Colin

I'm not suggesting their thinking is right, but I'm guessing that you're agreeing with me that what they were 'doing' (ie. planning a V8 car and then cancelling it) was in the works all along. My discussion with Saturn_V is focused on his assertion that they were doing nothing for the 3G RL till after the 4G TL came out.

Colin

Yes, but the proportions were around a FR chassis.

You're in denial, they cancelled the FR NSX when the car was all but done.
No because the current business model (right or wrong) did not include a standalone chassis. This is why we have a the current RLX, something made off a shared chassis.

saturno_v

I think frankly you are in denial, your defense of Acura is admirable but facts are facts...

So they announce at the end of 2008 they are going to develop a V8 engine.....the announcement right in the middle of the deep downturn....and then canceling one year later or so....great....

In the mean time no real work has been done around the RL successor...whistling in the wind and the front-mid engine sport concept.


Poppycock thinking indeed...or sheer management incompetence.


I give you all the benefits of the doubt, very generous...when the TL came around the supposed RL RWD replacement was so far in the works (simple development time) that did not make sense to keep the current slow selling (actually no selling) RL around with another identical car in size and wheelbase for at minimum 3 years and probably more....let the TL be a temporary flagship giving all the advanced tech and then introduce the RWD RL successor.....which at this point is not clear in what segment it should have competed with....5 Series A6 E Class?? Well the TL was already that big, so the RL size wise should have gone against the 7 Series and S Class??
The salesman that sold me my 4G showed me marketing material pitting the TL SH-AWD against the 535i....who is competing with?? Where the RL stands??

From Acura Frontline magazine





If the RL was going to compete with the 5 Series and E Class then the 4G TL was simply too big for its intended segment (3 Series, A4, etc...)
Anyway you slice it, incompetence pour from everywhere.

holografique

The split was announced in March of this year (roughly 2-months ago) and you're expecting a company that large with vehicle designs either about to hit the production line or are already in production to just suddenly put out all new vehicles that prove that there is a chance? Acura possibly actually showing some "change" by delaying the release of the TLX (quite possibly to allow this new split to have some positive effects on the TLX and other upcoming releases) and everyone wants to hang them as well. Good ol damned if you do, damned if you don't.

History and experience working in any large corp will tell you it's unrealistic and impractical to think change can happen quickly and suddenly. It takes time to reverse from mistakes, especially bigs one that Acura has gone through recently. All we can do is hope for the best. And if not, then tell Acura to piss off, go buy another car and STFU already

Yes, we know, we've heard it a thousand f'n times: Acura lost their vision, they made mistakes, they suck, we get it for crying out loud. But to say there's no hope for change after this split is IMO being shortsighted and just continuing to feed into the "glass is half empty" mentality that is getting boring around here.

fsttyms1

No where did i say i or we expected a them to come up with something in 2 months, Im not saying this split should have resulted in a better RLX and TLX, Thinking so would be idiotic. But having said that, the same schmucks that have been helping to run both brands and get them to where they are, are the ones now in charge. Expecting big changes?? . But change should have been in the plans since day 2 of the 4th gen. They brought back the designer of the 3g to help, yet they missed the mark. They missed it with the RLX as well. They cant afford to miss either mark. Sorry if im being a downer or a hater, As much as i love the brand im not going to drink the koolaid. Unfortunately they have had track record of say one thing do another for far too long. Maybe we should say to the koolaid drinkers we are tired of hearing them defend them??? ITS A PUBLIC FORUM, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinions. Im hoping at some point they can find their way, until then though im not holding my breath.

Acura_Dude

I thought we were all getting along.

randomRon82

Lol.... well, it's "healthy" to have the discussion (conveying the good AND the bad) helps to inform potential buyers... as long as everyone understands that we're not all going to have the same opinions.

I wish that I would have paid closer attention to this forum before making a purchase to be honest... it's very informative and helps you see both sides.. not just one.

Acura_Dude

Acura_Dude

I've said it plenty times before and I still think the TLX will be a good sell for Acura. IF Acura messes this up, they'll scramble to fix it (like the Civic.). They need some good selling sedans. Not just SUVs.

jbawden

The TLX ship has sailed, it think the ship was named the USS Flop-o-Rama. They are going to sell a few of these, but it's not going to move the needle. They need to show some balls and create a collection of cars that will help them regain some respect in a segment they helped create. I think the comments in the 2008 article about Acura getting a V8 detail better than anything that Acura has no juice, all but irrelevant in the auto market save for the MDX.

holografique

You're complaint asking whether customers should "wait" for changes after a split that was made less than 2 months ago surely implies otherwise. Hence why I stated what I did.



I agree, change should have come sooner, but it didn't, so it is what it is.



Definitely opinion. To say they missed the mark on the TLX before it's even been released is jumping the gun. Maybe they missed the mark for YOU, but thee is absolutely no data, facts or otherwise saying they missed the mark as a whole, because it's not even out yet. And despite my gripes and complaints with the RLX, I think it's an amazing car and hands down the best car I've owned yet. IMO, the problem with the RLX all came down to 1) poor marketing 2) confused market positioning, and 3) incorrectly priced.

You get rid of those three things and the car is simply amazing and there is an increasing number of people on this forum that were once haters starting to see what an amazing car it is, to the point of purchasing them. Add to that the fact that Acura has already addressed the pricing issue by letting these cars go for unbelievable pricing (to the point of pissing me off considering I paid full price for mine), says they are watching and listening carefully. But I accept it because that was a risk I took by being an early adopter on the car.



I'm not an Acura koolaid drinker, which goes to say for any company and/or product. I've had and continue to have my complaints with the RLX, the 4G TL disaster, and many of the other issues that many have expressed here. But at the same time I don't jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and keep harping the same old points over and over again to the point of ad nauseum.

It is a public forum and just as you have the right to express your constant complaints against Acura, I'm free to express my complaints about the complaints. So there!

Acura_Dude

USS Flop-o-Rama

If Acura did bring a V8 (or even a turbo'd V6) to the lineup that'll definitely stir up the pot. Now as for the TLX, we'll have to wait a few months before we can call it a flop.

keith7120

I'm curious. The curiosity is genuine. You said the RLX is best car you have owned. Which cars have you owned that you are comparing it to. In addition, outside of comparisons what things do you really like about the car and is their any things about the car you dislike? Again, I'm not picking at you. I'm a current 4G SH-AWD owner and in my opinion, that is the best Acura I have owned as I've owned every Gen that has been made. Alhough, I have to admit, I did not like any of the generations on first glance. You are correct on the price of the RLX. They started out way too high, especially without much advertising and marketing.

holografique

Hey Keith,

You can see my list of previous cars in my signature. There was also a 93' Nissan 240SX in my past, but didn't feel like listing it since it wasn't a Honda/Acura

There is no doubt that my perspective is limited compared to other RLX owners who have owned comparable mid-size luxury sedans (eg BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc) and can provide a better comparison. But I did a good bit of research before getting my RLX and I just couldn't find a better bang for my buck when I compared it to the other two cars I was interested in which was an A5/A6, GS350. I also considered the 5-series but decided at that point I was going to stick with Acura.

I was also already sold on the RLX before test driving it because I was one of those that thought the car looked great, even in photos. And while my first test drive with a Tech model was not "mind blowing", I decided to make the jump anyways. It was a month later after placing my order that my Black/Seacoast Advanced came in on the truck straight from Japan with only 9 miles on and I sat it in it for the first time and took her for its first spin that I suddenly felt what the RLX was truly about. I was floored. I had never felt better about a car till that moment.

Aside from the sloppy handling on otherwise smooth roads, it drives like a laser accurate jet. Smooth, tight, responsive, and with precision. For me the car drives and handles exceptionally well. The 3.5 V6 paired with the 6-spd transmission and Sport mode makes it feel like I'm driving my old 3G TL, light, quick and nimble. But with the added agility and handling of P-AWS that I didn't have with my 3G TL. And while it isn't SH-AWD, it also isn't just your normal Acura FWD driving experience.

To summarize my likes/dislikes:

Likes:
Interior (superb)
Milano Leather (very comfortable)
A/C Ventilated Seats (substantially enhances driving comfort)
Instrumentation/Dash Layout & Design
MID functions
NAV / Acuralink Integration
iPhone Acuralink App Integration
Overall Performance & Handling
LKAS/ACC/FCW/CMBS
Exterior Body Design & Jewel Lights
Rear LED taillights
Keyless Entry
LED Illuminated Door Handles

Dislikes:
Noisy GDI engine
A/C compressor noise
Sloppy suspension when driving on bad road conditions
Slow NAV UI response
Restrictive NAV UI safety
Lack of rear seat A/C controls (MDX feature)
Lack of IDS (MDX feature)
Lack of automatic trunk door (MDX feature)
Lack of "always on" ambient interior lighting (MDX feature)

I've said it before here, if the engine, tuning, handling and performance of the RLX is any indication of what's coming in the TLX, then I think a lot of current TL/TSX owners are going to be in for a surprise. The RLX is a sleeper that performs much more like a sports sedan than a luxury sedan.

George Knighton

It's a matter of opinion and perspective.

To some extent, Honda has competed with itself frequently.

In 1994 you could pick between a Honda VTEC Prelude and an Acura Integra GS-R.

Perhaps they could have eliminated one vehicle or the other, but their reasoning was that they sold more vehicles having the two available instead of one.

They're both Hondas, but their missions are slightly different and they look different, and feel different, even if they perform about the same.

Even if they can quantify as few as 3000 more vehicles/year because of the extra model, that's okay with them.

randomRon82

Sorry guys and gals.... not good picture quality, but I tried. lol

I drove over to the Marysville plant (only 30 min away)... to see if there was any tlx "activity" Lo and behold we have a TLX in the wild... unfortunately I couldn't get my freaking camera to focus while zooming in and I didn't have much time as I was on the side of the road. I almost pulled over to the side and walked over, but I chickened out.

Treblig

What's that in the background, a Civic? It looks almost as big as that TLX. Thanks for the pics though

It's been said several times before, but that should have been the 4G TL as it looks like a "natural" transition from the 3G car. It looks nice and clean but doesn't appear to have the same "presence" (like it or love it) as the current 4G TL.

Acura_Dude

Thanks for the pics, RandomRon.

randomRon82

Yep it's a Civic in the back and an Accord beside it.... tbh, it didn't look much better than either of them

Acura_Dude

MuGen7Modulo

Hey man, here's homework for you. Go back over there and take some real pics, you are only 30 min away!

randomRon82

Lol I've been there a few times.. Today a tlx happened to be out, but was too far away to get a decent shot... And I'm on a highway so it was a bit risky.... It looks closer because I'm zoomed in all the way, but its blurry because I'm stretching and can't keep the phone still. Sorry bout it.

MuGen7Modulo

Hopefully you'll have better chances next time, we appreciate your pics anyway!

This looks good, just open the pic in a new window (right click) for superb resolution.
TLX will break necks & sales

docboy

Thanks for taking the pics.

From that angle, the TLX reminds me of a 1G TSX with a 2G RL grill and Jewel headlights. Definitely very conservative styling.

fsttyms1

Whats worse is all you see is this giant blob of silver for a grille, it just doesnt flow.

ostrich

Actually, I do not mind that grill at all. It seems fine to me.

What bothers me a little bit is that horizontal silver trim in the bumper, just below the headlights. Having a couple of horizontal lines there in the bumper looks a bit awkward against the dark exterior paint.

SiCk_TyPe_S

Good pics nonetheless..

randomRon82

Honestly, that was the first thing I was able to notice when I looked at the car head on... It actually kinda threw me off. It would look better if it had more dimension but yes it's just a plain silver mass.

fsttyms1

Agree, maybe even a darker color would help it out.

randomRon82

This is off topic, but the article was an interesting read so I'm sharing...

Japan's premium motor brands, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, remain far behind their German rivals.

http://www.economist.com/news/busine...mitstoinfiniti

keith7120

Thanks man, great input.

Rocket_man

Sorry.... I wasn't being very accurate.... this is the LED feature I was referring it.... I like it, even if the other lights are incandescent. I can deal with it.

randomRon82

Oh, the light pipe... it's decent. It would have been even better if they also added a pipe at the bottom. Also the Acura light piping system isn't very bright (at least not for the MDX) and they're too thin to be noticeable... I believe they use incandescent light versus LED for the pipes versus the other manufacturers... ie Audi



The second LED row on the TL however looks like a light pipe also, only thicker and brighter.

Momyc

That's meaning no LED brake lights ? No hope for turn signal either ?

randomRon82

The brake lights are LED... As for turn signals, Acura has never had front or rear LED turn signals on any of their models.

Momyc

I hoped they will start that with TLX , but no luck..

randomRon82

Yeah, no chance... The mdx doesn't even have LED brake lights anymore. Neither does the ilx or rdx and the zdx never had them. The "flagship" rlx even has incandescent front and rear turn signals. This doesn't give the brand an image of technological advancement imo.

Acura_Dude

I thought the 3G TL's rear turn signals were LED. I know the brakelight is LED.

randomRon82

Nope. The brake lights yes, turn signals not a chance.

Rocketsfan

Weird. I saw this post right after I read this on Autoblog :

Lexus back in luxury sales race after three-year absence