BIGxRED

I've heard that on the 3rd generation TLs and on the MDX, Acura recommends changing the transmission fluid 3x (three times) in order to completely remove all of the transmission fluid. Apparently, the first time you change the fluid, not all of it is drained out. The majority of the oil is still stuck within the trans between the gears. Hence, they recommend changing the oil once, drive the car for a few miles, change it again, and then drive a few miles once again and do one more trans fluid change.

Does this apply to our 4th gen TLs as well? Someone on this thread directed me to a YouTube video for how to change the trans fluid. However, the video doesn't mention anything about changing it out more than once. I want to make sure since this will be the first time I'm ever changing a trans fluid myself.

Btw, can anyone comment on how similar the MDX is to the 4th gen TLs? How about the Honda Ridgeline? I've watched a transfer case fluid change video for a Ridgeline and it actually seems to be pretty similar to my TL.

lltfly

I saw the post which mentioned the 3 times trans fluid change.
I did two times on dealership. Current fluid of mine is clean. Plan to do it again next year.

jim_c

Do some more research.
The fluid does not get stuck between the gears, LOL.
Even changing the fluid three times does not remove all the dirty oil because you cannot drain the torque converter (or the cooler, which is less significant). The TC holds almost half the oil in the system.

Tonyware

The 3rd generation TLs transmissions are completely different from the 4th generation ones. The 3rd were prone to failures, big time. The MAYA and BAYA transmissions, also found on the 7th generation Accord (v6)... if you didn't change the oil regularly and then changed the oil once, there was a good change that trimmings falling during the oil drain will get stuck in valves and gears and take out the transmission. This doesn't appear to happen with the 4th generation TLs transmissions BK3A or BK4A.

If you change your transmission fluid every 3rd engine oil change (or as the maintenance minder tells you to do) you will be ok.

dvd2012tl

I agree with Tonyware. Don't do the 3X change. I change the transmission fluid every other oil change. My 2012 just rolled past 100K and transmission is the component I worry the most about. It is shifting smooth now and I don't want that to change. The fluid change is simple (I fill back through the dipstick) and the fluid is 7-8 $ per quart. Good insurance as I intend to drive this car well past 200K.

andysinnh

I'll concur with others. I always try to do a drain/fill of the ATF every 25k or so and have had great success with Honda/Acura automatics over the years (dating back to a 1990 Integra as my first dance with Honda). Actually, I've never actually seen any behavior change before/after a fluid change - except with the wife's TL which got a much better feel back after the drain/fill last week (had gotten jerky in lower gear changes). The 3x method isn't needed unless you wait until like 70k to do it for the first time - and then maybe I'd do it 2x, not 3x.

andy

hashbrown

This is awesome! Only thing i worry about in my 12' TL is the tran. Have you done any changes in the transfer case/rear diff/pressure switches?

Reorge

ALL modern automatic transmissions can't be fully drained. If you're having tranny issues (I could include a joke here) or if the fluid is old and needs to be fully replaced, a 3x is recommended. My Son purchased a used 04 Accord and I did a 4x to make sure the fluid was new. Still with a 4x the fluid was on 89.8% new by calculation because this tanny holds 6.9 qts and drains only 3. My 2012 TL-AWD holds 8.2 and drains 3.3.

The tranny's, transfer assy's, and rear differentials for TL, RL, MDX, & Ridgeline use the same procedure to change their respective fluids.

I do as Tonyware, one drain/fill every 3rd oil change (which for me is 15,000 miles). Also for the 2012+ 4g's, change the external inline filter. There have been issues with it getting clogged (TSB issued to address). It is a dealer part.

jim_c

Good work Reorge. (Any particular reason why your Son gets the upper case S?)
I am all in favour of clean fluids but I'm not sure changing the fluid ever really fixes anything if there is a serious issue in a transmission's operation. The primary purpose of ATF is to apply hydraulic pressure to various clutches and valves when called for. Dirty oil and clean oil will work about the same in this regard.

Reorge

Contrary to a common misconception (which I held for many years) it is the proper use of capitalization. I was referring to a particular individual.

"In other words, capitalize words such as "Mother," "Father," "Grandmother," "Grandfather," "Son," "Daughter," and "Sis" when they are used in place of the person's name." Dictionary.com

I'm still learning new things in my 50's. Now if I could only figure out women.

Reorge

Just to let people know, H/A had MAJOR problems with it s V6 tranny's starting around 1999 and ending about 2004. My 1999 TL was on it's 3rd rebuild when I sold it at 14 years old & 172k miles. There was many lawsuits which converged into a class action type which H/A eventually lost. H/A extended the warrany for many of this transmissions. It effected three of our family vehicles at the time so needless to say, it left a "bad taste" that I personalty shall not forget. The local dealer (Owner of the NFL's New Orleans Saints) were A-holes about it until the lawsuit. This is the reason I went to the next city 70 miles away to buy my current TL.

Therefore, I'm a little more proactive when it comes to tranny maintenance. I think the design defects have been corrected but fresh fluid and a clean filter (if it has one that can be serviced) give me a little piece of mind.

Tonyware

Actually you spend the first half of your life trying to understand women and the rest trying to forget what you learned

(thanks for the laugh this morning!!)

BIGxRED

I can't say it enough, you guys rock! Reorge, where exactly is the external inline filter? I thought the tranny filter was internal and have heard that it is good for the life of the car. Is this a part that I can get through a local store (O'Reilly's, Advanced Auto Parts, etc.) or should I go OEM/dealer? This is also the first time I've heard someone mention this and don't believe there's a step-by-step procedure (either pictures or video) on how to do this. I'm very novice when it comes to mechanic work unfortunately. Hey, ya gotta start somewhere

Holy smokes, glad that I didn't get a V6 around that time. . . Always interested in a little history, thank you sir!

Reorge

Only for 2012+. Search threads in this forum. It has been addressed several times.
AT OIL LEVEL GAUGE - ATF PIPE (6AT) for 2012 Acura TL Item 3

BIGxRED

Good grief, I'm blind and/or not the most careful reader...

Is this something I should replace then at the same time as taking out the fluid? I should have the fluid in time for this weekend, but I'm not sure if I'll receive the filter in time as well.

BIGxRED

Also, I've searched around this forum, but I could not find a thread that directly related to my case (only 2012+ TLs, transmission filter replacement). I did find a post or two that mentioned that the filter is located beneath the battery.

So is that all there is to it? Just get beneath the battery somehow, find the filter, and swap it out with a new one? Are there any additional parts I may want to order such as washers?

I initially thought the filter would be reachable from underneath the car (that's at least what the diagram looked like) and replace it while also replacing the fluid, but it seems like I can get to it from the engine bay.

Am I missing anything on this?

jim_c

I am curious too although my car (2010) does not have the external filter. Why would Acura decide they needed to change to a serviceable filter? Hmmm. Can anyone report on what this filter is like? Is it like an oil filter e.g.?
In the old days (1960s - 1990s) there were basically three types of trans filters and almost all were easily replaceable by removing the pan. There were some that were very crude metal screens about like the mesh in a screen door. Then they were made with plastic, maybe nylon, but they were very flimsy and would easily melt! Some were made with a kind of fabric like a heavy wool cloth. These were just intended to prevent large chunks of metal or clutch material from getting sucked up by the trans oil pump. Most of them were never changed over the life of the vehicle. If Acura felt it was necessary to add a replaceable filter, they must have figured the units are generating significant internal debris. (Probably from the failing lockup clutches in the torque converters?) If a trans filter gets seriously plugged up by debris or varnish, it can make a whistling noise at start up and lead to reduced pressures at the transmission's clutches where high pressure is needed for engagement.

Reorge

Based on my previous history with H/A transmission I’ve researched them a great deal.

- The 2012+ TL filter is labeled as “not a maintenance item” and is there only to protect the heat exchanger within the radiator and external cooler (if equipped) from debris accumulation. H/A recommends changing it only when a new or rebuilt transmission is installed. To me this is crazy talk. Especially in light of the TSB that acknowledges the filter does get clogged with normal use.

- I’ve changed my filter twice. First time was difficult because I didn’t have long two pivot pliers. Hose clamps are the most difficult part. Second time was much easier (~20 min) with this correct plier to remove the hose clamps. The filter does have an inlet and an outlet but they are not labeled and the hose connections are identical. If you install it backwards it will not reinstall into the mounting bracket correctly, if at all. Not a big deal but who wants to remove and reinstall again.

- It is the same external filter used on my Son’s (or son’s) 2004 Accord so it’s a commonly stocked part at the Honda dealers. Part number is 25430-PLR-003 and the Acura dealers might have them as well. I buy mine from an internet source.

- When it comes to automatic transmissions H/A is the black sheep of the family. The automatics have gears typically found in manual transmissions while most common automatics have planetary gear sets. I don’t know if that’s significant but H/A does like to be different than everyone else. As I’ve stated above the 1999+ V6 transmissions have many problems and they refused to admit it until they got sued. Their attitude was like “there’s nothing wrong with something we designed and built” until the facts came out in court. Even Stevie Wonder could see the problem but it took the courts to make them look.

BIGxRED

The filter is located directly beneath the battery though, correct? What is involved to remove and replace the filter? You've mentioned house clamps. Do those directly connect to the filter?

I haven't done too much work on cars before, so that's why I'm asking all the questions. . . I'd like to know what I'm getting into before diving my head underneath the engine bay.

I'm sure everyone has encountered this, but I want to avoid having to go to the auto parts shop in the middle of the job :/

Reorge

The filter is on top of the transmission and almost under the battery. This is what it looks like in a Civic (same part number filter) but our TL does not have that much room. Honda Civic R18 ATF Filter change.... | ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S | Bob Is The Oil Guy Removing the battery didn't help much because the battery tray was still in the way. To make the job easier I utilized long needle nose pliers that have two pivots. (double-x plier) Long double-x regular width pliers would work better on the hose clamps.
This is a similar to what I have (one is enough). These would work better. Some hose clamps have split ends (aka: Constant Tension Lite Band Clamps) ... HCL Clamping | Compensating Spring Hose Clamps - Rotor Spring Band Light Hose Clamp - Constant Tension
... therefore the wider head on the pliers helps.

You will need to add about a 1/2 quart of DW-1 fluid after installation.

BIGxRED

Reorge, you are the man! I would hit the Thanks button multiple times if I could

I called my local dealer today and they said that they have the filter in stock, so I plan on picking that tomorrow. I plan on taking some pictures and writing up a step-by-step guide on replacing the filter. . . As along as all goes well and I don't break anything

kchorro

Hi BigxRed,
How hard was to change the ATF filter?
How hard was to change the trans oil?
How much trans oil did you need?
I'm planning to do it on my also.
I really appreciate all your help and comments.

BIGxRED

Hey everyone! I know that this is well over a month late, but I just wanted to thank all of you for your help on this. I did the job about a month ago and all went smooth as butter.

The filter was a pain in the neck to take out. Sure enough, those clamps on the filter were more stubborn than trying to get a 2 year old to leave Toys R Us. Everything went well though, thanks to all of you guys.

BIGxRED

The ATF filter was pretty painful to get out, but it wasn't that bad. I first had to take out the battery, which wasn't bad at all. There's a bracket underneath the battery though (the battery sits on this) and that was a bit of work, but again not too painful. Once we took off the bracket, we realized there was an easier way to get it off. I can't comment on that though since I did this with a friend and he worked on that part of the project. All I can say is to take a good look around the bracket and see what the easiest way to take it off is. We ended up taking out about 8 screws to take it off.

The real pain in the neck is getting the clamps off the hoses that connect to the filter. I'd recommend giving yourself an extra hour for this part unless you have a well rounded collection of different kinds of pliers laying around. I can't remember how we got it off, but we ended up finding some tool in the garage that worked. The clamps I had to take off looked exactly like this:



Changing the transmission oil wasn't too bad at all. The main part is to make sure you have long enough extensions to your socket wrench to reach the fill plug. I used the following YouTube video as my main reference:


I can't recall exactly how much oil I needed. What I did was I used an oil pan that had markings on the inside so that I knew how much oil was originally in there. Then I went ahead and filled in the same amount. I was reading elsewhere that it wasn't uncommon to fill in up to 4 quarts.

Hope all of that helps.

petroboy37ent

My mechanic works for honda for 20 + years. He has agreed on the 3x fluid change. He actually taken them apart and rebuilt them before.

954Rocks

I do the 3x DW-1 fluid change every 2 years (about 30K miles for me). Transmission will feel slightly jerky in lower gears before, but after change returns to normal. Did this for my 2nd gen TL-S as well. May try the filter change this time around.

petroboy37ent

if you go that route let me know the part number for that filter

petroboy37ent

quick question is there a 2005 trans filter by chance?

Reorge

If you use the long pliers as I mentioned earlier in this tread you wont have to take the battery out.

I listed he part number for the 2012 to 2014 trans earlier in this tread

It does have one but it's different and built into the trans case.
AT OIL LEVEL GAUGE - ATF PIPE (-'06) for 2005 Acura TL Items 7, 21, & 22 (I also changed the spring, item 11).
It's the same as an 05 Accord V6 (google it for how-to video).
I changed my ex's 05 Accord and it was doable but a little more involved.
Had to remove the air filter box. I also removed the solenoid assy and cleaned it out but it was not necessary. Both can be see disassembled in the attached pic.

petroboy37ent

Thank you for the info. Is it hard to change in the 05 tl?

asb32952

Is there a return cooling line going back to the radiatior? Are the filters the same for a 2001 and 2009 tl?

Reorge

2012-2014: Yes
2009: I don't know, filter is not serviceable (it's behind torque converter)
2001: ? (different filter)

2012-2014, 2009, and 2001 are all different filters.

scottn3

Rather than do a 3x3, I like to do a full exchange by unhooking the ATF lines (going to the cooler) and let is suck in new fluid (from a jug) while pumping out the old fluid (into a bucket).

Can someone please tell me the direction of fluid flow in the ATF cooler lines? I need to know which line on the transmission is the 'output' and which is the 'input'. There are 2 fittings coming off the 6AT - one points towards the driver's side tire (connected to the filter) and one points towards the radiator. Can someone please tell me (with certainty) which one is the input & output?

jim_c

The flow is usually from the torque converter to the cooler then back to the pan. Disconnecting the lines at the cooler is actually a very good way to do the fluid changeover. Just disconnect both lines (if you don't know which is which - it can be hard to tell) and run the engine to pump out the dirty oil from the TC. Then stop and add fresh oil to the pan via the fill hole or the dipstick. Start the engine again and run it until you get clean oil from the disconnected hose at the cooler. Connect the hoses and check the oil level via the dipstick. Top up as needed. You will end up with almost 100% clean oil in the system. Best way is to disconnect the return line that sends cool oil back to the trans, but if you don't know which line is which it doesn't really matter. Hope this is clear. (?)

scottn3

Yes, clear. I've actually done this 3 times on other vehicles. I wish I knew the flow direction. I like to take it 1 step further and have it suck in the fresh fluid while pumping out the old fluid - that way it doesn't run with only half fluid.
I guess I can let it run for a second to determine and then put the suction hose in the fresh oil container.

S power

Cooling standards are hot on top and cools as the fluid moves down.

jim_c

So long as there is some oil in the system you will not hurt anything by running it in neutral for a few minutes with low ATF level. This is what happens whenever a new or rebuilt unit is installed. Fluid is just added via the dipstick and the pump fills the TC, the cooler and the rest of the system.

scottn3

I wish this ATF cooler had a top and a bottom line feed...but one hose comes in on the top right and one leaves on the top left.

hashbrown

I'm about to get my 3rd ATF change over. My mechanic says the filter shouldn't need changing unless replacing the transmission also. But i plan to do this as preventative maintenance. Since I'm not going to do the filter change at the time of atf changeover can this be done w/o a large amount of fluid loss? Does the line hold alot of fluid? I plan to either do the filter change right before fluid change or immediately after.

doggydog

I did the first 1x1 at 25,000 miles. Did 1x1 every 15,000 miles after that.
At 165,000 miles my tranny just died. No signs ,no issues ,no stuttering just died. My tranny was smooth up to this point.
I never did switch out the 3rd and 4th switch. Maybe that would of help, maybe.

( https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...der-tl-721508/)

I am now on a rebuilt at 206,OOO miles.