FlashPro- J-Series tuning info, advice and discussion thread
05-23-2015, 01:52 AM
#41
[QUOTE=UTAH TSX;15446551]
yes it should!
Factory values set on the flashpro for knock sensitivy is set to low. I have changed the values on mine to match my ears and the flashpro readings.[/QUOTE\
I guess we could make it more sensitive and ignore the low rpm knock count so it will show the higher rpm with boost knocks ?
I guess we could make it more sensitive and ignore the low rpm knock count so it will show the higher rpm with boost knocks ?
yes it should!
05-23-2015, 06:36 AM
#42
I feel like the factory knock sensor is useless, this thing at 9-10 pounds sounds like a pop can full of rocks being shaken and it shows no knocks and the plugs have definate signs of knock, but it counts knocks at 2500 rpm going down hill at 1/4 throttle ?, I only trust my ear and reading the plugs
I know Vit said that we can't zero out our knock sensor table completely because the IAT compensation is run off of it, but Hondata was able to tweak that on the civics. You'd think they could do it for ours as well, I guess it just depends on the amount of demand.
05-23-2015, 01:46 PM
#43
Senior Moderator
Is a better knock sensor available?
05-23-2015, 02:16 PM
#44
Yeah, actually there is. Supposedly the GM non-resonant knock sensors are the best to use as they are most accurate when properly tuned in regards to sensitivity. And because Hondata allows the user to customize the knock sensitivity tables, it makes adapting the factory ecu fairly easy. It's known that most knock sensors are used in accordance to the engines bore as different bores produce different frequencies under knock so I'd still try and locate a GM sensor off of a 3.5" (or close) bore diameter engine.
I personally would rather go with a knock controller such as the Vampire if I were going to go through the trouble of retrofitting a totally different knock sensor due to the fact that the knock controller can quickly/reliably remove timing when detonation is detected. Due to its adaptive design, this of course enables the user to run max amounts of timing to produce the most power without risk of engine damage.
I personally would rather go with a knock controller such as the Vampire if I were going to go through the trouble of retrofitting a totally different knock sensor due to the fact that the knock controller can quickly/reliably remove timing when detonation is detected. Due to its adaptive design, this of course enables the user to run max amounts of timing to produce the most power without risk of engine damage.
05-23-2015, 02:22 PM
#45
My car is bone stock and we experienced the same thing on the dyno. It pulled 6 degrees randomly one time with no audible knock. The next time we were waving at the dyno operator to shut it down as you could hear the knocking over the exhaust but the log showed no knock and no timing being pulled on that run.
I know Vit said that we can't zero out our knock sensor table completely because the IAT compensation is run off of it, but Hondata was able to tweak that on the civics. You'd think they could do it for ours as well, I guess it just depends on the amount of demand.
I know Vit said that we can't zero out our knock sensor table completely because the IAT compensation is run off of it, but Hondata was able to tweak that on the civics. You'd think they could do it for ours as well, I guess it just depends on the amount of demand.
05-23-2015, 08:08 PM
#46
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How about the cylinder angle. 60*, 90* V6. Does that also play a role with the type of frequency?
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
Yeah, actually there is. Supposedly the GM non-resonant knock sensors are the best to use as they are most accurate when properly tuned in regards to sensitivity. And because Hondata allows the user to customize the knock sensitivity tables, it makes adapting the factory ecu fairly easy. It's known that most knock sensors are used in accordance to the engines bore as different bores produce different frequencies under knock so I'd still try and locate a GM sensor off of a 3.5" (or close) bore diameter engine.
I personally would rather go with a knock controller such as the Vampire if I were going to go through the trouble of retrofitting a totally different knock sensor due to the fact that the knock controller can quickly/reliably remove timing when detonation is detected. Due to its adaptive design, this of course enables the user to run max amounts of timing to produce the most power without risk of engine damage.
I personally would rather go with a knock controller such as the Vampire if I were going to go through the trouble of retrofitting a totally different knock sensor due to the fact that the knock controller can quickly/reliably remove timing when detonation is detected. Due to its adaptive design, this of course enables the user to run max amounts of timing to produce the most power without risk of engine damage.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 05-23-2015 at 08:11 PM.
05-24-2015, 11:54 AM
#47
How about the cylinder angle. 60*, 90* V6. Does that also play a role with the type of frequency?
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
I believe Vit said on a previous post here that the IAT compensation table is also tied to the knock control table and won't work if the knock control tables are zeroed out. He said that caused a lot of problems on the Civic tables and they lobbied Hondata to change it and make it separate. It would be nice if ours had that same setup.
05-24-2015, 12:26 PM
#48
How about the cylinder angle. 60*, 90* V6. Does that also play a role with the type of frequency?
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
Do ellaborate more on this vampire system. It sounds very interesting. Is it a knock sensor per cylinder, or a single one for all 6 chambers?
Also to quote the other post by you. Hondata flashpro for the v6 does not have IAT compensation table. I talked about it with Derek at innovative motor works about it while he was tuning my car. It also doesn't have a lot of feature compared to the civic guys. So there might be room to still grow.
The Vampire is a knock controller made by J&S that essentially automatically trims cylinder ignition (by retarding) when knock is detected. And yes, by trim, I do mean on a cylinder per cylinder basis. This allows the user or tuner to run the max allowed timing on each cylinder to make the most power SAFELY though I wouldn't recommend "to the edge" tuning like this...especially on a forced induction motor. It's designed actually to be more of a safe guard on the motor than anything else. I wouldn't want to rely on ANY device to keep my motor safe up until the point of its failure.
Here's a link to the site if you're interested:
J&S Vampire
And for the IAT compensation tables in Hondata, are you saying that the table isn't there or they are unusable if changes to the knock tables are made? Because I see the table there and though I haven't actually done a recent test to ensure its compensating under high IATs, I can confirm it was working correctly before changes were made.
05-26-2015, 06:09 AM
#49
I'm quite certain there would be an infinite amount of other factors that would affect the resonance frequency than just the bores diameter. I also believe its safe to assume that the bores diameter is the single most important factor that should be matched when pairing a specific knock sensor with a block. From what I've seen, there seems to be more of a certain range of frequency that a knock sensor can detect as one part number is generally catalogued under multiple engine displacements such as the 09 TL 3.5 and the 3.7's. After matching the sensor to the engine it will be used with, it's all just a matter of properly tuning the ecu to the sensor.
The Vampire is a knock controller made by J&S that essentially automatically trims cylinder ignition (by retarding) when knock is detected. And yes, by trim, I do mean on a cylinder per cylinder basis. This allows the user or tuner to run the max allowed timing on each cylinder to make the most power SAFELY though I wouldn't recommend "to the edge" tuning like this...especially on a forced induction motor. It's designed actually to be more of a safe guard on the motor than anything else. I wouldn't want to rely on ANY device to keep my motor safe up until the point of its failure.
Here's a link to the site if you're interested:
J&S Vampire
And for the IAT compensation tables in Hondata, are you saying that the table isn't there or they are unusable if changes to the knock tables are made? Because I see the table there and though I haven't actually done a recent test to ensure its compensating under high IATs, I can confirm it was working correctly before changes were made.
The Vampire is a knock controller made by J&S that essentially automatically trims cylinder ignition (by retarding) when knock is detected. And yes, by trim, I do mean on a cylinder per cylinder basis. This allows the user or tuner to run the max allowed timing on each cylinder to make the most power SAFELY though I wouldn't recommend "to the edge" tuning like this...especially on a forced induction motor. It's designed actually to be more of a safe guard on the motor than anything else. I wouldn't want to rely on ANY device to keep my motor safe up until the point of its failure.
Here's a link to the site if you're interested:
J&S Vampire
And for the IAT compensation tables in Hondata, are you saying that the table isn't there or they are unusable if changes to the knock tables are made? Because I see the table there and though I haven't actually done a recent test to ensure its compensating under high IATs, I can confirm it was working correctly before changes were made.
Vit said this in a different thread here:
"No modern Honda ECU has active knock logic. Granted you've got the general idea, but KIL being zero'd out doesn't really solve the problem as the KIL tables are actually dynamic in the ECU, what you see in the tables are only a baseline. I've watched the ECU take and drift KIL and up and down on it's own, which can have drastic repercussions to your timing map (and how your motor runs). The ecu logic will never add more timing than in the main ignition tables, however. Something to keep in mind.
Top that off with the fact the IAT compensations run against KIL and not your primary ignition tables, you can have a failure on an F/I vehicle very quick moving from cold -> hot extremes. It brings up some very interesting things to think about when working on the new generation of Honda/Acura."
I don't know why Hondata would list in their tuning manual to zero the stuff out just as you mentioned if it doesn't work with the IAT compensation, but the manual is generic for all Flashpros, and Vit said they lobbied Hondata to un-tie the IAT from the KIL tables in the Civic Flashpro.
I'm still going to do it that way on my car, as I drive maybe 3000 miles a year so I'm less concerned about hitting a 170 degree IAT, which is about where it starts to reduce timing.
05-26-2015, 10:34 PM
#50
I agree that there are IAT compensation tables in Hondata - in fact, I had the same thought as you regarding knock control - it sucks so bad on the stock ecu, just zero it all out and run a J&S.
Vit said this in a different thread here:
"No modern Honda ECU has active knock logic. Granted you've got the general idea, but KIL being zero'd out doesn't really solve the problem as the KIL tables are actually dynamic in the ECU, what you see in the tables are only a baseline. I've watched the ECU take and drift KIL and up and down on it's own, which can have drastic repercussions to your timing map (and how your motor runs). The ecu logic will never add more timing than in the main ignition tables, however. Something to keep in mind.
Top that off with the fact the IAT compensations run against KIL and not your primary ignition tables, you can have a failure on an F/I vehicle very quick moving from cold -> hot extremes. It brings up some very interesting things to think about when working on the new generation of Honda/Acura."
I don't know why Hondata would list in their tuning manual to zero the stuff out just as you mentioned if it doesn't work with the IAT compensation, but the manual is generic for all Flashpros, and Vit said they lobbied Hondata to un-tie the IAT from the KIL tables in the Civic Flashpro.
I'm still going to do it that way on my car, as I drive maybe 3000 miles a year so I'm less concerned about hitting a 170 degree IAT, which is about where it starts to reduce timing.
Vit said this in a different thread here:
"No modern Honda ECU has active knock logic. Granted you've got the general idea, but KIL being zero'd out doesn't really solve the problem as the KIL tables are actually dynamic in the ECU, what you see in the tables are only a baseline. I've watched the ECU take and drift KIL and up and down on it's own, which can have drastic repercussions to your timing map (and how your motor runs). The ecu logic will never add more timing than in the main ignition tables, however. Something to keep in mind.
Top that off with the fact the IAT compensations run against KIL and not your primary ignition tables, you can have a failure on an F/I vehicle very quick moving from cold -> hot extremes. It brings up some very interesting things to think about when working on the new generation of Honda/Acura."
I don't know why Hondata would list in their tuning manual to zero the stuff out just as you mentioned if it doesn't work with the IAT compensation, but the manual is generic for all Flashpros, and Vit said they lobbied Hondata to un-tie the IAT from the KIL tables in the Civic Flashpro.
I'm still going to do it that way on my car, as I drive maybe 3000 miles a year so I'm less concerned about hitting a 170 degree IAT, which is about where it starts to reduce timing.
As for now, since I'm NA, I'll keep the knock tables zero'd out. Once the boost is thrown back into the mix, I'll change them back to stock values and be more attentive to the issue Vit has explained, I pay extra attention to knock counts while driving so I feel that even if I were doing something wrong it would be apparent in while datalogging. And now that we're moving into the summer, I'm sure the higher temps will reveal any mistakes I've made...if any were made at all.
I would REALLY like to add in a second knock sensor into one of the blank provisions on the top of the block and add a Vampire into the mix. That would give me some great comparison data to the factory knock system as well as piece of mind. Nothing but good....great things said about that setup!
05-27-2015, 08:37 PM
#51
Anyone here do their own street tuning or even a dyno/street combo? If so, I'd like to here your strategies, ideas, and theories on tuning the fuel and (more importantly) ignition tables.
The reason I ask is because most of anyone who's used any tuning software knows how difficult, yet rewarding, street tuning can be in regards to drivability, reliability, and max power. Real world scenarios that cannot be replicated by any dyno can make an absolute world of difference to how well the car drives with all that new found power. Smoothing out tables and ensuring that all areas of the maps are gone through thoroughly is what really matters IMO.
For me and most others, fuel tables are very simple but for those of us who are OCD, can take several sessions to get a solid/stable AFR...no biggie. To me, it's the ignition tables that have proven to be tricky and thought I'd share what I've learned through research and experience. Obviously, making any adjustments to the ignition tables without any ability to monitor knock on a newly created map can be very dangerous which is why I always use my PC during datalog to alert me if knock counts are detected and will do so for maybe 2-3 runs thereafter just to be sure. I typically make very small 1/2 degree advance increments when making changes because its safer to creep up to the knock threshold rather than over it. If the engine begins knocking in a specific area of the table, reduce timing by 1-2 degrees (depending on counts seen and other factors also such as ECT, IAT, MAP, etc) and keep going in other areas until I've went all the way through table. Having a knock controller would greatly speed this process because it would allow you to see much further ahead as to where that knock threshold is and add timing in much greater amounts before knowing exactly where to stop. But for now, the method I gave above works great and I've gained quite a bit of power (especially at WOT) without taking the car to a dyno and paying someone else to do it for me. Hopefully this helps someone or encourages another to get more involved with their car on another level.
Thanks!
The reason I ask is because most of anyone who's used any tuning software knows how difficult, yet rewarding, street tuning can be in regards to drivability, reliability, and max power. Real world scenarios that cannot be replicated by any dyno can make an absolute world of difference to how well the car drives with all that new found power. Smoothing out tables and ensuring that all areas of the maps are gone through thoroughly is what really matters IMO.
For me and most others, fuel tables are very simple but for those of us who are OCD, can take several sessions to get a solid/stable AFR...no biggie. To me, it's the ignition tables that have proven to be tricky and thought I'd share what I've learned through research and experience. Obviously, making any adjustments to the ignition tables without any ability to monitor knock on a newly created map can be very dangerous which is why I always use my PC during datalog to alert me if knock counts are detected and will do so for maybe 2-3 runs thereafter just to be sure. I typically make very small 1/2 degree advance increments when making changes because its safer to creep up to the knock threshold rather than over it. If the engine begins knocking in a specific area of the table, reduce timing by 1-2 degrees (depending on counts seen and other factors also such as ECT, IAT, MAP, etc) and keep going in other areas until I've went all the way through table. Having a knock controller would greatly speed this process because it would allow you to see much further ahead as to where that knock threshold is and add timing in much greater amounts before knowing exactly where to stop. But for now, the method I gave above works great and I've gained quite a bit of power (especially at WOT) without taking the car to a dyno and paying someone else to do it for me. Hopefully this helps someone or encourages another to get more involved with their car on another level.
Thanks!
05-27-2015, 09:04 PM
#52
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Ask DomGSR-T he tuned my car and a few other people car. He also dyno tuned his car and showed HP increase for different parts such as 3.7TB and manifold and MDX spacer.
He got my ignition down to 1-2 degrees of my dyno tune. He still had to work on my AFR, but I couldn't do any street runs so that why i got it dyno tuned. He will be doing some fine tuning to the dyno tuned mapping because his awesome like that.
He got my ignition down to 1-2 degrees of my dyno tune. He still had to work on my AFR, but I couldn't do any street runs so that why i got it dyno tuned. He will be doing some fine tuning to the dyno tuned mapping because his awesome like that.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 05-27-2015 at 09:14 PM.
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hondazex (06-16-2015)
05-27-2015, 09:57 PM
#53
Ask DomGSR-T he tuned my car and a few other people car. He also dyno tuned his car and showed HP increase for different parts such as 3.7TB and manifold and MDX spacer.
He got my ignition down to 1-2 degrees of my dyno tune. He still had to work on my AFR, but I couldn't do any street runs so that why i got it dyno tuned. He will be doing some fine tuning to the dyno tuned mapping because his awesome like that.
He got my ignition down to 1-2 degrees of my dyno tune. He still had to work on my AFR, but I couldn't do any street runs so that why i got it dyno tuned. He will be doing some fine tuning to the dyno tuned mapping because his awesome like that.
Regardless of which one the two, that's damn good work to get timing down that close! Maybe he or someone else with experience in either e-tuning OR street tuning ignition maps can chime in on the discussion.
Anyone with an e-tune have any idea on the tuners strategy on getting as close as possible to MBT? I'd imagine their approach would be much more conservative in regards to this than a person who is dyno or street tuning but I'm curious to hear how they know when/where to making timing advancements.
05-28-2015, 12:40 AM
#54
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This was though e-tunez. Dyno chart below. Most of the power was made by leaning out my car. It currently at 13.3AFR for N/A and is using W/M.
his going to see if changing the vtec engagement will help with that dip. Vtec currently set at 5k since anything below would lose power. You can see my car all of a sudden after 5.1-5.3k loses power then climbs back up.
AFR was suppose to be tuned next with Dom, but I rush things.
his going to see if changing the vtec engagement will help with that dip. Vtec currently set at 5k since anything below would lose power. You can see my car all of a sudden after 5.1-5.3k loses power then climbs back up.
AFR was suppose to be tuned next with Dom, but I rush things.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 05-28-2015 at 12:45 AM.
05-30-2015, 11:12 PM
#55
Here's a nifty little formula I found on another board that will help determine the raw fuel input in a specific cell on a fuel table to achieve a specific AFR. So instead of using Hondata's recommended percentage adjustments, use this formula to make adjustments. I would still caution against making any changes in a cell above 5% increments however like Hondata also warns against. Enjoy:
Use this formula in order to determine what raw fuel number is needed on a fuel table in order to obtain a specific AFR:
CURRENT AFR- 12.0:1
DESIRED AFR- 13.0:1
DIVIDE CURRENT BY DESIRED AFR-
12.0 / 13.0 = .923
THEN MULTIPLY BY THE RAW FUEL NUMBER IN TABLE
210 x .923 = 193.8
THIS MEANS YOU WOULD ENTER IN 193.8 IN THE CELL TO OBTAIN AN AFR OF 13.0:1
Use this formula in order to determine what raw fuel number is needed on a fuel table in order to obtain a specific AFR:
CURRENT AFR- 12.0:1
DESIRED AFR- 13.0:1
DIVIDE CURRENT BY DESIRED AFR-
12.0 / 13.0 = .923
THEN MULTIPLY BY THE RAW FUEL NUMBER IN TABLE
210 x .923 = 193.8
THIS MEANS YOU WOULD ENTER IN 193.8 IN THE CELL TO OBTAIN AN AFR OF 13.0:1
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Grand_hustle17 (06-01-2015)
06-01-2015, 09:04 PM
#56
Cant wait to install my hondata.. May do it tomorrow
06-02-2015, 02:29 PM
#57
Ive got some questions guys... So i have a 04 tl and have hondata. I also have the correct harness for this install. I am attempting to just get my keys reprogrammed right now for the type S ecu but the diagnostic tool isnt reading anything.. Have a friend who works at the dealer and he brought their tool down (yup hes connected like that). However. Its not reading... Anyone feeling generous enough to shoot me a message on what to do?... 3012578288
06-02-2015, 02:47 PM
#58
I believe its the can wiring. Def not comfortable with doing that. Plus now running out of time
06-02-2015, 04:32 PM
#59
06-02-2015, 06:28 PM
#60
It's the CAN system, yes. But it's the termination modules dropping the network before reaching the ecm. I believe (if I remember correctly) it's the cluster and the ABS module termination conflicting with the Type S modules termination. Reach out to me in PM's so we can keep this thread on discussion.
06-02-2015, 06:45 PM
#61
Ive got some questions guys... So i have a 04 tl and have hondata. I also have the correct harness for this install. I am attempting to just get my keys reprogrammed right now for the type S ecu but the diagnostic tool isnt reading anything.. Have a friend who works at the dealer and he brought their tool down (yup hes connected like that). However. Its not reading... Anyone feeling generous enough to shoot me a message on what to do?... 3012578288
There's also been talk on the accord forums that those CAN wires aren't very good at making contact. Mine works every time with my hondata, but my Fly100 (diag tool) could be kinda picky as far as connecting, but it worked
06-06-2015, 12:47 AM
#63
Just wanted to come back on the subject of the IAT ignition retard tables not functioning as they should when the knock tables are zero'd out and say that THIS IS NOT TRUE. I've been monitoring my datalogs closely for the past week on both the IAT and the ECT ignition compensation tables after it being mentioned only to report everything still works as it should.
I have all knock tables (except the sensitivity levels) taken down to zero where the ecu has essentially no response to any detected knock and again, all compensation tables work 100%.
No worries to anyone wanting to pull Honda's knock control out of the tuning equation.
I have all knock tables (except the sensitivity levels) taken down to zero where the ecu has essentially no response to any detected knock and again, all compensation tables work 100%.
No worries to anyone wanting to pull Honda's knock control out of the tuning equation.
06-10-2015, 11:56 AM
#64
Advanced
What's up guys, hopefully I don't get yelled at for posting this, but can we get a comprehensive guide for people looking to tune their TL/TLS for the first time with the hondata in this thread?
I'm want to get a hondata tune, but I know very little about tuning. If we can get some basic/helpful information such as the following, that would be awesome:
1. The different methods of tunes available
2. The different maps available
3. What to expect from a tune
4. General things to look out for and be aware of
Also, I saw that mrkingstonvi posted his dyno grpahs and made pretty good power gains with his mods/tune, but isn't 203 whp very low for a stock 08 5AT TLS, or is the auto that bad at putting the power down? I'd expect stock 5at to be around 220-230? Thanks in advance, hopefully I don't get bitched out, I'm an old user but I haven't been around much lately.
I'm want to get a hondata tune, but I know very little about tuning. If we can get some basic/helpful information such as the following, that would be awesome:
1. The different methods of tunes available
2. The different maps available
3. What to expect from a tune
4. General things to look out for and be aware of
Also, I saw that mrkingstonvi posted his dyno grpahs and made pretty good power gains with his mods/tune, but isn't 203 whp very low for a stock 08 5AT TLS, or is the auto that bad at putting the power down? I'd expect stock 5at to be around 220-230? Thanks in advance, hopefully I don't get bitched out, I'm an old user but I haven't been around much lately.
06-14-2015, 01:30 PM
#65
Also, I saw that mrkingstonvi posted his dyno grpahs and made pretty good power gains with his mods/tune, but isn't 203 whp very low for a stock 08 5AT TLS, or is the auto that bad at putting the power down? I'd expect stock 5at to be around 220-230? Thanks in advance, hopefully I don't get bitched out, I'm an old user but I haven't been around much lately.
06-14-2015, 04:00 PM
#66
Glad to see lots of interest in an area of performance where more of us should be involved! Keep up the excellent posts everyone. Lots of good topics above so far.
Utah, I came back here to respond to your email on the datalogs as I figured this thread would be most appropriate for the discussion on the evidence of detonation you seen to the piston crowns as well as the knock counts.
Firstly, you were right in regards to the data, not much to see but I had a few points of interest I was hoping you could expand on or even just consider in your quest to find the problem. To highlight, the datalog showed two separate areas of boost at WOT and then a total of (I believe) nine knock counts throughout. Interesting point was that the knock never occurred during, or even near, the WOT runs. If analyzed accurately, all counts took place between 1mph and 25mph during PT and this was while the intake maintained a vacuum state. This leads me to believe that the counts were brought about from drivetrain NVH from perhaps taking off (don't recall if you were 5AT or 6MT) but maybe check this area out for any issues....I also think you may have hinted around to this idea?
im 5at. the knock sensors have been dialed into the knock by DOM. and now pick up almost all the knock
Next, the WOT runs showed an odd bit I didn't feel would be defined as being "normal" and that was the boost pressure not remaining consistent throughout the run while never leaving WOT. There seemed to be a fluctuation of around 1-2lbs of boost which was then unsurprisingly followed by a 1+ point of AFR variation (10.14:1-11.3:1 to be exact). Are the wastegate(s) controlled using an EBC or mechanically? Seems like you may have some reason for concern there depending on how they are being controlled...
my internal wastegate works a little too well my boost will spike, then drop a couple pound as the boost continues. i have an apexi avcr that works awesome and i can maintain an almost perfectly steady boost level, but it doesn't like the extra boost right now knocked like crazy last time i turned it on and caused it to put those pits in the piston crown. so it is turned off for now.
In order to give any more information on the engine and/or tune, I would definitely need to compare the datalog with your current calibration so if you don't mind, shoot that to me as well and let's see if anything can't be identified from there. IMO, if you're seeing peppering on the crowns with only 9lbs of boost, something is going on somewhere for sure!
ive been through quite a few maps since then and i have made quite a few changes. one thing worth noting was the timing difference in cylinder 5 and 6,Vit had to trim the timing on those ones a good little bit
Good work everyone. Keep this thread both entertaining and educational!!!
Utah, I came back here to respond to your email on the datalogs as I figured this thread would be most appropriate for the discussion on the evidence of detonation you seen to the piston crowns as well as the knock counts.
Firstly, you were right in regards to the data, not much to see but I had a few points of interest I was hoping you could expand on or even just consider in your quest to find the problem. To highlight, the datalog showed two separate areas of boost at WOT and then a total of (I believe) nine knock counts throughout. Interesting point was that the knock never occurred during, or even near, the WOT runs. If analyzed accurately, all counts took place between 1mph and 25mph during PT and this was while the intake maintained a vacuum state. This leads me to believe that the counts were brought about from drivetrain NVH from perhaps taking off (don't recall if you were 5AT or 6MT) but maybe check this area out for any issues....I also think you may have hinted around to this idea?
im 5at. the knock sensors have been dialed into the knock by DOM. and now pick up almost all the knock
Next, the WOT runs showed an odd bit I didn't feel would be defined as being "normal" and that was the boost pressure not remaining consistent throughout the run while never leaving WOT. There seemed to be a fluctuation of around 1-2lbs of boost which was then unsurprisingly followed by a 1+ point of AFR variation (10.14:1-11.3:1 to be exact). Are the wastegate(s) controlled using an EBC or mechanically? Seems like you may have some reason for concern there depending on how they are being controlled...
my internal wastegate works a little too well my boost will spike, then drop a couple pound as the boost continues. i have an apexi avcr that works awesome and i can maintain an almost perfectly steady boost level, but it doesn't like the extra boost right now knocked like crazy last time i turned it on and caused it to put those pits in the piston crown. so it is turned off for now.
In order to give any more information on the engine and/or tune, I would definitely need to compare the datalog with your current calibration so if you don't mind, shoot that to me as well and let's see if anything can't be identified from there. IMO, if you're seeing peppering on the crowns with only 9lbs of boost, something is going on somewhere for sure!
ive been through quite a few maps since then and i have made quite a few changes. one thing worth noting was the timing difference in cylinder 5 and 6,Vit had to trim the timing on those ones a good little bit
Good work everyone. Keep this thread both entertaining and educational!!!
06-14-2015, 09:44 PM
#68
Btw, the overrun adjustment feature is a pretty sweet ass tool to use for increasing shift times for those running 5AT's and also for getting some flames to pop under shifts for the 6MT crowd. You can retard ignition and richen up the mixture during overrun to get both to occur but I'm experimenting with it ATM to try for some flames and quicker shifts. Because I'm currently running stocks cats, I'm mainly aiming for just an audible exhaust crackle since the fire will be stopped by the catalyst design. The 5AT will see quicker shifts from retarding the ignition because it effectively removes load from the engine which allows quicker gear changes. Pretty interesting stuff but it involves some time to learn how the engine responds under certain changes to try and achieve the result you're looking for.
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heyitsnickk (02-15-2016)
06-14-2015, 10:47 PM
#69
No, just using the new features added for us that the kseries guys have from rev 1.7.0. I have requested them on the hondata forum to have this option on Jan 17th 2014 we finally have it and it's kind of weird at first to drive a rev hang free car but it feels so good!!
we finally have it and it's kind of weird at first to drive a rev hang free car but it feels so good!!
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hondazex (06-16-2015)
06-15-2015, 01:04 AM
#70
No, just using the new features added for us that the kseries guys have from rev 1.7.0. I have requested them on the hondata forum to have this option on Jan 17th 2014 we finally have it and it's kind of weird at first to drive a rev hang free car but it feels so good!!
we finally have it and it's kind of weird at first to drive a rev hang free car but it feels so good!! I read somewhere about them saying that there will never be a way to alleviate the issue because the TL AWD throttle body simply just wasn't compatible with the 3G TLS ecu due to the additional amperage draw from the DBW motor. I knew this was BS because the 3G TLS 5AT ecu could run the TB with zero problems. That's how I myself knew it was on them and their lack of research on the matter.
Nevertheless, glad to hear its finally been dealt with.
06-15-2015, 01:59 AM
#71
Ah, so it's NOT a hardware glitch like Hondata was saying it was, its a fault on their end...like they were saying it wasn't?
I read somewhere about them saying that there will never be a way to alleviate the issue because the TL AWD throttle body simply just wasn't compatible with the 3G TLS ecu due to the additional amperage draw from the DBW motor. I knew this was BS because the 3G TLS 5AT ecu could run the TB with zero problems. That's how I myself knew it was on them and their lack of research on the matter.
Nevertheless, glad to hear its finally been dealt with.
I read somewhere about them saying that there will never be a way to alleviate the issue because the TL AWD throttle body simply just wasn't compatible with the 3G TLS ecu due to the additional amperage draw from the DBW motor. I knew this was BS because the 3G TLS 5AT ecu could run the TB with zero problems. That's how I myself knew it was on them and their lack of research on the matter.
Nevertheless, glad to hear its finally been dealt with.
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thisaznboi88 (06-15-2015)
06-15-2015, 01:45 PM
#72
I have a general question about the ECU needed to run the Flash Pro in my 06 MT. If I use a 07-08 type-s MT ecu, will it run the car normally once I go back to stock? My goal is to eliminate the need to have my old 06 ECU synced back to the car in order to go back to stock leaving the type-s ECU in the car.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
06-15-2015, 01:49 PM
#73
I have a general question about the ECU needed to run the Flash Pro in my 06 MT. If I use a 07-08 type-s MT ecu, will it run the car normally once I go back to stock? My goal is to eliminate the need to have my old 06 ECU synced back to the car in order to go back to stock leaving the type-s ECU in the car.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
You would have to reinstall the 06 and have the immobilizer programmed back to it if you wanted to use it again - that is correct.
As for cruise, I think the manual Type-S ecus are getting difficult and expensive to find, but I've been too lazy to mod my auto ecu for cruise. I miss it tho - I'm a big cruise control user.
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Hi speed (06-15-2015)
06-15-2015, 01:50 PM
#74
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Not sure if you can swap the stock ed
ecu back without reprogramming it to the immobilzer again.
But for sure you won't have to do the ecu mod for the MT ecu. It only applies to the AT.
ecu back without reprogramming it to the immobilzer again.
But for sure you won't have to do the ecu mod for the MT ecu. It only applies to the AT.
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Hi speed (06-15-2015)
06-15-2015, 05:35 PM
#77
I have a general question about the ECU needed to run the Flash Pro in my 06 MT. If I use a 07-08 type-s MT ecu, will it run the car normally once I go back to stock? My goal is to eliminate the need to have my old 06 ECU synced back to the car in order to go back to stock leaving the type-s ECU in the car.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
I have been told that you can only sync one ECU to the immobilizer /car at a time causing the old ecu (06) to no longer work and need to be resynced if I needed to use it.
The other issue is the cruise control mod that needs to be done to the auto ECU's for cruise to work in the MT cars. Would the MT type-s ecu need this same modification to allow for proper cruise control operations? Seems like it would be worth the extra costs for the type-s ecu if it solved those two issues.
06-15-2015, 06:07 PM
#78
If I ever get back to my car, I will be checking that out myself. I'm in a new state and plan to put everything back to stock emissions wise, get it inspected then put the turbo back in. I would like to avoid taking off the intake and leave the larger injectors in but I don't know if that's going to be possible.
You should be to scale those injectors down to make a stock tune and avoid pulling the intake.
Last edited by Hi speed; 06-15-2015 at 06:09 PM.
06-15-2015, 06:59 PM
#79
Sorry, it's for a 6mt.
Yep, like Hi Speed said, you can basically start a new tune using whatever size injectors are installed and FP will scale them automatically. Though it will still require some minor adjustments, its gets pretty damn close to where you will need to be. I'm actually running my ID1000's on the NA setup right now and still able to drive the car just fine using only 30% of their rated flow.
If I ever get back to my car, I will be checking that out myself. I'm in a new state and plan to put everything back to stock emissions wise, get it inspected then put the turbo back in. I would like to avoid taking off the intake and leave the larger injectors in but I don't know if that's going to be possible.
06-15-2015, 07:21 PM
#80
I don't have anywhere in my new town yet so I am possibly going to have to go back to the stock ecu where I don't have any control.