Group Buy for JnR ECU - Dyno's/Gains (12/23); Prices Posted (1/7)
12-22-2011, 08:25 AM
#161
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Tunes typically run from $400-600. I highly doubt you'd pay double.
12-22-2011, 08:27 AM
#162
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12-22-2011, 10:22 AM
#163
All motor
I'm going to email Rodney to see if he can do 4th gear dynos for this comparison. The reason I ask is, look at the difference in the initial 3rd and 4th gear dynos. In the 3rd gear dyno, once peak power is made, it holds steady to redline. On the 4th gear dyno, the power drops substantially after 6400. By substantially, I mean almost 10% (20hp). I'm not sure if Rodney let off up top (because the AFRs) are also very skewy after 6400. But I think a 4th gear comparison would be much more beneficial.
It's not a huge deal, but I'm sure Rodney knows that 4th gear is the optimal gear to dyno in. I'm not sure why he didn't do the comparison in 4th gear. I'm not knocking him, just saying that a 4th gear comparison would be better for our purposes.
Even the after dyno shows that we need to really open up the intake to make power to redline. Paul's 80mm throttle body will work wonders for a full bolt on car. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 10-15whp gains up top once tuned just from the 80mm TB/mani opening bored to 80mm. Civicdrivr saw 14whp/19wtq gains from just the 80mm setup untuned. He has a 3.6 with headwork, but also untuned. I'd go as far as to say our gains would almost emulate his once tuned. I'm sure he'd see 20/25 once tuned just from that setup alone! Then with cams and another tune I could see an additional 30+whp....Making power all the way to 7400-7500.....priceless.
It's not a huge deal, but I'm sure Rodney knows that 4th gear is the optimal gear to dyno in. I'm not sure why he didn't do the comparison in 4th gear. I'm not knocking him, just saying that a 4th gear comparison would be better for our purposes.
Even the after dyno shows that we need to really open up the intake to make power to redline. Paul's 80mm throttle body will work wonders for a full bolt on car. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 10-15whp gains up top once tuned just from the 80mm TB/mani opening bored to 80mm. Civicdrivr saw 14whp/19wtq gains from just the 80mm setup untuned. He has a 3.6 with headwork, but also untuned. I'd go as far as to say our gains would almost emulate his once tuned. I'm sure he'd see 20/25 once tuned just from that setup alone! Then with cams and another tune I could see an additional 30+whp....Making power all the way to 7400-7500.....priceless.
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12-22-2011, 10:44 AM
#164
12-22-2011, 11:00 AM
#166
All motor
I'm pretty sure 95% of members who installed that manifold/TB had leaking issues. Civicdrivr gained 14whp/19wtq from the 80mm setup by itself, untuned. Like I said, he had ported heads so that definitely made a difference. But at the same time, I believe some folks with the TL-SHAWD mani lost power because of leaking issues.
I know you can't really compare from car to car, but a Civic SI is using the 09 TL TB and gained something like 7-8whp on the 2.0. I think we definitely will gain from a larger TB. As long as the intake itself is large enough (>3"), I believe a nice gain will be seen up top from the 80mm setup. We get the air out just fine with the PCDs/Jpipe/Catback, the intake side is the next step.
I know you can't really compare from car to car, but a Civic SI is using the 09 TL TB and gained something like 7-8whp on the 2.0. I think we definitely will gain from a larger TB. As long as the intake itself is large enough (>3"), I believe a nice gain will be seen up top from the 80mm setup. We get the air out just fine with the PCDs/Jpipe/Catback, the intake side is the next step.
12-22-2011, 12:04 PM
#167
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Perfect !!! this should be easy for you !!!
12-22-2011, 12:14 PM
#168
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I'm going to email Rodney to see if he can do 4th gear dynos for this comparison. The reason I ask is, look at the difference in the initial 3rd and 4th gear dynos. In the 3rd gear dyno, once peak power is made, it holds steady to redline. On the 4th gear dyno, the power drops substantially after 6400. By substantially, I mean almost 10% (20hp). I'm not sure if Rodney let off up top (because the AFRs) are also very skewy after 6400. But I think a 4th gear comparison would be much more beneficial.
It's not a huge deal, but I'm sure Rodney knows that 4th gear is the optimal gear to dyno in. I'm not sure why he didn't do the comparison in 4th gear. I'm not knocking him, just saying that a 4th gear comparison would be better for our purposes.
Even the after dyno shows that we need to really open up the intake to make power to redline. Paul's 80mm throttle body will work wonders for a full bolt on car. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 10-15whp gains up top once tuned just from the 80mm TB/mani opening bored to 80mm. Civicdrivr saw 14whp/19wtq gains from just the 80mm setup untuned. He has a 3.6 with headwork, but also untuned. I'd go as far as to say our gains would almost emulate his once tuned. I'm sure he'd see 20/25 once tuned just from that setup alone! Then with cams and another tune I could see an additional 30+whp....Making power all the way to 7400-7500.....priceless.
It's not a huge deal, but I'm sure Rodney knows that 4th gear is the optimal gear to dyno in. I'm not sure why he didn't do the comparison in 4th gear. I'm not knocking him, just saying that a 4th gear comparison would be better for our purposes.
Even the after dyno shows that we need to really open up the intake to make power to redline. Paul's 80mm throttle body will work wonders for a full bolt on car. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 10-15whp gains up top once tuned just from the 80mm TB/mani opening bored to 80mm. Civicdrivr saw 14whp/19wtq gains from just the 80mm setup untuned. He has a 3.6 with headwork, but also untuned. I'd go as far as to say our gains would almost emulate his once tuned. I'm sure he'd see 20/25 once tuned just from that setup alone! Then with cams and another tune I could see an additional 30+whp....Making power all the way to 7400-7500.....priceless.
stock ECU 3rd gear...power stays up even after 6400 rpm:
stock ECU 4th gear....power drops after 6400 rpm:
MS3 4th gear....power drops after 6400 rpm:
I do have a 72mm bored TB and port matched TB spacer + P2R Thermal Gaskets and Intake Manifold....I had pnp-ed the manifold + runners + MDX spacer + P2R gaskets before....the minute i got the Bored TB the mid range + top end was insane....but yeah am looking to dyno before the ECU and after the ECU with and without the MDX spacer.....lets see which yields better results....
I'm pretty sure 95% of members who installed that manifold/TB had leaking issues. Civicdrivr gained 14whp/19wtq from the 80mm setup by itself, untuned. Like I said, he had ported heads so that definitely made a difference. But at the same time, I believe some folks with the TL-SHAWD mani lost power because of leaking issues.
I know you can't really compare from car to car, but a Civic SI is using the 09 TL TB and gained something like 7-8whp on the 2.0. I think we definitely will gain from a larger TB. As long as the intake itself is large enough (>3"), I believe a nice gain will be seen up top from the 80mm setup. We get the air out just fine with the PCDs/Jpipe/Catback, the intake side is the next step.
I know you can't really compare from car to car, but a Civic SI is using the 09 TL TB and gained something like 7-8whp on the 2.0. I think we definitely will gain from a larger TB. As long as the intake itself is large enough (>3"), I believe a nice gain will be seen up top from the 80mm setup. We get the air out just fine with the PCDs/Jpipe/Catback, the intake side is the next step.
so i will have pretty much all the mods your taking about
Last edited by swoosh; 12-22-2011 at 12:17 PM.
12-22-2011, 02:00 PM
#169
All motor
^^ Good to know. We can only get so much air in with our stock TBs. I'm pretty sure mine is only 66mm, so the Maxbore 68mm TB ain't cuttin' it. I'd love to throw the 80mm setup on there and start moving some serious air! Then of course I'd have to have the runners port-matched as well Do it on the cams. I'm sure you will gain over 20whp alone. Very sure actually 
What I meant about the dynos is that if you look at the 3rd gear (1st graph) and compare it to the 4th gear (2nd graph), the graph drops significantly more on the 4th gear dyno up top. At about 6600RPM, power drops from ~225 to 200 at the 6800RPM redline. The 3rd gear dyno plains off around 6600, only losing at most 4whp at redline. That's a huge difference.
The graph after the ECU drops off significantly as well. It was said to have been done in 3rd gear. I was a little confused how it stayed within 2% of peak power from 6600 to redline on the untuned graph, yet dropped 10% over the same RPMs with the tuned graph.
CORRECTION: Rodney just emailed me back (lengthy and detailed)! He is definitely as great a guy as previously mentioned. He said the runs with the JnR were done in 4th gear btw.
Do it on the cams. I'm sure you will gain over 20whp alone. Very sure actually What I meant about the dynos is that if you look at the 3rd gear (1st graph) and compare it to the 4th gear (2nd graph), the graph drops significantly more on the 4th gear dyno up top. At about 6600RPM, power drops from ~225 to 200 at the 6800RPM redline. The 3rd gear dyno plains off around 6600, only losing at most 4whp at redline. That's a huge difference.
The graph after the ECU drops off significantly as well. It was said to have been done in 3rd gear. I was a little confused how it stayed within 2% of peak power from 6600 to redline on the untuned graph, yet dropped 10% over the same RPMs with the tuned graph.
CORRECTION: Rodney just emailed me back (lengthy and detailed)! He is definitely as great a guy as previously mentioned. He said the runs with the JnR were done in 4th gear btw.
12-22-2011, 02:07 PM
#170
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^^^ maxbore did mine to ~72mm (its 71.xx)....just email him (George) and ask him to MAXBORE that bishhhh LOL...
i was mistaken earlier and then i went back to see the power drop off after 6400K rpm and i was like DAMN thats in 4th gear
which only says the gains are like:
22whp/17wtq
i was mistaken earlier and then i went back to see the power drop off after 6400K rpm and i was like DAMN thats in 4th gear
which only says the gains are like:
22whp/17wtq
12-22-2011, 02:13 PM
#171
All motor
Oh I'm not downplaying the gains. The gains are incredible! I was just saying that drop in power kinda sucks at redline. Hence opening up the intake
If I do go with a larger TB, it will definitely be the 80mm. I was originally gonna try the TL SHAWD mani, but with the amount of problems people have been having, I think I'll stay away. I'd really love to because I'd be able to sell my ported manifold then and make some money back, but if I installed it and got CELs and leaks, I'd be very pissed.
If I do go with a larger TB, it will definitely be the 80mm. I was originally gonna try the TL SHAWD mani, but with the amount of problems people have been having, I think I'll stay away. I'd really love to because I'd be able to sell my ported manifold then and make some money back, but if I installed it and got CELs and leaks, I'd be very pissed.
12-22-2011, 02:14 PM
#172
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^^^ thats what am worried about as well...
again, if you can tune it and throw bigger injectors, you will be making tons of more power !!!
again, if you can tune it and throw bigger injectors, you will be making tons of more power !!!
12-22-2011, 02:15 PM
#173
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bringing the list over to this page:
The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12.
The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12.
12-22-2011, 09:48 PM
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lets get 2-3 more people....so close....
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12-23-2011, 10:33 AM
#177
All motor
12-23-2011, 11:53 AM
#179
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The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
12-23-2011, 12:10 PM
#180
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^^^ finally he is on the list LOL
Well was I right or was I right....the car with "special PCD's" and ECU made 271 whp
Rodney flooded my email with graphs/video's
LOL....am uploading em to youtube now and will post em up in a little bit....
in the mean time let me explain "special" PCD's....they are 1 piece header which eliminate stock PreCats, Jpipe and 3rd Cat....and have a 2.5" outlet.....I think Rodney will start selling these eventually....anyway onto the pix/vids.....
Well was I right or was I right....the car with "special PCD's" and ECU made 271 whp
Rodney flooded my email with graphs/video's
LOL....am uploading em to youtube now and will post em up in a little bit....in the mean time let me explain "special" PCD's....they are 1 piece header which eliminate stock PreCats, Jpipe and 3rd Cat....and have a 2.5" outlet.....I think Rodney will start selling these eventually....anyway onto the pix/vids.....
12-23-2011, 12:22 PM
#181
All motor
Get those graphs up! 25whp after upgrading to the PCDs and a tune! Son of a b****!
12-23-2011, 12:40 PM
#183
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@Sonnick: yeah, i was kinda expecting that....since the cats are choking up the path, no matter how free flowing your rest of the exhaust is, it doesnt matter you see
@Fenda rolla: here they are
4th gear, stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, MS3 ECU:
Videos:
3rd and 4th gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 93 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-TGcECOj_M
3rd gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 108 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9cNJ5hg0Dg
4th gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 108 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IcQfeKpKY
Torque = Flat line. 4th gear. MS3. 93 Octane
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BRHEAEcG4
Vtec @ 4800 rpm. 4th gear. MS3. 93 Octane - MUST WATCH
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nUmyDtidTU
Different VTEC engagement points explained
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2NA_OQgKeM
Graph comparisions to VTEC at 5000rpm
PS: Steven Bell you have a PM to change the thread heading once again
@Fenda rolla: here they are
4th gear, stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, MS3 ECU:
Videos:
3rd and 4th gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 93 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-TGcECOj_M
3rd gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 108 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9cNJ5hg0Dg
4th gear run with stock vtec engagement, "special" PCD-Jpipe-3rd cat delete, Greddy Exhaust, AEM V2 intake, STOCK ECU, 108 Octane:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IcQfeKpKY
Torque = Flat line. 4th gear. MS3. 93 Octane
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BRHEAEcG4
Vtec @ 4800 rpm. 4th gear. MS3. 93 Octane - MUST WATCH
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nUmyDtidTU
Different VTEC engagement points explained
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2NA_OQgKeM
Graph comparisions to VTEC at 5000rpm
PS: Steven Bell you have a PM to change the thread heading once again
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12-23-2011, 01:55 PM
#185
All motor
All I can say is wow. Forget the actual numbers. The gains are freaking ridiculous. The entire powerband gained 15-20hp/tq! Not to mention how flat and smooth it stays throughout. The low end gain is amazing, midrange gain is amazing (especially after the VTEC engagement was changed, and the top end insane!
I can't even express how impressed I am. Rodney you are the man. This is epic. That torque curve is just absurd. You can balance an egg on that curve. In terms of real world gains, I'm sure the car feels completely different. If I'm not mistaken, he's making 90% of peak torque at like 2500rpm. What a Christmas gift this is!!!
I can't even express how impressed I am. Rodney you are the man. This is epic. That torque curve is just absurd. You can balance an egg on that curve. In terms of real world gains, I'm sure the car feels completely different. If I'm not mistaken, he's making 90% of peak torque at like 2500rpm. What a Christmas gift this is!!!
Niceee!
12-23-2011, 02:33 PM
#188
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Not a problem bro....
I remember how everyone was like vtec at 4K is awesome LOL....after seeing this everyone will push vtec to 5K :P
This....exactly what I was thinking.....am so glad am on this band wagon....so you gonna jump on this as well sonnick ? 
not as fast at moi
I remember how everyone was like vtec at 4K is awesome LOL....after seeing this everyone will push vtec to 5K :P
All I can say is wow. Forget the actual numbers. The gains are freaking ridiculous. The entire powerband gained 15-20hp/tq! Not to mention how flat and smooth it stays throughout. The low end gain is amazing, midrange gain is amazing (especially after the VTEC engagement was changed, and the top end insane!
I can't even express how impressed I am. Rodney you are the man. This is epic. That torque curve is just absurd. You can balance an egg on that curve. In terms of real world gains, I'm sure the car feels completely different. If I'm not mistaken, he's making 90% of peak torque at like 2500rpm. What a Christmas gift this is!!!
I can't even express how impressed I am. Rodney you are the man. This is epic. That torque curve is just absurd. You can balance an egg on that curve. In terms of real world gains, I'm sure the car feels completely different. If I'm not mistaken, he's making 90% of peak torque at like 2500rpm. What a Christmas gift this is!!!
not as fast at moi
12-23-2011, 02:54 PM
#190
The Track Terror
This really throws the VTEC community on its head...
12-23-2011, 04:37 PM
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(and meet Inaccurate )I might be very close to that number with the ECU....even thow i might be getting cams before it, dont know yet, but i might just pull the trigger on it....talking to Bisi so that he can become a vendor here and the community + members benefit for it....
12-23-2011, 04:38 PM
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12-23-2011, 08:32 PM
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The list:
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13.
14.
15.
1. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace
2. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
3. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531
4. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
5. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
6. fenda rolla - 07 base AT
7. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speeed-
8. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
9. r3devi7 - '04 AT
10. Joey tl - 04 TL
11. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
12. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT
13.
14.
15.
12-23-2011, 09:23 PM
#197
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Just couple more....I know out of this list Rodney should get around 8-9 payments for sure....just wanting another 1-2 confirmed people
12-23-2011, 11:32 PM
#198
N0w $hiftinG N/A
^^^ finally he is on the list LOL
Well was I right or was I right....the car with "special PCD's" and ECU made 271 whp
Rodney flooded my email with graphs/video's LOL....am uploading em to youtube now and will post em up in a little bit....
in the mean time let me explain "special" PCD's....they are 1 piece header which eliminate stock PreCats, Jpipe and 3rd Cat....and have a 2.5" outlet.....I think Rodney will start selling these eventually....anyway onto the pix/vids.....
Well was I right or was I right....the car with "special PCD's" and ECU made 271 whp
Rodney flooded my email with graphs/video's
LOL....am uploading em to youtube now and will post em up in a little bit....in the mean time let me explain "special" PCD's....they are 1 piece header which eliminate stock PreCats, Jpipe and 3rd Cat....and have a 2.5" outlet.....I think Rodney will start selling these eventually....anyway onto the pix/vids.....
12-23-2011, 11:36 PM
#199
The videos are amazing and are just what everyone has been looking for.
This has been long overdue and kudos again to Rodney for being a leader in the industry and stepping up for the TL community.
Is there any chance we can see some of JPEG's for the above dyno runs.
I think the comparison plots are what everyone is keen to see in more detail.
I want to be able to fully appreciate the beauty of these gains.
12-23-2011, 11:54 PM
#200
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so let me get this correct swoosh these special headers work with the v3 pcds and hfpc correct and basically its like headears which connects to the pcds which its even more gains also I must say OMG gosh that 4th gear pull by raising the vtec the TL world is about to change rapidly right now its like history in the making.All i can say is good problems with encounters lol.
I dont know if Rodney will mass produce them LOL....and about vtec...we all are shocked i guess after seeing the "table top" torque curve....it took us all by a rather good surprise....
The videos are amazing and are just what everyone has been looking for.
This has been long overdue and kudos again to Rodney for being a leader in the industry and stepping up for the TL community.
Is there any chance we can see some of JPEG's for the above dyno runs.
I think the comparison plots are what everyone is keen to see in more detail.
I want to be able to fully appreciate the beauty of these gains.
LOL....but yeah, in short the car made 226HP 211TQ on stock ECU, Greddy Exhaust, AEM Intake, Stock cats, Aftermarket jpipe (dont know which one), deleted 3rd cat, 4th gear and 93 Octane....and the car made 271HP 242 TQ on 4th gear with MS3 + Precats....so 47HP and 31TQ between the 2 products....I feel that is massive....