May car sales down
06-04-2016, 11:41 AM
#41
The new Civic is a better car than the new Elantra....just saying....IMHO, and that of many reviewers. Regarding the TLX, IMHO, the 3.5 tranny, the 2016 is a somewhat improved version. While, i'm at it, the 8 speed in-house DCT is an excellent transmission and pairs nicely with the 2.4. The 2.4 TLX is...well...it's also a TLX, lest we forget. The 2016-17 ILX is a nicely loaded fun to drive car and a significant improvement over the previous models - again, the 8 speed DCT makes this a very nimble and fast 4 cylinder. Whether there is a enough market share between the Civic and other entry level luxury cars with more snob appeal is certainly an issue.
Finally, on the point about infotainment, for me the guts are the following:
1. Sound System (ELS) - still one of the best out there.
2. Climate Control - excellent, flawless, in my experience.
3. Phone system - 3 ways to quick dial - 2 by voice, 1 by frequent numbers stored and available in dash display - all work great.
Siri is a nice feature that works well
4. 2 screens - love the flexibility, graphics are clear, some are sexier...who cares?
5. Voice Recognition - works well when I need it.
6. Acura Link - use it, love it. Wish the Navi in Canada was one step voice like the US, but with Acura Link, not a big deal. I'll keep he other uniquely Canadian features.
AppleCarPlay would be great, but honestly, I only have so much time to play with things, and I prefer the sound quality of HD recorded music vs playing from my phone.
For the money, it's an excellent value. Would i add a few things like stitched leather like dash, sure, but everything costs. Thus ends my quasi Acura supporter quasi rant.
Finally, on the point about infotainment, for me the guts are the following:
1. Sound System (ELS) - still one of the best out there.
2. Climate Control - excellent, flawless, in my experience.
3. Phone system - 3 ways to quick dial - 2 by voice, 1 by frequent numbers stored and available in dash display - all work great.
Siri is a nice feature that works well
4. 2 screens - love the flexibility, graphics are clear, some are sexier...who cares?
5. Voice Recognition - works well when I need it.
6. Acura Link - use it, love it. Wish the Navi in Canada was one step voice like the US, but with Acura Link, not a big deal. I'll keep he other uniquely Canadian features.
AppleCarPlay would be great, but honestly, I only have so much time to play with things, and I prefer the sound quality of HD recorded music vs playing from my phone.
For the money, it's an excellent value. Would i add a few things like stitched leather like dash, sure, but everything costs. Thus ends my quasi Acura supporter quasi rant.
Lets get a better CPU in there as well. Even bad code is improved by just using faster and more current CPUs. I'll bet whats in their is ancient.
Buttons I cant see clearly. Menus that dont make sense. Too many steps. Acura simply has the some of the worst software people on the planet. Consumers should demand more.
They design for cost effectiveness and not for consumers.
06-04-2016, 11:42 AM
#42
06-04-2016, 11:45 AM
#43
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
that's news to me. NSX and Bugatti are on two different levels. I don't think you could option out an NSX more than 300-400k. Aren't Bugatti's in the millions? The NSX is touted as being a daily driver supercar.That's the point, it is partly PR. To bring excitement back into the brand.
06-04-2016, 12:16 PM
#44
Team Owner
^ Eric needs to lay down the crack pipe. The NSX tops out in price below 250k.
Bugatti cars start in the millions.
When Ggesq says Bugatti and the NSX are on different levels, he means there are about 46 different levels between the two.
Bugatti cars start in the millions.
When Ggesq says Bugatti and the NSX are on different levels, he means there are about 46 different levels between the two.
06-04-2016, 12:17 PM
#45
Suzuka Master
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Agree that's even if you were allowed by Bugatti to buy one. Have to keep the owner list pedigree up
Problem is these days everybody has a supercar or a near supercar halo car.
I think they have more PR value to the brands that actually deliver a high level of performance at the retail end of the business. PR is really good when it has a direct connection to reality.
Dodge has the Viper (halo) but also 700HP retail cars Challenger/Challanger
FORD has the GT (supercar) but also retail 526HP Shelby Mustang GT350R
Chevy has the Zo6 (halo) 2017 Zora ZR1 (super car) but also has retail 455HP StingRay/Camaro SS/Z28
Then reality hits:
Acura has the NSX (supercar) and the retail Acura TSX with 290HP.
My own sense of PR says you want the retail to identify with the halo. "I can't afford a VIPER but I can manage a 700HP Challanger" You don't was the halo to showcase a great shortfall in the retail product.
Problem is these days everybody has a supercar or a near supercar halo car.
I think they have more PR value to the brands that actually deliver a high level of performance at the retail end of the business. PR is really good when it has a direct connection to reality.
Dodge has the Viper (halo) but also 700HP retail cars Challenger/Challanger
FORD has the GT (supercar) but also retail 526HP Shelby Mustang GT350R
Chevy has the Zo6 (halo) 2017 Zora ZR1 (super car) but also has retail 455HP StingRay/Camaro SS/Z28
Then reality hits:
Acura has the NSX (supercar) and the retail Acura TSX with 290HP.
My own sense of PR says you want the retail to identify with the halo. "I can't afford a VIPER but I can manage a 700HP Challanger" You don't was the halo to showcase a great shortfall in the retail product.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 06-04-2016 at 12:23 PM.
06-04-2016, 12:30 PM
#46
Team Owner
Think of it this way:
You buy a shitty, run down house for 25k, in a neighborhood where the average house price is 50k, and the highest priced houses in the area are 60k.
Now you renovate the house and drop 50k into it. It's not going to sell for 75k, just because you invested that much. You now have the most expensive house in the area, but the overall neighborhood prices will dictate what your house gives for. Chances are, you won't get more than 65k.
Just because the NSX may cost eleventy billion dollars to make each one, doesn't mean the car will sell for that much. Acura has to price it along with what their rivals are going for, in order to stay competitive, even if it is potentially slightly better. It's pricing needs to be around where the R8, 911T, 570s(?), etc, are priced.
06-04-2016, 06:42 PM
#47
Not to question my learned friend, but a Honda Civic fully loaded is 1K less than the Ultimate Elantra. The Elantra has a heated steering wheel, cornering headlights and a 1" bigger touch screen. The Civic trumps it in the important areas, IMHO. To wit:
- 174 HP and 162 torque vs 147 and 132. ( Base engine is also bigger - 158 and 138); I'm assuming the Hyundai figures are actually legitimate these days
- Better fuel economy - 6.7 l/100km vs 7.4 l/100km
- Yes, Civic uses a CVT as standard in the upper model, but it is a very smooth version;
- Better suspension - Independent front strut and Independent multi-link rear vs Mcpherson strut for both.
- More active safety and driver assist technologies
- More powerful sound system and 2 more speakers
-Wi-Fi tethering and charging AND Apple Play
As for appearance, I prefer the previous Elantra. Now, we have another Ford Fusion lookalike. Both the Civic and the Elantra have nice side lines, but looks are not the reason why I would take one over the other.
Both excellent compact cars, but, IMHO, despite the prolific and somewhat smug Hyundai ads, I gotta go with the Civic. BTW, do you think the Germans and Japanese were breaking in to see how they could make more commercials driving full speed through deserts with average engines and trannies?....
I wish Hyundai would spend some of that money improving their website. In making this comparison, the Honda info is so much easier to find. BTW, I also find Acura's website is easier to navigate than a lot of it's competitors.
Finally, in returning to the main topic of this forum (TLX), everything can be better. That includes just about every car in the segment. I think Acura has addressed the programming deficiencies of the 9 speed in the 2016 3.5. The rest is simply a question of whether you prefer the advantages of a nine speed over it's disadvantages...and that will come down to the type of driving you do. For the vast majority of drivers, of which this forum is hardly representative, I suspect this is less of a burning issue. I also have no doubt that Acura will update the infotainment system in either the 2018 model.
Now if they could give me a stitched faux leather dash....well...nirvana! And a Type S for you, of course!
- 174 HP and 162 torque vs 147 and 132. ( Base engine is also bigger - 158 and 138); I'm assuming the Hyundai figures are actually legitimate these days
- Better fuel economy - 6.7 l/100km vs 7.4 l/100km
- Yes, Civic uses a CVT as standard in the upper model, but it is a very smooth version;
- Better suspension - Independent front strut and Independent multi-link rear vs Mcpherson strut for both.
- More active safety and driver assist technologies
- More powerful sound system and 2 more speakers
-Wi-Fi tethering and charging AND Apple Play
As for appearance, I prefer the previous Elantra. Now, we have another Ford Fusion lookalike. Both the Civic and the Elantra have nice side lines, but looks are not the reason why I would take one over the other.
Both excellent compact cars, but, IMHO, despite the prolific and somewhat smug Hyundai ads, I gotta go with the Civic. BTW, do you think the Germans and Japanese were breaking in to see how they could make more commercials driving full speed through deserts with average engines and trannies?....
I wish Hyundai would spend some of that money improving their website. In making this comparison, the Honda info is so much easier to find. BTW, I also find Acura's website is easier to navigate than a lot of it's competitors.
Finally, in returning to the main topic of this forum (TLX), everything can be better. That includes just about every car in the segment. I think Acura has addressed the programming deficiencies of the 9 speed in the 2016 3.5. The rest is simply a question of whether you prefer the advantages of a nine speed over it's disadvantages...and that will come down to the type of driving you do. For the vast majority of drivers, of which this forum is hardly representative, I suspect this is less of a burning issue. I also have no doubt that Acura will update the infotainment system in either the 2018 model.
Now if they could give me a stitched faux leather dash....well...nirvana! And a Type S for you, of course!
1. Expressing their opinions
2. Providing facts supporting #1
3. Not reverting to bashing or name calling
You my friend, are what this forum should be all about
06-05-2016, 10:12 AM
#48
Azine Jabroni
Halo cars in upscale brands are PR. Not sure what you mean by "decent config", by the way. Reviews seem to indicate that the NSX is comfortable and gentle ride when it needs to be but still have the get up and go necessary to make it a supercar.
06-05-2016, 10:20 AM
#49
AZ Community Team
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May 2016 sales numbers were disappointing. The market is very competitive and Acura needs to keep up with it. Acura needs do what Lexus did with their "F Sport" badge for all their lineup.
For those of you who compare Acura to Infiniti. Please guys, check Infiniti numbers, they are even more down than Acura. so, let's not go there. Infiniti is struggling as well with their sales numbers. Historically, Infiniti never beat Acura in sales number in NA.
For those of you who compare Acura to Infiniti. Please guys, check Infiniti numbers, they are even more down than Acura. so, let's not go there. Infiniti is struggling as well with their sales numbers. Historically, Infiniti never beat Acura in sales number in NA.
06-05-2016, 12:39 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2010
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BTW, I quite like the look of my Espresso interior with the metal and faux wood. I find it very comfortable pleasing, enjoyable to drive...the things many buyers want. The reality is, there are so many choices out there in the luxury and premium market segments, and so many people that buy SUVs, that it's going to be extremely difficult to sell more than 3-5K per month.
06-05-2016, 01:01 PM
#51
Azine Jabroni
May 2016 sales numbers were disappointing. The market is very competitive and Acura needs to keep up with it. Acura needs do what Lexus did with their "F Sport" badge for all their lineup.
For those of you who compare Acura to Infiniti. Please guys, check Infiniti numbers, they are even more down than Acura. so, let's not go there. Infiniti is struggling as well with their sales numbers. Historically, Infiniti never beat Acura in sales number in NA.
For those of you who compare Acura to Infiniti. Please guys, check Infiniti numbers, they are even more down than Acura. so, let's not go there. Infiniti is struggling as well with their sales numbers. Historically, Infiniti never beat Acura in sales number in NA.
06-05-2016, 06:02 PM
#53
Summer is Coming
From Left Lane News... May was a poor month for most manufacturers...
May year-over-year:
- Acura down 20.4%, 13,561
- Alfa up 10%, 44
- Audi up 1.6%, 18,728
- Bentley down 54.1%, 112
- BMW down 6.4%, 29017
- Buick down 22.1%, 15,625
- Cadillac down 16%, 12,099
- Chevrolet down 18.6%, 169,331
- Chrysler down 19%, 24,276
- Dodge down 5%, 42,837
- Fiat down 19%, 3,137
- Ford down 6.4%, 226,190
- GMC down 14.3%, 43,395
- Honda down 2.9%, 133,547
- Hyundai up 12%, 71,006
- Infiniti up 3.4%, 10,828
- Jaguar
- Jeep up 14%, 90,545
- Kia up 0.7%, 62,926
- *Lamborghini up 2.4%, 86
- Land Rover
- Lexus down 10.1%, 26,682
- Lincoln up 6.9%, 9,807
- Maserati down 29.5%, 945
- Mazda down 4.3%, 28,328
- **Mercedes-Benz down 1%, 29,299
- MINI down 21.2%, 4,595
- Mitsubishi down 5.7%, 9,025
- Nissan down 1.2%, 122,668
- Porsche up 7.3%, 4,578
- Ram flat, 43,613
- Scion up 38.6%, 6,659
- smart down 49.8%, 420
- Subaru up 1.1%, 50,083
- *Tesla up 7.1%, 2,250
- Toyota down 10.6%, 185,998
- Volkswagen down 17.2%, 28,779
- Volvo
2016 year-to-date
- Acura down 5.5%, 67,642
- Alfa down 7%, 273
- Audi up 4.2%, 78,489
- Bentley down 52.8%, 484
- BMW down 8.7%, 124,581
- Buick down 1.3%, 87,632
- Cadillac down 12.5%, 58.968
- Chevrolet down 5.4%, 825,503
- Chrysler down 19%, 112,625
- Dodge up 6%, 226,921
- Fiat down 19%, 15,191
- Ford up 3.8%, 1,068,451
- GMC down 2.8%, 211,602
- Honda up 7.1%, 585,998
- Hyundai up 1%, 306,549
- Infiniti down 0.7%, 53,920
- Jaguar
- Jeep up 16%, 384,440
- Kia up 3.5%, 265,755
- *Lamborghini up 2.4%, 430
- Land Rover
- Lexus down 5.2%, 125,785
- Lincoln up 14.7%, 44,488
- Maserati down 1.6%, 4,261
- Mazda down 9.6%, 119,166
- **Mercedes-Benz down 1.9%, 134,304
- MINI down 16%, 20,230
- Mitsubishi up 5.6%, 43,911
- Nissan up 8.2%, 603,641
- Porsche up 6.3%, 22,226
- Ram up 11%, 215,736
- Subaru up 2.1%, 232,860
- Scion up 49.5%, 31,541
- smart down 23.3%, 2,186
- *Tesla up 4.5%, 10,975
- Toyota down 1.7%, 873,758
- Volkswagen down 13%, 125,205
- Volvo
Read more: May sales: Slower month despite holiday | LeftLaneNews
May year-over-year:
- Acura down 20.4%, 13,561
- Alfa up 10%, 44
- Audi up 1.6%, 18,728
- Bentley down 54.1%, 112
- BMW down 6.4%, 29017
- Buick down 22.1%, 15,625
- Cadillac down 16%, 12,099
- Chevrolet down 18.6%, 169,331
- Chrysler down 19%, 24,276
- Dodge down 5%, 42,837
- Fiat down 19%, 3,137
- Ford down 6.4%, 226,190
- GMC down 14.3%, 43,395
- Honda down 2.9%, 133,547
- Hyundai up 12%, 71,006
- Infiniti up 3.4%, 10,828
- Jaguar
- Jeep up 14%, 90,545
- Kia up 0.7%, 62,926
- *Lamborghini up 2.4%, 86
- Land Rover
- Lexus down 10.1%, 26,682
- Lincoln up 6.9%, 9,807
- Maserati down 29.5%, 945
- Mazda down 4.3%, 28,328
- **Mercedes-Benz down 1%, 29,299
- MINI down 21.2%, 4,595
- Mitsubishi down 5.7%, 9,025
- Nissan down 1.2%, 122,668
- Porsche up 7.3%, 4,578
- Ram flat, 43,613
- Scion up 38.6%, 6,659
- smart down 49.8%, 420
- Subaru up 1.1%, 50,083
- *Tesla up 7.1%, 2,250
- Toyota down 10.6%, 185,998
- Volkswagen down 17.2%, 28,779
- Volvo
2016 year-to-date
- Acura down 5.5%, 67,642
- Alfa down 7%, 273
- Audi up 4.2%, 78,489
- Bentley down 52.8%, 484
- BMW down 8.7%, 124,581
- Buick down 1.3%, 87,632
- Cadillac down 12.5%, 58.968
- Chevrolet down 5.4%, 825,503
- Chrysler down 19%, 112,625
- Dodge up 6%, 226,921
- Fiat down 19%, 15,191
- Ford up 3.8%, 1,068,451
- GMC down 2.8%, 211,602
- Honda up 7.1%, 585,998
- Hyundai up 1%, 306,549
- Infiniti down 0.7%, 53,920
- Jaguar
- Jeep up 16%, 384,440
- Kia up 3.5%, 265,755
- *Lamborghini up 2.4%, 430
- Land Rover
- Lexus down 5.2%, 125,785
- Lincoln up 14.7%, 44,488
- Maserati down 1.6%, 4,261
- Mazda down 9.6%, 119,166
- **Mercedes-Benz down 1.9%, 134,304
- MINI down 16%, 20,230
- Mitsubishi up 5.6%, 43,911
- Nissan up 8.2%, 603,641
- Porsche up 6.3%, 22,226
- Ram up 11%, 215,736
- Subaru up 2.1%, 232,860
- Scion up 49.5%, 31,541
- smart down 23.3%, 2,186
- *Tesla up 4.5%, 10,975
- Toyota down 1.7%, 873,758
- Volkswagen down 13%, 125,205
- Volvo
Read more: May sales: Slower month despite holiday | LeftLaneNews
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06-08-2016, 05:15 PM
#54
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
And the new 2017 Fusion Sport is looking good, standard AWD and that pothole feature is cool if you find and watch the feature, I can see that as a seller in big cities with crappy roads.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
06-09-2016, 03:46 AM
#55
And the new 2017 Fusion Sport is looking good, standard AWD and that pothole feature is cool if you find and watch the feature, I can see that as a seller in big cities with crappy roads.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
.....expect soon for the Acura defense brigade to show up, how you dare to compare a Ford to an Acura, people will never cross shop these two (funny how some Acura fans can actually be badge snobs) and so on.....
06-09-2016, 03:49 AM
#56
Agree that's even if you were allowed by Bugatti to buy one. Have to keep the owner list pedigree up
Problem is these days everybody has a supercar or a near supercar halo car.
I think they have more PR value to the brands that actually deliver a high level of performance at the retail end of the business. PR is really good when it has a direct connection to reality.
Dodge has the Viper (halo) but also 700HP retail cars Challenger/Challanger
FORD has the GT (supercar) but also retail 526HP Shelby Mustang GT350R
Chevy has the Zo6 (halo) 2017 Zora ZR1 (super car) but also has retail 455HP StingRay/Camaro SS/Z28
Then reality hits:
Acura has the NSX (supercar) and the retail Acura TSX with 290HP.
My own sense of PR says you want the retail to identify with the halo. "I can't afford a VIPER but I can manage a 700HP Challanger" You don't was the halo to showcase a great shortfall in the retail product.
Problem is these days everybody has a supercar or a near supercar halo car.
I think they have more PR value to the brands that actually deliver a high level of performance at the retail end of the business. PR is really good when it has a direct connection to reality.
Dodge has the Viper (halo) but also 700HP retail cars Challenger/Challanger
FORD has the GT (supercar) but also retail 526HP Shelby Mustang GT350R
Chevy has the Zo6 (halo) 2017 Zora ZR1 (super car) but also has retail 455HP StingRay/Camaro SS/Z28
Then reality hits:
Acura has the NSX (supercar) and the retail Acura TSX with 290HP.
My own sense of PR says you want the retail to identify with the halo. "I can't afford a VIPER but I can manage a 700HP Challanger" You don't was the halo to showcase a great shortfall in the retail product.
Totally agree...halo cars still need exciting products for the masses within a brand.
06-09-2016, 11:48 AM
#57
You'll Never Walk Alone
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And the new 2017 Fusion Sport is looking good, standard AWD and that pothole feature is cool if you find and watch the feature, I can see that as a seller in big cities with crappy roads.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
The 2017 Fusion V6 Sport has so many thrilling features you just may have to be late for dinner.
• New 2.7L turbocharged EcoBoost® V6 engine
• 325 hp/380 lb.-ft of torque*
• Standard AWD
• Continuously controlled damping (CCD): the 2017 Fusion uses an advanced suite of sensors that constantly monitor the vehicle’s suspension motion, body movement, steering and braking. The algorithm uses data from these sensors to adjust the suspension damping in milliseconds to help keep the body of the vehicle quiet and smoothly on track. The system also allows users to choose the ride, with comfort, normal or sport modes
• Fusion has a special pothole defense system mechanism within its standard CCD suspension, which can provide some protection against jarring impact and costly wheel and tire repairs from the dreaded highway pitfalls.
I'd take the power figures from Ford with a grain of salt though. In a lot of Ford models, the actual acceleration numbers don't seem to back the advertised power figures. This is evident from the likes of Focus ST, Fusion Titanium, Focus RS, Mustang EcoBoost, etc.
To back up what I said above, here are some data:
STI vs Focus RS vs Golf R (all 6-speed manual)
2016 Ford Focus RS vs. 2015 Subaru WRX STI, 2016 Volkswagen Golf R: Final Scoring, Performance Data, and Complete Specs
Power:
STI: 305hp/290lbft
Golf R: 292hp/280lbft
Focus RS: 350hp/350lbft
Weight:
STI: 3456lb
Golf R: 3292lb
Focus RS: 3459lb
Power to weight ratio:
STI: 3456lb
Golf R: 3292lb
Focus RS: 3459lb
0-60mph:
STI: 11.3lb/hp
Golf R: 11.3lb/hp
Focus RS: 9.9lb/hp
0-100mph:
STI: 12.0s
Golf R: 11.8s
Focus RS: 12.2s
1/4mile:
STI: 13.4@104mph
Golf R: 13.4@105mph
Focus RS: 13.6@105mph
The Focus RS has a noticeably better power to weight ratio than the STI and Golf R. Yet, the straight line performance of all these cars are very similar.
While the Fusion Sport has 30lbft more torque than the Focus RS, it has 25hp less. Also, knowing that the previous Fusion Sport with AWD and a NA V6 was at 3886lb, chances are, the new Fusion Sport will be right around 4000lb, or some 500lb more than the Focus RS.
25hp less, and 500lb more to carry. I'm interested to know exactly how fast the Fusion Sport will be. At this moment, I'm not sure if it will be noticeably faster than a Camry V6, Altima V6, or Accord V6 to be honest. With those cars, we know that they can do the 1/4 mile in low 14's at over 100mph.
For comparison, Ford Taurus SHO with the bigger 3.5L V6 Turbo engine with 365hp and 4358lb does the 1/4 mile in 13.8s@102mph:
2013 Ford Taurus SHO Instrumented Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
With the Fusion down 40hp, but also may be 300-400lb lighter, I'd think it's around that territory.
As for AWD, I wonder what kind of AWD system it has. Is it like a real-time system like the old CR-V, a Subaru style, quattro-like, or active torque vectoring one?
And for the $35k starting price range, I think there's other competition such as the Dodge Charger R/T (370hp and 1/4 mile in 13.6@106mph) which has a proper RWD chassis.
2017 Ford Fusion Sport earns its badge with 380 lb-ft of torque - Autoblog
For $34k, would you take a Fusion Sport, or a BMW 320i?
The following 3 users liked this post by Stew4HD:
06-09-2016, 02:49 PM
#59
It has been done quite few times before when me and someone else compared the TLX to cars with non premium badges...is not like it did not happen before....
Granted, is not a TLX problem only, many mainstream cars are becoming very very good indeed and the rationale for shelling extra dollars for a "premium" brand is becoming more and more difficult to justify IMHO.
Last edited by saturno_v; 06-09-2016 at 02:54 PM.
06-09-2016, 07:00 PM
#60
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
If the car does what I want, has what I want and looks good to me then I will cross shop it, badge only plays a little in my approach.
The following users liked this post:
Stew4HD (06-10-2016)
06-10-2016, 05:41 AM
#62
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
I loved the tech in my A6, far better than Acura. The MMI, and all the nanny tech was better implemented. Audi has by far the best Blind Spot implementation I have seen to date, far more usable than Acura and many others. Since the A4 is new I figure it will take then 2 MYs to get the quirks worked out then it should be a killer car, the S4 looks sweet, even the A5.
06-12-2016, 07:48 PM
#64
Been a lot of discussion that Apple CarPlay in particular isn't quite ready for primetime.
Also, and this is a generalization, technology like that is considered more important for younger buyers. Generally people under 25 don't buy $45,000 3-row SUVs or $40,000 luxury sedans so getting that kind of connectedness into Acura's isn't as important as it is for the Civic or the Fit or the HR-V. The ILX...yeah it probably needs it but the FMC for that vehicle is coming fairly soon and the MMC was a year too early to get it I think.
Plus older people are, again generally, less likely to be OK with technology not working some times so if CarPlay and Android Auto present issues it's going to make IQS and satisfaction ratings all the worse.
It is a bit backwards - generally you think of the nicest cars getting the newest technology first - but in this case it's more about the demographics and what the perception is around those demographics.
I DO agree that the systems need to be updated across the board - and Acura has hinted strongly at a whole new interface with the Precision Concept - I also think that Acura shouldn't rush something into their cars just to have something new. The systems work well enough now and, until something revelatory in nature is ready and locked down...if they rush something out it, again, just risks causing more headaches and lower satisfaction.
Also, and this is a generalization, technology like that is considered more important for younger buyers. Generally people under 25 don't buy $45,000 3-row SUVs or $40,000 luxury sedans so getting that kind of connectedness into Acura's isn't as important as it is for the Civic or the Fit or the HR-V. The ILX...yeah it probably needs it but the FMC for that vehicle is coming fairly soon and the MMC was a year too early to get it I think.
Plus older people are, again generally, less likely to be OK with technology not working some times so if CarPlay and Android Auto present issues it's going to make IQS and satisfaction ratings all the worse.
It is a bit backwards - generally you think of the nicest cars getting the newest technology first - but in this case it's more about the demographics and what the perception is around those demographics.
I DO agree that the systems need to be updated across the board - and Acura has hinted strongly at a whole new interface with the Precision Concept - I also think that Acura shouldn't rush something into their cars just to have something new. The systems work well enough now and, until something revelatory in nature is ready and locked down...if they rush something out it, again, just risks causing more headaches and lower satisfaction.
06-12-2016, 08:01 PM
#66
The 2017 Audi A4 looks NICE.... Android Auto and Apple Car Play plus much more...first in its class. That could have EASILY been Acura TLX since the 2016 TLX was released AFTER the 2016 Accord. Acura better STEP it up!!
06-12-2016, 10:22 PM
#67
Null and proud of it
KeithL is well respected member of this site. I follow most of his knowledge through his post. I don't know a bigger Acura fan. Even when KeithL drove his Audi he still chimed in hoping for the next best Acura sedan. Now that he owns the TLX, I think he has every right to share his opinions. To me, its seems KeithL is a bit underwhelmed with his TLX which does happen with Acura products from time to time. My 2002 with the tranny issues was one of them. Yes the car is selling well. Is it the hit that everyone was looking for in the 3G? I don't think so. Yes the overall sedan market is sagging due to SUV sales. I'm still in my my 2013 4gen SH-AWD. I like the fact that I can press the gas pedal and get downshift anytime I need it without having to be in Sports mode or Sports + to pass an 18 wheeler. That was my personal opinion. I'm speaking on the 6 cylinder. I have not driven the 4 cylinder. I'm an Acura fan as well and the TLX at least the 1gen(tlx) or 5gen (tl) will be the first gen I skip.
The TLX is more of a TSX in a way, sized like an Accord, the majority seller has the TSX engine...
It's not a gen 5 TL, it's just a TLX, and I'm not in love with it either...
Other than that, and the tranny issues, I'm sure is a good deal though, but I'd rather an ILX...
06-12-2016, 10:30 PM
#68
Summer is Coming
Buyers under 25 maybe not, but buyers 25-35 are the younger crop of millenials and can afford ILX, TLX, and RDX. They VERY MUCH care about Android Auto, Apple Carplay, Garmin GPS, and full Acurawatch suite. They like a good value and Technology. The 3G TL Navi/Texh especially the 2007-2008 was exactly that for its time. The TLX not so much. The kicker is that this has ALREADY been implemented in Honda for a year already. They have the pieces, put it together. Putting Android Auto/Carplay, etc in the 2017 will get a surge of millenial buyers holding out for this very reason.
Yes it is a nice car, but similarly equipped to a TLX it is many thousands more so I expect it to be better. I priced one out to be roughly like my Advance and it was over $9K more than I paid. So at that price range many other cars come into play.
06-13-2016, 04:03 PM
#69
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
The TLX is more of a TSX in a way, sized like an Accord, the majority seller has the TSX engine...
It's not a gen 5 TL, it's just a TLX, and I'm not in love with it either...
Other than that, and the tranny issues, I'm sure is a good deal though, but I'd rather an ILX...
It's not a gen 5 TL, it's just a TLX, and I'm not in love with it either...
Other than that, and the tranny issues, I'm sure is a good deal though, but I'd rather an ILX...
06-14-2016, 08:38 AM
#70
Buyers under 25 maybe not, but buyers 25-35 are the younger crop of millenials and can afford ILX, TLX, and RDX. They VERY MUCH care about Android Auto, Apple Carplay, Garmin GPS, and full Acurawatch suite. They like a good value and Technology. The 3G TL Navi/Texh especially the 2007-2008 was exactly that for its time. The TLX not so much. The kicker is that this has ALREADY been implemented in Honda for a year already. They have the pieces, put it together. Putting Android Auto/Carplay, etc in the 2017 will get a surge of millenial buyers holding out for this very reason.
So...for Acura to put the same system in the 2017 TLX as they did in the 2016 Accord is just...it's just a bad idea. Acura needs a generational leap forward and not a sideways step into more warmed-over Honda technology. When the Precision Concept debuted they discussed a whole new interface for the cars in the future. I don't know when that future is...but the Precision Concept had one big center screen and was controlled by a console mounted controller and Dave Marek said that they want to start implementing whatever they can from the Precision Concept ASAP. The MDX MMC got some stuff: real wood, the grille - but many many other things, interior/exterior design and interior technology being key among them, are much better suited to an all-new vehicle and not an MMC. The new CDX in China basically got the NSX interior - but that could easily be modified to accommodate a bigger center screen and a center controller.
The 2017 MDX also apparently not getting any new interior technology would seem to indicate that Acura doesn't want to just put the system from the Accord into it's cars where it doesn't really fit. The new system really only needs one screen and it's OK on the Accord which still has 2 screens but it would seem forced and almost...amateurish in the MDX/TLX compared to what the new A4 and XC90 bring to the table. Acura needs to execute better than that if they want to compete with those vehicles on every level.
And there are already lease deals on the new A4...a 2017 Premium Quattro is $399 a month right now in my area. That's a $40,000 car with AWD that's just as fast, handles quite well, and is a lot nicer on the inside than the TLX SHAWD V6 is.
The next 3 years are going to be interesting for Acura. By MY 2020 every single Acura should be completely new. Some cars will wait longer than others for new stuff just because that's the way it goes, but I've always said that Acura has to take full advantage of their MMC/FMC updates. The ILX and RDX did pretty well there, the MDX went even farther...and I expect that the TLX MMC in MY2018 will be the biggest Acura has ever done.
And the 2018 TLX could be a car that not only gets reworked outside but also gets reworked heavily inside as well. I don't think Acura wants to wait until the TLX FMC in MY2020 for that car to get all-new interior tech - but I also really do believe that they don't want to just shove whatever in there so they can say it's "new". The RDX and ILX are due for an FMC in MY2018...so they can get all-new interior tech then alongside the TLX. Which, as AcuraGuy2016 correctly points out, are the important models for interior tech because of demographics.
07-01-2016, 03:30 PM
#72
Looks like June was a tough month all around
June 2016 vs June 2015
TLX = 2,812 (down 1,174 or 29.45% vs 3,986 last June)
Audi A4 = 2,936 (down 176 or 5.66% vs 3,112 last June)
BMW 3 series = 6,819 (down 72 or 1.04% vs 6,891 last June)
BMW 4 series = 3,184 (down 3,441 or 51.94% vs 6,625 last June)
Buick LaCrosse = 1,488 (down 1,484 or 49.93% vs 2,972 last June)
Cadillac ATS = 1,880 (down 331 or 14.97% vs 2,211 last June)
Infiniti Q50 = 2,349 (down 1,121 or 32.31% vs 3,470 last June)
Infiniti Q60 = 79 (down 287 or 78.42% vs 366 last June)
Lexus IS = 2,748 (down 1,073 or 28.08% vs 3,821 last June)
Lexus ES = 5,060 (up 318 or 6.71% vs 4,742 last June)
Mercedes C Class = 6,867 (down 1,449 or 17.42% vs 8,316 last June)
Nissan Maximia = 4,923 (up 886 or 21.95% vs 4,037 last June)
June 2016 vs June 2015
TLX = 2,812 (down 1,174 or 29.45% vs 3,986 last June)
Audi A4 = 2,936 (down 176 or 5.66% vs 3,112 last June)
BMW 3 series = 6,819 (down 72 or 1.04% vs 6,891 last June)
BMW 4 series = 3,184 (down 3,441 or 51.94% vs 6,625 last June)
Buick LaCrosse = 1,488 (down 1,484 or 49.93% vs 2,972 last June)
Cadillac ATS = 1,880 (down 331 or 14.97% vs 2,211 last June)
Infiniti Q50 = 2,349 (down 1,121 or 32.31% vs 3,470 last June)
Infiniti Q60 = 79 (down 287 or 78.42% vs 366 last June)
Lexus IS = 2,748 (down 1,073 or 28.08% vs 3,821 last June)
Lexus ES = 5,060 (up 318 or 6.71% vs 4,742 last June)
Mercedes C Class = 6,867 (down 1,449 or 17.42% vs 8,316 last June)
Nissan Maximia = 4,923 (up 886 or 21.95% vs 4,037 last June)
07-03-2016, 07:47 AM
#74
Racer
The new A4 is getting great reviews, and even though I haven't even seen one, I'm getting interested.
Perhaps some buyers don't want the potential headaches of a new model?
07-04-2016, 12:31 AM
#76
2G TLX-S
The Audi engineers are all geniuses. Only they can design their Audi products with such a precise service life (~4 years).
07-04-2016, 02:04 AM
#77
Summer is Coming
"This is the first major problem I heard of, but I had bad luck with mine too:
-Alignment off, pulls to the left
-Right headlight failed on day 1 and threw 3-4 errors (entire headlight ended up needing to be replaced)
-Driver side interior door handle catches
-Rear license plate screw jammed, then fell off (still unfixed)
-Not sure if this is an actual issue yet, but the turn signal clicking, same issue as described here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...clicking-noise
Bought the car about 14 days ago, dealer had it for 10 days, they said cause low part availability. I like the car, but never had more than 1 issue in the other 4 new cars I bought, hoping I won't find more."
07-05-2016, 06:55 PM
#78
Safety Car
Definitely not. I had a 2004 TL, and a 2007 TL-S, and a 2012 TL SH-AWD and will say my favorite was the 4th gen 2012 model. The newest 2015 has gotten much cheaper and has issues again with transmissions. Saying it is the successor to my 2004/2007 made me laugh.
07-06-2016, 04:09 PM
#79
Banned
Sorry, but your 2012 was the heresy (and an abomination in my book). The current TLX is a fix of the 2009-2014 mistake. Stop the madness about the transmission ... my 2016 9-sp. is just fine.
07-06-2016, 08:12 PM
#80
Burning Brakes
LOL, you must be joking, because TLX is a joke.. Look, how cheap it is compared to TL.
Took 2016 TLX sh-awd as a loaner for few days. materials not much better than accords. It drove ok, but it just screamed "i am cheap".
Same thing goes with mdx, it is just low cost. All Acura products in this Acura generation was developed during recession and there is nothing they can offer to me.... Thats why I am in market for 2014 TL. Because what they have on a show floor now, is a joke.