'04 AT TL MPG? Any tips/tricks for improved MPG?
07-09-2012, 10:49 AM
#1
'04 AT TL MPG? Any tips/tricks for improved MPG?
Hey what kind of MPGs are you guys seeing on your TLs? I have an '04 AT and it seems to get crappy MPGs on both city and HW trips..gulps gas... any filter swaps, or gas/engine additives that you guys use that actually help? I know if I slowed down a little that may help, so I already know that. Also, has anybody dared to run lower grade fuel like 87 or 89? I saw some folks talking about it in another forum, but I'm scared to do that.
07-09-2012, 10:51 AM
#2
if you run lower grade gas you'll get lower fuel economy.
the TL weighs about 3500lbs.
it takes a lot for it get going at a stop.
in the city, with lots of stop and go traffic, fuel economy WILL take a hit.
in the MID, average MPH is directly related to MPG.
the TL weighs about 3500lbs.
it takes a lot for it get going at a stop.
in the city, with lots of stop and go traffic, fuel economy WILL take a hit.
in the MID, average MPH is directly related to MPG.
07-09-2012, 11:18 AM
#3
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I get 30-32 MPG combined highway city. There's about a million MPG threads but I'll share some of my more recent MPG discoveries. Stuff like keeping your car maintained and running the right tire pressures are pretty novice so those aren't even worth mentioning:
Tips:
1. Driving style - Most important. ie. Don't speed up the red lights then hit the breaks. Don't jackrabbit after every stop. "Coast" (if safe and not a huge inconvenience to other drivers) up to red lights and stop signs. Time stops if possible so you don't have to hit the breaks as much. Don't idle for long periods of time. Don't be afraid to turn the car off if idling for more than a couple of minutes.
2. TL diet: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/m-010-putting-tl-diet-update-links-post-1-a-610974/ Dropping weight from the car frees up more power and results in less energy required to move the car. Granted, if you drop a lot of weight from the car you might find yourself accelerating much quicker which will negate any MPG benefits. But if you watch yourself, this can have result in a bit of an MPG increase.
3. Use synthetic 5W-20 oil. This is just my theory/preference. I've used 10W-30, 5W-30 and 5W-20 synthetics and have found that 5W-20 is optimal for fuel economy, which comes at no surprise since it's thinner at operating temperature and thus is less work for the engine to move around than thicker oils. There's the arguement that it's also less protective than thicker oil (ie. 10w-30) but I don't completely subscribe to that, especially if using a high end synthetic like Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. And so far I think there's all of zero mentions of people running 5w-20 having a problem with engine wear or burning oil.
4. Get a manual transmission. Naturally this isn't an option unless you started with one. But at least you'll know for next time.
Automatic transmissions may be convenient but they're the model of inefficiency. They consume a significant amout of power to run, around 10-15hp loss at the wheels and 3-5MPG compared to manuals. Manual transmissions are nothing but a box of gears and consume zero power with the exception of the rotational mass of the components whereas auto's have pumps, torque converters, switches, electronics and hydraulics all of which require power to operate.
Just my
edit: don't use lower grade fuel. You can get away with this with some cars but not a high compression engine like the TL has. It will result in lower MPG than premium which will offset the price benefit. Plus, the engine will have to retard timing to avoid detonation which will result in less power and possible engine damage over time.
Tips:
1. Driving style - Most important. ie. Don't speed up the red lights then hit the breaks. Don't jackrabbit after every stop. "Coast" (if safe and not a huge inconvenience to other drivers) up to red lights and stop signs. Time stops if possible so you don't have to hit the breaks as much. Don't idle for long periods of time. Don't be afraid to turn the car off if idling for more than a couple of minutes.
2. TL diet: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/m-010-putting-tl-diet-update-links-post-1-a-610974/ Dropping weight from the car frees up more power and results in less energy required to move the car. Granted, if you drop a lot of weight from the car you might find yourself accelerating much quicker which will negate any MPG benefits. But if you watch yourself, this can have result in a bit of an MPG increase.
3. Use synthetic 5W-20 oil. This is just my theory/preference. I've used 10W-30, 5W-30 and 5W-20 synthetics and have found that 5W-20 is optimal for fuel economy, which comes at no surprise since it's thinner at operating temperature and thus is less work for the engine to move around than thicker oils. There's the arguement that it's also less protective than thicker oil (ie. 10w-30) but I don't completely subscribe to that, especially if using a high end synthetic like Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. And so far I think there's all of zero mentions of people running 5w-20 having a problem with engine wear or burning oil.
4. Get a manual transmission. Naturally this isn't an option unless you started with one. But at least you'll know for next time.
Automatic transmissions may be convenient but they're the model of inefficiency. They consume a significant amout of power to run, around 10-15hp loss at the wheels and 3-5MPG compared to manuals. Manual transmissions are nothing but a box of gears and consume zero power with the exception of the rotational mass of the components whereas auto's have pumps, torque converters, switches, electronics and hydraulics all of which require power to operate. Just my
edit: don't use lower grade fuel. You can get away with this with some cars but not a high compression engine like the TL has. It will result in lower MPG than premium which will offset the price benefit. Plus, the engine will have to retard timing to avoid detonation which will result in less power and possible engine damage over time.
Last edited by losiglow; 07-09-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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07-09-2012, 12:52 PM
#4
Suzuka Master
Average mph = 29. Average mpg = 22.5
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kdybread (07-10-2012)
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07-10-2012, 10:58 AM
#8
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07-10-2012, 11:37 AM
#9
Check and make sure your air filter isn't really dirty, make sure your tires are at least 32psi cold, accelerate easy and use SportShift to shift a little early from 2->3. Don't accelerate too slow because your mileage can take a hit if you take too long to reach the higher gears. Let go off the accelerator early and cost to a stop. Also DO NOT use Neutral to coast (and it can be dangerous in case you need to suddenly accelerate), the fuel injectors will shut off when you let off the accelerator. Try to use the AC at highway speeds and windows in the city. Run top tier gas, the highest octane (93): http://www.toptiergas.com/
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kdybread (07-10-2012)
07-10-2012, 12:50 PM
#11
When I use sportshift it seems to accelerate gas consumption substantially... are you only talking of using it for that 2nd to 3rd shift and then popping it back? Seems weird...
Check and make sure your air filter isn't really dirty, make sure your tires are at least 32psi cold, accelerate easy and use SportShift to shift a little early from 2->3. Don't accelerate too slow because your mileage can take a hit if you take too long to reach the higher gears. Let go off the accelerator early and cost to a stop. Also DO NOT use Neutral to coast (and it can be dangerous in case you need to suddenly accelerate), the fuel injectors will shut off when you let off the accelerator. Try to use the AC at highway speeds and windows in the city. Run top tier gas, the highest octane (93): http://www.toptiergas.com/
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
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justnspace (07-10-2012)
07-10-2012, 07:13 PM
#15
I get 30-32 MPG combined highway city. There's about a million MPG threads but I'll share some of my more recent MPG discoveries. Stuff like keeping your car maintained and running the right tire pressures are pretty novice so those aren't even worth mentioning:
Tips:
1. Driving style - Most important. ie. Don't speed up the red lights then hit the breaks. Don't jackrabbit after every stop. "Coast" (if safe and not a huge inconvenience to other drivers) up to red lights and stop signs. Time stops if possible so you don't have to hit the breaks as much. Don't idle for long periods of time. Don't be afraid to turn the car off if idling for more than a couple of minutes.
2. TL diet: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610974 Dropping weight from the car frees up more power and results in less energy required to move the car. Granted, if you drop a lot of weight from the car you might find yourself accelerating much quicker which will negate any MPG benefits. But if you watch yourself, this can have result in a bit of an MPG increase.
3. Use synthetic 5W-20 oil. This is just my theory/preference. I've used 10W-30, 5W-30 and 5W-20 synthetics and have found that 5W-20 is optimal for fuel economy, which comes at no surprise since it's thinner at operating temperature and thus is less work for the engine to move around than thicker oils. There's the arguement that it's also less protective than thicker oil (ie. 10w-30) but I don't completely subscribe to that, especially if using a high end synthetic like Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. And so far I think there's all of zero mentions of people running 5w-20 having a problem with engine wear or burning oil.
4. Get a manual transmission. Naturally this isn't an option unless you started with one. But at least you'll know for next time. Automatic transmissions may be convenient but they're the model of inefficiency. They consume a significant amout of power to run, around 10-15hp loss at the wheels and 3-5MPG compared to manuals. Manual transmissions are nothing but a box of gears and consume zero power with the exception of the rotational mass of the components whereas auto's have pumps, torque converters, switches, electronics and hydraulics all of which require power to operate.
Tips:
1. Driving style - Most important. ie. Don't speed up the red lights then hit the breaks. Don't jackrabbit after every stop. "Coast" (if safe and not a huge inconvenience to other drivers) up to red lights and stop signs. Time stops if possible so you don't have to hit the breaks as much. Don't idle for long periods of time. Don't be afraid to turn the car off if idling for more than a couple of minutes.
2. TL diet: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610974 Dropping weight from the car frees up more power and results in less energy required to move the car. Granted, if you drop a lot of weight from the car you might find yourself accelerating much quicker which will negate any MPG benefits. But if you watch yourself, this can have result in a bit of an MPG increase.
3. Use synthetic 5W-20 oil. This is just my theory/preference. I've used 10W-30, 5W-30 and 5W-20 synthetics and have found that 5W-20 is optimal for fuel economy, which comes at no surprise since it's thinner at operating temperature and thus is less work for the engine to move around than thicker oils. There's the arguement that it's also less protective than thicker oil (ie. 10w-30) but I don't completely subscribe to that, especially if using a high end synthetic like Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. And so far I think there's all of zero mentions of people running 5w-20 having a problem with engine wear or burning oil.
4. Get a manual transmission. Naturally this isn't an option unless you started with one. But at least you'll know for next time.
Automatic transmissions may be convenient but they're the model of inefficiency. They consume a significant amout of power to run, around 10-15hp loss at the wheels and 3-5MPG compared to manuals. Manual transmissions are nothing but a box of gears and consume zero power with the exception of the rotational mass of the components whereas auto's have pumps, torque converters, switches, electronics and hydraulics all of which require power to operate. Check and make sure your air filter isn't really dirty, make sure your tires are at least 32psi cold, accelerate easy and use SportShift to shift a little early from 2->3. Don't accelerate too slow because your mileage can take a hit if you take too long to reach the higher gears. Let go off the accelerator early and cost to a stop. Also DO NOT use Neutral to coast (and it can be dangerous in case you need to suddenly accelerate), the fuel injectors will shut off when you let off the accelerator. Try to use the AC at highway speeds and windows in the city. Run top tier gas, the highest octane (93): http://www.toptiergas.com/
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
07-10-2012, 09:48 PM
#16
Drifting
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You will see like a .001% in gas mileage using the lighter weight. I wouldn't recommend that because a 30wt is so much better in protecting our engine especially when our TLs love to get a lot of heat soak (especially in TX) during the summer. 30wt for the peace of mind...
Ultimately I think running Xw-20 vs Xw-30 is probably insignificant either way. Fuel economy, wear, performance, heat, etc., etc., etc. are probably all affected slightly. But probably so marginally that it's unnoticeable.
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
07-10-2012, 10:32 PM
#18
I think that's a good theory and I used to fully believe it. But I really don't think I'm convinced at this point. I think a good synthetic oil will protect equally or nearly equally at 20 or 30 weight. And I also think that the increased viscosity of a 30 oil may actually increase engine drag, heat and possibly even wear (at least as far as the oil pump is concerned).
Ultimately I think running Xw-20 vs Xw-30 is probably insignificant either way. Fuel economy, wear, performance, heat, etc., etc., etc. are probably all affected slightly. But probably so marginally that it's unnoticeable.
Ultimately I think running Xw-20 vs Xw-30 is probably insignificant either way. Fuel economy, wear, performance, heat, etc., etc., etc. are probably all affected slightly. But probably so marginally that it's unnoticeable.
07-11-2012, 12:22 AM
#19
KingKong_Dav
07-11-2012, 08:52 AM
#21
Drifting
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You know, the more I read up on it, the more I lean one way or the other. I just read this article which is now making me lead back toward 5w-30:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils
It seems rather unbiased. Ack, the dilemma. First world problems yo.
You're right. But you'll probably end up damaging your tires in the process. I inflated my Conti DWS's to 37 psi last summer for this exact reason. I was attending the U of U which is 60 miles from my place plus work. I was putting about 600 miles a week on the car. 6000 miles later when I went into discount for my rotation, all four tires were wearing unevenly in the middle. Discount explained that the increased pressure causes the center of the tire to bulge slightly which causes this type of wear. I lowered them back down to Acura's recommended pressures (35 in front, 32 in back iirc) and they've started to slowly wear back evenly. Regardless, I'll probably now have to replace them at around 25K miles or so instead of the 50K they were rated for. Luckily Discount will warranty them even though I made a bonehead mistake for an extra 1mpg.
Cliff notes: Don't do this. Learn from my experience. New tires aren't worth a 1mpg gain (if that).
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils
It seems rather unbiased. Ack, the dilemma. First world problems yo.
You're right. But you'll probably end up damaging your tires in the process. I inflated my Conti DWS's to 37 psi last summer for this exact reason. I was attending the U of U which is 60 miles from my place plus work. I was putting about 600 miles a week on the car. 6000 miles later when I went into discount for my rotation, all four tires were wearing unevenly in the middle. Discount explained that the increased pressure causes the center of the tire to bulge slightly which causes this type of wear. I lowered them back down to Acura's recommended pressures (35 in front, 32 in back iirc) and they've started to slowly wear back evenly. Regardless, I'll probably now have to replace them at around 25K miles or so instead of the 50K they were rated for. Luckily Discount will warranty them even though I made a bonehead mistake for an extra 1mpg.
Cliff notes: Don't do this
. Learn from my experience. New tires aren't worth a 1mpg gain (if that).
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
07-11-2012, 10:16 AM
#23
You will see like a .001% in gas mileage using the lighter weight. I wouldn't recommend that because a 30wt is so much better in protecting our engine especially when our TLs love to get a lot of heat soak (especially in TX) during the summer. 30wt for the peace of mind...
No it wont. Doesn't matter how dirty it is, it only effects performance in modern day cars.
No it wont. Doesn't matter how dirty it is, it only effects performance in modern day cars.
You need a certain amount of air entering an engine for a given output. A clogged air filter reduces that air. Thus you have to increase the throttle opening to try and get more air. Increasing the throttle opening burns more fuel to maintain the same output. And that applies throughout the engine range, from idle through acceleration and cruising to high-speed driving.
Note that this isn't a huge change, nothing perceptible to the human "foot" pressing harder on the gas pedal.
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CLtotheTL32 (07-12-2012)
07-11-2012, 02:03 PM
#25
Why wouldn't a dirty air filter contribute to low MPG's? Wouldn't it throw the A/F ratio off? Also using cruise would help the MPG's since the less you go on and off on the throttle, the better MPG you will get.
07-11-2012, 02:32 PM
#27
You need a certain amount of air entering an engine for a given output. A clogged air filter reduces that air. Thus you have to increase the throttle opening to try and get more air. Increasing the throttle opening burns more fuel to maintain the same output. And that applies throughout the engine range, from idle through acceleration and cruising to high-speed driving.
Note that this isn't a huge change, nothing perceptible to the human "foot" pressing harder on the gas pedal.
Note that this isn't a huge change, nothing perceptible to the human "foot" pressing harder on the gas pedal.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf
Originally Posted by i hate cars
Nah. You have less available air so you will never get back to the original power level (WOT). AF stays the same no matter what (the beauty of FI) so you lose power but not mileage.
Even if you increase throttle a lot more to get some of the original (part throttle) power back, you're still only flowing enough air for the original part throttle power so you're using the same amount of fuel.
With the plugged air filter, airflow is reduced so fuel is also reduced by a proportionate amount. The net result is a loss of power but not mileage.
I see what you're saying about WOT but it doesn't just dump all the available fuel. Most older FI cars base WOT fueling on the long term fuel trims. So if the filter has been plugged for a while, even WOT fueling will be proportionate. Newer cars like the TL stay in closed loop at WOT.
On top of that, there will be more manifold vacuum at WOT with a plugged filter so the computer sees this as a decrease in airflow and adjusts accordingly.
__________________
Speed density is primarily based on RPM and MAP. A restricted filter will show a drop in MAP vacuum, the same as a partially closed throttlebody resulting in no change to mpg.
Mileage is not related to how far you push the pedal. It's related to how much airflow is actually going into the engine. You push the pedal more with a dirty filter to allow the SAME amount of air as a clean filter. If more air is not available it does not matter how far you push the pedal you can't get worse mileage.
e air fuel ratio is always the same. Pushing on the gas opens the throttlebody to let more air in. The computer responds to more airflow with more fuel. If it does not see more airflow, it will not add more fuel. Or in other words, less air= less fuel regardless of where the pedal is. The goal is to always keep the AF constant. If for some reason the computer's AF calculation is thrown off, you still have the 02 sensors to keep it in check.
Even if you increase throttle a lot more to get some of the original (part throttle) power back, you're still only flowing enough air for the original part throttle power so you're using the same amount of fuel.
With the plugged air filter, airflow is reduced so fuel is also reduced by a proportionate amount. The net result is a loss of power but not mileage.
I see what you're saying about WOT but it doesn't just dump all the available fuel. Most older FI cars base WOT fueling on the long term fuel trims. So if the filter has been plugged for a while, even WOT fueling will be proportionate. Newer cars like the TL stay in closed loop at WOT.
On top of that, there will be more manifold vacuum at WOT with a plugged filter so the computer sees this as a decrease in airflow and adjusts accordingly.
__________________
Speed density is primarily based on RPM and MAP. A restricted filter will show a drop in MAP vacuum, the same as a partially closed throttlebody resulting in no change to mpg.
Mileage is not related to how far you push the pedal. It's related to how much airflow is actually going into the engine. You push the pedal more with a dirty filter to allow the SAME amount of air as a clean filter. If more air is not available it does not matter how far you push the pedal you can't get worse mileage.
e air fuel ratio is always the same. Pushing on the gas opens the throttlebody to let more air in. The computer responds to more airflow with more fuel. If it does not see more airflow, it will not add more fuel. Or in other words, less air= less fuel regardless of where the pedal is. The goal is to always keep the AF constant. If for some reason the computer's AF calculation is thrown off, you still have the 02 sensors to keep it in check.
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kdybread (07-12-2012)
07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
#29
KingKong_Dav
this guy is a troll. any auto professional will tell you that a dirty air filter will lower fuel milege. this guy is weird.
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CLtotheTL32 (07-12-2012)
.
07-12-2012, 06:54 AM
#35
Over i flated tires will give you more mpg because less friction but wear out the tire right in the middle. U der inflated tire will give you less mpgs because more friction and qear out the tire on the outsid of both sides. 34-35psi is my sweet spot i like to keep mine. also i do highway/city driving pretty much 50/50. I get 26-28 mpgs average. if i cruise all highway its 35-36mpgs. But than again i got a 6 sleed
07-12-2012, 08:48 AM
#37
Thanks for the feedback folks, I guess it's all the conventional options, no real secrets revealed, but that A/F ratio debate was informative and entertaining especially with the troll vs troll stand-off lol.. thanks folks...
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justnspace (07-12-2012)