emanon256

Its been over a month now, at least 40 drive cycles. The car still does the growl/jutter when I am going between 30-40mph and lightly hit the gas. Its actually gotten worse over the past few weeks.

It does respond faster when I am going at higher speeds, but when I am coasting to a stop, and hit the gas just before stopping (like approaching a red light that changes before I stop) there is a huge lag while the car down shifts. It actually looses all power for about 2 full seconds during the lag. It feels like it changes to neutral and hangs out for a while before shifting into 1 or 2. This is even worse than the growl/jutter and started occurring after the software update.

BLEXV6

Just had it done last friday and it seems the "judder" as Acura calls it is gone. It started once in a while at low speed, and was getting worse. Hopefully the torque converter is okay, but they say they will replace that and increased the warranty to 168,000 Km's (100,000 miles).

RIneuron

This was my experience as well. Seems the settings for D are between the old D and S modes. And it seems to hold the engine above 1600 rpm during many conditions when I got the judder (with 1200-1600 rpm). My TC was replaced prior to the PCM change, but the problem was still occasionally present.The judder is now gone for me.

belcom

iTrader: (1)

I brought in my car once before I even knew anything about the TC judder. Service manager just said it's normal and the car should get used to my driving style after a while and it should be better. Right!! A little bit of bullshit right there... Then I brought it in for some other stuff and they did the update at the same time. Shifting points changed and car feels way more lively than before but the TC judder is still present. I brought it in once more but now I was aware and left the car while I was on vacation. They had it for a week! I come back they tell me they changed transmission oil and its better. NO, its not better damn it. I told them about the problem in detail before leaving the car. He kept telling me that he needs more info, like tranny codes to change the TC. I have yet to see any single reference of anyone with the same issue having a code pop up. So more bullshit...
The very next day, I get a letter from Acura describing the problem exactly as it is and that if the firmware update does not fix it the TC needs to be replaced as driving any further with this problem could potentially damage the transmission. WTF mr. service manager??? Next I will try to use the closest dealer to me for a second opinion with the letter in hand. And if that does not work I will try to speak with Acura Client Services as the letter suggests.

But I am pissed though. This and endless highway vibrations. For 09 TL CPO that I paid 32k for just 4 months ago it must be freaking smooth as glass. Especially since I still have factory warranty on it. Rant over.

Mr Marco

In the end, the TC might be the real issue, this is a cheap fix for Acura.

KarKraze

Maybe so,but they are making you work to get it done,first is the update,then if that doesn't do it they do the three fill/flush and if that still doesn't fix the issue then they have to go through the tech line to get approval to change the TC,in the meantime the customer has to go through the inconvience until such time that the decision is made to replace the TC.

To their credit the warranty has been upgraded to eight years or 168k kms.

Kingmeow

Ugh, now what????? I have the vibration when the car is around 28-32 MPH on a flat road and you hit the accelerator just right. Any other condition and it won't happen.

The vibration is like when the tranny is on one gear that is too high and is struggling to accelerate or the car is going over some rumble grooves in the road (like just before a toll plaza). Call it shuttering, rumbling, vibrating, whatever.

Did the software update and it did not fix it. Took it to the dealer and they said they couldn't reproduce (of course!). So I went back and rode with a tech where I was driving and sure enough he heard it. He said they were never able to reproduce it (of course!) and I was able to do it in less than 5 minutes.

With the problem reproduced, they replaced the torque converter. Guess what, that didn't fix it at all! The vibrating seems to be attenuated a little but it still vibrates/rumbles at the same speed range, 28-32 MPH.

Now I know they reset the computer because my clock was off by 2 hours so maybe the computer is still learning my driving style?

Is it possible that it was happening for such a long time that now there's damage to the tranny? The software notice did say that it not taken care of it can damage the transmission.

What next????? I've had other annoying issues before this and I've been to the dealer more often than I did for my prevoius two cars combined. My wife said to just trade it in but every time I check what's out there for the same price range, nothing appeals to me.

Should I bring this back to the dealer and perhaps have them check the tranny? Or should I wait until the problem gets worse? I don't want to hear the same crap of "We can't reproduce it". It has wasted a lot of my time and bringing it back could mean another week (they had the car for a week to do the work). I am still under warranty and I have an extended 6/120,000.

REALLY DISAPPOINTING!

Tonyware

Your clock was off by 2 hours? I thought it gets the time from the GPS. If they didn't take it out for a test drive after re-entering the code that I am sure the dealership knows, then I think you should take it back and ask them to double check their work... maybe they forgot a wrench in there

Kingmeow

You're propably right about the GPS but I don't have the Tech version. (Should have!) The first thing I noticed was that the seat position was not right and that pressing the "1" didn't set it back to my preference. That was when I checked the clock....

They said they had to disconnect the battery which I understand when you are doing major work like that.

Tonyware

The process says they should re-program the clock and also save your radio saved frequencies and re-program them after. Also they need to do the idle learn procedure using the HDC tablet computer and the window re-learn procedure. I wonder if they did any of those? If not, it sounds like a sloppy job to me. I mean, if they don't follow process from A to Z then what else did they forget? Thats not engineering, its more like voodoo LOL.

Kingmeow

Thanks for the info! That's good to know as I have an appointment with them next Monday to revisit this probldem.

Would they have listed this Idle reLearn procedure on the invoice or would that be "too detailed for the consumer"? They did list the 4-wheel alignment with the TC change out.

And if they didn't do the idle relearning what happens? Would that explain still feeling the shuddering at the same range of speed?

BTW, the radio did not loose presets - weird! All stations across all bands were fine.

Tonyware

The re-learn happens by itself after a few days of driving when the computer fills out the entire fuel map, plus a few more settings... or they just use the computer to program it at the shop. Weird for the radio, yes. I am curious to know the part number of the converter they installed. Is it on the invoice? The number has changed since the part has been modified.

Kingmeow

Ah, good point! They could have installed a "normal" remanufactured TC.

The part number on the invoice is: 2600-RYE-416

Do you know if this is the redesigned TC or the old one? If it's the old one, it makes sense that there has been NO change since the repair.

BTW Tony, thanks for all your help in this! It's very frustrating when it's up to the customer to diagnose the issue. Like everyone here we're all car guys but my time is valuable and limited. As they say in business I want this done "Right First Time".

godawgs10tlshawd

Mine was done about a month ago. Prior I noticed a vibration in the driveline when driving in town at moderate speeds usually in 4th or 5th gear. Now this is gone, I don't notice much else.

Kingmeow

Can you check your invoice and see if it's the same part number that was on my invoice, 2600-RYE-416?

Thanks!

Tonyware

Thank you for your good words. Part 26000RYE406 is replaced by 26000RYE416. In later years, like 2011 it is 26000RYE319, don't know why but its perhaps because other things have changed with the 2011 model. One thing for sure, when I read the "RYE" in the middle of a part it brings back some bad memories... (some other time I'll tell you all about that!).

Kingmeow

Hmmm...this is interesting! So it looks like they did put in the right part or they didn't do what they said in the invoice.

I wonder if this is new data that is just coming in...that if you don't replace the TC quick enough, the tranny gets screwed. Great! Possible new tranny at 43k???

Anyway, I'm dropping off the car Monday and see what they have to say...again!

Rye, NY?

KarKraze

Tell us about it now Tony,we could use a good story while waiting for the tranny issue to be resolved lol.

Kingmeow

Oh dear, hope this is not going the way of the 3Gen TL tranny problems. I got a call from my dealer and they are replacing the entire tranny!

They said since the software update and a TC replacement didn't work, they doubt that yet another TC replacment will fix it. The dealer said this is on the advise of Corporate. They want to be on the safe side since the new tranny will "have a TC that is matched to it".

Good thing is that it was painless on my end, no fighting with the dealer, etc. Bad thing is what does this say about the tranny design? Time for a trade? This is the first time I've had a car that has a tranny replaced...and at 40k miles to boot!!! C'mon this is an Acura, not a Chevy!

Kingmeow

UPDATE:

Just before they were about to order the new tranny, Corporate double checked everything with the dealer and both noticed that the software was the incorrect version! As it turned out, the first time I brought the car in for the software update, it wasn't done correctly. Now it made total sense as after the update I noticed that NOTHING has changed with the car.

So they did the software update for real this time and it seems to be holding fine. I did noticed, as others earlier have pointed out, the car seems peppier due to the higher RPM in the lower speed ranges. The dealer was very accomodating with this issue and we were just chatting when I went to pick up the car and the concensus was that the TC probably didn't need to be replaced had the software went in correctly the first time. Oh well, a "new" TC.

From just a visual estimate, it seems like they move the RMP about 500+ higher, thus keeping away from the inbetween range where the TC shudders and vibrates.


A couple of thoughts with this fix:

• Is this a band-aid solution by Acura? Basically, "what can we do short of an official recall that would cost millions?". Since this seems to be an "after design" fix, no one knows the long term effect on the TC/tranny (or other drivetrain components) due to the higher RPM that the car stays in when it starts from a stand still. I doubt Acura did any long term studies or analysis on this effect of higer RPMs in the lower speed ranges on wear, etc.
• How does this affect the rated MPG for city driving? I can understand highway driving will probalby not be affected. But with a lot of stop and go and keeping the engine in a higher RPM, that has got to have some effect on mileage each time you start from a red light.

I guess time will tell but I don't want to find out five years from now there's a tranny recall...

emanon256

In my case, driving the same commute for a few months before and a few months after, my city mileage dropped from 17.4mpg to 14.8mpg which is quite annoying. Same drive every day. Mostly flat. Not much stop and go but a lot of lights. I have not changed my driving habits. I haven't done any highway driving during this time. Since we only have the car seat in my wifes car, mine has beern for commuting only for a while now. I am annoyed about the drop. I use an app on my phone to track the actual MPG at each fill up.

Kingmeow

Wow! Dropping 2.6 MPG is SIGNIFICANT!! Thanks for the data point. That's what I mean in that this sounds like a band-aid fix. Yes, it "addresses" the problem but let the owners pay for it with lower MPG (and whatever problems comes along with higher revving RPMS down the road).

Just wondering if you have ever brought this up at the Service Department. Granted this is a corporate problem and has nothing to do with the dealer.

emanon256

I have been meaning to bring it up to the dealer. Also I want them to look at the TC because I still get the jitter. I just have not had a chance. I will eventually and report back.

Kingmeow

Please do report back. So you got the software update and not the TC replacement? My dealer said that if it happens again I would get a new tranny, no if's and's or but's.

emanon256

Yes, I got the software only. They told me that it would be impossible for the TC to have been damaged since I only have 49,000 miles. I disagreed with them, but they wouldn't budge. I am not a big fan of my dealer.

Kingmeow

Tell them that you know someone who had his replaced at 43,500 miles.

acuTL2010

I have the same problem between 20 to 45 growling noise and vibration, this is annoying brought back to dealer 4 time already and they say is normal then i brought to another dealer say the same thing is normal this frustrated!

Kingmeow

Did you get the technical advisory in the mail from Acura? If the 4x you went was before then, go back with the letter and tell them to fix it!!!!!

acuTL2010

Yes i did get technical advisory in the mail. I even show them the letter from recall from Acura and they say is normal!

Kingmeow

WOW! That sucks! I would Acura HQ and complain like hell!

crxb

I have noticed the same drop in city mpg!

Kingmeow

This is smelling more and more like a band-aid fix for Acura. Fix the problem at the expense of MPG, which means we bought a car that did not match the MPG rating on the sticker! I wonder if that's a violation of Federal regulations...

emanon256

I reported the MPG drop to my dealer and they said that's just how its programed now. They said the old programming gave better gas mileage, but Acura determined it was damaging the vehicles. I reported the problem to Acura Client Relations. They gave me a generic response stating that I need to work with my dealers service department on this issue. Since the weather got cold, I am now averaging 13.4 city, and I don't drive erratically. That's a 4 mpg drop in my city mileage. I am not sure what to do.

Kingmeow

Wow, that's some wise-ass answer to work with your dealer on resolving the MPG!!!! Yeah, we're going to re-engineer the tranny for you Acura!

That does seem like a big drop. I haven't reported back yet because I'm still trying to sense what this fix does for the MPG. Realize that this is a gut feeling on my part and not a pure scientific test.

So far, with the winter temps and winter blend gas I haven't notice much change in MPG. I notice there has been a slight drop but it's not significant enough to attribute it to this software fix.

For me, I will have to drive it some more and I don't drive as much now as I did say a year ago as I work from home now. So for the folks following this thread I'll report back when I sense a more stable MPG reading from the car.

So far I have not detected any alarming drop and my driving habits/condition hasn't changed. That doesn't mean I won't see any significant changes over the next few weeks.

RIneuron

no significant change foe me. 19-20 overall 2010 AWD.

Sav2010TL

Never really heard the growl until I received the software update letter from Acura. Then I turned down the radio and there it was. Damn! Took it in for the update. Its been over a month now and the car still does the growl/jutter when I am going between 30-40mph. Like others it has actually gotten worse over the past few weeks. Time to take it back I guess.

emanon256

I pushed back on my dealer, they are now insisting the drop is due to the cold weather blend in gasoline and has nothing to do with the software, and that Acura told them the software won't change the MPG. I am also making them look at the TC a third time, they insist it does not need to be replaces due to my low mileage (50,000). Yet I still have the jutter after the software update, just much less frequently. They are going to look at it next week.

Funny how last winter I was averaging much better in city driving. I used to think I had pretty good gas mileage for a 3.7 Liter engine with AWD. Now I am sorely disappointed.

emanon256

My third time at the dealer. They are insisting the continued jutter and grumble are normal and refuse to do anything about it. And they insisting that the drop in MPG must be because I am buying gas with water in it. They will not budge on either, or even contact Acura, and they refuse to replace the TC.

Also one of my seat belts won't retract, and they are insisting it is not covered under warranty.

How do I report them?

I am ready to trade this in, not because of the problems as I know they can be fixed, but because of the service.

diamondmit

If your mileage is below 72,000 miles, I think they are required to replace the seatbelt as it is a warrantied safety item - unfortunately, I could be very wrong about this because I'm basing this on my experience w/Lexus, but even if the mileage is wrong I think you've got a case. I'd go to the district Acura rep. I'll see if I can find out w/the Acura guys in the Boston area.

diamondmit

Acura Warranties (2010 TL)
Basic (mths/miles): 48/50,000 miles
Powertrain (mths/miles): 72/72,000
Corrosion Perforation (mths/miles): 60/unlimited
Roadside Assistance (mths/miles): 48/50,000
Accessories (mths/miles): 48/50,000

How many miles do you have?