SENATOR

This is more or less the ILX version of a thread being run in the TLX forums regarding the lurching/jumping/lagging transmission issues that seem to be plaguing the 2015 TLX 4 cylinder (same engine that is now in the 2016 ILX).

I am confirming that indeed, the exact same problems are showing up in my 1-week-old 2016 ILX.

Here are the problems I've noticed (which mirror the TLX problems):

• Lurching into 1st gear when coming to a stop - hard
• Delay when shifting from REVERSE to DRIVE
• Random loss of power when trying to accelerate from a slow roll or standstill

It's important for 2016 owners to document this problem in our own thread, so that Acura sees that this is not just a TSX problem, but has the potential to affect its newest baby in the lineup.

Other than this issue, I would like to state for the record that I LOVE THIS CAR.

usdmJON

Making me love my 2013 tech more.

colohusker

Very sorry to here that, and really hope for all our sake this gets resolved, especially for a new buyer like yourself.


On the other hand, as a TLX owner with issues, im somewhat happy. Perhaps if it plagues both cars they will finally fix the damn issue, or at least get off their asses and start shipping replacement transmissions or something...Anything!. I hope it happens sooner rather than later for you as I started with this same statement:


"Other than this issue, I would like to state for the record that I LOVE THIS CAR".


but after 7 freekin months of crap transmission and nothing being done about it the love has long ago worn off.

Triscuit

One thing that the Acura and Honda community doesn't realize that VW, Audi, and Mercedes does. This transmission is technically two manual transmissions in one. Yes, Acura has tried to cover up the lag from a stop or going into reverse. But, if you go and drive any true DCT transmission car you will notice the lag even more. So people complain the transmission is lagging, but all in all it is acting like a normal DCT. Props to Honda for trying to mask it with a torque converter.

Now if your transmission does not go into gear or slams into park, that's another story.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

So you're saying it's the nature of a DCT to have a 2 - 3 second lag when going from R to D? What's the technical reason for this?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

2 clutches.
one clutch is used for even numbered gears.
2nd clutch is used for odd numbered gears.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I get that - but that doesn't explain why you would get a 3 second lag when you shift from R to D.

colohusker

2 clutches are supposed make the process quicker. And the jump to neutral in 1st & 2nd gear? Even less explainable with two clutches.

This is not a dual clutch issue. I have driven plenty of tlxs now that shift very smooth and clean. No lag r to d. You need to be in a tlx that bangs, lags, goes into neutral, shifts heavy, learches foward, to understand how "abnormal" this is. There is nothing normal or characteristic about it... Which is why acura keeps trying to fix it. Unfortunately, they seem unable to.

AcuraMaybe

This is probably not what anyone wants to hear for a first post, but I just wanted to say that I'm rooting for you guys and I hope that Acura resolves this issue for everyone impacted. I was strongly considering purchasing the 2016 ILX until I saw all of these issues with the 8-speed DCT. It was honestly enough to scare me away from this car and the brand. Just bought a different car today...

weather

^^ It is the same concerns that has made me walk away from a TLX to replace my TL - and this is the guy who has bought/leased 5 Acuras since 2007. What did you end up getting?

AcuraMaybe

I ended up getting a 2015 IS 250 AWD. We were looking for a reliable luxury compact car, so it was down to Acura or Lexus. I really did like the ILX and if this transmission problem hadn't existed I'd be sitting in one now. I hope someone from Acura would see this.

weather

^^ You aren't the last either.

I never thought I'd ever consider not buying an Acura because of concerns over its reliability but for me, it has been a factor. It's not just the issue but their approach to solving these, and a good example is their RDX's problem with teh rear noise (and the ILX to an extent).

It's one thing to have problems right out of the gate but when you sit on these issues and have customer relations just saying that everything is fine and such, you can't help but lose confidence. And we all know what it means to lose confidence in the reliability of a brand....just ask our German brands such as BMW, Audi and such.

Like you, I hope Acura corporate and their team reads these forums, or that the message reaches them. If you compromise quality or how you deal with these, it will come back to haunt you.

Rant over....My apologies but I wanted to stay with Acura but they pushed me away.

usdmJON

So this would mean the first ILX, the last TSX, and the last TL before the TLX marked Acuras last uber reliable line-up?

blacktsxwagon

Please look at the 2nd Generation TSX TSB thread. First year TSX's had sooo many problems. I don't think any of these cars will be unreliable in the long-term, they just need to be sorted out now.

usdmJON

Okay. So the first ILX and last TL marked Acuras last uber reliable line-up?*

blacktsxwagon

That's not the point I was trying to make... My point is, the first year of a new model (and from a powertrain perspective the new ILX is pretty darn new) is historically pretty poor for Acura (and most other manufacturers). If you want to be the first person all on your block to have a new toy, more power to you! Just expect a few bumps along the way.

usdmJON

I see what you're saying.

Seems though the first year ILX is more reliable than the 4th year... yes 4th year got the new powertrain. Just a funny thought.

kevTL888

it seems like Honda/Acura jumped the gun a little quick to green light these new transmissions. the 6 speed auto was just adapted in Acura since 2011, and 3 years later they debuted the 8 speed DCT and 9 speed auto in '15 TLX without anyone knew they were coming. i guess they were sick and tired of hearing how dated Honda/Acura's trannys were and overreacted.

shmobby

I think this is a software thing and will be worked out quickly. There is already a software update that some people have gotten that has given some improvement to some of the issues in the TLX. ILX is a newer vehicle so the software updates will probably take a bit to come out, but that's the good and the bad of computer controlled vehicle components.

weather

There appears to be less issues with the ILX and its new transmission, maybe the software is better in this car or the lack of IDS settings helps?

Maybe there aren't enough 2016 ILX owners on here either...time will tell I guess.

Nomad346

I'm interested in how the 8 speed DCT performs on the 2016 ILX too. I have a week old TLX Tech i4 and the one issue that is really bothering me is the occasional abrupt down shift when coming to a full stop at a red light or stop sign and some instances of hesitant shifts at low speeds. From my experience, the issues with the DCT all manifest at low speeds (<25 mph). Perhaps the software is having problems managing the gears at low speeds.

Fox137

I'm a new owner of a 2016 ILX with approx 600 miles on the ODO. I haven't had any issues with the DCT so far. Shifts have been quick and smooth (Feels even quicker/smoother when using the paddle shifters in Sport mode...)

There is an ever so slight delay when going from R to D.. but def not 2 - 3 seconds.. but long enough to notice a little bit.

I've read the issues in the TLX transmission thread and tried a few of the scenarios were people usually encounter the issues and haven't had an issue yet.

I've also read that some of these issues may appear after computer has learned your driving style, so maybe i'm not at that point yet.. but I will report back as I log more miles.

raven409

You've hit the nail right on the head!! My TLX transmission does most of these abnormal things like: shifting into neutral while in a rotary, hesitating at the wrong times, slamming into first gear after stopping. My service rep didn't believe me, gave me the same story, "it's the nature of the transmission, get used to it". With this transmission you have good days and bad days, that's the mystery of the TLX.

marts230

My 2nd TSX lease expires in June, I just extended it for a few months, a New York City resident, I would have just leased a 3rd TSX if they had continued the model, if the transmission lurches I am looking at a potential accident, Acura will only be a contender if they fix the problem sooner then later

aspec2016

I can say my 2016 shifts incredibly crisp. I know some of early TLX were shipped and prepped without having the proper Idle relearn process performed, that made for a lot of surging when decelerating/downshifting and caused some delayed engagement. As relayed by others this is a new design for Acura so don't be surprised if it doesn't shift like your old car.

SENATOR

And now my car totally died. Went to give it gas, and there was no power. Sat there and had to coast backwards into the shoulder. The heads up is cycling about 6 different errors (check emissions, check stability assist, check power steering, etc,). Tow truck just picked it up.

usdmJON

Damn. Sorry to hear OP.

palini2005

I have had three (3) ACURA's and four (4) HONDA's. Have been completely satisfied with all of them.
My current lease is coming to an end and, as a dedicated ACURA customer, strongly considered the TLX. The transmission issues are very perplexing and the company's response even more so. They just lost another loyal customer.
I have been trying to find a web site for their customer service group, to no avail. If anyone knows it, please share it.
From ACURA such incompetence and indifference was never expected.

stevenv

Have +2000 miles on my 2016 ILX no problems listed have been noticed on my car, my MPG keeps going up as i drive it more...at 29.9 average...50-50 hwy - city. transmission has been flawless!! could not be happier

Thmanx

Owner of a '16 Aspec for 3 a little over 3 months with 7500miles on the clock.
Heres my two pieces on the Acura 8 Speed DCT.

Firstly, its construction.

Unlike the diagram above, the Acura unit is actually quite unique. There is no funny dual-mass flywheel/twin clutch setup between the engine and transmission with individual clutches (a-la an automatic) between each gear. There is just a Torq converter there (Fully locks up @ about 20mph).

Mechanically, the gears are actually set up very similar to a 6 speed gear box (or 8 speed in this case) that is, each gear has a slider, synchros, etc; very Manual Transmission like.

The 'twin clutches' are actually on the opposite side of the transmission, farthest away from the engine. So when you shift, the clutches disengage, electronics manually shift the gear slider to the correct gear, then the clutchs re-engage.

It really is like an electro-hydronic automated manual. The Standard locking TQ converter is just between the engine/input shaft to smooth out starts.

You can see this the internal structure here, I composited the part diagrams to help lay it out (i omitted the 1,3,5,7 Gear stack for simplicity)




This is actually a great thing, it means once your at speed, the engine can shift very quickly just like a true manual gear box can.

========


There are some 'slight' tradeoffs in this design though which I will explain.

Lurching into 1st gear when coming to a stop - hard
This only is an issue when you force the engine to do an abrupt downshift into 1st. But frankly this would happen if you were fiddling around with a manual gearbox also (its mechanically very similar). Under normal D mode the engine will coast and cycle through the gears for you for a smooth stop. In S mode it'll hold each gear till ~2000rpm before down shifting to the next gear until eventually you reach 1st, then it'll drop to neutral below 2000rpm. (just as you would if you were driving a manual anyway)


Delay when shifting from REVERSE to DRIVE
Really? Never noticed it, then again I don't simply punch it in D right after shifting. Since I'm accustomed to my ITRs 5 speed, I always wait a second or two for the gears to flip around before starting off.


Random loss of power when trying to accelerate from a slow roll or standstill
Ive noticed this only if I'm driving in standard D mode and try to punch it, or if the engine shifts gears from 1st-2nd before the TQ converter locks up at 20mph.

In standard D mode, it'll almost feel like 2nd gear shifts twice but thats the feeling of the TQ converter locking up before the computer shifts from 2nd to 3rd. This is only because the standard D mode is so quick to upshift during normal driving speeds. Any Acura 8Speed DCT owner will tell you that if your turning at a protected left turn from a stop, you'll already be in 4th or 5th gear by the time you finish your 90° turn. If you keep firm throttle pressure in S mode or use Sm to change above 20mph you wont notice this at all.




======Real World Experience=====
In my experience, D is designed to mimic as closely as it can to a smooth and quiet operating Automatic can. Its very economical and often figures out the best gear to use the lower torq curve the new DirectInjection system provides. Its quite nice i feel and I've grown accustomed to casually scooting around town at or below 2500rpm w/o any need of more grunt.

The S mode is really interesting, if you really push it hard such as on a twisty canyon or closed track, it'll really keep the engine revving hard as you go in and out of turns, you almost wont even need to do any paddle flipping as it'll keep the engine right where it needs to be. If however you drive in S mode with a light throttle, the revs can stay in the lower 4000rpm range and you might experience some slightly odd behavior, but thats because your asking it to make a casual drive feel like a race car.


When you lock it in Sm you can thrash it around just as you would any excellent Honda Manual transmission. Gear shifts are quick and seamless and you can get a serious groove with the car as you pull in and out of sweeping corners and turns. Just note, when ever you get below 20mph, the TQ converter will un-lock and you'll get that slush-box feel. However, as long as you hold 1st gear up past 6000rpm and obtain that locking speed, it'll be quite behaved.




Sure it might need a little firmware tweak to get it to be perfect, but as a first (or 2nd) go at a completely unique transmissions setup, I think they really did a great job as it could have been HORABLE given the added complexity and logic that is needed to drive the system. (Just look up the Saab Clutchless Manual Sensonic with the blokes at TopGear trying to park the damn thing)

Mfd

Great post on the transmission. Thanks from a potential new owner.

Aaron

Thmanx

I really wish Haynes would pick up the slack and make an official service manual for the vehicle. In there was, we would see better diagrams and full explanations on the operation and function of every nut and bolt.

But in the mean time, at least the diagrams from the Acura eStore are very accurate and detailed. You can screen cap a bunch of parts and re-composite almost every mechanical system in the car. Most of the diagrams are even in the same scale/orientation.

JaxBen_20J

This makes me really glad I got the '14 with the regular 5 speed auto. I had all the issues described in this thread with a 2012 Focus, and it was the only thing that I didn't like about that car. It was enough for me to switch to Acura, though, and I'm really, really happy with the car I got.

Birdflunuggetz

New user, first-time post.

I just bought my '16 ILX A-spec, and have only felt the occasional "bump" of the tranny dropping back into 1st gear after a semi-hard stop. Nothing other than that.

I have encountered none of the delays mentioned when shifting between P and D, no loss of power.

I did, however, score a lifetime powertrain warranty thrown-in on the deal, so long as I get my maintenance done at an Acura/Honda...so I have got that going for me, which is nice.

I do love this car...test-drove quite a few alternatives, and kept coming back to this one. Upgraded from a Dodge Caliber (don't ask how that happened), so I feel like driving is fun again. Turned 300 miles today.

iRaw

Thank you for this post! This is EXACTLY what daily driving a 2016 ILX feels like.

I have about 500mi on my 2016 A-Spec. And while I didn't quite understand why so many owners were complaining about "jerky transmissions" and justifying it by saying, "That's Acura's 8speed DCT for you" Your answer has made it very clear as to what's going on.

D Mode= A very good economical Automatic car. RPM's usually stay below 2,500rpm

S Mode= Like driving a "Smart Race Car" Shifts fast, shifts hard, "heal toe like down shifts under hard breaking" This is really an amazing feature. However, driving like a granny in this mode results in Odd Behavior. It's like driving a Race Car to the Grocery Store as you mentioned. Very harsh jerky downshifts especially in the low rpm range.

Manual Mode= Feels like a Manual Transmission. You tell it when to shift, you tell it when to downshift.


For those that are complaining about "Jerkey Transmissions" Are you folks driving around town all day in Sport Mode?

Thmanx

And believe me, after spending a weekend with the 9 speed ZF transmission in my TLX SH-AWD loaner car (getting front rotors replaced on the ILX), the 8 Speed DCT feels amazingly smoother then the 9 speed does.


That transmission is all over the map, you'l shift 1,2 smoothly, then 2,3 will kick you in the head, and 3,4 will be so smooth it'll feel like the gear is slipping.



That thing is a frantic jittery mess in S+ mode, where as the 8 Speed is everything you want.

D, is eco and smooth

S, is very smart and holds gears logically,

Sm, your own your own, it'll only shift as nicely as you prepare it to.

blaster

So I take it that for 2016 the TLX 4 banger DCT is satisfactory. Thinking of getting a TLX Tech 4 cylinder very soon.

Thmanx

Many other reviewers out there also said they liked the driving dynamics of the 4 cyl version vs the ZF's 9 speed.

Do me the ZF felt very un-refined and inconsistent. Fast shift one gear, slow shift the next, and sloppy shift after that.

Where as the 8 Speed DCT was always right on point.


Just note the 2.4L engine is still trying to pull around more weight in the TLX then the ILX.
Perhaps the P-AWS will help negate some of that and enhance driving feel. The V6 SH-AWD I had as a loaner car simply felt heavy, the added power helped in a straight line but it would simply fall apart in the corners compared to my '16 ILX.

Shane Do

My car has the same issue as well. Sometimes when I come to a stop, the transmission makes a sudden shock likes someone hit me! I wonder if I'm having a lime car!