CheeseyPoofs McNut

Acura sedans had an anemic month - TLX came in at 2,714 (5,777 sold in Oct 2015) and the ILX sold just 999 vs 1,860 last October. The RLX rolled in at 93.

Seems now would be a great time to beat them up on price if one were in the market.

Meanwhile the MDX sold 5,052 vs 4,405 last Oct and the RDX sold 3,944 vs 3,891 last Oct. Sedans continue to be yesterday's news!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The TLX segment is doing pretty badly in general, though Q50 and A4 both had a good month. The 3 series actually dropped even more than the TLX.

For the TLX, without any changes, it's hard for it to compete.

Tony Pac

Terrible!

Acura sales will be down by 20,000 units this year comparing to last year

BEAR-AvHistory

Agee not a good month for the BMW 3 & 4 series with only 5215US/1199CND 3 series & 2853US/309CND 4 series sold. Time to shoot the BMW marketing department & start over. Then again maybe in an act of kindness we could commute the Death Sentence & farm then out to Acura for shot at redemption.

Interesting note: Looks like the 4 series outsold the TLX. I don't think this has ever happened before.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I'd imagine the new generation is coming soon?

AZuser

It won't be that bad.

2015 TLX (U.S.) sales = 47,080
YTD 2016 TLX (U.S.) sales = 31,254
_________________________________
Difference so far = 15,826

Let's say sales for November 2016 and December 2016 decline by 50% YoY as well.

Nov 2015 sales were 2,987. 50% of that is 1,493
Dec 2015 sales were 3,508. 50% of that is 1,754

15,826 - 1,493 - 1,754 = TLX sales down by 12,579 units (or 26.7%) vs 2015

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I'd be surprised if they don't start offering some healthy discounts to get the 2016 models off the lot - boosting sales numbers in Nov/Dec. That said - if they finish down 20 - 25% from last year that pretty bad.

F23A4

Any chance Acura stops selling the RLX stateside?

KeithL

Hell they sold the RL right to the end when they were selling like cars a few cars a month.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

What blows my mind is the units are STILL so high...like really...there are 30K units out there right now in 2015? I don't see them THAT often.
Maybe I do and just don't notice, which would be more sad.

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

RLX is not an attractive car. Has old man feel. TLX is super bland in a very competitive market. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the RLX died tomorrow. I feel like if the ILX were the TLX and you made a TLX Sport/S named something else and lose the RLX Acura could be on to something. Why not a coupe anymore. There's a reason the numbers are down. There is no spark on the showroom floor, but the SUV's continue to look better and better in my opinion

boe_d

I think of it as a GREAT thing. I think it is the sort of thing that should kick Acura in the pants so they say - we either drastically change the looks, tech and engine choices of the TLX or just get the chuck out of the market. Frankly the MMC might as well just be a new model at this point. The 4G was no joy but they stuck to their guns and lost a lot of customers. Perhaps they should learn from that fiasco and hire someone who designs nice looking cars. Frankly it is hard to find an uglier car than the TLX unless you consider the 4G TL or a UPS truck and I think if you painted the UPS truck navy blue it would be a close race with the 4G TL. Then just drop the RLX and focus on the TLX. I know that might ruffle the feathers of the 32 people who were considering buying a new RLX. They should have a 4CYL, a hybrid model based on the Accord- maybe 45MPG with 0-60 in 7 seconds (easily doable) and a 320HP S model. Update the navi/infotainment system about a decade - make the brains easy to replace and use a good screen with an option of BOTH touch and mouse interaction. None of these are radical ideas or are asking for any future tech that hasn't been available for a while. Definitely offer an advanced screen like the A4 has for the dash. Maybe do something nice like put in refrigerated cup holders a few other manufacturers offer.

wlkeel

Wow! A lot of hate there.

boe_d

It is a love hate thing. They certainly know how to build a fine accord for $25K. For $45K I expect a LOT more. I love my old TL. The 3G TL was pretty darn nice looking although far from flashy. Every time I see one on the road I think they are pretty nice looking. Every time I see a 4G (oh wait I don't...) Other than the Picasso they got designing their current vehicles I think they could do great things.

KeithL

i would disagree with some points. The TLX is not an ugly car, it is uninspiring. As for engines, I would say while a sporty engine would be great for us enthusiasts, most people could care less. Even Lexus and Toyota have gone with more aggressive styling. Acura builds a really good car and engine, but just building a really good vehicle is not what it takes now. They need to offer competitive offerings. You are correct the infotainment system is a joke and I can't think of another one that is worse. I have said this before, the materials in the TLX are no better than a loaded Kia Optima and not as good as the last TL.

Tony Pac

I must say you brought up some great points. Changing the infotainment, design, a few new material for the dash won't cost Acura millions but they can attract more people. I am not sure what Acura wants to do.

boe_d

You are certainly entitled to your opinion - we just disagree about the appearance of the 4G TL - you say uninspiring, I say fugly; po-TA-to, potahto I do think the type s (while I wouldn't want it) might get enough positive chat from enthusiasts it might have some halo on the line. I think the hybrid also might get some positive press as a semi luxury hybrid would probably get a little press for Acura - particularly if the MPG and acceleration were good. The accord hybrid is so much more desirable to me than the glacial acceleration on the Prius which is otherwise a well built and comfy car with "uninspiring" styling. Although I admit the seats in the Prius are much much more comfy than the Accord. It seems like the accord gets some advanced luxury features WAY before the Acura which seems bass ackward to me.

BEAR-AvHistory

I think the problem is Acura does not know what it wants to do. There have been a lot of fits & starts with the design & image they try to portray & what the reality is in the metal.. tag lines like "Precision Crafted Performance", "The road will never be the same", "The True Definition of Luxury. Yours" are hollow & don't really transfer any meaning with out an explanation of what the are trying to say.

Lexus "The relentless pursuit of perfection" stats a goal. BMW "The ultimate driving machine" a very specific claim or "Sheer driving pleasure" another specific claim.

AZuser

If enthusiast and most people care, then Acura definitely should offer a sporty engine.

Tony Pac

This is a great article: Acura hopes design changes boost sluggish sales | The Columbus Dispatch

boe_d

Great - another Acura concept car! They usually look pretty nice right up until they make a production model where any similarities between their concept and an production vehicle past or present or future are purely coincidental.

dzionny_dzionassi

I am waiting for this:

KeithL

you stated then TLX was ugly with only the 4G being uglier, I was making the point the TLX is not ugly. The 4G was a bit ahead of its time, today I don't find it as bad as I did in 2009. Then4G MMC was a bit better, but the TLX is nowhere close to being as ugly or revolting to most people, it is just not as attractive as the competition.

Tony Pac

Amazing!!! Can't wait to see some major changes with Acura brand. Let's stay positive!

Momyc

Yup, the red TLX concept looked hot , but the production implementation was blunt .
I'm afraid on Nov 16 we will see again nice concepts but to be honest it will let me cold if the production versions won't turn like the concepts or at least close.

boe_d

I don't mind that the concept cars have about a centimeter of clearance and the production cars are designed to drive on normal roads, I just wish any concept mirrors front end etc stay that way unless they actually improve them for the production vehicle. Frankly the zero clearance never appealed to me as my first thought is why bother putting tires on it. Hopefully they've hire some people who actually listen to consumers. Hell, it only took them about a decade of people saying the beak was ugly for them to start listening. They hired a rhinoplasty surgeon to remove about 2mm each year and their apologists would say it is much more refined each time they did that but what they should have done was just chopped the dang thing off after the first year of bad sales and complaints. I've read some good suggestions on this site but all their stubbornness is just hurting them. I don't expect them to take every idea but surely they shouldn't ignore ALL of them. I understand it might take a couple of years to implement them but a DECADE is absurd.

kurtatx

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. All the models look the same for about a year and suddenly a redesign comes in one model at a time. That being said, if Acura could settle on something attractive, maybe this problem would end itself.

AZuser

Haven't they been saying that for at least the past decade?

And the awesomely awesome TLX GT package?

Acura still in denial that there's a problem.

Tony Pac

Acura needs the following ASAP:
1. More premium interior - leather stiched dashboard, better infotainment, HUD, real wood and aluminum work
2. More aggressive design
3. Better wheels
4. Better marketing
5. SH-AWD in RDX

Not right now but would be great to bring CDX and a TLX coupe with more power and goodies. Also, bring back something like ZDX. Sport coupe.

BEAR-AvHistory

Noticed that, did you.

boe_d

I like most of what you are saying! I prefer interiors with out any aluminum accent/bezel. I always think it looks like a cheap American car from the 80's with that. I prefer a more monotone interior with some occasional walnut or other accent.

wlkeel

Maybe we'll get some idea of future interiors at this Acura Press Conference:

LA Auto Show
Nov 16 at 12:20

Acura is revealing their "Precision Crafted Cockpit"

Probably just be more concept stuff.

AZuser

You have got to be kidding.

ZDX sales were worse than what the terrible selling RLX is doing now.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha yes, that's probably because of its proportions and lack of performance.

Can't really executive that sport coupe look without having proper proportions.

But in terms of interior, the ZDX was really nice.

Tony Pac

I don't disagree with you but Acura missed on that opportunity big time. Infiniti FX doesn't sell 20K units/year either but still it's part of the lineup and people buy.

When I look at ZDX today, I must say it's a great looking car. If Acura put some more HP, suspensions, bigger wheels, and some more goodies. It would have been a success.
As far as RLX goes, it's very difficult to compete in that segment. You have MB E Class, Audi A6 and BMW 5 Series. Ihighly doubt the Japanese can compete in that segment anytime soon

AZuser

The thing is the FX (now QX70) has outsold and continues to outsell the ZDX. The most ZDX's Acura ever sold in a year was in 2010 at 4,122 units (3,259 in U.S. ; 863 in Canada). The most FX's Infiniti ever sold in a year was in 2004 at 33,282 units (30,964 in U.S. ; 2,318 in Canada).

You're now probably thinking, "Hey, that's not a fair comparison. You're looking at sales numbers from two different years."

So, let's see how many FX's Infiniti sold in 2010, the ZDX's best selling year. Infiniti sold 11,505 units (10,420 in U.S. ; 1,085 in Canada). In other words, the FX outsold the ZDX by 179% or 7,383 units.

Here's another way to look at it: Acura sold a total of 7,285 ZDX's (6,118 in U.S. ; 1,167 in Canada) from 2009 to 2015. In one single year (2013), Infiniti sold almost as many FX's compared to ZDX's with 6,981 units sold (6,380 in U.S. ; 601 in Canada).

Hell, the FX (QX70) is even outselling the RLX.

RLX vs QX70 U.S. sales

2013: 5,053 vs 6,380 (outsold RLX by 26.26% or 1,327 units)
2014: 3,413 vs 5,213 (outsold RLX by 52.74% or 1,800 units)
2015: 2,195 vs 5,737 (outsold RLX by 161.37% or 3,542 units)
2016 YTD: 1,146 vs 4,433 (outselling RLX by 286.82% or 3,287 units)

Not only does the QX70 outsell the RLX each year, but the amount as a percentage and by units gets larger each year too.

If Acura can make a case to keep the poor selling RLX around, then Infiniti can make a case to keep the better selling QX70 around. However, I'd imagine it would be very difficult to make a case to bring back the even worse selling ZDX.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I think it's been over 2 years since I've seen a ZDX on the road...which I'd notice because I like them.
That tells me all I need to know.
They're actually affordable now too!

drewba

Totally agree, the TLX interior is pretty non-descript. Too much hard plastic and the infotainment looks dated. Get rid of the dual screens and move back to more hard buttons.

Personally, I'm OK with the TLX exterior, but it is pretty conservative.

I like the TLX V6 wheels, but the 4 cylinder wheels are UGLY. It seems like a 19" option would be good too.

Agreed

Personally, I don't think that most buyers dig into details enough to know or care about the type of AWD. They just want to be able to check the AWD checkbox.

Coupes are selling even worse than sedans and the ZDX was a major flop.

Personally, I think that the TLX is trying to play in the middle ground between mainstream cars and true luxury cars and failing at both ends. Too expensive compared to mainstream cars and not luxurious enough when compared to Lexus, Audi, BMW... The feature list may say luxury, but the feel and materials can't compete with luxury cars. The V6 is a workable engine in the luxury space (could use more low-end torque), but the 4 cylinder is way down on usable power and torque when compared to luxury competitors.

I think that for Acura to truly succeed, they need to increase the quality of materials throughout, but especially the interior. A 2.0t with 220-240hp as the base engine wouldn't hurt either.

Lastly, Acura needs to find a way to inspire passion. It is difficult to quantify, but they need to find a way to get people to WANT their cars. When a prospective buyer sits in the car in a showroom or takes a test drive, they need the buyer to WANT the car. I test drove the TLX V6 twice while in the market this fall. Both times I came away thinking that it was a perfectly nice car, but nothing about it made me dream about driving it every day. I ended up spending more for an Audi A4 with fewer features because everything about the A4 just looked and felt right.

TSXV6Guy

FWIW - Acura needs to make some real decisions rather trying to patch things up. Mediocrity is the current motto. Perhaps Trump should spend a few hours at their headquarters and help them. For example:
1) Discontinue the RLX and focus on multiple variants on the remaining cars.
2) Revise the exterior design of the lineup including the grille. Even Hyundai and Kia have sexier cars than Acura.
3) Learn from past mistakes, i.e., the 4G TL and the ZDX disasters. (But they need first to acknowledge that these were mistakes)
4) The ZF transmission on the TLX V6. Address the end-user issues, (don't just provide a reason why it works that way). Or get rid of ZF. Just deal with it rather than patch it.
5) Bring the sport hybrid drivetrain to the TLX and other models.
6) Focus on the driving experience. Need to inspire "wow" when we drive the darn thing.
7) Address infotainment usability / ergonomics (but this is true for all car manufacturers... Have you tried the Lexus mouse-like-pad thingy? Grrr).

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

so, then it wouldnt be a ZDX....


i dont think it would have sold better with that stuff you mentioned added....
just look at the current line up and ask; does the current add ons sell more cars?
no.