nickceci51

This is why I love Acura, and it is no doubt this TL is going to sell great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcrjRXnmRx8

OffTopik

That dude works at an Acura dealership. Can't get more bias than that.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

What an unbiased review

nickceci51

you guys are crazy, i dont understand you. i guess i never realized but i may just really subconciously be in love with acura. this guy states nothing but the truth (factual information) which blatantly shows what a better value the tl is. i cant agree more on what he has to say about the interior, the bmw's being so bland and lest spacious than the tl. so why do you guys call this review biased? bottom line is that the bmw costs a lotttt more for having less space in the cabin, and an outdated looking interior.

Spiritman

I would have liked MORE info. I don't car if you think he is bias or not.....
Thanks!

JeffS

You mean a Car & Driver review?

darth62

I was in both cars this weekend, and completely disagree. The 2009 with Idrive is far from being "outdated." IMO, it has far nicer materials and a slightly "cleaner" look than the TL (although that is partially because a bunch of buttons are bundled together in that wacky Idrive dial). The 3-series has a much more upscale interior (again, IMO). I also thought it had more ergonomic "gotchas" than the TL and fewer thoughtful touches.

Still, cost being equal, I doubt there are many people who would take the TL first.

lumpulus

But cost is NOT equal, not even close.

I did "build your own" for both and equipped both with NAV and features

335xi $52,445

TL SH-AWD $44,100.

The 335 is not an $8k better car than the TL, IMHO.

nickceci51

Agreed! thanks for backing me up lol!

TLorNotTL

And like the video says, the TL is more of an apples-to-apples with the BMW 5-series which is even more (WAY more) expensive. (TSX vs 3-series, TL vs 5-series, RL vs. 7-series)

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

The review is biased because it praises the TL in every aspect (except handling) as opposed to giving the pros and cons of each car.

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not opposed to your enthusiasm about the 09 TL. There's nothing wrong with that.

6SpdTerror

I think a lot of you guys are still blinded by name and badge. I work for Honda and our sister store sells Acuras. Nothing that guy said in his review was false so i dont see it as biased. I had 2 customers trade in a 335 coupe within the last month, one convertible and one 6mt coupe. Guess what they traded them in for?? Navi v6 accords. Saved them a couple hundred dollars a month for a really nice car that wont ever give them a problem. I drove the 335 and it's fast as hell but still drives like shit and shifts like shit.
If any of u doubt me and are in the NYC area, come on down to Hillside Honda!! I got 2 335s for sale if u want them; 1 conv and 1 coupe.

PetesTL

It all really comes down to what the buyer wants......all-out performance and the "prestige" of owning a Bimmer or the value and comfort of a TL. You really can't go wrong with either car. The 335i is a fantastic car and it was on my short-list before I got my 4G. I hear the new 335 diesel is even more fantastic (400+ ft/lbs torque and 24 MPG city!). Bottom line is, what does the buyer thinks it's more important...price? performance? features?

6SpdTerror

Dont get me wrong the 335 is a very nice looking car and has a lot of power but drive a TL then drive a 335 and tell me which one you prefer. Ive always said if i was to drive a bimmer it would have to be an M model, if i got a merc or an Audi it would have to be AMG or S/RS model cuz they offer somthing Acura doesnt.......brute force! When Acura gets in to the High performance muscle car game, then i wouldnt even think of getting anything else.

JAB00

The bottom line is that people are going to pay a premium for the BMW badge. Most people who are not terribly knowledgeable of cars will recognize the BMW and associate with luxury. A lot of people (specifically females) wouldn't know an Acura if they were sitting in it. Take that from my 18 yr old sister. After 3.5yrs of having the car, she asked what kind of car it was, while I was giving her a ride.

darth62

I'm not going to try and convince you that the Beemer is a better VALUE. Heck, I've been driving Honda sedans for 20 years so that should tell you where I think of the respective values. But, the above poster was trying to suggest that the Acura interior is much nicer than the Beemers - and that is simply not the case.

darth62

I did drive both this weekend. I prefer the 3-series. In terms of handling, it is not even close. The 3-series absolutely kills the FWD TL (I've not driven the SH-AWD so can not comment). The steering is a different league in the 3-series.

Engine smoothness and responsivity is about equal. I think the Auto tranny in the Acura was a bit slicker though and seemed a tad more responsive.

Ride is about equal, and I give the nod in interior comfort to the Beemer. And, I even think the cabin electronics favor the Beemer slightly because the new version of the Idrive/Navigation system is actually pretty cool (last year, I wouldn't have said this). The Beemer does not have a backup camera though.

Totally subjective, but it is also not close in looks. The 3-series is sleek and sporty looking, and the TL borders on being ugly. Of course, people used to say the Bangle Beemers were ugly too. I think the Acura may wind up growing on a lot of people.

The only place the TL is the superior vehicle is interior space. But, that is offset, IMO, but the fact that the exterior dimensions of the TL put it into whale territory.

The TL is a good value, will be reliable, and Acura is far more responsive company to deal with than BMW. But, IMO (and this is just my opinion), I don't think the Acura is even competitive with the Beemer as far as overall performance is concerned.

And, one more comment, is that I think the TL vs. 3-series comparison is sort of irrelevant. I doubt many 3-series buys will cross-shop the TL. Instead, the TL will likely snipe customers form the much duller ES350 and the more down market Maxima.

To me, the reason the TL is so enticing is that it is a combination of the best of lots of cars. It offers balance, great bang for the buck, and should provide a hassle-free ownership experience. But, it does not compete with the Beemer in overall dynamics (nor should it be expected to).

Fishy

I didn't think I would like the 4G from the pictures but I saw it in person recently and it actually looks good. But its just a little too big, comparable to the BMW 5 series actually.

I think the 09 TSX is more like the 3 series and the 3G TL. If Acura ever put the 3.5L V6 in it then it would sell like hotcakes just like the 3G TL. Its strange that you can get it in the 09 Accord but not the 09 TSX (which is essentially a high end Accord).

In any event, if the newer TL's stays that size, then I'd pick one up in 4 years after my daughters grow bigger and I need more space in the back seats.

For now, I'm rocking in my 08 TL-S modded with 2 child seats and doing the daily commute.

darth62

/thread.

This sums it up nicely.

Fishy

First part no, I don't agree. Second part yes, I agree.

The TL and TSX handily beat the 3 series where you would expect BMW to dominate: on a real race track with real professsional drivers with stock to race modded cars.

Where BMW's "dynamics" is superior is in the hands of magazine journalists, yuppie posers and weekend warriors who like to have fun playing boy racer, like most of us here

darth62

I defy you to find a single documented instance of the TSX (and keep in mind that I drive a TSX) "handily" beating the 3-series on the track.

PetesTL

In my opinion, the 4G (esp. the FWD version) competes more directly with the 328i as far as price is concerned. And in this comparison, the 4G will beat the 328i in just about every category......performance, features, price, value, and reliability.

CL6

Nobody spends $45,000 on a car (or $55,000 for that matter) based upon logic... it's all emotion. The 5 Series is supposed to compete with the RL (in fact when the RL was put on the Ride & Drive Acura had a nice comparison putting the cars head-to-head) and the 3 Series competes with the TL.

I admire the sales guy for putting together that video but passion sells cars, not logic. BMWs are a great drive and I'd take one any day over an Acura, even though I own an Acura.

But the TL does have this going for it.

darth62

This is absolutely not true. The FWD TL isn't in the same league with the 328i in terms of handling and steering feel. Probably not in braking either. It will accelerate faster but that is about it. As far as dynamics is concerned, not even close. I'm not saying the TL doesn't handle as well - I'm saying it isn't close.

And, in terms of features, the three series has lots of stuff available that you can't even get on the TL (heated steering wheel, power rear shades, bmw assist, internet connectivity, etc).

Now, if you're talking value, reliability, and comfort - that is another issue. BMW will never been in the same class as Acura with regard to reliablity or value. To option a three series up to the standard level of equipment on the TL, you'd easily spend $45,000. And, after that, you'll pay and pay because parts and and the cost to maintain are crazy.

cp3117

I agree....The last i checked a 1G TSX struggled to compete with a VW GLI. Now it's a 3 series killer....i dont think so.

This review is extremely biased by his own opinion with the odd fact thrown in, but i really dont blame him being he does have to make a living.

Someone mentioned people trading in a couple 335's for Accords. While i do believe this happened and they did downgrade to the Accord. I imagine something called a "Market Meltdown" had something to do with it.

Someone else compared a RL to a 7 Series .
Even the CEO for Honda just admitted in a recent release that "Acura cant compete with other premium brands" such as BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus etc.

While i agree that the 4G TL is a nice car and that each person has their own tastes, some of these comparisons seem way out in left field......or maybe i just need some of that Cool-Aid that a few are drinking.

darth62

IMO, Acura in general (and the TL in particular) compete quite well with BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus, etc. The TL offers lots of bang for the buck in a reliable package that is sure to provide a great ownership experience. Acura owners generally love their vehicles for those reasons, and keep on coming back.

What the TL is NOT is an BMW killer or a vehicle that offers the dyanamics of a world class sports sedan like the 3-series. Instead, the TL offers balance at a great price. There is nothing it doesn't do well and few things it does exceptionally.

Fishy

http://www.realtimerl.com/news



There's a few 330i drivers at work who think they are all that but they cannot look me in the eye because they know my TL-S is faster on the road and on the track. I should follow them on their track days and mock them mercilessly.

lumpulus

If you're talking build quality, I can't speak to that, because I haven't had a chance to see both "side by each" to compare, but ergomonically speaking, I personaly feel no one can beat Honda\Acura. My '06 RL controls are as close to perfect as it gets, IMHO.

I have said it before...I LOVE most of BMW's exterior designs(except Z3-Z4), but I also think their interiors are too spartan looking, and the reliability is not what it should be(for the price).

All things being equal...I'd have a Daytona Spyder.

PetesTL

You seem to imply the new TL steers and handles like a boat compared to the 328i. I test drove the 328i (as well as a 335i) and to me, the TL is very competitive to the 328i in that regard. Sure, maybe at the track, the 328i may have a slight edge in ultimate cornering ability, but the TL can hold its own. I'm sure once the actual test numbers get published, this debate can be settled a little bit more. Out in the real world and in day-to day city driving, the TL is the better car to drive and live with.

Legend2TL

You sorta took the quote out of context, the CEO was referring to the 3.7RL specifically and the need for a V8. Here's the quote.

http://jalopnik.com/5065969/honda-ce...-get-v8-engine

Legend2TL

The majority of consumer buyers of automobiles use some logic and some emotion when purchasing a car. Maybe to a small select few all emotion comes into play, but most folks use both when buying.

bf17738

Honestly, I dont think Acura considers BMW, MB, or Audi it's true competition. I think it's more realistic to compare Honda's premium brand to Toyota's premium brand (Lexus), and Nissan's premium brand (Infiniti). I think that a SH-AWD TL should consider a G35/37x Sport as it's main competitor. Whereas Acura might aspire to the BMW realm, I dont think they are trying to be equal to, or top the 335xi. And as others have pointed out, the TL is a lot bigger than the 3-series... it's more of the size of a 5. I dont see Acura gunning for BMW for the Ultimate Driving Machine title.

Like others have said, Acura offers most importantly, EXCEPTIONAL value, and a mix great handling, performance, and style.

Lexus has chosen to aspire to top BMW/MB/Audi with it's LS sedan and it's obvious that they were going after the M3 with the new IS-F... And, as we have seen, Infiniti has also chosen to go after BMW especially with the G sedan and coupe...

However, I think Acura has kept themselves semi-grounded in realizing that most Acura buyers arent looking for a car that destroys a BMW... rather a car that competes well with the other premium brands, but undercuts them by thousands of dollars.

I honestly believe like I said before, that the best apples to apples comparo would be 2009 TL SHAWD vs. 2009 G37x Sport. They are about the same in price, and offer basically the same equipment, and are sorta the same size (TL is bigger tho). Ideally, I think a performance comparo should be done with these two cars for the most accurate competition.

Eventho the TL would be sorta comparable to the ES350... the 2 cars are dynamically different. The Lexus is a middle aged to elderly fart mobile that is ALL luxury whereas the TL is a luxury sport sedan... so i dont think many people would cross-shop these 2 models.

My advice to anyone who IS doing cross shopping... compare the TL SHAWD to the g37x Sport and if you have the money to burn... check out the 335xi... But, the best VALUE would be either the TL or the g37.

I can speak from experience as I own both a 2007 TL-S and a 2008 g35xSport.

Interesting side note - The voice activation on Acura BLOWS Infiniti OUT OF THE WATER!!! The Infiniti has maybe 20 phrases that you can say whereas the Acura has I think over 300!!!!! It's nuts. In the Infiniti, you cannot ask the G to "find the nearest Gas Station/ATM/Bank/Police Station/Hospital/Hotel/_____ Restaurant" etc... That's the cars biggest fault. I hope on the 2009, they improve that. Also, the Navi system is mostly disabled while driving... Dumb!

6SpdTerror

U guys must be forgetting the recent test and review by edmunds that shows the 4g tl shawd 6MT handily beating the 335i and xi, the g35x and the AUDi S4 by at least 2 seconds on a racetrack. So much for german driving dynamics.
Ill be the first to tell you that the 335 i was driving over the last week is faster than my Type-s but ill take my TL anyday of the week. I sell cars for a living and have driven everything from lambos to M cars to s5, NSX, AMGs, Astons, etc. Not just around the corner either....ill have these cars for days. Maybe because i do this for a living but i dont get caught up in the emotion and badge hype. As far as im concerned, the only thing Acura lacks is decent horsepower which they seem to be addressing with the new breed of cars.
For those of you who feel a BMW is the "be all" and "end all" of cars......go buy or lease one and let me know how you feel in 4 months.

darth62

First, let me be clear that I was comparing the TSX and TL to the 3-series, not the RL. And, my comparison was based primarily on material quality, not ergonomics.

TL clearly beats the 3-series on ergonomics, IMO. In both the 3rd and 4th generation TL, every button seems to be where it is supposed to be. The 3-series has got a few mind blowing ergonomic snafus - like cupholders that are virtually non-functional.

Now, if you want to compare the RL to the 3-series (which may be quite fair, actually, because you can have a RL for about the same price as loaded 3-series), I think the material quality argument goes away. The RL's interior is on par with anything from Germany in the price class (IMO). This, btw, is part of the reason I came so close to buying an RL.

darth62

When did I say the TL "handles like a boat?" For the class, I actually think the overall handling of the TL is superb. Note that I am saying "handling" here - which refers to overall dynamics of the body and supsension. If you want to talk "steering" - then I'd put the TL below even the ES350. I hate the numb EPS and think it practially ruins a wonderful vehicle.

Do I think it handles as well as a 3-series? Absolutely not. And, I don't think the difference is "slight" either. But, that is hardly surprising giving that the 3-series is smaller, more balanced, and FWD. You're talking about a larger, nose heavy, FWD car. The TL handles great for what it is, but it will never compare in overall performance to a 3-series (or any Beemer for that matter). The 3-series handles far better, but the TL outshines it in many other areas (reliablity, ergonomics, seating comfort).

According to CR, the handling on the TL is "competent, but not exceptional." I think that about sums it up.

As for the observation that the TL is "the better car to live with..." - I'm curious, exactly how many 3-series have you owned?

darth62

EDMUNDS hasn't tested the TL SH-AWD yet. Those comments were first impressions based upon driving the topline TL at an Acura event.

Also, when I was making comparison statements regarding handling it was based on my test drives. I've not driven the TL SH-AWD, which is not yet available out here in California. Maybe it handles a lot better than the FWD TL - but I simply can't say at this point.

darth62

Oops. Typo. I meant the 3-series was "smaller, more balanced, and RWD."

b827

I had a 3G TL and a 2008 335i so speaking from experience I can say the craftsmanship and overall feel of the 335 is MUCH better than the TL.

There were certain things I missed about the TL but all in all the 335 was worlds apart from the TL. Comparing the 2009 TL and 2009 335 is not fair because they are two completely different animals. Though the 335 costs substantially more, it is far superior to the TL.

Throw a tune on your 335 and you can be close to 400whp , you will never get that out of your 4G TL.


/Thread!

PetesTL

.....throw a supercharger or a turbo into the Acura 3.5 or 3.7 V6 along with a few tweaks and you can easily get close to 400hp. People can do just about anything these days to get more hp......it's all about how much do you want to spend.

darth62

Honestly, even the base 328i has enough HP for me. And, the FWD TL pulls like a freight train. The HP wars are silly, because all of these cars are more than powerful enough.