bmerr98

Ahoy all! I'm picking up a 1996 2.5 TL with some issues to get ready for my daughter as she is about to begin her driving career. "Issues?" you say? Here goes...

Overall it seems to be in decent shape. Starts and seems to run smooth and the interior is in decent shape. Good rubber on it and it's dirt cheap - so cheap I can crush it for more than I'm giving for it if it ends up being more to fix than it's worth.

The down side is that it won't move. Can't even be pushed. Will not roll in any gear. Put it in hear and the motor drops down like it will when you put one in gear, but goes nowhere and will not roll freely even in neutral.

I've looked through the forums some and haven't seen anyone else with that happening, so I'm looking for ideas. I have a good garage and a decent set of tools, and I do enough wrenching to keep my own vehicles rolling, so I'm looking forward to this project, just hoping for a "peek over the hill" if you know what I mean.

Thanks in advance!

NBP04TL4ME

When was the last time it did move? Perhaps a or multiple frozen brakes? Have you had it up on a lift to see if the wheels spin? Just a thought as a diagnostic start.

bmerr98

Not sure when it ran last. The guy says it locked up while he was driving and had to be towed. Wrecked driver had to drag it on the flatbed with the winch. The front wheels wouldn't move. The rest of the car looks good so I don't mind putting some work and money into it. Just not sure where to start.

Pick it up tomorrow and will get a better perspective.

bmerr98

Well, I got it home without toil much trouble. Transmission dipstick is dry and the front calipers were both locked. I got them off and freed the wheels up some, but it still won't roll even in neutral. Could the internal be so jacked up that even neutral isn't free? At least now it will rock forward and back a little like it's in Park.

Hoping to get it into the garage and on the lift for better access. Is there anything other than Honda AT fluid i can use to see if it will move?

I figured on a transmission fluid and filter change anyway, but I don't want to waste high dollar Honda transmission fluid just to move it 15 feet and drain it again.

bmerr98

Pulled the differential fill and drain plugs today before the rain hit...it was full of water. Smelled like gear oil, but was just water. At least it wasn't rusty. Glad I got this thing cheap...

NBP04TL4ME

It will be interesting to see if you are able to get this running and on the road again.

adventurecrv

Quite exciting for you and your daughter. Hopefully she is interested in getting dirty!

I was going to suggest the differential, but you beat me to it!

Stopped while driving...not a good sign. Might be due for a tranny...

I assume the engine does run. Any codes coming up? (The D4 light will flash if there are any tranny codes...unless the bulb is burnt out which is common, but easy to replace)...

adventurecrv

No non-Honda fluid comes to mind and I only would recommend the Honda.

However, you can use DEXRON III (3) in a pinch. In other words, don't leave it in for too long.

I used to work for an Acura dealership years ago and I can honestly say that using the Honda ATF and power steering fluid is the only way to go.

bmerr98

D4 isn't flashing, but I'll check the bulb. The engine does run pretty smooth. Have to replace the valve cover gasket and things like that. Kinda leaky. I think I'll put some Dextron in there (and some gear oil in the diff) just to try and get it into my garage. I have a lift and it sure makes things easier on a lower back that isn't what it used to be...

Doc asked me, "When did you notice you had a weak back?" I replied, "Oh, about a week back." ;-)

bmerr98

Having worked at a dealership you may know...How much of a job is it to rebuild one of these transmissions? I looked up a rebuild kit on Rockauto.com and it doesn't look like there's all that much to it. Looks can be deceiving though.

Special tools etc? Seems like mainly just having everything you need first and keeping it all in order, like a lot of things. If I can learn something new and save some money at the same time, I'd call that a b-b-b-b-BONUS!

bmerr98

I just found an exploded view of the M1WA...yikes. That's a lot of stuff to be disassembled in order to get at the things that need replaced.

adventurecrv

The D4 light will come on when you put it in D4...

When I first worked at Acura late 80s the techs were doing the rebuilds. Loads of parts all over the shop in specific order. It was quite the job. They would take the transmission out, disassemble it, measure all the parts, I would then order what needed replacing, they would put it back together and back in the car. This very often turned into a week long affair.

By the time I left in the early 90s Acura was not having the techs rebuild the warranty transmissions anymore. All our techs would do is remove the old one and put in the new one.

Plus we had no way to bench test the repair before we put it back in.

I wouldn't say it is hard to rebuild one, but it certainly is an pain-in-the-a$$!

Special tools were also required.

I looked at the rebuild "kit" - okay gaskets and clutches. That's a start, but you won't know what is knackered until you get in there.

The Gen 1 trannys are really good, esp compared to the Gen 2 TLs...

Fingers crossed for you!

If you do need one I would recommend getting a rebuilt unit ready to go...

bmerr98

Got it in the garage and on the lift finally. I put a floor jack under one control arm and got one front tire off the ground, then pushed it in with my truck with an old tire and a dog blanket between to protect the paint. Probably won't find that method in any shop safety manual or anything, but it worked. Now if I can get a break from all of life's other little emergencies I can start pulling that transmission out.

I figure it probably is pretty well shot. When you roll one front wheel, the other turns in the opposite direction, but they will not both roll the same direction at once. I'm assuming an open differential here, I could be wrong on that.

Also, if anyone out there had an owner's manual, shop service manual, etc for this beast I'd love to get my hands on one. I've heard about the Helm manuals and will see about ordering at some point. Will try to post a pic or two as I go.

bmerr98

Any how to's on pulling this transmission on here? I found the filter/screen info, but I believe this thing's gonna have to come out. If there isn't I'll be sure to take lots of pics when I tear into it.

adventurecrv

ebay has a few options available. Some CD versions for the most part. I had a CD for the wife's motorcycle and it was quite good. About $30 give or take.

Sounds like you are making some progress. Great fun!

adventurecrv

I should have mentioned that the D4 light flashes when you turn the ignition on as it goes through a self-diagnostic.

adventurecrv

Correction to above. It comes on for a few seconds and then goes off...

bmerr98

Here she is! Took 3 or 4 days to get it from the driveway to here, but there's always something calling me away.

NBP04TL4ME

Nice setup in your garage.

Whitey_1997TL

I envy your set up. Here's a link to the manual hondatech.info: Honda service manuals

bmerr98

Thanks! I found this when I was house hunting a few years ago. I had been doing all my maintenance rolling around on a gravel driveway for 16 years and was happy just to get a concrete driveway, Then the real estate agent showed me the garage...The heavens opened up, an angelic host sounded put from above, I was bathed in beams of light from on high...

Well, it wasn't all THAT dramatic, but I do dig the lift :-)

bmerr98

Started in on the TL over the weekend. That's when I recalled the geographic history of the car...upstate New York, Louisiana, Ft. Campbell, KY. Oh, the rust!

Depending on what I find in the differential (I believe the transmission may be ok) I'll be doing a valve cover gasket, brake fluid flush, new calipers, rotors, pads up front, ball joints, stabilizer links, transmission filter/screen and some light body work. Other tasks as needed.

I pulled the transmission pan and filter, and was glad to find only the normal fine metal bits one would expect. On initial inspection of the car the engine RPMs dropped as they should when shifted into gear, which leads me to think things may be ok in the gear box. That differential though...it was full of water and nothing else, and the wheels won't roll in the same direction. I'm focusing my efforts there for now. Will post pics and updates.

bmerr98

Started tearing into it finally. The passenger side CV axle needs replaced. It came out easily. The driver's side is a different story. That thing is STUCK! Working on removing engine, transmission and differential to get at the differential unless someone had advice on an easier way. Thinking about coming out the bottom by removing the sub frame. Just gotta get everything unhooked up top. Probably need a radiator as well.

bmerr98

I didn't have any luck with the link.

bmerr98

I went on Rockauto.com and made a parts list of everything I think I'll need to get it road ready. Everything except the transmission fluid/filter and the differential anyway.

At this point I'm looking at over $600 in parts BEFORE I even know what the differential will need...with KBB private party value at $1650 in Good condition, I'm starting to think I might be too close to the break even line for this to be worth it. I mean, I got this thing very cheap, but for it to stay a good deal, I can't put much more than $1000 into it.

If I end up parting it out I'll let y'all know.

NBP04TL4ME

Link seems to work for me

File size is 55.6MB

bmerr98

Ok, so I'm told the transmission and differential are one unit, not separate components. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

This person also says he can ship one with a few more miles on it (142K - still not bad) for $325. That's considerably less than I feared, but does this sound like a reasonable price to you who may know better?

Input is appreciated! Thanks shall be given for your

bmerr98

Hmm...all I get is the little spinning thing saying connecting and a message at the bottom saying "waiting for hondatechinfo", then the connection gets reset. Argh.

main70072

Are you on our Facebook page? There are more active members, and you can access the manual there as well.

bmerr98

I'm one of the six people on the planet that is not on FaceBook, actually. Like anything, it has so many uses, but so many people use it for the worst things. Too much drama for me in general. However, I may get on there for better access to this forum and its' member's brains.

main70072

Haha, a couple people from this forum actually created a Facebook just for our car group. Let me know once you make one and I'll direct you to the page if you can't locate it.