Sarlacc

Have a small leak in my system...waited too long to address it and now I have no more r22.

I have 3 options.

Try a sealant and refill to the tune of $650

Replace the coil and refill to the tune of $3400

Or replace the whole unit to the tune of $4200

I have heard good things about sealant from several people so I'm inclined to try this option first.

What say the masses of AZ?

Will Y.

Sorry to hear.

1) Warranty over?
How old is the unit?

2) I'd try the sealant, especially since the coil replacement price seems really high.

musty hustla

third question...how was it performing before the leak?

Sarlacc

1) warranty is over, it's about 8 years old. Bought the place new.

2) I think sealant is how we are going

3) it was performing great before and during the leak. I've known about the potential for leak for nearly a year as the cool was freezing up. I just waited until it totally ran out before actually calling an hvac company. Actually, I tried calling some companies off Angie's list about 6 months ago or so but they all sounded like assholes.

I found the current on recommendation from a friend that just used him and it just so happen to time out with the unit running dry on r22.

Will Y.

It might be worthwhile to check the A/C unit manufacturer's warranty if you haven't done that already, to see if it will applies to you as the consumer.

As I understand it, A/C unit manufacturers can have different warranty periods, some up to 15 years.

Sarlacc

I did. I have a big binder from when we moved in with all the individual warranties for items in the condo.

oo7spy

What type and brand of unit is it? If it was performing well, then it sounds like you could get quite a few more years out of it. My compressor shorted out at 9 years and the cost was too close to a new unit to be able to justify replacement. It was run pretty hard by the previous owner though.

thunder04

iTrader: (1)

Since the unit was performing well before you ran out of coolant, I'd say sealing the leak is worth a shot. Though I wonder if this means it's going to leak again...

Sarlacc

Thats the gamble. But its the one I'm taking...having it done tomorrow.

csmeance

I've had the same issue with my 2 carrier units. 2x they were replaced under warranty so I didn't have to pay but lately it happened on my larger unit. I had the HVAC company come out and refill it for $100 (not R22 though) and it's been running pretty well. They didn't put any sort of sealant in either. I'll probably end up refilling it every 2-3 years until I save up a nice chunk of money for 2 new units.

Replacing your unit can be more of a headache than you can imagine! There are so many "grades" of HVAC units that you can end up with a great one for 3-4K or end up with crap for 10K.

thunder04

iTrader: (1)

I take that back. You should buy this unit instead.




Gree 4 Ton 13 SEER R-410A Heat Pump Condenser

oo7spy

Because it is cheaper than a starving hooker or because it might come with an under-aged blonde?

SamDoe1

Just make sure whoever is doing the sealing warrants their work, don't want any of that shit getting into the lines and therefore the compressor.

Sarlacc

Less than a week and it gave out again tonight. Coil is freezing up and the air isn't cold.

I'm going to have words with the guy tomorrow. He had originally said even if I don't do the sealant and just refill the refridgerant it should get me through summer.

And here I am having done the sealant and it seems like the shit leaked out even faster then before.

thunder04

iTrader: (1)

That sucks.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Hopefully worst case they will credit you the sealant and refill cost toward replacement.

Sarlacc

One hopes...I mean 6 freaking days, someone fucked up somewhere. Whether they admit it or not is a whole other story. As well as proving it.

Either way, I left a message with him AND I will be having a 2nd opinion before doing anything. This guy hasn't done much to earn my trust even though he comes recommended from two other friends.

thunder04

iTrader: (1)

Make sure whatever you end up buying is showcased by a model. Only the good ones use models.

Sarlacc

System was definitely empty again. Having the new company, which I already like better, come and do the full leak test.

I have no doubt the first guy found a leak at one of the coils...but I want to be damn sure if I have more than one leak. Because my system is the compressor, the lines, and a blower since Im in a condo...and I found only one company in the country makes the damn blowers, what a racket.

Either way, Im either replacing a coil on the roof, in the ceiling, or replacing the lines...none of which is cheap. Not sure if the lines are taken care of by the HOA or if that is put on us because part of an individual system. And if it comes down to the coils I have to decide if its worth putting in an entire new system. Which would switch me from r22 to 410a and also be more efficient.

The leak test will happen Friday..and it takes a week to work...then how ever long it takes to figure out what to do and actually do it.

On the bright side, my power bill should be much lower because of not running the AC

stogie1020

What an ordeal, and one I fear myself...

I hope they figure it out soon, and cheaply!

Be thankful for your weather... My ass would have to be at a hotel of the in-laws in a flash if the AC went on the fritz.

Sarlacc

It's cool enough but the place gets up to 80 and I can't take it. I have to cold to sleep.

And cheap. There is no getting out of this for less than $5000. $650 for the guy to diagnose, seal, and refill. And now $475 for the leak test. Anything after that is $4k minimum whether the leak is at one of the coils or in the line. If it's in the line it's an ordeal because of the walls of the other condos that would have to be opened up.

If it's a whole new unit. Probably closer to $7k

So no matter what it =

stogie1020

FFS, that sucks.

In hindsight, do you think a home warranty would have covered the issue?

My house is almost 20 years old, and no idea if the AC unit is original (probably). I have thought about the home warranty programs to avoid this type of huge bill, although I know it's tough to get them to replace, only patch jobs...

Sarlacc

It would have but there are drawbacks to that, too. My parents currently have one their house because they are trying to sell it. But you become limited to that warranties network of contractors and their timeline.

My parents had a heater relay go out last winter and the home warranty people didn't have the part and said it would take 3 days. My dad called his hvac guy, he had the part and fixed it. Then my dad had to fight with the warranty to reimburse most of the cost.

It's also like, you may pay for it and never use it. Does that cost add up and make it worth it?

oo7spy

Also, if they decide to replace a unit, you are typically stuck with whatever they choose. If they have a white range and you have an all stainless kitchen, too bad. I guess you could try to sell the appliance yourself and replace it, but that's a hassle. Also, warranties are gambles, and the house wins in the end.

We (our realtor) had the previous owner buy a $700, 13 month warranty in the closing. I didn't even bother paying the service fee to get a guy out there when the oven crapped out. I just bought one that I liked.

YeuEmMaiMai

If you have not done so, take a moment and watch a few Youtube videos to see what is involved with repairing a leak and what the risks are. Where is the leak on your coil? if is down near the bottom and it is not a joint, personally I would go for replacement as A/C coils on the outside of the house tend to rot from the bottom up. If it just leaking at a joint those can be easily fixed by redoing the solder at said joint.

I'd be weary of anyone trying to push a unit on you because it is what is on sale this month....

doopstr

This thread pisses me off because it reminds me how much I hate dealing with HVAC companies. They are worse than car dealers. You know they are ripping you off but impossible to tell by how much.

Sarlacc

This is why it took me so long to finally deal with the issue (when the unit finally ran dry) because when I tried calling a couple companies last year it was, as you said, like dealing with used car salesmen...which is the exact analogy I used.

That said the new company I called I like so far, neither of two people from either company Ive dealt have pushed anything on me, I just asked for ball park numbers for all scenarios. I just like to know what my options are in all cases.

That said, yeah, you still get bent over somewhere. And its not like a lot of this is work you can accomplish yourself.

oo7spy

If time (and the weather) is on your side, go for the fix during the most moderate months (April or Oct here). Demand is down, business is down, and the salesman crap might be minimized. I paid $5800 for a 15 SEER 3 ton heat pump inside and out in April of 2013. A coworker asked me a week ago what I paid because he can't get less than a $7k quote. My parents' went out two days ago. They are "saving $2k" by going with an almost $7k unit from their go to A/C guy (admittedly a bigger house). There isn't much choice when it goes out during summer at least here.

Not trying to rub salt in your wounds, David.

Sarlacc

Its So Cal...we don't really have a moderate period. Yeah Nov/Dec can cool off quite a bit...but there is no way in hell I'm going through the summer without AC. I can't sleep unless its cold, and being home during the day (I'm freelance) sucks even with all windows an doors open with fans going.

Not sure how most single family homes work...but with the condo we have the Compressor on the roof, and a separate blower unit in the ceiling in the actual condo. So, there is a whole big component...which only one company makes. If I use the current company I'm dealing with uses Carrier for compressors.

There is no salt in the wounds...it is what it is at this point. Nothing I can really do about it.

oo7spy

Definitely wasn't suggesting to sweat it out. It was more of general advice for the topic.

Most single home units have the fan and condenser outside on the ground. Copper refrigerant and PVC drain lines run under the foundation then up to the blower/furnace which is either in a room or the attic.

YeuEmMaiMai

since it is a one piece unit, getting the leak repaired might be the best option. Did you ever find out WHERE the leak is? common places are the joints in the coil and where the tubes enter and leave the compressor. Your coil should not have any rot on it since the condenser coil is not sitting on a concrete pad next to your house.

Sarlacc

The unit is under a leak test at the moment. Each of the 3 pieces have been separated and each one is currently pressurized with nitrogen. They return on Thursday to see which of the 3 components is low or empty of nitrogen and we go from there.

There is no fixing the leak. These companies dont pinpoint the exact location and they all said if its the coil there is no fixing it. They wont fix it. And at this point I dont feel like wasting money on fixing it.

If it come to it, Id rather just get a new system, which will be 410A and run more efficient anyway.

doopstr

I'm impressed that you found someone willing to do the test. Many won't bother and just say replace.

Sarlacc

This current company and the last guy were both going to perform the test. The first guy never did because he a quick electronic test and says he found a leak at one of the coils, which is when I tried to the sealant.

But, since this is a condo, you kinda have to do the test because if its the lines, replacing those means cutting into the walls of other peoples homes. A whole pain in the ass I dont want to think about.

Sarlacc

Leak at the fan coil. Setting up to have it replaced next Tuesday.

Final prices were WAY lower than the quotes, thankfully. I was tempted to just go with a new system...but the savings in energy would take years, and hopefully the condenser has a good amount of life left.

stogie1020

Nice. Glad it worked out to cost less than expected. When does THAT ever happen?....

Sarlacc

Smart move on their part. Quote super high. Requote way low. Jump on the "deal"

jdw1

I've had to replace coils before to the tune of ~1800. Your initial quote over 3k seemed way high.

Sarlacc

Oh. You get a special "west Los Angeles" tax around here for this kind of shit.

csmeance

Condenser should be fine, while the guy is out there, have him check the amperage on the motor to see if it's over/under spec. Also you should be able to order/buy the capacitor that connects to the condenser. Mine failed on both my units after 6-7 years so having a backup is handy rather than paying someone another $120 to diagnose a simple issue, then order the part through them.