How to get more mpg?
03-29-2011, 12:53 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
How to get more mpg?
I've had my tsx 05 for bout a month now, and despite its 127,000 miles already on it, I love it.
I've read extensively on multiple acura/tsx forums on mpg, and I see numbers with 25+ on city driving and 35+ highway, and that makes me really jealous, as I've been getting only ~23 mpg.
I don't have a heavy foot, and my RPM hardly goes past 2.5, so I would to know if there are any specific mods that will increase mpg? So far from my research, it seems like stock would be best with probably a new aftermarket filter, or possibly an CT icebox, but i wanted to get your guys' opinion for MPG improvement alone.
I've read extensively on multiple acura/tsx forums on mpg, and I see numbers with 25+ on city driving and 35+ highway, and that makes me really jealous, as I've been getting only ~23 mpg.
I don't have a heavy foot, and my RPM hardly goes past 2.5, so I would to know if there are any specific mods that will increase mpg? So far from my research, it seems like stock would be best with probably a new aftermarket filter, or possibly an CT icebox, but i wanted to get your guys' opinion for MPG improvement alone.
03-29-2011, 01:17 PM
#2
El Cunado
Is your goal to save at the pump? Spending a few hundred dollars for more miles-per-gallon would save at the pump but not overall; even if you keep the car/mods for a long time.
I think efficiency mods would include cold-air intake, lightweight pulleys, headers, and high-flow catalytic converter.
These do increase potential power output, but if you drive the same, I'd expect a little more efficiency.
I think efficiency mods would include cold-air intake, lightweight pulleys, headers, and high-flow catalytic converter.
These do increase potential power output, but if you drive the same, I'd expect a little more efficiency.
03-29-2011, 07:00 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I guess I would like to save at the pump, but i like being as green as possible, so that's why i prefer higher mpg.
the cold air intake was the first part that got me interested in raising mpg, but would that reduce low end torque of the tsx?
the cold air intake was the first part that got me interested in raising mpg, but would that reduce low end torque of the tsx?
03-30-2011, 12:36 AM
#4
Moderator
I think the best way to gain higher MPG with no extra cost is changing the way you drive.
Accelerate slower and go the speed limit. I've tried it and my MPG increased dramatically.
But for me that doesn't last long, hahaha. I break that saving-gas mentality here and there and never truly commit to going the speed limit. But if you are trying to save that much, drive like a grandma and you'll definitely save gas.
Accelerate slower and go the speed limit. I've tried it and my MPG increased dramatically.
But for me that doesn't last long, hahaha. I break that saving-gas mentality here and there and never truly commit to going the speed limit. But if you are trying to save that much, drive like a grandma and you'll definitely save gas.
03-30-2011, 09:08 AM
#5
Bryan
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I get 28-29 in the city and 36+ on the highway, I have over 102,000 miles all I did was install a CAI and TSUDO cat-back Exhaust, And changed spark plugs to E3. Total price spent on all was about 425.00 I do use premium fuel, and i tend sometimes to play around witht the auto stick. I am no granny driver.
03-30-2011, 09:13 AM
#6
mrgold35
The major factors that affect my MPGs are:
- How I drive, I drive more aggressive compared to my wife. I'm more of a fast lane kinda guy while the wife is fine with middle or far right lane. She would average at least 2 mpg extra combined with her driving compared to me (25-26 combined for me, 27-28 combined for her at 60-70% hwy).
- How far I drive, the TSX get excellent MPGs on the hwy. The best mileage I've got was cruise control set to 60 mpgs for about 100 miles and I got 38 mpg. I usually get around 31-33 on the hwy with cruise control set to 80 mph. I think the tall gearing of the 5AT helps with hwy mpgs. The TSX mpgs suffer a lot with short trips, low speeds, cold engine, and stop/go traffic.
- I don’t know if this helps with mpgs; but, I use a K/N drop in filter and Mobil 1 oil. I also perform all scheduled maintenance according to the M.I.D.; keep my tire pressure to recommended levels; maintain wheel alignment; lifetime balance on tires; have all season tires with long tread life (less rolling resistance compared to high performance tires with short tread life); change the transmission oil every 30,000 miles; pressure wash the engine when dirty; and keep the car washed weekly and waxed once or twice a year.
- How I drive, I drive more aggressive compared to my wife. I'm more of a fast lane kinda guy while the wife is fine with middle or far right lane. She would average at least 2 mpg extra combined with her driving compared to me (25-26 combined for me, 27-28 combined for her at 60-70% hwy).
- How far I drive, the TSX get excellent MPGs on the hwy. The best mileage I've got was cruise control set to 60 mpgs for about 100 miles and I got 38 mpg. I usually get around 31-33 on the hwy with cruise control set to 80 mph. I think the tall gearing of the 5AT helps with hwy mpgs. The TSX mpgs suffer a lot with short trips, low speeds, cold engine, and stop/go traffic.
- I don’t know if this helps with mpgs; but, I use a K/N drop in filter and Mobil 1 oil. I also perform all scheduled maintenance according to the M.I.D.; keep my tire pressure to recommended levels; maintain wheel alignment; lifetime balance on tires; have all season tires with long tread life (less rolling resistance compared to high performance tires with short tread life); change the transmission oil every 30,000 miles; pressure wash the engine when dirty; and keep the car washed weekly and waxed once or twice a year.
03-30-2011, 03:46 PM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I get 28-29 in the city and 36+ on the highway, I have over 102,000 miles all I did was install a CAI and TSUDO cat-back Exhaust, And changed spark plugs to E3. Total price spent on all was about 425.00 I do use premium fuel, and i tend sometimes to play around witht the auto stick. I am no granny driver.
The major factors that affect my MPGs are:
- How I drive, I drive more aggressive compared to my wife. I'm more of a fast lane kinda guy while the wife is fine with middle or far right lane. She would average at least 2 mpg extra combined with her driving compared to me (25-26 combined for me, 27-28 combined for her at 60-70% hwy).
- How far I drive, the TSX get excellent MPGs on the hwy. The best mileage I've got was cruise control set to 60 mpgs for about 100 miles and I got 38 mpg. I usually get around 31-33 on the hwy with cruise control set to 80 mph. I think the tall gearing of the 5AT helps with hwy mpgs. The TSX mpgs suffer a lot with short trips, low speeds, cold engine, and stop/go traffic.
- I don’t know if this helps with mpgs; but, I use a K/N drop in filter and Mobil 1 oil. I also perform all scheduled maintenance according to the M.I.D.; keep my tire pressure to recommended levels; maintain wheel alignment; lifetime balance on tires; have all season tires with long tread life (less rolling resistance compared to high performance tires with short tread life); change the transmission oil every 30,000 miles; pressure wash the engine when dirty; and keep the car washed weekly and waxed once or twice a year.
- How I drive, I drive more aggressive compared to my wife. I'm more of a fast lane kinda guy while the wife is fine with middle or far right lane. She would average at least 2 mpg extra combined with her driving compared to me (25-26 combined for me, 27-28 combined for her at 60-70% hwy).
- How far I drive, the TSX get excellent MPGs on the hwy. The best mileage I've got was cruise control set to 60 mpgs for about 100 miles and I got 38 mpg. I usually get around 31-33 on the hwy with cruise control set to 80 mph. I think the tall gearing of the 5AT helps with hwy mpgs. The TSX mpgs suffer a lot with short trips, low speeds, cold engine, and stop/go traffic.
- I don’t know if this helps with mpgs; but, I use a K/N drop in filter and Mobil 1 oil. I also perform all scheduled maintenance according to the M.I.D.; keep my tire pressure to recommended levels; maintain wheel alignment; lifetime balance on tires; have all season tires with long tread life (less rolling resistance compared to high performance tires with short tread life); change the transmission oil every 30,000 miles; pressure wash the engine when dirty; and keep the car washed weekly and waxed once or twice a year.
-Cruise control, varying from 60-80, depending on traffic. I've read somewhere that cruise control doesn't help, but I'm in Orange County, which is mostly flat ground
-Accelerate slowly from stops, and avoid routes with lots of stops/traffic lights
-Minimal braking, safely of course, to conserve inertia and stay in higher gears
-Coast towards a red light instead of gassin towards it
-Refuel when tank is almost empty (i usually fill around 14-15 gallons)
I was more concerned with what I can add on to mechanically add mpg. I was considering the k&n filter, since you and others have said that this would definitely help
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03-30-2011, 04:52 PM
#8
mrgold35
Type of tires and tire pressure will save you more fuel compared to headers or exhaust. I would look at synthetic motor oil, all season tires, fresh transmission oil and staying in the slow lane first before intake, headers and exhaust.
03-31-2011, 01:56 PM
#10
Moderator
I get 28-29 in the city and 36+ on the highway, I have over 102,000 miles all I did was install a CAI and TSUDO cat-back Exhaust, And changed spark plugs to E3. Total price spent on all was about 425.00 I do use premium fuel, and i tend sometimes to play around witht the auto stick. I am no granny driver.
04-01-2011, 02:35 PM
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
are there any disadvantages to synthetic oil besides the price? and it should be changed every 5k miles? it sounds too good
04-01-2011, 02:53 PM
#12
El Cunado
04-01-2011, 03:34 PM
#13
mrgold35
I purchase the oil from Wal-Mart for about $22-$25 and take it to the dealership. The cost is mostly labor and they vac/wash the car afterwards for about $30 total (still cheaper than some of those lube places).
I mainly switch to Mobil 1 because I'm planning on keeping my TSX to around 150,000 to 175,000 miles and wanted extra protection. I have no problems going 5,000 miles between oil changes and I don't use any oil between changes with Mobil 1. I've once was over by about 700 miles for an oil change because I was on vacation. I didn't worry because I knew Mobil 1 is good for the extra mileage between changes.
04-02-2011, 06:30 PM
#14
Make a hole, coming thru!
i want that high city mpg! i have an auto, and the cai is really makin me wonder if it'll increase mpg. from what I've read, it'll increase mpg in the high rpms (?), but will force the engine to work harder at the lower rpms, using more fuel.
I think I got the driving habits down. I've only been driving for 2 years, but driving efficiently has always been at the forefront of my head. What I do so far:
-Cruise control, varying from 60-80, depending on traffic. I've read somewhere that cruise control doesn't help, but I'm in Orange County, which is mostly flat ground
-Accelerate slowly from stops, and avoid routes with lots of stops/traffic lights
-Minimal braking, safely of course, to conserve inertia and stay in higher gears
-Coast towards a red light instead of gassin towards it
-Refuel when tank is almost empty (i usually fill around 14-15 gallons)
I was more concerned with what I can add on to mechanically add mpg. I was considering the k&n filter, since you and others have said that this would definitely help
I think I got the driving habits down. I've only been driving for 2 years, but driving efficiently has always been at the forefront of my head. What I do so far:
-Cruise control, varying from 60-80, depending on traffic. I've read somewhere that cruise control doesn't help, but I'm in Orange County, which is mostly flat ground
-Accelerate slowly from stops, and avoid routes with lots of stops/traffic lights
-Minimal braking, safely of course, to conserve inertia and stay in higher gears
-Coast towards a red light instead of gassin towards it
-Refuel when tank is almost empty (i usually fill around 14-15 gallons)
I was more concerned with what I can add on to mechanically add mpg. I was considering the k&n filter, since you and others have said that this would definitely help
You haven't been driving long. Okay, stop, don't grab keyboard and assume that you're being condescended to, it's not a put down, you just haven't had as much experience as some of us old farts. You have much to learn yet, though some of the techniques you're mentioning will help. I'm probably twice your age, and still learning more. Driving is lifelong continuing education IMHO, welcome to the treadmill.
I wouldn't run the gas tank down to the "E" light. The 17.1 gal tank full of gas weighs 103 lbs or so, putting off that fill up when you're at 1/2 is only saving 50 lbs. Hell, my groceries weigh more. Besides, the reserve fuel tank (just a sump at the bottom I presume) holds 17 lbs of fuel. Take the spare out (about 30 lbs) if you're that concerned.
Some add 1-2 psi to your recommended tire pressures, lessening rolling resistance from your tires, BUT (big but) you also can reduce your "contact patch," which will diminish traction and cornering adhesion. Oh, it also makes the ride a little harder. Everything you do will be a tradeoff, not just "performance car fun vs. miserly gas use to maximize MPG."
Following the logic that improving your driving skills and techniques can help maximize your fuel conservation,... take an advanced driving course so you can sharpen your skills. Much cheaper than some performance upgrades. Tactics like looking ahead 10 seconds, thereby preventing some speed changes as a result of traffic, helps my mileage immensely. Coasting down to a red light is okay, "chauffeur braking" is my favorite, this is gradual braking so that if the light changes, you can simply add a little acceleration and you haven't disposed of a lot of enertia.
You should also create an account at MYFUELECONOMY.GOV, and start tracking your mileage. You can input online, or upload Excel files based on their template. You can start to see if things that you do are impacting mileage. Be ready though, it can vary a lot despite your best efforts.
Hope some of this help. Try not to take this personally, I've done a lot of this myself, gotten my mileage up to 29 mpg average over a tank of gas, but then a few incidents -- like driving my daughter to summer camp, through 50/50 highway and city streets -- can drop it down to 25 mpg average.
Above all, remember that you have a very slippery car, an uncanny 0.27 drag coefficient due to the "blah styling" that some reviewers eschewed, and smart engineering of under-body panels and lightweight materials. Oh, and you could be worse off. I just home from a track day, and i got about 14.1 MPG. But it was fun!
04-02-2011, 06:37 PM
#15
El Cunado
Lessening resistance in the intake tube or exhaust piping to provide more optimal airflow, would improve efficiency as long as the driver doesn't push the car harder due to having after-market parts. Lessening the weight of spinning parts would also increase efficiency so the car can "do more with less".
04-02-2011, 07:14 PM
#16
Moderator
We all know that lighter wheels, pullies and shorter intake tube have the potential to increase MPG, but why spend all those money trying to get better MPG when changing the way you drive requires no money on your end? All it requires is a little patient on the road.
04-03-2011, 05:32 AM
#17
Weirdest thread ever. Sorry, but performance upgrades like CAI, Hondata reflash, will not "improve mileage," they will improve performance. Period. Full stop. My
You haven't been driving long. Okay, stop, don't grab keyboard and assume that you're being condescended to, it's not a put down, you just haven't had as much experience as some of us old farts. You have much to learn yet, though some of the techniques you're mentioning will help. I'm probably twice your age, and still learning more. Driving is lifelong continuing education IMHO, welcome to the treadmill.
I wouldn't run the gas tank down to the "E" light. The 17.1 gal tank full of gas weighs 103 lbs or so, putting off that fill up when you're at 1/2 is only saving 50 lbs. Hell, my groceries weigh more. Besides, the reserve fuel tank (just a sump at the bottom I presume) holds 17 lbs of fuel. Take the spare out (about 30 lbs) if you're that concerned.
Some add 1-2 psi to your recommended tire pressures, lessening rolling resistance from your tires, BUT (big but) you also can reduce your "contact patch," which will diminish traction and cornering adhesion. Oh, it also makes the ride a little harder. Everything you do will be a tradeoff, not just "performance car fun vs. miserly gas use to maximize MPG."
Following the logic that improving your driving skills and techniques can help maximize your fuel conservation,... take an advanced driving course so you can sharpen your skills. Much cheaper than some performance upgrades. Tactics like looking ahead 10 seconds, thereby preventing some speed changes as a result of traffic, helps my mileage immensely. Coasting down to a red light is okay, "chauffeur braking" is my favorite, this is gradual braking so that if the light changes, you can simply add a little acceleration and you haven't disposed of a lot of enertia.
You should also create an account at MYFUELECONOMY.GOV, and start tracking your mileage. You can input online, or upload Excel files based on their template. You can start to see if things that you do are impacting mileage. Be ready though, it can vary a lot despite your best efforts.
Hope some of this help. Try not to take this personally, I've done a lot of this myself, gotten my mileage up to 29 mpg average over a tank of gas, but then a few incidents -- like driving my daughter to summer camp, through 50/50 highway and city streets -- can drop it down to 25 mpg average.
Above all, remember that you have a very slippery car, an uncanny 0.27 drag coefficient due to the "blah styling" that some reviewers eschewed, and smart engineering of under-body panels and lightweight materials. Oh, and you could be worse off. I just home from a track day, and i got about 14.1 MPG. But it was fun!
You haven't been driving long. Okay, stop, don't grab keyboard and assume that you're being condescended to, it's not a put down, you just haven't had as much experience as some of us old farts. You have much to learn yet, though some of the techniques you're mentioning will help. I'm probably twice your age, and still learning more. Driving is lifelong continuing education IMHO, welcome to the treadmill.
I wouldn't run the gas tank down to the "E" light. The 17.1 gal tank full of gas weighs 103 lbs or so, putting off that fill up when you're at 1/2 is only saving 50 lbs. Hell, my groceries weigh more. Besides, the reserve fuel tank (just a sump at the bottom I presume) holds 17 lbs of fuel. Take the spare out (about 30 lbs) if you're that concerned.
Some add 1-2 psi to your recommended tire pressures, lessening rolling resistance from your tires, BUT (big but) you also can reduce your "contact patch," which will diminish traction and cornering adhesion. Oh, it also makes the ride a little harder. Everything you do will be a tradeoff, not just "performance car fun vs. miserly gas use to maximize MPG."
Following the logic that improving your driving skills and techniques can help maximize your fuel conservation,... take an advanced driving course so you can sharpen your skills. Much cheaper than some performance upgrades. Tactics like looking ahead 10 seconds, thereby preventing some speed changes as a result of traffic, helps my mileage immensely. Coasting down to a red light is okay, "chauffeur braking" is my favorite, this is gradual braking so that if the light changes, you can simply add a little acceleration and you haven't disposed of a lot of enertia.
You should also create an account at MYFUELECONOMY.GOV, and start tracking your mileage. You can input online, or upload Excel files based on their template. You can start to see if things that you do are impacting mileage. Be ready though, it can vary a lot despite your best efforts.
Hope some of this help. Try not to take this personally, I've done a lot of this myself, gotten my mileage up to 29 mpg average over a tank of gas, but then a few incidents -- like driving my daughter to summer camp, through 50/50 highway and city streets -- can drop it down to 25 mpg average.
Above all, remember that you have a very slippery car, an uncanny 0.27 drag coefficient due to the "blah styling" that some reviewers eschewed, and smart engineering of under-body panels and lightweight materials. Oh, and you could be worse off. I just home from a track day, and i got about 14.1 MPG. But it was fun!
04-03-2011, 07:58 AM
#18
Certain "performance" modifications can absolutely increase fuel efficiency. A lower car has less drag. An engine doesn't need to work as car to get air through a SRI as it does through the OEM system with resonators, etc. Nor does it have to do as much work to push exhaust gas out through headers, a more free-flowing cat or larger diameter exhaust system. The so-called "breather" mods increase power by making the engine more efficient. In most cases, they trade off a bit of comfort/quiet in exchange for just a little power. The fuel economy is rarely realized, since the enjoyment of the extra top end gains and engine sound when revved up leads to more of that, negating the gain several times over.
Have you gone on any hypermiling forums? You can find tons of tweaks and even ways to risk your personal safely (and perhaps that of others) for very small fractional MPG increases.
You probably can't "buy" fuel economy and have it ever pay back. The driver makes the biggest difference of all. Sure, don't carry around more crap in the trunk than you need to, but also keep up with maintenance. A clean air filter, regular oil changes and proper tire inflation are at or near the top of the list.
The actual route you take to your destination might have a more fuel-efficient alternative.
In my experience, I got the biggest increase in economy just by changing my routine. By going to the gym before work rather than after, and save over 15 minutes in commuting time each way due to traffic conditions, and the drive is much more efficient (less braking, stopping and accelerating) not to mention easier on the car and the driver.
Besides tracking your mileage online, you might get more useful feedback from a GPS. I have the Garmin Nuvi 1300 with the eco-route feature. This does a few things - one it can help you find the routes to your destination that use the least amount of fuel. It's helped me find some good ones that I've overlooked. It also has a screen that gives you instant feedback about your driving. It has a green/yellow/red leaf icon and a number that represents an efficiency score. It will peak around 50mph, where cars are typically most efficient. You can see the score drop as you go faster, or slower. It will even rate you on factors like braking and acceleration, and plot a trend of your economy as your driving. You can also record gallons of gas, mileage driven and price paid for fuel, which shows you the (sometimes disheartening) cost of your last trip!
Have you gone on any hypermiling forums? You can find tons of tweaks and even ways to risk your personal safely (and perhaps that of others) for very small fractional MPG increases.
You probably can't "buy" fuel economy and have it ever pay back. The driver makes the biggest difference of all. Sure, don't carry around more crap in the trunk than you need to, but also keep up with maintenance. A clean air filter, regular oil changes and proper tire inflation are at or near the top of the list.
The actual route you take to your destination might have a more fuel-efficient alternative.
In my experience, I got the biggest increase in economy just by changing my routine. By going to the gym before work rather than after, and save over 15 minutes in commuting time each way due to traffic conditions, and the drive is much more efficient (less braking, stopping and accelerating) not to mention easier on the car and the driver.
Besides tracking your mileage online, you might get more useful feedback from a GPS. I have the Garmin Nuvi 1300 with the eco-route feature. This does a few things - one it can help you find the routes to your destination that use the least amount of fuel. It's helped me find some good ones that I've overlooked. It also has a screen that gives you instant feedback about your driving. It has a green/yellow/red leaf icon and a number that represents an efficiency score. It will peak around 50mph, where cars are typically most efficient. You can see the score drop as you go faster, or slower. It will even rate you on factors like braking and acceleration, and plot a trend of your economy as your driving. You can also record gallons of gas, mileage driven and price paid for fuel, which shows you the (sometimes disheartening) cost of your last trip!
04-03-2011, 05:14 PM
#19
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I knew there would be posts like these =[. Yes, I do know that this is a weird topic to ask in a performance mods thread, and yes, I do know that higher mpg is highly dependent on the driver, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to mod some things on my TSX to make it more efficient, so it would still get a good mileage even w/e my buddies or my family need to drive it.
At first, I looked on these forums to look for ways to improve performance (and a nice sound, which was how I stumbled upon the CAI), but seeing some threads saying that certain mods will hurt/improve MPG, I now want to know which ones will improve efficiency.
I'm still a youngling, and I'm still learning a lot about driving efficiently w/o losing time and missing green lights. I do calculate my routes also, and probably the most wasteful route are my trips to the gym, which only take 5 min by wheels. I would rather run to the gym for my cardio workout, unless it's late at night.
If there are certain mods that will increase my TSX's efficiency by a few mpg, then I'll gladly pay the couple hundred dollars to do it. According to the above posts, some people say these mods only improve performance, while others say they will improve fuel efficiency along with performance. Which of these mods will surely increase my fuel efficiency is what I'm hoping to learn by posting this thread. So far, the air filter is the first thing on my list still
At first, I looked on these forums to look for ways to improve performance (and a nice sound, which was how I stumbled upon the CAI), but seeing some threads saying that certain mods will hurt/improve MPG, I now want to know which ones will improve efficiency.
I'm still a youngling, and I'm still learning a lot about driving efficiently w/o losing time and missing green lights. I do calculate my routes also, and probably the most wasteful route are my trips to the gym, which only take 5 min by wheels. I would rather run to the gym for my cardio workout, unless it's late at night.
If there are certain mods that will increase my TSX's efficiency by a few mpg, then I'll gladly pay the couple hundred dollars to do it. According to the above posts, some people say these mods only improve performance, while others say they will improve fuel efficiency along with performance. Which of these mods will surely increase my fuel efficiency is what I'm hoping to learn by posting this thread. So far, the air filter is the first thing on my list still
04-04-2011, 12:29 AM
#20
Moderator
I knew there would be posts like these =[. Yes, I do know that this is a weird topic to ask in a performance mods thread, and yes, I do know that higher mpg is highly dependent on the driver, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to mod some things on my TSX to make it more efficient, so it would still get a good mileage even w/e my buddies or my family need to drive it.
At first, I looked on these forums to look for ways to improve performance (and a nice sound, which was how I stumbled upon the CAI), but seeing some threads saying that certain mods will hurt/improve MPG, I now want to know which ones will improve efficiency.
I'm still a youngling, and I'm still learning a lot about driving efficiently w/o losing time and missing green lights. I do calculate my routes also, and probably the most wasteful route are my trips to the gym, which only take 5 min by wheels. I would rather run to the gym for my cardio workout, unless it's late at night.
If there are certain mods that will increase my TSX's efficiency by a few mpg, then I'll gladly pay the couple hundred dollars to do it. According to the above posts, some people say these mods only improve performance, while others say they will improve fuel efficiency along with performance. Which of these mods will surely increase my fuel efficiency is what I'm hoping to learn by posting this thread. So far, the air filter is the first thing on my list still
At first, I looked on these forums to look for ways to improve performance (and a nice sound, which was how I stumbled upon the CAI), but seeing some threads saying that certain mods will hurt/improve MPG, I now want to know which ones will improve efficiency.
I'm still a youngling, and I'm still learning a lot about driving efficiently w/o losing time and missing green lights. I do calculate my routes also, and probably the most wasteful route are my trips to the gym, which only take 5 min by wheels. I would rather run to the gym for my cardio workout, unless it's late at night.
If there are certain mods that will increase my TSX's efficiency by a few mpg, then I'll gladly pay the couple hundred dollars to do it. According to the above posts, some people say these mods only improve performance, while others say they will improve fuel efficiency along with performance. Which of these mods will surely increase my fuel efficiency is what I'm hoping to learn by posting this thread. So far, the air filter is the first thing on my list still
04-04-2011, 09:55 AM
#21
Make a hole, coming thru!
... There's no advantage to using hot air from the engine bay, so, while using cooler air can add power, it's not a direct relationship with less fuel efficiency. You don't have to use the extra available power.
Lessening resistance in the intake tube or exhaust piping to provide more optimal airflow, would improve efficiency as long as the driver doesn't push the car harder due to having after-market parts. Lessening the weight of spinning parts would also increase efficiency so the car can "do more with less".
Lessening resistance in the intake tube or exhaust piping to provide more optimal airflow, would improve efficiency as long as the driver doesn't push the car harder due to having after-market parts. Lessening the weight of spinning parts would also increase efficiency so the car can "do more with less".
Oh, I had forgotten that Consumer Reports did some mileage tests a few years back, and I believe they found that 55 mph was an average "sweet spot" for optimum MPG. I thought there was a thread here where we discussed the TSX, and the sweet spot was ... 60 mph? I was doing 60 during the commute for a few weeks, my average commute mileage improved, but ... my stress level dealing with all the f***tards on I-40 made a net lose practice.
By, for completely opposed reasons (performance) I've been scouring the Interweb for "frontal area" data on the TSX. Best I've found is a 23.5' estimate ... that, combined with a surprisingly low 0.27 drag coefficient (Cd), indicates the car is slippery at speed. This certainly contributes to higher mileage.
So if you want to maximize mileage, do the speed limit or as close to 60 without going 6 over the posted limit. (Disclaimer: two-lane undivided roads can be killers, so practice SAFE DRIVING on such roads while trying maximize fuel conservation.)
Good post, but..... the first line is the clincher here. Like probably most who drive this car, the available gas mileage from the TSX is a big reason why I drive one. The irony in this is (relative to the thread) that allows me to NOT concern myself too much with allot of the things suggested here (in the thread) to get/achieve/maintain decent mileage (worry about how much gas is in the tank because of the weight? add air to the tires for mileage purposes? I think not...). ...
X 10. In all the discussion of squeezing a bit more juice out of her, we overlook that the TSX is ALREADY a good mileage car compared with others in its class, so one need not fret too much about MPG. I track mine more out of pride and curiosity, and when I see a tank or two's average dip down to 25 mpg or so, I reflect on why. More street driving? More gusto? Usually I can pinpoint what I've been doing. Tracking fuel consumption (myfueleconomy.gov) is a great, easy way to do this. Well, we hate to disappoint here...!
You asked for help and opinions, we're giving you that. No guarantees that we'll corroborate your beliefs. ... Think how much more disappointed if we'd just said, "wrong section, post elsewhere," "Use search, we've already discussed this," or if you just didn't get answers at all. 
We're not paid here, you're getting charitable help. I'm on the precipice of getting the CT icebox CAI, as it lets you use stock or K&N perm filters in the filter box, so no need to pull apart the wheel well to clean the intake that hides down there in its burrow. For what you're looking for, it's a economical change that will help the car without too much fuss or babysitting.
04-04-2011, 10:54 AM
#22
El Cunado
Unless someone was proposing a short ram intake (SRI).... The stock intake connects from the filter box to a "resonator" in the front left bumper, so no hot engine air from what I can see. (I was looking down at my resonator from the engine bay this weekend thinking, "Hmmmm, I think ... your days are numbered.") The Icebox or Typhoon would take in the same temp air as the stock unit, I think.
It's obvious we have very different goals when it comes to modifications. Some simply want to add sound and believe doing "something" will always yield good results without taking into consideration all the other factors or how the result is being measure. After all, when the sound is there, mission accomplished. Right?
Is cold air important? How does the engine and ECU react to cold and hot temperature by using the ECT (engine coolant temp), IAT (intake air temp), and Knock sensors?
Once you understand how these sensors work and how they will affect the engine timing advance and retard base on the temperature, you would want the coldest air possible. That is if you care about performance, not just sound. If sound is all you care about, no need to seek more info or results below.
Air temp under the hood:
When the car is moving forward, air is flowing through the radiator fins to cool the radiator. The temp after passing through the radiator is not the outside ambient temp. When the coolant temp has increased to a point, the coolant fan will turn on and pull hot air toward the engine bay and heat soak everything under the hood.
The IAT sensor right before the throttle body will pick up the temperature change and signal the ECU to retard ignition timing accordingly.
The hot air and fuel mixture (depending on the fuel quality) can trigger the knock sensor and further retards the ignition timing to save the engine but at the cost of reduced performance.
CAI location:
CAI installation moves the filter downward past the engine away from the underhood temp. However, there's still a slight opening below where potential hot air can pass through but can easily be sealed off to total isolate it from the underhood temp. You can further increase the ambient air temp input by slotting the front vent cover.
CAI disadvantage:
You simply can't get something for nothing. CAI usually costs more $ and it can be a potential problem if driving through deep water puddles, as it can hydrolock the engine. Some CAIs allow the user to switch to SRI configuration for this very reason, not because it performs better.
CAI test result vs stock intake: (taken from a previous post) Note how the air temp increases when engine speed increases to a higher rpm for the stock intake. This is before the coolant fan turning on.
--------
Here is a review and some pics of the K&N Typhoon intake and some preliminary test results. The results were taken with an OBD2 scanner to note the difference of outside temperature, air intake temperature during idle, cruise and WOT. I started the test when coolant temp has reached to operation temp of 185F to 187F. Both before and after tests were done from a cold engine start to eliminate heat soak from a long running or idling engine. However, please keep in mind that the two tests were done on a different day with different outside temp. This test result is only meant to be a comparison of outside and intake temp.
Before K&N installation:
Engine coolant temp = 185F to 187F
Outside temp = 48F
Intake temp @ idle = 68F
Intake temp @ cruise speed of 65 MPH, 3500 RPM = 64F
Intake temp @ WOT from 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM in 3rd gear = 66F
After K&N installation:
Engine coolant temp = 185F to 187F
Outside temp = 39F
Intake temp @ idle = 46F
Intake temp @ cruise speed of 65 MPH, 3500 RPM = 43F
Intake temp @ WOT from 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM in 3rd gear = 43F
----------
The power of cold air vs underdrive pulleys:
Test results on how the TSX engine react to temperature change.
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/power-cold-air-666809/
Is cold air important? How does the engine and ECU react to cold and hot temperature by using the ECT (engine coolant temp), IAT (intake air temp), and Knock sensors?
Once you understand how these sensors work and how they will affect the engine timing advance and retard base on the temperature, you would want the coldest air possible. That is if you care about performance, not just sound. If sound is all you care about, no need to seek more info or results below.
Air temp under the hood:
When the car is moving forward, air is flowing through the radiator fins to cool the radiator. The temp after passing through the radiator is not the outside ambient temp. When the coolant temp has increased to a point, the coolant fan will turn on and pull hot air toward the engine bay and heat soak everything under the hood.
The IAT sensor right before the throttle body will pick up the temperature change and signal the ECU to retard ignition timing accordingly.
The hot air and fuel mixture (depending on the fuel quality) can trigger the knock sensor and further retards the ignition timing to save the engine but at the cost of reduced performance.
CAI location:
CAI installation moves the filter downward past the engine away from the underhood temp. However, there's still a slight opening below where potential hot air can pass through but can easily be sealed off to total isolate it from the underhood temp. You can further increase the ambient air temp input by slotting the front vent cover.
CAI disadvantage:
You simply can't get something for nothing. CAI usually costs more $ and it can be a potential problem if driving through deep water puddles, as it can hydrolock the engine. Some CAIs allow the user to switch to SRI configuration for this very reason, not because it performs better.
CAI test result vs stock intake: (taken from a previous post) Note how the air temp increases when engine speed increases to a higher rpm for the stock intake. This is before the coolant fan turning on.
--------
Here is a review and some pics of the K&N Typhoon intake and some preliminary test results. The results were taken with an OBD2 scanner to note the difference of outside temperature, air intake temperature during idle, cruise and WOT. I started the test when coolant temp has reached to operation temp of 185F to 187F. Both before and after tests were done from a cold engine start to eliminate heat soak from a long running or idling engine. However, please keep in mind that the two tests were done on a different day with different outside temp. This test result is only meant to be a comparison of outside and intake temp.
Before K&N installation:
Engine coolant temp = 185F to 187F
Outside temp = 48F
Intake temp @ idle = 68F
Intake temp @ cruise speed of 65 MPH, 3500 RPM = 64F
Intake temp @ WOT from 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM in 3rd gear = 66F
After K&N installation:
Engine coolant temp = 185F to 187F
Outside temp = 39F
Intake temp @ idle = 46F
Intake temp @ cruise speed of 65 MPH, 3500 RPM = 43F
Intake temp @ WOT from 2500 RPM to 6500 RPM in 3rd gear = 43F
----------
The power of cold air vs underdrive pulleys:
Test results on how the TSX engine react to temperature change.
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/power-cold-air-666809/
04-05-2011, 11:55 AM
#23
Make a hole, coming thru!
Ah, yes, I always pay more attention to JTso's posts. I think it was him who posted, "Folks, it's all about the suspension performance, the 'drop' is just a bonus dividend," which convinced me to grab the A-spec kit (and a good decision that was).
I didn't know that about the stock breather, but then I've not taken mine apart. Pushes me even close to buying an Icebox, as my engine was probably running a little hot with all the time it was spending at 6000 RPM this weekend.
I didn't know that about the stock breather, but then I've not taken mine apart. Pushes me even close to buying an Icebox, as my engine was probably running a little hot with all the time it was spending at 6000 RPM this weekend.
04-06-2011, 10:08 PM
#24
Intermediate
Thread Starter
you guys are smart. I guess I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for all the replies despite my noobness!
I'd still want to mod my car for the performance, and the possible engine efficiency though. I'm stubborn
Since cold air intake supposedly loses low end torque, would that actually harm city MPG?
I'd still want to mod my car for the performance, and the possible engine efficiency though. I'm stubborn
Since cold air intake supposedly loses low end torque, would that actually harm city MPG?
04-07-2011, 12:40 PM
#26
Intermediate
Thread Starter
saw some other threads discussing this
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/injen-intake-low-end-power-loss-654016/
http://www..com/forums/1st-gen-engin...-end-loss.html
I just asked my friend and he said since theres more airflow through a cai, ecu will inject more fuel and end up reducing fuel efficiency?
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/injen-intake-low-end-power-loss-654016/
http://www..com/forums/1st-gen-engin...-end-loss.html
I just asked my friend and he said since theres more airflow through a cai, ecu will inject more fuel and end up reducing fuel efficiency?
04-13-2011, 11:56 AM
#27
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im in the same boat with you man. i drive 40,000 miles a year. ive been researching the mpg thing and my car came with 225/45/17 high performance summer tires, so im switching to 215/50/17 (oem tire size) all seasons. im getting coilovers (for fun not mpg's) that will lower the car a little (optimum height for mpg that ive read is like 5.7 to 6.2 inches off the ground). and im getting ur pulleys. from what ive read there is a possibility that you will gain slight mpg's in city driving due to the lighter unsprung mass from the pulleys, but if your foot starts getting heavy then you might lose some. hope this helps
04-24-2011, 04:58 PM
#28
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I've been browsing a lot on lots of topics. I find that using "site:tsx.acurazine.com topic" on google is a lot better than using the search button lol. So is it ok to assume that anything that will improve HP in the tsx is potentially improving efficiency of the engine, which yields better fuel economy if driving habits stay the same?
04-24-2011, 05:15 PM
#29
I've been browsing a lot on lots of topics. I find that using "site:tsx.acurazine.com topic" on google is a lot better than using the search button lol. So is it ok to assume that anything that will improve HP in the tsx is potentially improving efficiency of the engine, which yields better fuel economy if driving habits stay the same?
-are you putting in preminuim/91 octane WHICH IT WAS DESIGNED TO RUN ON (and mpg do suffer with lower octanes, on cars designed to run on higher octanes)
-tires properly inflated (maybe even a little over, don't want to go too much otherwise handleing/braking suffer severely, let alone wearing the inside of the tire out also
- any excess weight out of the car, such as the trunk being full of clothes or something along those lines
as far as aftermarket mods go, almost nothing will pay for itself back in the amount of gas you will so called save at the pump (including a CAI, cause if you never go into the higher rpms when accelerating, you will never need more air flow then the stock intake can provide easily)
personally the only thing that i might see being benificial for an increase in MPG, would be a reflash from HONDATA, with them putting in a specific tune for you design for gas mileage, by leaning the air fuel mixture out and advancing the timing as much as possible
04-24-2011, 09:05 PM
#30
1st Gear
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I can get 38 mpg on a flat road at 60 holding speed steady, but around town it's 27 mpg and on the freeway at 75 it's 33. Acceleration and wind resistance are the killers. It does not take much acceleration to lower fuel economy. Wind resistance increases proportional to the square of the speed, meaning it really builds up as you exceed 60 mph.
04-25-2011, 11:45 AM
#31
El Cunado
I made arguments saying that "freeing up resistance in the engine could increase fuel economy" but that's only true if the engine doesn't act to use that new potential for greater power. If the engine adapts to the new power potential, it won't increase it's fuel efficiency, only it's power output.
So, unless there's a way to turn cylinders off, there isn't much way to significantly increase fuel efficiency.
Minimizing weight, keeping the car properly maintained, and using efficient driving habits is the best way to maximize fuel efficiency.
So, unless there's a way to turn cylinders off, there isn't much way to significantly increase fuel efficiency.
Minimizing weight, keeping the car properly maintained, and using efficient driving habits is the best way to maximize fuel efficiency.
04-25-2011, 12:39 PM
#32
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if you want to get the best mpgs, do the following in this order:
1) make sure tires are properly inflated. if you will be in the market soon for new tires, try to get mpg friendly ones. tirerack.com is your friend. they usually give you mail in rebates when you buy through them and their prices cannot be beaten.
2) use a fuel system cleaner called chevron techron. the gold standard of fuel claners, it will cost you $10 at any auto parts place like advance auto parts, autozone, etc. buy the one that treats up to 20 gallons since the tsx has a tank of 17.1 gallons. drive your car until the low fuel light comes on, go to a gas station, dump it in your tank, fill up with premium (this is what honda engineers designed our car to run on) so it mixes the cleaner with the gas
3) replace your spark plugs if they havent been done yet. if they have been recently, dont worry about it.
4) reset your ecu by removing the negative terminal off your battery for a couple min then reattach it. your car down-tunes itself over time. by refreshing your ecu, you car will "learn" again your driving style so it can come up with the proper air/fuel ratio. so my advice is after you reset it do some easy grandma runs.
5) weight reduction in the right places will get you increased mpgs. the best areas are engine pulleys and lightweight rims, however these cost some bucks. you have to weigh for yourself the cost/benefit ratio. how long do you plan on keeping the car? how much more money do you want to put into it? it is true that mods like headers and high flow cats can help increase mpgs but to be honest people get those mods to increase performance and its hard to drive economically with those bad-boys on.
1) make sure tires are properly inflated. if you will be in the market soon for new tires, try to get mpg friendly ones. tirerack.com is your friend. they usually give you mail in rebates when you buy through them and their prices cannot be beaten.
2) use a fuel system cleaner called chevron techron. the gold standard of fuel claners, it will cost you $10 at any auto parts place like advance auto parts, autozone, etc. buy the one that treats up to 20 gallons since the tsx has a tank of 17.1 gallons. drive your car until the low fuel light comes on, go to a gas station, dump it in your tank, fill up with premium (this is what honda engineers designed our car to run on) so it mixes the cleaner with the gas
3) replace your spark plugs if they havent been done yet. if they have been recently, dont worry about it.
4) reset your ecu by removing the negative terminal off your battery for a couple min then reattach it. your car down-tunes itself over time. by refreshing your ecu, you car will "learn" again your driving style so it can come up with the proper air/fuel ratio. so my advice is after you reset it do some easy grandma runs.
5) weight reduction in the right places will get you increased mpgs. the best areas are engine pulleys and lightweight rims, however these cost some bucks. you have to weigh for yourself the cost/benefit ratio. how long do you plan on keeping the car? how much more money do you want to put into it? it is true that mods like headers and high flow cats can help increase mpgs but to be honest people get those mods to increase performance and its hard to drive economically with those bad-boys on.
04-25-2011, 12:42 PM
#33
if you want to get the best mpgs, do the following in this order:
1) make sure tires are properly inflated. if you will be in the market soon for new tires, try to get mpg friendly ones. tirerack.com is your friend. they usually give you mail in rebates when you buy through them and their prices cannot be beaten.
2) use a fuel system cleaner called chevron techron. the gold standard of fuel claners, it will cost you $10 at any auto parts place like advance auto parts, autozone, etc. buy the one that treats up to 20 gallons since the tsx has a tank of 17.1 gallons. drive your car until the low fuel light comes on, go to a gas station, dump it in your tank, fill up with premium (this is what honda engineers designed our car to run on) so it mixes the cleaner with the gas
3) replace your spark plugs if they havent been done yet. if they have been recently, dont worry about it.
4) reset your ecu by removing the negative terminal off your battery for a couple min then reattach it. your car down-tunes itself over time. by refreshing your ecu, you car will "learn" again your driving style so it can come up with the proper air/fuel ratio. so my advice is after you reset it do some easy grandma runs.
5) weight reduction in the right places will get you increased mpgs. the best areas are engine pulleys and lightweight rims, however these cost some bucks. you have to weigh for yourself the cost/benefit ratio. how long do you plan on keeping the car? how much more money do you want to put into it? it is true that mods like headers and high flow cats can help increase mpgs but to be honest people get those mods to increase performance and its hard to drive economically with those bad-boys on.
1) make sure tires are properly inflated. if you will be in the market soon for new tires, try to get mpg friendly ones. tirerack.com is your friend. they usually give you mail in rebates when you buy through them and their prices cannot be beaten.
2) use a fuel system cleaner called chevron techron. the gold standard of fuel claners, it will cost you $10 at any auto parts place like advance auto parts, autozone, etc. buy the one that treats up to 20 gallons since the tsx has a tank of 17.1 gallons. drive your car until the low fuel light comes on, go to a gas station, dump it in your tank, fill up with premium (this is what honda engineers designed our car to run on) so it mixes the cleaner with the gas
3) replace your spark plugs if they havent been done yet. if they have been recently, dont worry about it.
4) reset your ecu by removing the negative terminal off your battery for a couple min then reattach it. your car down-tunes itself over time. by refreshing your ecu, you car will "learn" again your driving style so it can come up with the proper air/fuel ratio. so my advice is after you reset it do some easy grandma runs.
5) weight reduction in the right places will get you increased mpgs. the best areas are engine pulleys and lightweight rims, however these cost some bucks. you have to weigh for yourself the cost/benefit ratio. how long do you plan on keeping the car? how much more money do you want to put into it? it is true that mods like headers and high flow cats can help increase mpgs but to be honest people get those mods to increase performance and its hard to drive economically with those bad-boys on.
)
04-25-2011, 12:49 PM
#34
El Cunado
04-25-2011, 01:19 PM
#35
I made arguments saying that "freeing up resistance in the engine could increase fuel economy" but that's only true if the engine doesn't act to use that new potential for greater power. If the engine adapts to the new power potential, it won't increase it's fuel efficiency, only it's power output.
So, unless there's a way to turn cylinders off, there isn't much way to significantly increase fuel efficiency.
Minimizing weight, keeping the car properly maintained, and using efficient driving habits is the best way to maximize fuel efficiency.
So, unless there's a way to turn cylinders off, there isn't much way to significantly increase fuel efficiency.
Minimizing weight, keeping the car properly maintained, and using efficient driving habits is the best way to maximize fuel efficiency.
04-25-2011, 01:22 PM
#36
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and only use a cleaner twice a year tops. i used it in spring and then again before winter hits. any more than that is overkill
Last edited by deadlyklappy12887; 04-25-2011 at 01:27 PM.
04-26-2011, 09:27 PM
#38
Instructor
and only use a cleaner twice a year tops. i used it in spring and then again before winter hits. any more than that is overkill[/quote]
What is your rationale for this, I use a bottle about every 3,000 miles
What is your rationale for this, I use a bottle about every 3,000 miles
06-09-2011, 11:39 PM
#39
Changing the gearing is probably the most significant hardware mod that can be done to increase MPG. I would like taller gearing on my 6mt, as this thing is really humming at 70mph.
My city numbers are barely worse than highway. The key is to know how the lights and traffic work, and spend as much time coasting as possible. At low speeds you can coast for very long stretches and only loose 1 or 2 mph.
Often I will accelerate and then coast all the way until the next slowdown or stoplight.
Price is the only disadvantage. You can go 10k+ miles on an oil change, depending on your driving conditions.
Yes. CAI will not improve your MPG. Why? The denser air feeds more oxygen into the engine, and the engine compensates by increasing the fuel rate. Essentially it is like pressing harder on the gas pedal, which is exactly the opposite thing you want to do to get better mileage.
All fuel economy forums talk about adding WAI (warm air intake). They do just the opposite of all the guys on here. It's a waste of time because you can just be gentler on the skinny pedal.
I'm emphasizing the correct comments Gweedo has posted.
No, it's not ok to assume that. I would suspect a super charger would lower mpg almost regardless of how you drive it. On the other hand, a turbo should theoretically increase mpg if you drive it properly. The reason is that a super charger is a parasitic load to the engine, whereas a turbo uses wasted heat energy from combustion to drive the pump.
Really? Your list of best things to improve MPG didn't seem impressive enough to get a world record.
My list:
1. Modify the nut behind the wheel (steering wheel that is)
2. Re-gear car for efficiency instead of performance. (Auto has taller gearing than manual, so it does better on the freeway)
3. Aerodynamic mods such as partial grill blocks, cam-baks, etc.
4. Over-inflate tires (I run 45 front 43 rear psi. Handles like a dream, but harsh over bumps and noisy on freeway)
5. Purchase a better MPG gauge such as the Ultra Gauge (Helped boost my driving habits by 1.5mpg)
6. Short trips and idling will really kill MPG in a hurry.
7. Remove excessive weight. I'll keep my spare tire since I tend to use one every other year.
8. Take corners faster. Remember that every time you touch the brakes, you are wasting gas.
9. Lower the car, which is essentially an aero mod.
10. Misc performance parts. You will never recover your $ from stuff like light weight under-drive pulley sets or lighter wheels, but they do improve mpg ever so slightly.
Often I will accelerate and then coast all the way until the next slowdown or stoplight.
All fuel economy forums talk about adding WAI (warm air intake). They do just the opposite of all the guys on here. It's a waste of time because you can just be gentler on the skinny pedal.
I agree that Hondata would not increase fuel efficiency, but disagree about a cold-air intake. There's no advantage to using hot air from the engine bay, so, while using cooler air can add power, it's not a direct relationship with less fuel efficiency. You don't have to use the extra available power.
My list:
1. Modify the nut behind the wheel (steering wheel that is)
2. Re-gear car for efficiency instead of performance. (Auto has taller gearing than manual, so it does better on the freeway)
3. Aerodynamic mods such as partial grill blocks, cam-baks, etc.
4. Over-inflate tires (I run 45 front 43 rear psi. Handles like a dream, but harsh over bumps and noisy on freeway)
5. Purchase a better MPG gauge such as the Ultra Gauge (Helped boost my driving habits by 1.5mpg)
6. Short trips and idling will really kill MPG in a hurry.
7. Remove excessive weight. I'll keep my spare tire since I tend to use one every other year.
8. Take corners faster. Remember that every time you touch the brakes, you are wasting gas.
9. Lower the car, which is essentially an aero mod.
10. Misc performance parts. You will never recover your $ from stuff like light weight under-drive pulley sets or lighter wheels, but they do improve mpg ever so slightly.
06-09-2011, 11:48 PM
#40
From a technical standpoint, 87 octane has ever so slightly more energy density than 91 octane. It is imperceptible as far as tracking mpgs are concerned though.
