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^ @BEAR is correct. A screen is cheaper to source than building the tooling/assembly for a lot of buttons and analog displays. The screen is sourced from screen manufacturers then will be installed into a template to fit it. Buttons require way more machine work. i.e in large scale production screens have gotten to the point where they are cheaper than the equivalent buttons
I'm thinking that Acura is going to throw out some "rules" in favor of updating models as necessary. Autonews says that the 2019 RDX will get the Precision Cockpit tech for instance and I hope that it does. At some point you have to just do what you have to do.
If Acura wants to stay afloat they really need to throw out those rules asap and hurry up with it. The crossover market is red hot and it's really not a good idea to sit on their asses right now. Hell Kia pumps out a new Sorento every 2-3 years lol. 2011 was a new model. 2014 was a new model, 2016 was a new model and 2018-2019 might be a new model too. With each FMC they are making HUGE strides. Acura can and should do the same and arguably they are doing something (the 2015-2016 jump in the RDX was a big one) and the 2016 MDX got a new SH-AWD and 9 speed auto and then a MMC in 2017 and a Hybrid model as well. Now if they could stir some shit up with the sedan lineup, they would be doing good things.
^ @BEAR is correct. A screen is cheaper to source than building the tooling/assembly for a lot of buttons and analog displays. The screen is sourced from screen manufacturers then will be installed into a template to fit it. Buttons require way more machine work. i.e in large scale production screens have gotten to the point where they are cheaper than the equivalent buttons
FWIW Analog gauge sets I have bought Tach, Speedo, Oil P, Oil T, Water T, Fuel, Volts, less senders for $900 to $1000. I can get the same read readouts in gauge format on my phone with a $5 app & a $10 OBD II sender.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-23-2017 at 12:31 PM.
Maybe not. Some lower cost cars ae already running glass cockpits & one has for a number of years. Accord, being the cash cow, will want one to compete heads-up with these cars.
Also think glass, after the initial development, is cheaper to make than a dash full of analog gauges.
The Odyssey getting it's new system makes me think that Honda and Acura are on separate paths now - UI wise. Honda will remain touchscreen and Acura will use the trackpad thingy.
Well in his defence the Accord is sort of similar. But I think the biggest issue with Acura interiors is three parts parts.
Part 1 is the material quality, it is REALLY cheap in all but the RLX and even then it is not plush like it should be. The MDX has a little bit of soft touch materials on the top of the doors, but near the handle area and below the armrest it is cheap scratchy hard plastic (even my 1G RDX was soft across the whole top of the door).
Part 2 is the relative "coldness" of the interior. The interior just feels cold to me and too corporate and hard. I don't know if I make sense by saying that, but I guess the best way I can describe it as is uninviting and very plain. The precision dash would help this, but it will not solve the other issues.
Part 3 is the DATED UI. I get into brand new Acura products and feel like I stepped into a luxury car from 2007. Don't get me wrong, the safety prevention tech is cool, but that nav really needs an update and the UI needs MASSIVE cleanup.
Lol looking back at your list again, I just realized we almost wrote the same things.
Your "Part 1" regarding the soft touch materials is spot on. It was actually the first thing I noticed getting into the TLX. The doors miss this basic touch that without looks very cheap. Little details like that do wonders for the aesthetics. I don't expect the "soft touch" materials on a civic but the TLX should have it standard. My 3rd gen type S and even the base model have much higher end looking materials in the interior. Just plastic panels on the doors really is a cheap look and feel. For a premium line its not premium materials. Maybe 2nd gen tlx will do it right. Styling wise on the exterior I think its not far off and 18 update may get it over the top or at least improve on what is already a nice exterior design.
To me just powertrain and interior are where things can be improved the most. Seems most people agree on what changes are wanted and it's just a matter of when Acura will listen and make them. I do think they will get it right on the 2nd generation TLX. I guess you never know and I just hope they don't take a step backwards on the model redo when it comes out in a 2020.
Its a vid screen with the gauges being effectively moving pictures. Same as the "glass cockpit" on modern airliners & fighters. Here is a BMW version available on the 2018 3/4 series showing some variations you can select on the fly. Colors can also be changed to suit performance levels selected D S S+ M etc
Your "Part 1" regarding the soft touch materials is spot on. It was actually the first thing I noticed getting into the TLX. The doors miss this basic touch that without looks very cheap. Little details like that do wonders for the aesthetics. I don't expect the "soft touch" materials on a civic but the TLX should have it standard. My 3rd gen type S and even the base model have much higher end looking materials in the interior. Just plastic panels on the doors really is a cheap look and feel. For a premium line its not premium materials. Maybe 2nd gen tlx will do it right. Styling wise on the exterior I think its not far off and 18 update may get it over the top or at least improve on what is already a nice exterior design.
To me just powertrain and interior are where things can be improved the most. Seems most people agree on what changes are wanted and it's just a matter of when Acura will listen and make them. I do think they will get it right on the 2nd generation TLX. I guess you never know and I just hope they don't take a step backwards on the model redo when it comes out in a 2020.
I am a bit anal about the soft touch stuff and I'll admit that. That is usually the first area I will check when getting into a car for the first time. For me it is the most obvious area that cost cutting was done, that and the pillars being wrapped in fabric or plastic and also if the glovebox and trunk are lined with materials.
The first time I stepped into a 3G TL I was EXTREMELY impressed at how much the TL had soft touch materials. All the way down the doors to the bottom. That is usually only in germans and other very high end cars. I remember when I got into my 2007 MDX I was surprised at how little soft touch materials were used.
I don't hate the TLX exterior, however the interior of most Acuras really needs work along with the power trains. We can agree on that.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Its a vid screen with the gauges being effectively moving pictures. Same as the "glass cockpit" on modern airliners & fighters. Here is a BMW version available on the 2018 3/4 series showing some variations you can select on the fly. Colors can also be changed to suit performance levels selected D S S+ M etc
I guess it just looked so vivid that I couldn't tell it was digital. I agree though that Acura needs to come in on this. My 2004 Touareg had a 4" digital screen in the center of the dash (yes it was grainy and didn't have crazy tech) but it just gave the interior a very luxurious touch.
I have read many times that interior of 3G TL was great. It will cost Acura less than 700-800$ to put that in TLX if they want, and i am sure they can make that money up by reduced discounts.
I have read many times that interior of 3G TL was great. It will cost Acura less than 700-800$ to put that in TLX if they want, and i am sure they can make that money up by reduced discounts.
I also always read that the 4G surpasses the 3G. I really have been looking to get into a 4G just so I can check it out for myself.
I also always read that the 4G surpasses the 3G. I really have been looking to get into a 4G just so I can check it out for myself.
I had a 4G and a TLX... imo the TLX was a few step backwards. The milano leather in the TL was significantly better, softer.. more premium feeling, with color contrast stitching (which added to the more premium vibe). The plastics were more soft touch... the seats were overall more comfortable/substantial. The steering wheel leather was much much softer and thicker... and overall the interior just felt more solid (that's to name a few things)... not to mention the much better els system but that's another topic.
I also always read that the 4G surpasses the 3G. I really have been looking to get into a 4G just so I can check it out for myself.
The 4G is nicer than the 3G. It's not a whopping upgrade, but it is definitely nicer. I believe the 4G was Acura's one and only step into the upper market. They made the 4G a bigger car overall, with nicer materials, to compete with some of its rivals back in 2009. To be honest, it is a nice place to sit. There are some quirks about it that I don't like- such as the arm rest cover- it kind of has a "U" shape in it, to allow you to still have a cup in the further back cupholder, when you slide the arm rest forward. It makes perfect sense as to why they did it, but personally I don't like losing that bit of support. I know. Very minor (and you can't please everyone). I could easily look past that if I loved the car as a whole. .
It seems Acura felt they couldn't step up into the higher market, as per the 4G sales numbers. Acura thought its design was a homerun. But really, I can't help but think that's exactly what kept it from selling well. The exterior was very polarizing and many people just couldn't get on board with it. Stepping up in price/luxury/size, you start getting closer to the Germans. If you're paying similar money, why not go with something that you like to look at, as opposed to not? I'm sure the 4G came standard with more features than the Germans, but if you can't stand looking at your car everyday, those features are kind of meaningless.
I don't see the 2 screen going away for the MMC, but I think they may make it more user friendly with fan speed and things like that having to touch the screen so many times just to turn the fan speed down or up. Acura needs to get going with a HD screen resolution as well. We may get a few more soft touches on the interior and hopefully the Android/Apple play stuff. I'm happy if they just upgrade the wheels for base models. I've heard that there will be no more slap on aero kits but full bumper pieces which I hope is the case. I just want the TLX to look and feel like it "Belongs" if you know what I mean. Enough with the fake plastics look a like for wood grain. Just do something else or a carbon fiber and call it a day.
I wouldn't expect drastic changes for the MMC inside the car.
The two screens will remain. Carbon fiber? Doubtful. It's still pricey, especially when you're developing parts on a massive scale and require flawless quality every time. The Germans charge a ton for any CF accents. I doubt any material changes will happen inside. They might change the door cards, but that's about it.
Android auto and carplay would be a very nice add in, into the TLX. Hopefully they do that.
First, I'm a fan of the TLX despite its changed mission (from the 4G TL) and some of the cost-cutting measures described above. It's a lot less performance oriented than the 4G TL, but there are probably a lot of customers for this class of car who want this.
The first time I saw a new TLX I immediately noticed the large expanses of hard plastic on door tops, the dash and other places. While everything is tight and nicely styled, it did detract for me from the overall "premium-ness" of the car.
But, while it's been some time since I've sat in a bunch of TLX competitors, this is a trend I've noticed in most of them too. I'd guess if you looked at the interiors of most of today's premium brands (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, MB, Audi, BMW) you'd find the same trend. Audis used to have beautiful, warm interiors, but the last few I've sat in have looked stark, cold and relatively cheap compared to those cars of a few years ago. There's a LOT of competition in this industry, and margins aren't what they used to be. I'm afraid that this is something over time we're just going to have to live with, as much as it pains me to say so. Every now and then, one maker might say "F it," we're going to build the nicest interior we can to grab some market share, but overall, I see the trend of de-contenting continuing in this segment.
I guess it just looked so vivid that I couldn't tell it was digital. I agree though that Acura needs to come in on this. My 2004 Touareg had a 4" digital screen in the center of the dash (yes it was grainy and didn't have crazy tech) but it just gave the interior a very luxurious touch.
I also always read that the 4G surpasses the 3G. I really have been looking to get into a 4G just so I can check it out for myself.
I owned several 3G TLs, and a 4G and now a TLX and the 4G was the better built and better materials of the 3. I would slot the TLX above the 3G and below the 4G. Exterior styling was the thing that hurt Acuar's aspirations of starting the move upscale with the 4G and the MMC was too little too late. It is a shame because I like the larger size of the 4G and the interior quality, but the styling wore me out after 20 months.
I had a 4G and a TLX... imo the TLX was a few step backwards. The milano leather in the TL was significantly better, softer.. more premium feeling, with color contrast stitching (which added to the more premium vibe). The plastics were more soft touch... the seats were overall more comfortable/substantial. The steering wheel leather was much much softer and thicker... and overall the interior just felt more solid (that's to name a few things)... not to mention the much better els system but that's another topic.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
The 4G is nicer than the 3G. It's not a whopping upgrade, but it is definitely nicer. I believe the 4G was Acura's one and only step into the upper market. They made the 4G a bigger car overall, with nicer materials, to compete with some of its rivals back in 2009. To be honest, it is a nice place to sit. There are some quirks about it that I don't like- such as the arm rest cover- it kind of has a "U" shape in it, to allow you to still have a cup in the further back cupholder, when you slide the arm rest forward. It makes perfect sense as to why they did it, but personally I don't like losing that bit of support. I know. Very minor (and you can't please everyone). I could easily look past that if I loved the car as a whole. .
It seems Acura felt they couldn't step up into the higher market, as per the 4G sales numbers. Acura thought its design was a homerun. But really, I can't help but think that's exactly what kept it from selling well. The exterior was very polarizing and many people just couldn't get on board with it. Stepping up in price/luxury/size, you start getting closer to the Germans. If you're paying similar money, why not go with something that you like to look at, as opposed to not? I'm sure the 4G came standard with more features than the Germans, but if you can't stand looking at your car everyday, those features are kind of meaningless.
Originally Posted by KeithL
I owned several 3G TLs, and a 4G and now a TLX and the 4G was the better built and better materials of the 3. I would slot the TLX above the 3G and below the 4G. Exterior styling was the thing that hurt Acuar's aspirations of starting the move upscale with the 4G and the MMC was too little too late. It is a shame because I like the larger size of the 4G and the interior quality, but the styling wore me out after 20 months.
I agree with all of you that the styling was the biggest issue with the 4G. I can't wait to get some experience with one just so I can check it out myself and see what I think. Personally I put the TLX at the bottom of the totem pole from an interior quality perspective, but not by a large margin compared to the 3G. However I would really like some time with a 4G because if the 3G was nice to me, the 4G will probably really really impress me based on your guys's comments.
I agree with all of you that the styling was the biggest issue with the 4G. I can't wait to get some experience with one just so I can check it out myself and see what I think. Personally I put the TLX at the bottom of the totem pole from an interior quality perspective, but not by a large margin compared to the 3G. However I would really like some time with a 4G because if the 3G was nice to me, the 4G will probably really really impress me based on your guys's comments.
not sure I agree. I owned 4 3G TLs and virtually every one of them had a squeak or rattle and serval the leather wore prematurely. The TLX leather while not as good as the 4G is better than then 3G. And so far the interior is tight, no noises.
not sure I agree. I owned 4 3G TLs and virtually every one of them had a squeak or rattle and serval the leather wore prematurely. The TLX leather while not as good as the 4G is better than then 3G. And so far the interior is tight, no noises.
Here's the thing, my opinion is based on a strictly first impression basis. So I can't comment to things like rattles, wear and tear, day to day living...etc. I do agree that Acura leather in the past was absolutely awful though, hard and cheap and always crack and tear prone. So for me, just touching and feeling things in the 3G tells me it is higher material quality (not leather, just like door and dash materials). That is not to say that the TLX is garbage, it isn't. I have no driving time in a TLX (I really wans hoping the dealer would have given me a loaner). For me, the TLX having AWD puts it above the 3G. I will not buy a daily driver vehicle that is not AWD. I just won't. So if I was in a situation to buy a mid-size sedan for a daily driver and it was between a 3G TL and TLX, I would easily take the TLX. If it was between a 4G face lift TL and a TLX it would be a slightly tougher sell for me but again it would most likely be the TLX based on size and more modern layout. I don't think anyone here is calling the TLX garbage (if they are, I disagree), we are however just saying that Acura has so much potential. If they can divorce from Honda, they would be smart.
+1 The G4 was a really good car saddled with a fugly skin
Agreed. I think the 4G was good car and an upgrade in many ways to the 3G but a downgrade in others. No Type-S or Brembo brakes and upgraded suspension offering was a disappointment. Not as much a disappointment as its fugly looks but still.
My local dealer had their open house/tech day today. They also had a pre-production NSX available for test-rides, being given by a regional rep. I got to ride it and damn it is FAST. It really pushes you back in your seat without any warning, which I enjoyed! The tech in the car is insane (quiet mode, the seamless switching of the modes, etc). I definitely have this car on my list to own, sometime in the future. Anyways, the rep and I were talking during the drive and he said the 2018 TLX actually looks really good in person. The A-spec package (the white one that we have seen) apparently is gonna have upgraded suspension and a free-er flowing exhaust, which may add like 5 or so hp. Also, every model in the Acura lineup is getting an A-spec option. The real treat is for the model year 2020 though, as the Type-S WILL return. According to him, the management has heard our concerns and the Type-S is part of that. They are shooting for 400 hp out of a TT V6. He had no other details than that though. I'm gonna assume a 7 DCT or some version of the 9 DCT from the NSX plus the SH-AWD system.
^ if the above bodes true...by 2020...what a joke.
the fact that is most concerning is that they couldn't figure out these "concerns" themselves, let alone not being able to just "get it" in the first place to have prevented the concerns from even happening all together. it's like blunder after blunder...to then "hear our concerns"...to then take 3-7 years to rectify them...only to come with a new set of blunders...the cycle never ends.
I have never been more ready to leave the brand for good. they have lost all ability to innovate at a pace that can keep up with the competition.
^ if the above bodes true...by 2020...what a joke.
the fact that is most concerning is that they couldn't figure out these "concerns" themselves, let alone not being able to just "get it" in the first place to have prevented the concerns from even happening all together. it's like blunder after blunder...to then "hear our concerns"...to then take 3-7 years to rectify them...only to come with a new set of blunders...the cycle never ends.
I have never been more ready to leave the brand for good. they have lost all ability to innovate at a pace that can keep up with the competition.
He said 2020 model year, which means calendar year 2019. I assume this will be the swan song for this current generation TLX as the new one comes in for the 2021 model year. I'd rather Acura take the time to get it right. Thing is, we have yet to see the refresh in person. The MDX with the new grille looks a lot better in person than in pictures.
He said 2020 model year, which means calendar year 2019. I assume this will be the swan song for this current generation TLX as the new one comes in for the 2021 model year. I'd rather Acura take the time to get it right. Thing is, we have yet to see the refresh in person. The MDX with the new grille looks a lot better in person than in pictures.
I think he means the Type-S model will be in the 2nd generation TLX, which will come out late 2019 as a 2020 model. I think whatever enhancements Acura introduces in the mid-cycle refreshed '18 TLX will be as good as this gen TLX gets. The first generation TLX will try its best to chug along the next couple of years until the 2nd gen comes out. From what is suggested, the 2020 model should be pretty awesome.
I think he means the Type-S model will be in the 2nd generation TLX, which will come out late 2019 as a 2020 model. I think whatever enhancements Acura introduces in the mid-cycle refreshed '18 TLX will be as good as this gen TLX gets. The first generation TLX will try its best to chug along the next couple of years until the 2nd gen comes out. From what is suggested, the 2020 model should be pretty awesome.
I'm guessing Acura isn't gonna have a 5 year model lifespan anymore? But yeah I think it's probably gonna be for the 2nd generation TLX as you said.
I think Acura will push 2nd Gen TLX by April 2019. We as Acura enthusiasts / critics/ owners/ ex owners etc are already exhausted with the TLX, just because we are continuously longing for Acura of yesteryear. But I really feel the refresh might be a step in the right direction. The very 1st time i saw the MDX pentagon i was like ewww. But in person that front end is sweet. The Pentagon may work on the TLX . If they do it right I may trade my '12 Advance, for 2 reasons. The ride on the ShAwd is very harsh and lack of safety tech. The blind spot monitoring has helped me a couple times. Would be nice to have lka, acc, bsm, and hopefully Android play.
I think Acura will push 2nd Gen TLX by April 2019. We as Acura enthusiasts / critics/ owners/ ex owners etc are already exhausted with the TLX, just because we are continuously longing for Acura of yesteryear. But I really feel the refresh might be a step in the right direction. The very 1st time i saw the MDX pentagon i was like ewww. But in person that front end is sweet. The Pentagon may work on the TLX . If they do it right I may trade my '12 Advance, for 2 reasons. The ride on the ShAwd is very harsh and lack of safety tech. The blind spot monitoring has helped me a couple times. Would be nice to have lka, acc, bsm, and hopefully Android play.
The pentagon really looks good on darker colored MDX's. It's a bit too much on the lighter colored ones...but overall, I think it's a step up from the shield grille.
I'm guessing Acura isn't gonna have a 5 year model lifespan anymore? But yeah I think it's probably gonna be for the 2nd generation TLX as you said.
1st Gen TLX: '15, '16, '17, '18 and '19 equals a 5 year model lifespan. The '20 which would presumably come out in late '19 would be the first year of the 2nd generation TLX.
My local dealer had their open house/tech day today. They also had a pre-production NSX available for test-rides, being given by a regional rep. I got to ride it and damn it is FAST. It really pushes you back in your seat without any warning, which I enjoyed! The tech in the car is insane (quiet mode, the seamless switching of the modes, etc). I definitely have this car on my list to own, sometime in the future. Anyways, the rep and I were talking during the drive and he said the 2018 TLX actually looks really good in person. The A-spec package (the white one that we have seen) apparently is gonna have upgraded suspension and a free-er flowing exhaust, which may add like 5 or so hp. Also, every model in the Acura lineup is getting an A-spec option. The real treat is for the model year 2020 though, as the Type-S WILL return. According to him, the management has heard our concerns and the Type-S is part of that. They are shooting for 400 hp out of a TT V6. He had no other details than that though. I'm gonna assume a 7 DCT or some version of the 9 DCT from the NSX plus the SH-AWD system.
For A-spec model, did he mention any transmission (sw or hw) changes? How about different brakes and tires?
^ exactly the point I was making in my previous post...
In 2-3 years, the competition will be 2-3 steps ahead of them...AGAIN. Not to mention the standard brands continuing to close in more and more on their restrained approach to innovation. I'm tired of spending my money on a brand that gets treated like a "science project" by the mother ship. None of the other premium luxury brands have this issue. None.
Last edited by holografique; 03-26-2017 at 11:05 AM.
^ exactly the point I was making in my previous post...
In 2-3 years, the competition will be 2-3 steps ahead of them...AGAIN. Not to mention the standard brands continuing to close in more and more on their restrained approach to innovation. I'm tired of spending my money on a brand that gets treated like a "science project" by the mother ship. None of the other premium luxury brands have this issue. None.
Balanced chassis with rear wheel bias, turbo v6 and a decent transmission are basic building blocks of performance oriented midsize sedans. Idiots at Acura wasted a decade assuming that people will line up for so called smart luxury (or smart performance) based on accord chassis, J35 and 350 lbs of batteries. Once the basic building blocks are there, other issues can be relatively easy.
03-22-2017, 11:57 PM
