justnspace

iTrader: (1)

there are NO denying the numbers.
sedans are selling LESS and LESS each year

BEAR-AvHistory

You don't think you will get a new car after you retire?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

every one cant be like you, ugly kit car guy!

i'm only 30 but dont plan on financing another vehicle ever.
keeping what I have till FOREVER!

when did you pick up the CX-5!?

mk5

Cyclical. The demand will return. Crossovers are ugly.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

and that is what Acura is betting on with the PCP concept.

all we have to do is wait and see. but who will wait another 10 years!?!??!?!

CheeseyPoofs McNut

It's likely - but the plan is to spend more on traveling and less on depreciating assets etc etc when we retire. Depends on how the market treats us over the next 15 years.

kurtatx

I read somewhere that spending on experience is supposedly better for you. But I love driving a nice car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

There was a time not too long ago that Honda was also getting destroyed. But Honda fixed up the whole line up after one generation. That's what Acura needs now. Jon Ikeda took the top Acura job 1.5 years ago. It will take time for him to fix these issues. I don't think we will see these changes until new gen Acura models are out. Earliest we see something would probably be the ILX, followed by RDX.

To me, this is why Acura needs to make variations of its sedans. Look at what BMW have done with the 3 series - wagon, Gran Turismo, diesel, hybrids, coupes, gran coupe, and convertible (in the form of 4 series). Sedan sales are down, but there are ways to overcome this issue without way too much investment.

But then it comes down to volume. I was just hearing the new over the weekend that Mercedes Benz was the leading luxury car make in 2016 with sales of over 2 million units worldwide. I'd think BMW isn't too far off that, followed by Audi. Acura on the other hand sold 160k in the USA. My guess is that including Canada and some other countries, Acura probably sold just 200k worldwide. In other words, Acura is doing just 10% of the volume of Mercedes Benz.

TacoBello

Well said, iforyou.

But but keep in mind, a decade ago, BMW and MB sales weren't what they are today. Yes, they were still much greater than Acura, but, as you suggested, they evolved and continue to evolve and never look back.

Acura fell short by staying stagnant. The TLX MMC is, if true, a complete disappointment. But if sales are lower than Acura corporate predicted, I can see why they didn't want to throw a ton of money into a model that isn't meeting expectations.

That being said, I think you are right about Acura making some substantial changes for the next generation of the ILX, TLX and RLX. It's frustrating for us because of the timeline, but car companies are slow to make changes... Understandable when you're dealing with billion dollar developments.. But very frustrating for the consumer. It's rough when Acura sales people are tearing their own products apart. I couldn't believe what a couple sales guys I spoke to were saying, and it's much the same what you read on here.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, being able to adapt and evolve is important. Honda has often been good with that, while adding their own uniqueness to their products. I feel that Acura had the chance to do that too. Think I mentioned it somewhere else not too long ago, but scraping the RWD V8 tier-1 program along with the HSV meant that Acura was destined to fall behind. We can all see the effect now. I don't think the problem lies with not having RWD or V8, rather, the back up plan to that program was non-existent. Smart luxury merely means using whatever is in Honda parts bin and add a few luxury bits and that was it.

Yup, I totally understand the disappointment and frustration. It's been 8, 9 years since Acura went downhill and we currently don't know if the new gen models will be any good. We just know there's a chance that they will be good.

Haha, yea, these Acura sales people have essentially 5 models to sell, excluding the NSX. But then, One of those 5, the RLX, has been DOA. Leaving 4, and even the ILX isn't doing well. TLX is doing ok, but the only models that these people can make money on are the RDX and MDX. That doesn't sound enough.

With that said, I'm hearing different things about the TLX MMC. I guess we won't know for sure until April.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe they will hit the Goldilocks' zone this time. Not too radical not too bland, just right.

boe_d

Well that certainly is true for Acura - other manufacturers seem to be selling them just fine - including Honda.

kurtatx

Acura is certainly a part of the trend, but don't pretend every car brand is doing okay in the sedan segment.

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

hahahah

BEAR-AvHistory

From ugly kit car guy.(Saintor is never wrong so it must be true).

Think it was early last summer. Granddaughter was starting college. She had been driving the old Xterra hand down from my grandson but it was turning into a maintenance pit.

keith7120

It

It looks like a MDX converted into a car.

kevTL888

i'm really looking for the refresh, i'm ready to replace my 2009 IS350. not a fan of the current IS styling and engine choices (I4 turbo is too weak, 3.5 V6 is still flawless but it's been out since 2005). even if the refreshed TLX keep the current I4 instead of going turbo, i'd still give it a hard look for it's competitive price and better exterior styling.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Looks will always be a personal matter but frankly I think it looks 100 times better than the front of the new Camry that's getting all the love.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Check Honda's Accord and Civic sales. They are fairly flat or off, despite being excellent, well-received models. (I know - I own a '13 Accord EX that is superb, especially for its price). All the action is in SUVs and crossovers. I believe the CRV is Honda's biggest seller these days.

TacoBello

that leads me to believe that you are an outlier, when it comes to aesthetics. Personally, I like that Camry, just like many others do.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's starting to tell me that those who love the TLX looks, are generally part of a small demographic.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

You may be right - in my opinion it's a much cleaner design which appeals to me.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

haha well i don't really like the new Camry design.....in fact I don't like many new Toyota designs...Camry, Corolla, Rav 4, Prius....

mk5

Funny, the profiles of the TLX and new Camry are aesthetically similar. I think the TLX is acceptable yet boring. Not sure about the new grille yet, but
I do much prefer it already to the new Camry's grilles. The Lexus/Toyota spindle grille is The other new Camry grille looks like it took cues from Kylo Ren's helmet.

boe_d

Unfortunately though acura would be using bad logic in that case. Instead of thinking the whole market is bad why spend money based on ACURA's sedan sales they really need to look at what others are doing. It would be like saying we have a ton of pickup trucks that are selling OK but the dump trucks that have a 2 stroke engine in them don't sell - I guess the market just doesn't need a dump truck. If they got someone in there who knew how to design cars, they might actually have TLX sales. Putting sprinkles on a turd doesn't turn it into a cupcake.

TacoBello

Yeah I'm not much of a fan of that silver Camry you posted. It's like it has a beak, but as you said, with Kylo Ren attached also.

If it came purely down to driving dynamics, I would choose the TLX 100 out of 100 times, when compared to the Camry.

but just looking at the red Camry vs the TLX, I'm leaning over to the red Camry. I just feel it looks better. Beauty is in the eye of beholder though, right?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to say. For the 2012 Civic, Honda went ahead and made many big changes for the 2013 Civic for the MMC. That was worthwhile because the 9g Civic just came out and would still had 4 years for the model year. Also, Honda is consistently selling 30000 units or so per month. On top of that, Honda could not afford to ruin the reputation of the Civic.

The TLX on the other hand has about 2 years left in this current generation. On top of that, we are talking about 3000 units/month optimistically.

You can easily see the huge difference in # for both.

Given that the TLX is on an Accord platform that is on its last stretch (i.e. new Accord will ride on new Civic platform), perhaps, Acura figured that even if they invested heavily in the TLX MMC, its handling would still fall short of its competitors. And again, for all that effort, how much more sales can they really get?

Then there's the general luxury car market situation. Overall, this market declined significantly. Only a couple cars in this segment had gains, namely the brand new A4. In particular, the Lexus IS and ES both dropped about 35% last month - even more substantial than the TLX. In fact, the TLX outsold the IS.

Don't get me wrong, this is not to say spending heavily for the TLX MMC doesn't make sense. I'm just showing that there's another way of looking at this.

kurtatx

The Camry does look better in a number of ways, but the $40,000 TLX has to be better than a Camry in every way, shape, and form. We're talking about Kia, Toyota, and (of course) Honda in reference to Acura. This is completely unacceptable if you are Acura management.

Acura needs to knock it off with all the wax poetic commercials, drop the meaningless taglines, and go back to just making cars.

IntegraVT

iTrader: (1)

Would be very disappointing if there really are no powertrain changes in the TLX's model run.

Historically speaking, the 2G TL received a 5AT and Type-S variant, 3G TL got a Type-S variant, 4G TL got a 6AT, 1G TSX got a 5HP bump, 2G TSX got a V6 option and a Wagon variant.

mondster

Any confirmation that it will be at the chicago auto show?

quantum7

Yeah...hoping for a different transmission than the ZF, but not expecting it. The IS is getting long in the tooth with the transmission also, and the mileage is NOT good with the 300 or 350. Trying to hang on to my 07 TL until something comes along. The A4 looks awesome but the long term $ scares me.

quantum7

The only thing that we have seen is a reference to a Wikipedia site post....but the reference in that was an online article that said "look for" the TLX to show up......well short of a confirmation. I looked on the auto show site and they just list the current model year Acuras as being there.

mondster

Yeah. Checked the site too and no 2018 tlx it seems. Whats the next big auto show after chicago?

Saintor

For the record, I owned an Audi Turbo for 3 years out of warranty, and the repairs/maintenance total was near $11000CA ($8400US). And that was a while ago, no joke.

kurtatx

Did you skip every oil change? Maybe that's why you think every car you previously owned sucked.

Saintor

Get smart and then, come back to us.

TacoBello

I'm glad you said "that was awhile ago" because I keep hearing audi's are getting better, in terms reliability. Hell, there are plenty of users on AZ that have a newer Audi, and I don't see them complaining.

But, for the record, I believe it was likely the owner of the car, as to why it failed so hard

TacoBello

We could say the same to you. Have a nice day!

back on topic: when is the Chicago auto show?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

It's occuring now, I saw YouTube vids of it

TacoBello

Of the TLX at the show? Or just the show itself?

Saintor

Too bad you can't even meet that criteria.