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Old 04-10-2007, 2:26 PM   #1
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High Boost Pulley on S/C

Ok....I finally got itchy today, egged on by some friends inviting me to go down to the drag strip tonight for Tuesday night street drags @ O'Reilly Raceway Park....sooooo.....I whipped on the high boost pulley while I was home at lunch. Install was fairly simple...needed no special tools whatsoever. Took me all of ten minutes after I took a look at what needed to be done. You have to loosen some brackets for the A/C hose on that side that runs right by the pulley....but it moves out of the way once you remove the bracket (timer @ 1.5 mins). Then you just remove the belt by putting some pressure on the belt tensioner, and then remove the bolt that holds the pulley on, the pulley will then with very slight pressure on the back side....come right off. (timer @ 5.5 mins)

Then you simply align the smaller comptech high boost pulley up with the keyway...slide it onto the shaft.....reinstall the bolt....reinstall the belt......(timer @ 8 mins)...then you reattach the A/C bracket that holds the hose out of the way of the pulley movement and you are ready to go. (timer at 10 mins)

It is a VERY easy project that takes no time at all. First impression...WOW...it does make a bit of a difference. Have only driven it to the office now...but should be able to tell you more later. But very easy project that takes a minimal amt of skills. Put it this way...I did it in work clothes while I was home at lunch. It seems more punchy now and the surging problems have moved. They havent disappeared...just moved. Hard to explain now...but will be able to tell more later. Hopefully it helps me out at the track tonight! Seems to take off a bit harder.
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Old 04-10-2007, 3:06 PM   #2
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WOW, Mike I'm glad you like it and it's great that it was so easy for you to install it, but be careful with that pulley, drive normally for a little while to see if the car likes it or not before really pushing it!

You do have the gauges right, AFR, Boost, FP? What are your readings? I would personally go on Dyno and see what's up! Plus if the boost went up a lot, you'll need the cooling now so much more, more boost=more heat!

My car currently runs pig rich with a custom j-pipe, like in the low tens. I have the pulley too, I will most likely slap it on to see if it can lean me out a bit! But again I'm dyno tuning my car to see the changes not just going blind into this!

Well good luck and please update here on the pulley performance!
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Old 04-10-2007, 3:49 PM   #3
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I have been patiently waiting to put my HBP on. Let us know if you get any CEL's. Also maybe you could explain the suging moving? Does it happen at a different RPM now? Good luck at the track tonight. Let us know your results.
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Old 04-10-2007, 3:54 PM   #4
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Not sure I am going to the track now....the meet spot was changed on me....got the call...they were leaving in 20 minutes, then called back....they were pulling out. I dont play catch up well (too old for that shit)...so I am likely to skip it at this point damnit.
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Old 04-11-2007, 9:14 AM   #5
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Any CEL's yet? How is it running?
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Old 04-11-2007, 12:09 PM   #6
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NO CEL's whatsover....not a problem with runnability at all. I DID actually end up making it down to the track last night (after going home and sitting around....I decided WTF and went anyway) and lets just say it was too damn cold last night. Lost track of my initial tire rotation to heat the tires up and smoked em fairly bad...which resulted in HUGE spin at the start to about half track. It was kinda funny and got me nowhere fast. I had fun though.
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Old 04-11-2007, 1:27 PM   #7
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I might have to put mine soon.
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Old 04-11-2007, 2:17 PM   #8
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Do you have any times for us?
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Old 04-11-2007, 5:39 PM   #9
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Won't that make you run crazy lean... which is a big engine no no?
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Old 04-11-2007, 5:43 PM   #10
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ok maybe i'm confused...i didn't think the HBP was just plug and play. i thought A/F ratios needed to be messed with to avoid detonation...???

so you're saying you just pull out the old pulley and replace it with the HBP and you're good to go??
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Old 04-11-2007, 8:23 PM   #11
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When I had my HBP on, i was still running rich. But obviously some kind of tuning would be best.
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Old 04-11-2007, 8:35 PM   #12
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No way this mod is plug and play unless you don't give a fuck about your engine that is, dyno run and gauges are you friends my dear dudes so it ain't as easy as shlapping this on...

Mikey I warned you man, don't be stupid!

Lookinco had this little pulley on his ride for a while but he was smart enough to take it off in time when he started seeing problems with his car!
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Old 04-11-2007, 8:41 PM   #13
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Hey lookinco it's good that you posted, I was writing when you posted so I didn't see your post, shit, haha, so you were still rich huh, but less so right and weren't you chemically cooled too?
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Old 04-11-2007, 9:39 PM   #14
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Keep us updated on the driveability with the HBP. If all is good then maybe i'll go ahead and install one as well. Thanks for the writeup...you're the man.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:25 PM   #15
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Yes i was chemically cooled with the boost cooler. I remember when I had the HBP on, the highest spot of the A/F was around 12.0:1 to 12.5:1 at the top end.
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Old 04-12-2007, 1:16 AM   #16
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yes, we can just bolt it on and go. But it would be nice to know what afr is at all points, if the stock injectors are maxed out, or if timing is within the area it should be. My HBP is just sitting in a box somewhere.. hehe.
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Old 04-12-2007, 9:20 AM   #17
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Cold + wheelspin to half-track = still want to see the time!
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Old 04-12-2007, 11:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Hooligan317
Cold + wheelspin to half-track = still want to see the time!
None of em were real respectable....I can tell you that! The one where I suffered from wheel spin the worst was like 16.... ....best I was able to pull off all night was a 14.4. Basically...with a good hookup (tires) and the right driver...this car should only pull 13.5 at best....especially being an automatic. I have a video of the very first terrible run....and I think the comment was made on another site somewhere....that there was a guy out there with a supercharged TL that must HATE his tires or be a complete retard....lol.....that was me. First time trying to get that thing to launch was interesting at best...lets put it that way. The run...flat out sucked! I am starting to think I would have been better off leaving the regular pulley on it given all it did was made me spin so badly damnit! You have to drive it too much through the first half of the track to get it to hook up at all.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:27 PM   #19
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No worries, the car is pretty sick. The weather here in Indy hasn't been kind to anyone.
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Old 04-12-2007, 2:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hooligan317
No worries, the car is pretty sick. The weather here in Indy hasn't been kind to anyone.
I have some vids of it, just cant get it uploaded right now. Apparently some type of issue with photobucket and videos now....something to do with MySpace....something I dont get involved in.
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Old 04-12-2007, 7:45 PM   #21
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where can i get this pulley while we r on this topic
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Old 04-13-2007, 12:19 AM   #22
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MB, how did you torque it down?

Did you ever find out how your UR pulley was installed to torque specs? Thanks
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Old 04-13-2007, 6:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjS
MB, how did you torque it down?

Did you ever find out how your UR pulley was installed to torque specs? Thanks
I just torqued to down by hand/wrench to "very snug" - the bolt came off fairly easy....so I just torqued it down "about" the same. There is no room for a torque wrench on that end bolt unless you remove the supercharger...so I just used a combo wrench on it. There is a keyway on the pulley also....so its not like the torque is overly important there....so long as its tight, but not over tight. So far as the UR pulley....no....I havent asked yet. I forgot. Will check today if I get a chance.
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Old 04-13-2007, 6:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by amm1232710
where can i get this pulley while we r on this topic
If you can find somebody in the black market forum selling one is about the only way at this point as Comptech is no longer in business. There is also somebody on ebay selling HBP's ... but I dont know if they will fit out superchargers or not. The comptech supercharger is a paxton unit, I talked to them about it once....and they could not tell me if it fit or not. I happened to get mine in the last Comptech blowout sale before they dumped all their inventory to Acura of Linwood. You might also try there as well...but I think all the pullies were sold before they bought out the inventory.
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Old 04-14-2007, 1:27 PM   #25
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is this the right pulley


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compt...spagenameZWD1V
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Old 04-14-2007, 5:15 PM   #26
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i thought the pulley used the same belt
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Old 04-14-2007, 5:54 PM   #27
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I don't think that's the right pulley. I believe the HBP is 3.0". I will measure mine later in a bit.

And yes you use the same belt with the HBP
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Old 04-14-2007, 7:01 PM   #28
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Hello:

I just measured mine, which I got from Comptech about two weeks ago and it is 3".

According to Hondata, they may be looking to do a re-flash that the HBP could be used without any additional mods or higher Octane gas.

No date for such a re-flash was given.

I have NOT put my HBP on my car yet and I'm not sure when I will.

I have to deal with this P0430 code first.

Tim
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Old 04-14-2007, 8:10 PM   #29
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Does anyone know the maximum RPM that our supercharger can spin up to?
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Old 04-14-2007, 8:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amm1232710
I saw that pulley and talked to those people and they could not verify that it would fit our application. I was checking those out before I called comptech and got the last purchase from them! The HBP is a 3" pulley though.
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Old 04-14-2007, 8:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ussi
i thought the pulley used the same belt
This comptech HBP does use the same belt. The belt tensioner just takes up the slack. Not a big deal or a great amt of slack involved....at least on mine anyway. The supplied belt was kinda tight to begin with.
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Old 04-14-2007, 8:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k6biv
Hello:

I just measured mine, which I got from Comptech about two weeks ago and it is 3".

According to Hondata, they may be looking to do a re-flash that the HBP could be used without any additional mods or higher Octane gas.

No date for such a re-flash was given.

I have NOT put my HBP on my car yet and I'm not sure when I will.

I have to deal with this P0430 code first.

Tim
That would be sweet....we could use a reflash! Not sure about your P0430 code....gotta research that one. Mine has never tossed ANY codes whatsoever.
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Old 04-14-2007, 8:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookinco
Does anyone know the maximum RPM that our supercharger can spin up to?
Nope.....sure dont. I know it is limited at around 7000 -7200 through the piggy back unit...but what the actual max recommended RPM at the blower itself...never thought about it honestly. I figure if Comptech made the pulley and sold it....it was kosher, but probably pushes the supercharger to about the max it can take. I know they said that you were kinda on your own as it was untested greatly....but fact is...at that point and right now...we are on our own anyway! So I figured....WTF....you only live once. Havent regretted it up to now. AFR's are similar to what they were before too.

Now one thing you guys just gotta accept though.....you ARE likely to blow out the cats eventually being supercharged using the HBP or not. Thats something I kinda knew going into it. Some are breaking them down faster than others due to meth or NOS...and that is to be expected too. IMO what they should have done at that point was install a HBP....try removing all the cats and putting in sims. to remove the CEL's and tried that on for size. I bet with some tuning and adjusting of the pipe sizing would have yielded something and acceptable operation range. But that is some R&D and theory there....so it may not work either. Just something I was thinking about the other night.
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:01 PM   #34
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Smile Don't worry about it...

The Eaton M62 blower can spin safely up to 17,000 rpm. After that you are well out of the adiabatic efficiency range but it could still spin even higher since it is smaller than a Eaton M90 or M112.

Max rpm could be 24,000 which is well below what the pulley you are going to put on will get you.

Please remember that turning the blower faster does not necessarily make more power. As it takes power to turn the supercharger. On my M90S it's almost 35 HP to turn the supercharger at WOT with 10-psi of boost. My discharge temperatures after the supercharger and intercooler are 160-170 degrees F. depeding on the ambient temperatures.

Without a intercooler you guys are most likely around 220 degrees F. with 6-psi of boost. THAT IS REALLY HOT AIR. The hotter the air, the less dense and the less spark available to ignite the air fuel mixture. Thermodynamics 101...compressed air is hot! More compression of the air charge means hotter discharge temperatures.

More boost therefore does not always mean more power, in fact you don't want boost, you want air flow or . I know this hard to grasp, but the fact that you have 1-psi of boost means you have a cork in the system.

A-Train
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain
The Eaton M62 blower can spin safely up to 17,000 rpm. After that you are well out of the adiabatic efficiency range but it could still spin even higher since it is smaller than a Eaton M90 or M112.

Max rpm could be 24,000 which is well below what the pulley you are going to put on will get you.

Please remember that turning the blower faster does not necessarily make more power. As it takes power to turn the supercharger. On my M90S it's almost 35 HP to turn the supercharger at WOT with 10-psi of boost. My discharge temperatures after the supercharger and intercooler are 160-170 degrees F. depeding on the ambient temperatures.

Without a intercooler you guys are most likely around 220 degrees F. with 6-psi of boost. THAT IS REALLY HOT AIR. The hotter the air, the less dense and the less spark available to ignite the air fuel mixture. Thermodynamics 101...compressed air is hot! More compression of the air charge means hotter discharge temperatures.

More boost therefore does not always mean more power, in fact you don't want boost, you want air flow or . I know this hard to grasp, but the fact that you have 1-psi of boost means you have a cork in the system.

A-Train
Then would not opening up the exhaust a little more in this case help the issue at all so far as helping move air through the system or removing the cats as I was thinking above? Not sure...just theorizing here...I agree with what you said above.....I expected IAT's to be WAY up with this pulley, my eventual idea was to incorporate in intercooler setup into the system...but that is down the road a few.
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Old 04-15-2007, 1:32 PM   #36
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So MichealBenz, what are thoughts thus far with the HBP? Could you explain the surging associated with it? Any CEL's? Approximate HP/TQ increase?
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Old 04-15-2007, 1:40 PM   #37
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Thumbs up Yes...

MichaelBenz,

Open the exhaust and boost drops. The boost is dropping because air is not stacking up as much. So the system becomes more efficient.

Open the inlet side of the supercharger and boost goes up. Here efficiency on the inlet causes more boost to stack up.

It's all relevant and in the end it really depends on the ACT's (air charge temp after the supercharger). I can calculate all the numbers if you want...but the math never lies.

N= PV/RT

Using this example from testing I've done.

The M90 blower at 608 , 14,000 blower rpm, generate 6-psi of boost on a 4.6L Mustang GT engine. The discharge temperature is 217 degrees F. The power required to spin the supercharger is 33-35 HP.

The same M90 at 608 , 14,000 blower rpm, but generating 12-psi of boost; discharges air at 320 degrees F. and requires 50 HP to turn the supercharger.

So you have 100 degrees hotter air and you need 15 more horsepower to turn the supercharger.

What have you gained?

Also the smaller diameter pulley might require a shorter belt since it is possible there could be slippage. I had that problem when I went from a 3" diameter pulley to a 2.52" diameter pulley. I needed to shorten the serpentine belt by 1.3" overall.

I have no clue how the belt is set-up on the TL to drive the blower and such.

I also am concerned with the amount of spark you will have available to ignite the A/F mixture. I had to drop the gap on my spark plugs from 0.054" (stock) to 0.036" with just 6-psi of boost.

Then I needed MSD coil packs to help keep 10-psi igniting. This is a distributor-less ignition system with spark plug wires so the spark is very hot.

I have no idea what the TL's ignition can handle but I doubt you are going to be able to handle more boost without increasing the spark.

Remember, electricity is LAZY...it will go to the path of less resistance. If not firing is the path of less resistance...guess what?

A-Train
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Old 04-15-2007, 5:48 PM   #38
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Where would I be able to find more information regarding the spec of the M62 blower? Max RPM, efficiency, etc.
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Old 04-15-2007, 6:12 PM   #39
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I love it when Atrain posts his remarks. Always a solid post.
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Old 04-15-2007, 6:19 PM   #40
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Best place...

http://www.eatonperformance.com/superchargers/M62.html

Right from Eaton's website. You guys need to find out what generation your M62 is. Currently they are on GEN-V which is the best.

Most cars are still using the GEN-III type which is about 15 degrees hotter on the discharge air vs a GEN-V blower. My T-Bird uses a GEN-III M90 with a "S" port. So they call it an M90S.

I used to have flow charts for all the Eaton superchargers, but I discarded everything but the M90 and M112.

The M62 as far as I know is used on the Jackson Racing Ford Focus kits. You guys might want to research that site to see if they have any upgrades to improve efficiency of the supercharger. Porting is a great way to lower discharge air temps and increase the flow. I don't mean Bob and a Dremel...I mean calculated porting from an experienced porter or a CNC job.

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Old 04-15-2007, 6:19 PM
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