When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Remember 2013 Silverstone when there were 6 failures?? Pirelli beefed up the tire and things have been fine since. When the tire manufacturer recommends not doing a 1 stop race at Spa, you listen. Even if there was no telemetry indicative of an impending failure, that doesn't mean Ferrari were right in their assumption a 1 stopper should've been okay. Vettel needs to remember something else: he's won all his titles on Pirelli rubber, so
STFU Seb.
I agree, but...the combination of Vettel's tire failure with Rosberg's certainly makes things a bit more suspect (although Pirelli swears the two failures were nothing alike).
my casual observation: Rosberg's tire looked like it was coming apart on the inside shoulder of the right rear tire (thread?) before it let go. It reminded me of when RBR was using ridiculous toe angles on their set ups (again at Spa) after being warned by Pirelli not to. I don't recall their tires blowing up though . . . Vettel's looked like a catastrophic, all at once failure, a la Ralf Schumacher's at Indy (except that was a Michelin tire). Still, it came with no warning.
my casual observation: Rosberg's tire looked like it was coming apart on the inside shoulder of the right rear tire (thread?) before it let go. It reminded me of when RBR was using ridiculous toe angles on their set ups (again at Spa) after being warned by Pirelli not to. I don't recall their tires blowing up though . . . Vettel's looked like a catastrophic, all at once failure, a la Ralf Schumacher's at Indy (except that was a Michelin tire). Still, it came with no warning.
I was watching the video of Rosberg's blowout and, you're right, you can certainly see something happening on that inside shoulder. Seems strange that it was the same tire on two different cars on two different teams, though.
I was at 3/10 of those fails: Mansell, Canadian GP, Empty Grid, USA GP, and Monaco with Lew/Nico botched pit call. Forgot about Hulk's crash into the medical car and Taki Inoue's smack BY the medical car.
McLaren racing director Eric Boullier says a second Honda-powered 'B team' would only be viable if it was not a "distraction" to the partnership's main Formula 1 squad.
An affiliated customer Honda team has been mooted as an option for both speeding up the Japanese firm's engine development by doubling its presence on track, and to create race seats for McLaren proteges Kevin Magnussen and Stoffel Vandoorne while world champions Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button occupy the primary drives.
Although F1's rules allowing increasing possibilities for partnerships between teams - such as 2016 newcomer Haas's alliance with Ferrari - Boullier was cool about the prospect of McLaren or Honda striking such a deal.
"I'm not sure we would like to pay the price of having a distraction within Honda or giving some focus to this," he told AUTOSPORT.
"We have to balance things. We'll see in time.
"We are thinking and we are talking and we are brainstorming."
He underlined McLaren would do its best to help Magnussen - who raced for the team in F1 last season - and runaway GP2 leader Vandoorne.
"It's a nice problem to have - but a tricky one," Boullier said of McLaren's driver surplus.
"We will do our best for them."
EXPERIENCED DRIVERS BEST FOR NOW
Boullier is certain McLaren's current line-up of very experienced drivers - with Button and Alonso having been in F1 since 2000 and '01 respectively - is its best option during Honda's development period.
Button, Alonso, McLaren
"Both have the credibility, and that is very important," he said.
"When each of them says something, everybody is listening and everybody is trusting them to the point where they will try to fix it. That's a big change.
"If you have two junior drivers, you will be tempted to teach them what to do rather than listening to what they want.
"When you are in the situation where we are now, it's good that Honda and McLaren listen to drivers.
"They give the guidance from the past on where we need to go."
But he stopped short of confirming an unchanged line-up for 2016. Alonso has an ongoing deal while there is an option to retain Button too.
"We are happy today with both drivers," said Boullier.
"I can't comment more than this and I don't want to create a wrong or bad or untrue expectation.
Pirelli reveals F1 tyre investigation findings from Belgian GP
By Ian Parkes Thursday, September 3rd 2015, 12:58 GMT
Sebastian Vettel, Belgian Grand Prix 2015
Pirelli has revealed "an exceptional number of cuts" were discovered in its tyres over the course of the controversial Belgian Grand Prix weekend that included two spectacular blowouts.
The Italian manufacturer has conducted a thorough investigation following the incidents involving Mercedes' Nico Rosberg in second practice, and Sebastian Vettel's Ferrari on the penultimate lap of the race.
Pirelli has since presented the FIA with a detailed list of conclusions, with motorsport's world governing body declaring itself "satisfied" with what has been discovered.
As a consequence, and in a bid to avoid further failures with its rubber, Pirelli has raised tyre pressure and camber limits ahead of this weekend's Italian Grand Prix at Monza.
In a statement issued by Pirelli, the organisation has confirmed "the absence of any structural problems".
It added: "Since the start of 2015, 13,748 slick tyres have been used, including on especially severe tracks like Sepang, Barcelona and Silverstone.
"No problems have ever been discovered, underlining the fundamental solidity of the product."
Of particular significance is that Pirelli found "63 cuts...in the tread of the Formula 1 tyres used over the course of the Spa weekend following numerous incidents that took place during the support races before the grand prix.
"In the previous 15 events (10 races and five test sessions) an average of only 1.2 cuts per event were noted.
"All this indicates an anomalous amount of detritus on the track in Spa, with a consequent increased risk of encountering a foreign object.
"If even a small piece of debris - made of carbon or any other particularly sharp material - penetrates and cuts the various structural parts of a tyre (which is obviously subject to high-speed use, and more susceptible if used for a prolonged period) without penetrating the actual structure, this can cause a failure that is different to that found in the event of a normal puncture, which is characterised by a loss of tyre pressure.
"The former was the type of event seen on Sebastian Vettel's tyre at Spa."
Pirelli added that following qualifying at Spa, noting "the exceptional number of cuts to the tyres", it asked the FIA for the circuit to be cleaned.
It is now proposing, in conjunction with the FIA, "a study to evaluate the way in which circuits can be cleaned most effectively".
FIA OPEN TO RECOMMENDATIONS
As for the FIA, it noted: "A highly unusual number of cuts were reported by Pirelli engineers during the Spa weekend, one of which reached the belt and caused tyre failure on Nico Rosberg's car.
"Microscopic examination was conducted on sections taken through some of the cuts found in tyres used by different teams in the race, the results showed one case where the cut had reached the belt but without causing failure.
"The remaining tread thickness on Sebastian Vettel's rear tyres was approximately 30 per cent at the time of the failure, making the tyre more susceptible to damage from small pieces of debris."
In conclusion, the FIA said it "is satisfied with the thoroughness of the investigation and Pirelli's conclusions as to the reasons for the tyre failures in Belgium.
"Based on this, the FIA is willing to consider any safety recommendations made by the tyre supplier for the Italian GP and for the remainder of the season."
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Lewis Hamilton Britain Mercedes GP 1:24.670
2. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:25.133
3. Sebastian Vettel Germany Ferrari 1:26.258
4. Nico Hulkenberg Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:26.612
5. Sergio Perez Mexico Force India-Mercedes 1:26.730
6. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:26.783
7. Daniel Ricciardo Autralian Red Bull-Renault 1:26.922
8. Felipe Massa Brazil Williams-Mercedes 1:26.936
9. Valtteri Bottas Finland Williams-Mercedes 1:27.075
10. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Lotus-Mercedes 1:27.118
11. Felipe Nasr Brazil Sauber-Ferrari 1:27.232
12. Daniil Kvyat Russia Red Bull-Renault 1:27.275
13. Marcus Ericsson Sweden Sauber-Ferrari 1:27.454
14. Max Verstappen Netherlands Toro Rosso-Renault 1:27.591
15. Jolyon Palmer Britain Lotus-Mercedes 1:27.669
16. Carlos Sainz Spain Toro Rosso-Renault 1:27.907
17. Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Honda 1:28.023
18. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Honda 1:28.423
19. Will Stevens Britain Marussia-Ferrari 1:29.853
20. Roberto Merhi Spain Marussia-Ferrari 1:29.911
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Lewis Hamilton Britain Mercedes GP 1:24.279
2. Nico Rosberg Germany Mercedes GP 1:24.300
3. Sebastian Vettel Germany Ferrari 1:25.038
4. Sergio Perez Mexico Force India-Mercedes 1:25.278
5. Nico Hulkenberg Germany Force India-Mercedes 1:25.325
6. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:25.380
7. Romain Grosjean France Lotus-Mercedes 1:25.497
8. Pastor Maldonado Venezuela Lotus-Mercedes 1:25.513
9. Valtteri Bottas Finland Williams-Mercedes 1:25.647
10. Felipe Massa Brazil Williams-Mercedes 1:25.891
11. Felipe Nasr Brazil Sauber-Ferrari 1:26.114
12. Marcus Ericsson Sweden Sauber-Ferrari 1:26.133
13. Daniel Ricciardo Autralian Red Bull-Renault 1:26.222
14. Max Verstappen Netherlands Toro Rosso-Renault 1:26.454
15. Carlos Sainz Spain Toro Rosso-Renault 1:26.641
16. Fernando Alonso Spain McLaren-Honda 1:26.966
17. Will Stevens Britain Marussia-Ferrari 1:28.201
18. Roberto Merhi Spain Marussia-Ferrari 1:28.439
19. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Honda 1:28.471
20. Daniil Kvyat Russia Red Bull-Renault 1:28.723
Lot of mind games coming from McHonda with Arai saying the Honda power unit is 25 hp up on the Renault and Alonso saying they have the best chassis "behind Red Bull."
Last edited by Chief F1 Fan; 09-05-2015 at 06:17 AM.
From BBC F1, if you want to see why McHonda sucks so bad at high speed tracks, read this estimation of its bhp levels:
It confirms information from insiders that the car is pretty competitive - among the four fastest chassis along with Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari - but that the engine is a long way down on power.
Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights.
That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.
Honda returned to F1 this season for the first time since pulling their factory team out at the end of 2008.
The company have struggled to come to terms with the complex hybrid engines introducing in to the sport in 2014.
In its defence, it has been pointed out by McLaren that while Mercedes started developing its engine as long ago as 2010 for introduction in 2014, Honda did not start work on its unit until the early part of 2013.
Alonso, who joined McLaren this year on a three-year deal worth $40m (£26m) a year, insists that he remains confident Honda will become competitive in the end.
"Every day we do so many interviews and so many of them are so negative because we are out of Q1 and we are so slow," he said.
"This is a work in progress. We don't take every weekend as an opportunity or a look in the times and the position. We know we are last. It is frustrating for everyone in the team but it is a period we have to go through together.
"We are moving in the right direction. We'll see how long we need to be competitive and how long I will stay in F1."
Alonso's former team Ferrari, who he left at the end of 2014 two years before the end of his contract after negotiating an early release, qualified second and third at Monza.
But when it was suggested to him he might feel embarrassed at his decision because Ferrari were doing so well, Alonso told BBC Sport: "Well, doing well is relative - compared to who?
"Compared to us they are doing really well, but compared to what we did in the five years we were together they are not doing anything better.
"We were leading the championship a couple of years here in Monza. Now they are third, 100 points behind the Mercedes. Congratulations to them but they should not be happy being 100 points behind Mercedes.
Honda F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai admitted that the deployment of the hybrid system was the biggest problem.
"We have already found what is the weak point of the power-unit and we have already started work on it," he said.
He said the biggest part of that work would happen for 2016 but that Honda hoped to add small improvements to the hybrid system during the remaining seven races of this season.
From BBC F1, if you want to see why McHonda sucks so bad at high speed tracks, read this estimation of its bhp levels:
It confirms information from insiders that the car is pretty competitive - among the four fastest chassis along with Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari - but that the engine is a long way down on power.
Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights.
That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.
Honda returned to F1 this season for the first time since pulling their factory team out at the end of 2008.
The company have struggled to come to terms with the complex hybrid engines introducing in to the sport in 2014.
In its defence, it has been pointed out by McLaren that while Mercedes started developing its engine as long ago as 2010 for introduction in 2014, Honda did not start work on its unit until the early part of 2013.
Alonso, who joined McLaren this year on a three-year deal worth $40m (£26m) a year, insists that he remains confident Honda will become competitive in the end.
"Every day we do so many interviews and so many of them are so negative because we are out of Q1 and we are so slow," he said.
"This is a work in progress. We don't take every weekend as an opportunity or a look in the times and the position. We know we are last. It is frustrating for everyone in the team but it is a period we have to go through together.
"We are moving in the right direction. We'll see how long we need to be competitive and how long I will stay in F1."
Alonso's former team Ferrari, who he left at the end of 2014 two years before the end of his contract after negotiating an early release, qualified second and third at Monza.
But when it was suggested to him he might feel embarrassed at his decision because Ferrari were doing so well, Alonso told BBC Sport: "Well, doing well is relative - compared to who?
"Compared to us they are doing really well, but compared to what we did in the five years we were together they are not doing anything better.
"We were leading the championship a couple of years here in Monza. Now they are third, 100 points behind the Mercedes. Congratulations to them but they should not be happy being 100 points behind Mercedes.
Honda F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai admitted that the deployment of the hybrid system was the biggest problem.
"We have already found what is the weak point of the power-unit and we have already started work on it," he said.
He said the biggest part of that work would happen for 2016 but that Honda hoped to add small improvements to the hybrid system during the remaining seven races of this season.
I was wrong about Ferrari keeping Kimi, perhaps I'll be wrong again and McLaren will resign Button for 2016. Hopefully the motor is more powerful/reliable by then
The McHondas are like moving obstacles on races which require HP. The Renault engine performance is pretty rough, too. Should be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming races where the focal point isn't horsepower.
Results:
It's worth noting that Hamilton was found to have one tire below regulation pressure.
at the slight nod from Frank Williams at the end of the video.
I hope Montoya returns to F1 some day. I'd say the same for Mark Weber, but in his latest book he pretty much burned all bridges. If you get the chance to read Aussie Grit, his autobiography, you'll see why.
The McHondas were ~10km/h slower at Monza, compare to the leaders. VTaaak didn't kick in? LOL.
Lew's life: how could that be a spoiler?? Regardless, if anyone was outted spectacularly, it was "Mad Max" Mosley. Bernie? He's just a rich old weird fuck.
^^ The F1 pundits creating havoc where none really is methinks.
I tend to agree,...trying to create more drama than really exists. It gets pretty tedious listening to the media go on endlessly about it week after week too. YES, we know,...find something else to talk endlessly about.
I am quite curious to see how the end of the season plays out. Will Red Bull really drop Renault? One thing that's interesting is the fact that Renault haven't used like any tokens to make changes this year.
I tend to agree,...trying to create more drama than really exists. It gets pretty tedious listening to the media go on endlessly about it week after week too. YES, we know,...find something else to talk endlessly about.
I am quite curious to see how the end of the season plays out. Will Red Bull really drop Renault? One thing that's interesting is the fact that Renault haven't used like any tokens to make changes this year.
Gotta love the F1 circus.
The media has to churn the non-events to keep us panting for more and it does and has for years. RBR has already formally asked Renault to not honor their 2016 commitment and supposedly, the Regie has agreed leaving RBR looking at either MBZ or Ferrari for power next year.
Originally Posted by kurtatx
I get the feeling Honda might make some internal personnel changes before anything happens with McLaren.
Where is McLaren going to go?
McLaren is small potatoes, though. The real question is where will Red Bull get their power.
McLaren is small potatoes????? Since when is the second-winningest team in F1 history "small potatoes?" McLaren isn't ditching Honda, Honda will get it right undoubtedly. Mr. Arai's head might be on the chopping block after his asinine comments this past weekend regarding his lack of apologies to Mssrs. Button and Alonso (not that those actions alone would garner his firing).
^Asinine is right. Add them to his earlier comments about how the Honda PU is "better than Renaults"...which is why ALL four Renault-powered cars passed Button and Alonso in quick succession, right? At this point he ought to just keep his head down and his mouth shut.
Anyway, was there a reason why they switched back to the first nosecone? I didn't catch it in any articles...(I much prefer it to the second version).
Well, RBR won't be getting MBZ engines
From Autosport:
The Mercedes board has decided not to supply Formula 1 engines to Red Bull in the future, AUTOSPORT understands.
The news comes the day after it emerged Red Bull will not use Renault power next year, despite having a contract in place with the French manufacturer through to the end of 2016.
Red Bull is understood to have issued a document requesting a termination of its agreement that will be accepted by Renault.
Given the severe breakdown in the relationship between Red Bull and Renault, given the unreliability of the French manufacturer's power unit, the former approached Mercedes enquiring about a supply.
The Mercedes board has now looked at it, with AUTOSPORT sources confirming Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche has decided to bring the tentative discussions to an end following his visit to Monza for the Italian Grand Prix at the weekend.
The thinking behind the move is Mercedes has waited 60 years to find itself in such a position back at the top of F1, and it has no intention of helping out a team with Red Bull's resources become a serious challenger to its success.
When asked ahead of the Italian GP weekend if Mercedes should supply Red Bull with engines, reigning world champion Lewis Hamilton expressed doubts.
"If we're serious about winning the world championship, probably not," said Hamilton.
"Red Bull is a great team, but it's like giving Ferrari our engines.
"We don't really need it. We are good where we are."
Only recently Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff told AUTOSPORT the matter was up in the air as there were pros and cons to the prospect.
At the time, Wolff said: "Supplying one of your championship contenders with big resources, it needs to be carefully judged and balanced as to whether we would want to do that.
"But then from a global perspective, Red Bull is a really phenomenal brand that attracts younger audiences and consumers.
"Therefore you cannot wipe it off the table and say, 'From the team's perspective it doesn't make any sense, so we are not looking at it'."
It would appear to leave Red Bull with the sole fall-back option of getting Ferrari engines, although as of last week it is believed no approach had been made to the Italian marque.
08-25-2015, 05:20 PM
at the slight nod from Frank Williams at the end of the video.
Regardless, if anyone was outted spectacularly, it was "Mad Max" Mosley. Bernie? He's just a rich old weird fuck.
