engraved mark on the gear, and the crankshaft at 12. I turned the crank twice to confirm it lined up and the marks were dead on. I rechecked after installing the engine and cranking several times, and the two cam marks still line up perfect, although I can't see where the crank cam is sitting for the cover. I will say, initially when i did the time i didn't make my marks and just took the belt off not realizing both cams were kind of loaded and they sprung forward a certain number of degrees. I figured going by the timing setup everybody gives should still put it back in time. Also, something I noticed was that when i start the car and release the key back to the second position, the fuel pump relay and LAF relay under the kick panel, are vibrating rapidly like they are not engaging right or something. All plugs were plugged back in and the motor turns manually and by the starter. I know there could be a hundred possible causes, but I just wanted to see if anyone has any ideas on what I may have missed or what could cause it to turn over but not start up. And also is there a way to tell if the timing is off other than it just doesn't start? Also, if the crank positioning sensor was bad, would I still be getting spark? Sorry for such a long read, but thanks a lot for any ideas or help. The next step is just getting it towed to a mechanic to let them figure it out, but as always I'm trying to save $$$$.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

So the car cranks good but won't turn on? Auto or 6spd?

nfnsquared

If you have spark and fuel, I'm gonna say it's a missing or bad ground connection.

There's a youtube video somewhere where a mechanic pulled an engine or did a tranny swap and then it wouldn't start. He traced it to a bad ground/loose ground. IIRC, it was also throwing a code.

Did you check for codes?

TLunatic

Its an auto. It will crank for days, but won't start. It has a strong crank, but I just can't figure out what would keep it from cranking. I'm thinking I'm missing some kind of permissive in the ecu somewhere. Also, my shifter won't let me put it in Drive, but from what I've researched that's either the brake switch or the neutral switch.

TLunatic

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Thats an idea. I guess I wouldn't be getting good spark if the engine wasn't grounded good, although they were getting good spark outside the motor. I guess I could hit the chassis with a meter to the motor in various spots to check for good ground? But in any case I know I attached 3 grounds total when I put the motor back in. No I haven't checked the codes yet. I haven't been able to get ahold of a diagnostic tester. I'll probably be ordering one tonight as one of my few last ditch efforts.

nfnsquared

Only 3 grounds?

If even one ground is missing or loose, it could prevent the engine from starting. Exactly how it prevents starting, I don't know, but this phenomenon is documented on YouTube hundreds of times.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Try cleaning up the contact points on the grounds, that's probably your best lead.

I just finished a swap on my 05' TL (6spd tho) and there was a ground on the pass mount bracket, one on the trans housing, one on the shift linkage bracket & I have a feeling that there's one more...

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Just looked it up, for an auto the grounds are..

- Pass side, near PS pump
- Water passage under the throttle body
- Driver mount
- Off battery

Think your issue is the one on the water passage, it's a ground for a bunch of stuff.

TLunatic

Hmmm....well maybe it was 4. I know it was at least 3. Well that would explain my crazy electrical issues that just popped up. Thanks a lot, I'll check that out when I get home and update you all.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Is there a possibility that the immobilizer isn't allowing the engine to start? I might have missed it in your post, but did you swap the ECU? I wonder if that has an effect on the immobilizer. The only time my engine did that was when I used a defective key where the chip did not register with the immobilizer. It would crank just fine but never started. Then I used the other key and it fired right up. The same thing happened with my Pilot.

TLunatic

Thanks man, yeah I do electrical work on ships, but not real familiar with cars. However, I have seen grounds or lack of causing some wierd stuff. Grounds are needed to manage the voltage and keep interference down. I just overlooked something so simple.

thoiboi

Grounds muy importante

TLunatic

I don't think that's the problem, because my green key indicator goes out and isn't flashing. Since I swapped the motor out with a motor of the same year, I didn't think the ecu would be an issue, but I could be wrong.

TLunatic

Well I got it cranked! Dude, you hit the nail on the head. I swear I went over that motor 50 times and somehow kept missing the ground under the throttle body. I bolted it back on and it fired up immediately. Thanks a lot, that made my year.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

nfnsquared

Ding! Ding!! Ding!!!