TLSC

Test drove both for a day during the time my 4G SHAWD was in for service..
The new TLX (as others have mentioned) is very quiet, refined, and has a soft suspension, it was a surprise for a Honda product.

I assumed that the TLX SHAWD would be a natural choice for my next acura, but I did not feel the "excitement" like I do in the 4G. I think the reason was the suspension, I almost felt guilty pushing it. The main area I missed the SHAWD was launching, the FWD can smoke the 225 Potenzas from a stop way too easily. So my hope is 19s with 245 Michelin rubber will help the traction from a stop and add some "feel" to the road.

Pushing both through turns, I definitely felt a difference with the SHAWD, but not like the 4G SHAWD, the 4G suspension feels more responsive and tighter. I am sure the seats have something to do with it as well...

Let me know your thoughts especially if you test drove both the FWD and SHAWD, can anyone comment if the 19s with 245 help the FWD v6 driving characteristics?

Overall I think the TLX is a winner and it begs a type S version soon

JM2010 SH-AWD

^ You're right about the FWD smoking the tires easily. I twice did it in the loaner I was using for a day - once right in front of the police station!

Hoosier_TLX

I added the Michelin 245/19's for my "summer" tires and I can verify that the change made my car a different animal entirely. At almost every opportunity I'll try to take the winding, twisty roads and I keep increasing my speed to the point where I'm confident this is the best handling car I've owned. The tires don't make a sound and just add confidence. I haven't put the car on any type of a skidpad but my butt g-force meter lets me know that the car with the sh-awd and Michelin Pilot tires does a great job.

9SpeedTran

I second that, enthusiastically. I drove an i4 loaner and I thought it was fine at 40 mph or below but at higher speeds it didn't feel nearly as planted on curves. My wife drove a V6 FWD and hated it, she said it felt "wobbly". :-) The TLX SHAWD *really* shines at 80+mph, which is kind of a problem LOL.

TLSC

Did you have the standard 18s before the 19s? If so, can you comment how that change felt?

Please keep the comments coming, seems like most went for the SHAWD. I am looking to hear from the V6 FWD PAWS owners as well

Hoosier_TLX

I had the 18" Goodyear combo when I bought the car and I will be changing back to those for the winter months in the next few days. I didn't really notice any drawbacks to going with the 19" Michelins except the ride was a bit harder and the squealing when going around corners at speed was gone.

I can report back in a few days about the change back to OEM and I will be doing a lengthy roadtrip for Thanksgiving so I can get even more detailed after that. My gut feeling is that the Michelin tires do everything the Goodyears do but better and with no noticeable letdown. Fuel efficiency may be the only thing that would come into play, but after a few weeks to confirm, that may not be the case either.

Hope this helps.

youngTL

I'll echo what others have said about the tires being a MAJOR weak point for the TLX in terms of handling. Swapping them out is like night and day, more than any other car I've ever driven. I think Acura made a poor choice for the stock tires and it's colouring a lot of people's opinions in a negative way.

Our dealership had one with summer tires mounted for my 2nd test drive and it was a different beast entirely in all good ways (except that it firmed up the ride over frost heaves some).

In any event, I wanted to comment on the 18's vs 19's. For acceleration, you're better off with the 18's. For handling you're better off going slightly wider rather than going to 19's (although a 225 with stickier rubber does the trick much more noticeably). The only real advantage to the 19's is cosmetic.

youngTL

Your FE drop would be from going to 19's. Larger wheels always drop fuel economy and drop acceleration.

9SpeedTran

Nope, I had the 19" wheels and the Michelins put on before I would take the car. :-) When I had my TL Type S, it came with "touring" tires that slipped on wet and were mush in corners, and I had to change those tires out right away, so after reading the early reviews of the TLX I knew I had to do it at purchase time.

9SpeedTran

The standard tire size for the 19's is a 245/40, noticeably wider than the 18s. I wanted the extra width for additional stability in corners.

TLSC

Thank you for the comments! I see a FWD Advance w/19's and Michelin's in my future.

TLSC

Just to clarify, I dont test the car's acceleration at every stop but the FWD spins the the tires way to easy in normal, sport and def sport+ modes and that can eat up tires very quickly.

After test driving both AWD and FWD, I am leaning towards FWD. In my case the extra width of the 19s (225 vs 245) and the better tire (Michelin's) should help the acceleration traction, cornering and highway stability.

I was actually impressed with the PAWS. It felt more stable to me than the SHAWD on quick lane changes at highway speeds. However, taking turns at speed, holding off ramps, and launching the SHAWD is superior. I just dont do much of that to justify the extra cost, and lower gas mileage of the SHAWD.

mapleloaf

I think you will enjoy the car, especially as the FWD meets your needs and gives you more features with the Advance. I am very happy with my SH-AWD, but I live in a climate where we have snow and ice 5-6 months of the year.

9SpeedTran

That's a good point, I live in the Mid-Atlantic US where winter can be moderately crappy at times, and other times (within the same two week period LOL) like spring has arrived early. The SH-AWD is really handy in rain and snow.

It is important to note that it only applies as you accelerate, and it becomes much more noticeable as (1) you turn tighter and/or (2) you continue to accelerate. So for example, in a set of S curves, you would need to decelerate before each curve and accelerate through each curve, or at a minimum, keep a steady speed through the turns with your foot on the accelerator. Otherwise, the SH-AWD does not come into play.

George Knighton

I'll generally agree.

The 4G TL's SH-AWD unit and philosophy is very different. With the 4G, you can put a hell of a lot more power to the rear end.

The 5G TLX's SH-AWD unit is smaller and lighter, and it's not designed to take as much torque as your car's can take.

I used to own a 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD, and put over 100,000 miles on it. I felt it was the greatest car up to the point I got my current daily driver.

The couple of times that I've had a TLX in my hands, I just felt it was "fine" or "okay," and not worthy of the hyperbole I'd heap on my 4G TL 6-6.

9SpeedTran

I think there is some misunderstanding here. See the following: Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis - YouWheel.com - Car News and Review

Specifically, at the end of the article:

There is nothing I have seen anywhere to indicate that less torque gets pushed to the rear wheels.

youngTL

Holy shit that was a brilliant article! Very technical (which I love)!

Now, the question is if you're driving in snow for a long period of time, does the new mechanical version of SH-AWD start to heat up quite a bit? I know that Acura recommends changing the diff fluid more often if you're driving constantly on mountain roads. I wonder if the reason is more use of the SH-AWD unit heats up that fluid?

KeithL

To me the ride 4G AWD vs. TLX AWD is dramatic. Yes the 4G had a firmer suspension, but the TLX cheapened suspension and different tuning IMO makes the TLX more like a step down form the 4G. To me the TLX suspension is between the 4G TL and TSX. The gf had a 11 TSX and it rode very "light" and a bit jittery. The TLX rides a tad heavier than the TSX, but far lighter than a 4G. I would never dream of drving the TLX AWD as hard as my 4G, and honestly not even as hard as my 3G Type-S. The over simplified strut suspension moving away from DWB really hurts the planted flat ride IMO. Still a great car, but no where near as inspiring as the 4G.

George Knighton

Same here.

I don't want to appear to denigrate the TLX, but to me the car seems to be aimed at a different audience.

You can't argue with success, however, and they're certainly selling a hell of a lot more TLX's than they sold 4G TL's. :-)

George Knighton

Thanks very much for giving us that link. It was helpful. However, when it got down to the 2015 TLX's SH-AWD, I don't think it went into enough detail.

It gives us a hint by repeatedly referring to it as "an enhanced [sic] VTM-4" system."

If you believe for a certainty that in a corner the new SH-AWD will continue to deliver 70% in a corner, 100% of that 70% to a single wheel, and 90% when hard straight line accelerating, then I don't have the moxy to argue about it and I have to believe that you would not say that unless you knew it for certain.

Myself...I am not so sure because I'm operating on a vague recollection of an American Honda engineer's comments when two of them were in my house in the country.

I don't know why they did it, but they sent people into the field to interview owners of the Sport Hybrid.

I think I'm remembering his comments correctly but in truth, I could not swear to it and must yield to your certainty.

:-)

TLSC

This hit the nail on the head to what I was referring to in the OP, my 4G could be driven hard and want more

TLSC

Same here, just got the 5G so not bashing, its a just a different car and they are selling a ton of them. But I cant help to imagine.... 5G styling, with a 4G 6MT power plant in 3G Type-S trim

9SpeedTran

I am always open to evidence. Having watched how the TLX SH-AWD behaves, I have seen it throw massive torque to the outer rear wheel, but only in a relatively tight turn when really accelerating, the rest of the time it is pretty balanced and occasionally it throws the torque to the inner rear wheel first when you start into a gentle turn while moderately accelerating. At straight line acceleration, the most I have seen is probably 50% to the rear. The main point of my post was that the reason the unit is smaller and lighter is because it is (a) a different design and (b) hydraulic rather than electronic, and that that does not necessarily mean it is less capable.

As far as people's comments on the suspension goes, I would say the TLX is definitely tuned differently than my TL Type S. The latter was so stiff that it would really wear me out on urban roads (wish Americans would build roads like the Germans LOL). The TLX suspension is pretty stable in corners but it is possible to push it beyond its limits when rocketing through a curve that is not properly banked and especially if that curve is not entirely smooth--although that could also be some combination of suspension, traction control, etc. I have noticed a lateral shimmy in both my MDX and the TLX when you hit dips or potholes that wwas not there in the TL Type S at all, which is probably due to the absence of the DWB. By and large though, I feel the TLX is far more comfortable to drive especially on the highway and you really have to push it to an unwise degree to get it to misbehave.

George Knighton

Just a couple of questions.

I might have missed it, but have you owned a 4G TL SH-AWD?

Where are you getting a number like "50%" to the rear?

With my car, I have an information screen that'll show you how the four motors are interacting and working, but even then I wouldn't be able to say what percentage is going where.

9SpeedTran

I have not owned a 4G SH-AWD, but I own a 2014 MDX which has the same technology as noted in the article. I wanted the SH-AWD but I could not make myself give up my TL Type S for a 4G.

The "50%" is an approximation, based on the same information screen you are talking about. I am assuming that it is relatively accurate if rather coarse-grained in its depiction. That may not be a fair assumption, but if it is not, I would venture that all discussions about relative percentages are equally invalid. :-)

9SpeedTran

What really fascinates me about the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD in both the RLX and NSX, differing implementations as they are, is that it clearly shows a roadmap to an all-electric vehicle. And lo and behold, Honda has a vehicle with 4 electric motors with technology that coordinates their operation in much the same way SH-AWD does in entirely or partially ICE architectures.

George Knighton

Yup. :-)

I think you're absolutely right about that.

csmeance

AWD is an incredible drive and is honestly the drivers choice. FWD is more laid back and as refined for folks who don't need the extra oomph in corners or who don't need the extra grip.

Had there not been an 8MPG penalty with AWD on my 4GTL, I certainly would have bought one. The SH-AWD in my MDX makes me grin ear to ear even after 100K miles.

youngTL

8 mpg is a massive penalty. The penalty for it on the 5G is only 4 mpg, but to be fair the 4G had an extra 200 cc of displacement.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ I don't think the mileage hit is anywhere close to that high on the AWD 4G. My AWD MT is showing 25.9 on the running average right now, at about 60% freeway and 40 % surface streets.

Mr Hyde

My father owns a FWD 4G. Having driven them back to back, I would definitely not say that the TLX ride feels cheaper. I would actually say the opposite. With the significant reduction in NVH, I would say it feels more refined with little handling penalty. On my daily drive on less than perfect roads, the TLX definitely stays planted on sections that really upset my TSX. Japanese cars have typically tended to really stiffen suspensions for the handling benefit, but haven't cracked the BMW code of still allowing the suspension to soak up the rough stuff. The TLX can definitely use some more fine tuning, but it's a great step in the right direction in my opinion.

csmeance

^agreed. My 4G gets 31MPG on the highway with the 18" wheels. AWD got 23-24 on my test drive and I couldn't stomach it even though it was so fun to drive.

The TLX penalty isn't that bad esp with VCM helping out. Id honestly get a TLX AWD the next time I'm ready to buy

MT tends to get better than the AT but I'm glad you are getting 26! Way better than the 19-20 I'd get with the 6L V12 on the way to work every morning.



TLX is more luxurious like 3G TL vs a more sporty 4G TL.

lltfly

I very much agree with you. I drove a loaner TLX fwd for 2 days. it was all around lighter feeling than 4G, cheaper leather feeling(at least that certain trim of that loaner), not double wishbone front suspension, lighter steering wheel, probably soft tune engine feeling which is my thought. I could not wait to get my 4G back from dealer at that time. When I got into my 4G, the whole feeling is totally different which is more stable, more luxury feeling.

lltfly

Probably not accurate feeling because of only two days driving with TLX v6. but I felt it was just a fancy accord in and out. Sorry to who is probably going to be pissed off, I just say my opinion. no offense

mojo_79

I can assure you, it's not the suspension holding back the TLX SH-AWD, it's the tires. I replaced the Goodyear tires with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 and it's like driving a completely different car. The car is suddenly very fun to drive.

I traded in a 4G SH-AWD and the suspension tuning is very different. In everyday commuting, the 4G was very harsh, like driving a tank compared to the refined TLX. The 4G does handle better, but with the new tires on the TLX, its handling is almost as good as the 4G when really pushing the car hard. Overall, I prefer the TLX suspension; it's a good combination of comfort and performance. IMO, comfort was an afterthought for the 4G SH-AWD.

Ugpo

There is another significant difference in the driving experience between the two and I have owned both. The ability of the TLX to be in the right for optimal speed through a corner can be frustrating compared to the TL 6MT where you have full control and ability to gear down in anticipation of pre-apex acceleration around a curve (among other instances). As I recall the 4G had a max of 50% to the rear but the ability to divide that torque as needed. It certainly was interesting/impossible to break the rear grip. It just stayed neutral and you would point and shoot. That part is similar in the TLX just not having the right gearing for exit as well as delayed response was what I found mildly frustrating.

Ugpo

right gear that is

Ugpo

Oh, one last point I had Michelin PS2 Supersports (19" 245's) on both cars so that was one issue that was not going to be different.

youngTL

Sport+ if you're going to take turns like that. The TLX is not as much of a performance car as the 4G SH-AWD TL is. It simply wasn't designed with that in mind. Acura's marketing is all backwards. The TLX is a sporty luxury ride, not a luxurious sporty ride. It leans more towards low levels of NVH and a compliant suspension, but it certainly isn't soft like the Lexus ES350. In any event, one reason I didn't buy the 4G is because it's almost as harsh of a ride as my 3G Type-S. I MUCH prefer the TLX suspension (I'm probably one of the few people on this forum to say that - probably because I live in frost heave central...the roads aren't very nice here!)

Back on the point of Sport+, in a manual you're always going to have more control. With the TLX, you have make sure you're below 5th gear before you head into a corner. Sport+ helps with this. As you brake into the corner it'll downshift aggressively. I would tap the paddle to keep it in a single gear through the entire corner, although Sport+ holds it pretty long.


The TLX's performance is more like the 4G automatic than the 6MT (in fact it's faster!). The 6MT was its own beast.

KeithL

I am pretty sure the 4G AWD could push 70% to the rear and then 100% of that could go to either rear wheel in any combination of power split.