2012 Supercharger + JR ECU Build.
12-12-2011, 06:33 PM
#1
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
2012 Supercharger + JR ECU Build.
So I bought a used supercharger as most of you know from my other thread and I don't want to continue on that thread for the build, Hence this thread.
Buying a used Supercharger. What to look for? https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832710
Now its time to build.
Readings alot from all the older s/c installs, and alot of IHC posts, the main problem with the Comptech Supercharger out the box was the ACM. I've also read from Hi Speed and others, that the blower itself just doesn't deliver enough air hence Pauls M90 s/c...
Now that we have the JR ecu available to us; together with the s/c and meth, should take care of all the tuning problems ran into in the past.
As for more air, I was thinking of working on the tb, manifold, runners, and supercharger itself.
For the supercharger, I was thinking (if possible) boreing the inlet, outlet, elbow, and spacer. (pictured below)
INLET
OUTLET
ELBOW (both sides)
SPACER
Is this possible at all? any suggestions/ideas/problems please speak up.
Can I remove the inlet and outlet off the s/c without any issues?
Other things NEEDED in the build are:
1. RDX 410 injectors
2. New fuel pump (walbro 255)
3. AFR gauge
4. Jr ECU w/ Knock monitor~ 1500
5. Meth kit ~ $500
6. 2 step colder spark plugs
Info acquired in the other thread-
1. Crushing the FPR as per Ct-E is not needed in this application because of new pump and injectors
2. RDX injectors should work great up to 400HP
I just got off the phone with Rodney and it seems they are staying away from the Walbro due to too many knockoffs and some are loud and they are going with the Aeromotive 340LPH pumps.
Also, he's got a special going on for the Ecu's so if anybody is interested- Email him.
Lost train of thought so thats about it for now.
Buying a used Supercharger. What to look for? https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832710
Now its time to build.
Readings alot from all the older s/c installs, and alot of IHC posts, the main problem with the Comptech Supercharger out the box was the ACM. I've also read from Hi Speed and others, that the blower itself just doesn't deliver enough air hence Pauls M90 s/c...
Now that we have the JR ecu available to us; together with the s/c and meth, should take care of all the tuning problems ran into in the past.
As for more air, I was thinking of working on the tb, manifold, runners, and supercharger itself.
For the supercharger, I was thinking (if possible) boreing the inlet, outlet, elbow, and spacer. (pictured below)
INLET
OUTLET
ELBOW (both sides)
SPACER
Is this possible at all? any suggestions/ideas/problems please speak up.
Can I remove the inlet and outlet off the s/c without any issues?
Other things NEEDED in the build are:
1. RDX 410 injectors
2. New fuel pump (walbro 255)
3. AFR gauge
4. Jr ECU w/ Knock monitor~ 1500
5. Meth kit ~ $500
6. 2 step colder spark plugs
Info acquired in the other thread-
1. Crushing the FPR as per Ct-E is not needed in this application because of new pump and injectors
2. RDX injectors should work great up to 400HP
I just got off the phone with Rodney and it seems they are staying away from the Walbro due to too many knockoffs and some are loud and they are going with the Aeromotive 340LPH pumps.
Also, he's got a special going on for the Ecu's so if anybody is interested- Email him.
Lost train of thought so thats about it for now.
12-12-2011, 08:28 PM
#3
12-12-2011, 08:50 PM
#6
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
if i get out of work early enough, ima come check you out while you getting the suspension put in. I was going to post on your thread but what for, i was on the phone with Raul already and he confirmed it lol
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ABP_04TL (12-13-2011)
12-12-2011, 08:52 PM
#7
In a recent discussion on another forum, a lot of information was uncovered, along with a solid contact within the Eaton Corporation itself. This thread will outline the findings and what is recommended by the manufacturer itself.
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. .
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in betterfueleconomy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
When it comes to modification of these superchargers, the common areas of modification are:
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Porting or Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
The two oval slots on the output plate are air leakage ports. Their only purpose is to decrease operational noise from the blower. Arnie, from Eaton Corp., explains their function like this, "When you stomp on the gas, the boost shoots up and the air flow goes supersonic. The air then slams back into the output plate and through the leakage slots, which reduces the hammering of the air into the housing causing less noise. The OEM can not have such loud NVH, that’s why we put them in the housing. The 2 small ports are not there to feed air, only to reduce noise." Basically, for the best flow and most efficiency, these ports can be blocked off, making the outlet port (triangle slot) the only port on the outlet plate of the housing. Closing these ports will not increase IAT's; however, it will make the supercharger much louder when in boost. As an example, aftermarket supercharger companies, such as Harrop, Roush and Magnuson do not use these slots in their blowers. It should be re-stated, that you should consult professionals regarding closing these ports; and do not, for any reason, plug them with JB Weld. Improper closure could eventually lead to pieces coming apart and loose debris destroying the rotors and housing. Opening up these ports will only have a negative effect on efficiency. Do not port them.
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
Heat Reduction, Supporting Modifications:
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety.
filtered it a little bit, but this was my post from a porting the s/c thread. should be great info here.. looking forward to this build...
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. .
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in betterfueleconomy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
When it comes to modification of these superchargers, the common areas of modification are:
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Porting or Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
The two oval slots on the output plate are air leakage ports. Their only purpose is to decrease operational noise from the blower. Arnie, from Eaton Corp., explains their function like this, "When you stomp on the gas, the boost shoots up and the air flow goes supersonic. The air then slams back into the output plate and through the leakage slots, which reduces the hammering of the air into the housing causing less noise. The OEM can not have such loud NVH, that’s why we put them in the housing. The 2 small ports are not there to feed air, only to reduce noise." Basically, for the best flow and most efficiency, these ports can be blocked off, making the outlet port (triangle slot) the only port on the outlet plate of the housing. Closing these ports will not increase IAT's; however, it will make the supercharger much louder when in boost. As an example, aftermarket supercharger companies, such as Harrop, Roush and Magnuson do not use these slots in their blowers. It should be re-stated, that you should consult professionals regarding closing these ports; and do not, for any reason, plug them with JB Weld. Improper closure could eventually lead to pieces coming apart and loose debris destroying the rotors and housing. Opening up these ports will only have a negative effect on efficiency. Do not port them.
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
Heat Reduction, Supporting Modifications:
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety.
filtered it a little bit, but this was my post from a porting the s/c thread. should be great info here.. looking forward to this build...
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12-12-2011, 09:24 PM
#9
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
12-12-2011, 09:47 PM
#10
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Handsom- i think i've read that post in about 5 other forums lol. Farthest back i've found it online is 2007 lol
Im not trying to push it out of its range (16000RPM). Minor porting like stated in the post will increase CFM and help in maintaining lower IATS which is always beneficial. Adding a bored TB and smoother flow from filter all the way to the heads will help not push the supercharger out of its limits. My build is concentrated in having the engine do what its suppose to do efficiently and as safest as possible while having a s/c attached. Not just using the s/c to make all the power and cause any damage to the build.
I emailed stiegemeier.com to see what they say and their prices.
Has anyone heard the difference between superchargers that are stock compared to a plugged up one??
Im not trying to push it out of its range (16000RPM). Minor porting like stated in the post will increase CFM and help in maintaining lower IATS which is always beneficial. Adding a bored TB and smoother flow from filter all the way to the heads will help not push the supercharger out of its limits. My build is concentrated in having the engine do what its suppose to do efficiently and as safest as possible while having a s/c attached. Not just using the s/c to make all the power and cause any damage to the build.
I emailed stiegemeier.com to see what they say and their prices.
Has anyone heard the difference between superchargers that are stock compared to a plugged up one??
12-13-2011, 07:31 PM
#14
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Well i got a reply back from steigemeier.com with a price of 695 but they didnt say for what work... i wrote about the s/c, manifold, and TB but asked what work could be done... I replied asking for a breakdown.
12-20-2011, 09:40 PM
#19
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
So I re-emailed Stiegemeier and got $495 for a stage 6 porting( Looked on the site but dont know what are the different stages).
Today, I was at TTMotorsports www.ttmotorsports.com Picking up a piece I bought from another Member and spoke with Bruce(I believe owner of TTMS). He showed me around and started up a E63 with his custom long tube headers and man.... His work is clean! He appears to be able to do all and more of what I need so I will be talking to him more once the winter really starts and I put the car away.
Today, I was at TTMotorsports www.ttmotorsports.com Picking up a piece I bought from another Member and spoke with Bruce(I believe owner of TTMS). He showed me around and started up a E63 with his custom long tube headers and man.... His work is clean! He appears to be able to do all and more of what I need so I will be talking to him more once the winter really starts and I put the car away.
12-27-2011, 04:52 PM
#20
takin care of Business in
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glad your putting the pieces together....great idea about pnp-ing some components before putting em together....
glad your putting the pieces together....great idea about pnp-ing some components before putting em together....
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InFaMouSLink (12-27-2011)
01-30-2012, 12:07 PM
#23
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Well yesterday i took apart the S/c so i could inspect rotors and remove all parts that will be ported as well. I found the coating on the rotors almost completely gone. So now, should i completely disassemble the blower and get the rotors recoated and while im there, work inside the housing as well or call this good and install?
Here are the pics.
Here are the pics.
01-30-2012, 05:19 PM
#24
Well yesterday i took apart the S/c so i could inspect rotors and remove all parts that will be ported as well. I found the coating on the rotors almost completely gone. So now, should i completely disassemble the blower and get the rotors recoated and while im there, work inside the housing as well or call this good and install?
Here are the pics.
Here are the pics.
02-01-2012, 07:20 AM
#29
This is from the Eaton site if CT doesn't do anything:
Q: My supercharger is broken, how do I repair it?
A: If your vehicle is under factory warranty then the dealership will replace your supercharger. If your vehicle is no longer under warranty please contact one of the Eaton authorized remanufacturers below. If you have an aftermarket supercharger then it is recommended you contact the aftermarket supercharger company that produced it for any repair needs.
www.magnusonproducts.com
1-805-642-8833 (California)
http://www.zzperformance.com/
1-616-532-5152 (Michigan)
http://www.stiegemeier.com/home.html
1-636-949-2275 (Missouri)
Q: My supercharger is broken, how do I repair it?
A: If your vehicle is under factory warranty then the dealership will replace your supercharger. If your vehicle is no longer under warranty please contact one of the Eaton authorized remanufacturers below. If you have an aftermarket supercharger then it is recommended you contact the aftermarket supercharger company that produced it for any repair needs.
www.magnusonproducts.com
1-805-642-8833 (California)
http://www.zzperformance.com/
1-616-532-5152 (Michigan)
http://www.stiegemeier.com/home.html
1-636-949-2275 (Missouri)
02-09-2012, 08:00 AM
#30
Pro
I know on the eatons that are on the cobras and lightnings the coating coming off is normal and happens over time...If its like their blowers then you should be fine...But if its handled under warranty have at it...
02-12-2012, 05:13 PM
#31
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Should i just finish removing the coating so it wont go into my engine then? reading up on the teflon coating, its there to promote a good seal by instead of the rotors expanding and hitting the walls, the Teflon coating will be hitting the wall and is suppose to be worn down but in my situation, shit is just missing and has flaked off... this is normal wear as it does has 15K miles...
02-26-2012, 01:53 AM
#32
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
Spark Plugs - NGK Iridiums BKR8EIX P/N 2668 - 6X - Ordered
Fuel Pressure Gauge - Ordered
Boost Gauge - Ordered
Innovate G3 LC1 Air Fuel Gauge Kit + A pillar pod - Waiting price from JandR.
Also getting the Andriod App -Torque Pro- https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/engine-parameter-monitoring-without-gauges-yay-nay-thread-842352/
JandR is sending the new injectors and fuel assembly next week while we wait for the ECU and knock monitor.
Fuel Pressure Gauge - Ordered
Boost Gauge - Ordered
Innovate G3 LC1 Air Fuel Gauge Kit + A pillar pod - Waiting price from JandR.
Also getting the Andriod App -Torque Pro- https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/engine-parameter-monitoring-without-gauges-yay-nay-thread-842352/
JandR is sending the new injectors and fuel assembly next week while we wait for the ECU and knock monitor.
02-26-2012, 10:52 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
subscribed!! Good luck with your build!
02-26-2012, 11:10 PM
#34
Instructor
Early Eaton M90's had no coating on the rotors at all. The supercharger can definitely run without the coating, but it will be less efficient and build less boost. I would recommend getting in contact with ZZ Performance if Comptech can't/won't do anything for you. I used to have a supercharged w-body and always had great customer service with ZZP.
02-26-2012, 11:55 PM
#35
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
I just emailed ZZP to see what they say... I remember readings that they only work on MP90's now but it wont hurt to ask. The coating is just there to create a better seal while the rotors expand from the heat... If they cant do anything for me, i will remove the rest of the coating. i emailed Stiegmeier a few weeks back and their quick 1 work responses sucked.. Alittle more research online and i saw various post stating the same thing. Steigmeier is just a name and they think they can get away with poor service and i even read a few post about poor quality of work becuz they were once on top.. Magnuson will be last resort.
05-09-2012, 06:56 PM
#39
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
Thread Starter
iTrader: (10)
BUMP!!!!!
Got some parts in... Waiting on others to arrive this SATURDAY!!!
The polishing job came out great... Have to port match everything but thats easy...
Almost there.
Got some parts in... Waiting on others to arrive this SATURDAY!!!
The polishing job came out great... Have to port match everything but thats easy...
Almost there.
The following 2 users liked this post by InFaMouSLink:
justnspace (05-09-2012),
maharajamd (05-09-2012)
