SilverJ

Yeah they are advised to lie and deny Im sure. I've had just about everyone at Acura dealerships acknowledge the issues with the TLX, sales managers, sales people, service managers, part managers. Of course this is after it was very clear I wasn't a potential buyer.
Oh and BTW the car I test drove was a six cylinder that had all the surging and shifting issues. So apparently BOTH transmissions have issues.

BEAR-AvHistory

My trans oil got changed when they replaced 3rd & reverse gears along with all the normal (bearings, seals, etc) rebuild parts. Honda developed a kit to service the TSB after denying the problem, hard shifting & popping out of 3rd, existed for years.

Threat of a class action suit like the one that ate their lunch on the AT's finally broke the log jam.

Lot of contemporaneous accounts in the 2G & 3G forums.

Rocket_man

I have no problem with this lawsuit. I think the $5M number is just so Acura would take it seriously. Otherwise Acura would just blow it off. Clearly both transmissions have issues. Sure not every car has the problem, but from the number of Acurazine users reporting issues (some worse than others) it seems to me this is more widespread than a few unrelated failures.

I think this is Karma just catching up to Acura. For every service manager, or customer rep that has said 'that is normal behavior for that car' as an excuse not to fix a known problem. Whether it is transmissions, or struts, it is catching up to them.

As one of those Honda owners that had a bad transmission, I'm not going to go through that again (they did not fix mine, I ate it). It is the only thing keeping me away from the TLX. I'm sure they can fix these problems, but they never should have released these cars with these problems in the first place. We all know the TLX release was delayed and there was a lot of speculation that they were (in part) working on the shift programming. But they didn't get it right, and instead sent it out the door anyway.

Once they fix these problems I may be a buyer. In the mean time I'm attracted to the 2016 RDX Advance in part due to the proven 6 speed transmission. I want my next Acura to last as long as my current Acura - 8 years, no problems and still going strong.

So this lawsuit will get Acura some bad press, maybe hurt sales, but maybe will help Acura wake up and put quality back up high on their priority list. It certainly doesn't seem to be very high recently.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

isnt this why ITO stepped down!?


because of poor quality control

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Indeed. Imagine if they told the truth: "Why yes Mr. Prospect - some cars do seem to be experiencing some issues with the transmission!"

Then imagine what would happen when people buy the car and find out later that Aura was aware of issues but nobody told them about it! You would have lawsuits (they KNEW about the issue but didn't notify me and sold me the car anyways) out the wazoo!

Also - one needs to pay attention to the language used. "That's normal behaviour for the car" doesn't mean it's the *intended* behaviour - it just means that most of them behave that way!

No sir - I propose this is Standard Operating Procedure for all auto manufacturers. It's crazy to image a world with honest salespeople - almost as crazy to imagine pigs flying or Harper Lee publishing a new book!!

Stew4HD

I test drove probably a dozen TLX V6's on the run up to my purchase since I had a lot of time between ordering and delivery. Not one time did I experience the surging issue. The somewhat hard shifts, sure and the sluggish acceleration. It was during those test drives that I figured out what to expect and how to drive the car. I have no answer to the reason why some cars have this issue and not others.

What is normal car behavior?

Yikes

Seconded.

Honda A/Ts were actually very reliable (although still slush boxes) up until around '98, and then their transmission problems began. But before then, their A/T was usually a pretty solid choice as far as reliability is concerned.

Honda M/Ts probably are the best in the business. Their reliability is stellar and the units require next to no service during their useful life. (Except for obvious things like clutch replacements, ect.) In fact the only exception to this that I can think of is sometimes RSXs were known to have syncro problems, but the GM Friction modified fluid would usually cure that up in no time.

Unfortunately when fuel economy became such an important design factor, the M/T got the chopping block because of how good A/Ts are getting these days. A/Ts might be becoming faster and more efficient than the manual once was, but the M/T is still far more reliable.

SilverJ

Its an automatic transmission, there really is no "how to drive the car". If you know how to drive, you know how to drive the car.
There shouldn't be any special handling required. Get in car, step on gas. Done.
As far as what is normal behavior ? No surging, hard shifts and slipping into drive when in park would be a start.

SilverJ

Well said. Its very sad that the best manual transmission maker in the business has all but stopped making manual transmissions.

2012wagon

^^

As a long time owner of manual trans cars, and a huge supporter of them, I am glad I can still get:

Honda Fit
Honda Civic
Honda Accord

All in two door/4 door, 4 cyl/v6 configurations with a 3 pedal.

The Accord Sport manaul trans is excellent. Of course it doesn't have leather and moonroof like TLX, but its a pretty solid ride.

Ken1997TL

I wish the sedan V6 could be ordered with a manual

Though I like the coupe's looks

2012wagon

Agreed. Ideally I would get the v6 sedan, with moonroof. Too bad that isn't available.

If the Accord Sport manual sedan had a sunroof (must have for me), I wouldn't be driving a TSX wagon today

weather

^^ I think that options exists in Canada.

2012wagon

All good things are in Canada

mapleloaf

And yet I can't count over the years how many Honda/Acura reviews I've read that praised the smooth shifting auto tranny, on numerous models. It really is difficult to separate fact from hysteria these days, in any area.

For example, the 9 speed has 6 very smooth shifts, and it's only the first two that are noticeable. Yet from time to time comments and reviews review to the rough shifting 9 speed.

Stew4HD

As with most anything these days, people focus on the negative things and ignore or just plain wave-off the positive.

Those of us with no transmission issues are labeled as "one-offs", "lucky", "ignoring the problem", etc. or just ignored.

It sure seems that many jumping on the "Honda's Transmissions Suck" are non TLX owners and have been detractors from the start.

@SilverJ, do you not recognize a rhetorical question when you see it? My "normal operation" question was in regards to what a service person says when you bring the car in with issues.

SilverJ

Still defending your car to a fault I see
OK you work as an Engineer. If you put out a product or piece of software or whatever with bugs in it and it affects 10% of your customer base. And your boss says to you "Stew WTF ?! Why didn't you spot this problem ? Do you say, you know, [Stews boss name], 90% of the customers are happy, those other 10% are probably just making it up or do you apologize for your oversight and fix the issue ?

And who is going to complain about a perfectly good working car ?
Of course people complain when something goes wrong. Duh.

The issue here is because its the transmission ! And its from a company that lost millions if not BILLIONS because they had to do a massive recall in the last 15 years because of guess what ? The Transmission.

The Transmission problems are real. Just like they were 10 years ago. You ARE "lucky" if you don't have the problem. Having said that, I am sure the majority of the TLX's don't have this issue. But there IS an issue. There wouldn't be a lawsuit otherwise and there wouldn't be so much negative press and owners on this board complaining about it if it didn't exist.

Not sure what type of engineering your in, but when your dealing with public safety, if ONE percent of these cars has an issue, then in the words of Joe Biden "Its a big F^$%^ing deal! "
So yeah, you kind of are ignoring the problem and basically saying, "gee, I don't have the problem, and I really like my car, so everyone else must be making s*** up because they don't like the TLX".

Stew4HD

Stating my car has no problems and I have no complaints = defending to a fault? Well Boo F%*king Hoo!

All this drivel coming from you, a 4G fanboi! Seriously? You have made it a mission to denounce, hate on, find flaws with, etc. the TLX since it's arrival. Why? Because it threatens your 4g love? Because the TLX is an upgrade to the 4G and you can't stand that? You have been defending the 4G to a fault! On and on. Throwing stones/glass houses.

I do not believe for one minute you test drove the TLX and had all those issues (shift problems and surging), I call complete BS! I think you are just jumping on the bandwagon, which has been your MOD all along. You are now feigning this deep sympathy for those that do have problems with their transmission. You care so much!

So no, I am not ignoring the problem. Why am I supposed to cry like a bitch because my car is fine but others have problems? Who the hell are you to tell me I need be more sympathetic? Some people need to put on their grown-up pants and stop making everything about them.

As to the rest of your tirade.. zzzzz!

2012wagon

Suppose its never too early to grab some popcorn

Quandry

Depends if the show just beginning or if the credit rolling. Oh, oh, this is not a show but a ringside event. Ante up and place you bets here.

2012wagon

Who needs Manny vs Floyd, when you got 4GTL Vs TLX

SilverJ

Well I guess we will agree to disagree eh ?. This is a discussion forum, last I checked joining a discussion isn't "jumping on the bandwagon".
I'm not really a fanboi whatever the hell that is of one car. I've owned many Acuras and am a fan of all of them. The 5G has some things I like, some things I don't. I'm commenting on a lawsuit against the manufacturer of a car that I follow. And yes I follow it because if some things about it changed, I may own one, one day, because there are definitely some things I like a lot.
The jumpy transmission isn't one of them.

But if you want to go on believing all complaints and lawsuits against a car you happen to own is a big "fanboi" conspiracy theory or some kind of mass hysteria generated by someone other than people having issues with their cars they shelled out 40k for, have at it.

Stew4HD

So, there you go again, running off on a pure perpendicular tangent. You went from me defending the TLX to now where I think the transmission problem people are is some big conspiracy, which is pretty funny, actually. I await your next exaggeration with baited breath.

You jumped on the (TLX transmission issue) bandwagon when you made up the part about the TLX you drove had shifting and surging issues. Trying to garner a kinship or what? That is just too much of a coincidence to be true, especially with your track record here in the TLX area. If you hadn't been such a troll all along, it would have been believed without question. I have no doubts that many people are having big issues and I have stated as such many times.. but hey, just ignore that, okay, it doesn't fit your agenda.

Also, It's nice to see that you have softened your tone about the 5G and now consider buying one. Looking at your thread in the 4g section (Would you buy a 5G or wait for a 6G?) makes me think you feel differently. Mind you, you have every right to like or dislike anything, but that isn't the issue here, is it?

And there I fed the troll yet again. There is no agreeing to disagree since we haven't disagreed on a real topic, you made up crap and made it personal, I responded.

Now if you have a real topic that you'd like to discuss, feel free to bring it up. Me, I am just going to sit back and wait for Acura to come up with a fix for this mess, just as they did with every other transmission issue in the past.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Chet, take it away. *click*

jeremyw

We as Acura customers, let's stop pointing fingers to each other and stay objective. I understand that sometimes miscommunication can cause some anger. But we should focus on the real problem here: Acura should have made a good quality car that is up to our expectations. But Acura has not with the latest TLX due to the transmission issues. I think Acura should compensate the TLX owners who are affected. After several dealership visits to fix the problems with no success, I bet most of us have become tired and run out of patience. Perhaps one solution Acura can do is to buy back the TLXs that have documented repair history for the transmission problems.

SilverJ

Not really sure how I made it personal. Other than drawing an engineering parallel. And my thread in the 4G forum, I said the exact same thing in that thread I said here at the end of my first statement of that thread.
"Now of course if they fix a lot of the things I have issues with, maybe 4-5 years from now I would get one."
https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-...ait-6g-926869/

Look man, you can believe what you want. I test drove the 5G TLX, it shifted like crap and surged like a mofo. I couldn't WAIT to get out of that car because to be honest, it didn't feel safe.
Now I doubt EVERY TLX is like that, man I hope not. But that was MY experience. And obviously I'm not alone.
You like your car, I get it, , and don't have these issues. And that is awesome....FOR YOU.
Others dont have the same experience.

Just like some 4G owners have issues with the car burning too much oil.
I personally haven't seen that issue, but Im not going to go on to some thread where people are having the oil issue and insinuate that they aren't being honest or that they are there to downgrade the 4G because they like some other car. Kind of illogical isn't it ?

2012wagon

Have you started a Lemon Law claim? BMW bought my 02 Mini Cooper S, after it had software issues which would cause the car to not accelerate as I requested it to. There was a significant delay in pressing the accelerator and the car surging forward. After many dealership visits, and a test drive with Regional manager, it was bought back.

Stew4HD

Derp, you chose to draw the conclusion that I was insinuating this or that.. that.. and you called me out directly.. I'd call that making it personal but since you do this all the time, you don't see it *shrug*

I would think so! I would pursue it if I was Jeremy! he's had too many problems with his new car. Force Acura to make it right

SilverJ

Hmm, wonder how I came to that conclusion.

Stew4HD

It really is all about you, isn't it?

Calling you out on your test drive lie and you turn it into that?

Keep on trolling, troll.

hand-filer

Hate to burst your bubble. The new RDX comes with the 9 speed transmission.
2016 Acura RDX arrives with freshened styling, powertrain enhancements

Colin

^^ Autoblog is wrong. The RDX continues with the port injected engine (revised) and the 6AT.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Nice list. But you forgot the 3rd generation TL 04-06. Many want to deny it, including Acura, but it is a known problem transmission. Just had mine rebuilt a couple weeks ago after a whole year of headaches.

I was talking about possible TLX tranny problems a year ago before the the car even came out. Not 1% surprised. Why not make a 10 speed automatic now?

Build a reliable transmission Honda, shock me.

2012wagon

^^
Does Honda build the transmission or they buy it from supplier ZF?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

except that the 9speed is not acura's own.....


the 8DCT is made in house from Honda...
the 9 speed automatic is sourced from ZF

weather

^^ ...and it appears that the ZF partnership is for a limited time while Acura develop their own in-house tranny for the V6

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

The 04-06 TL is Acura's own transmission. They couldn't build a 5 speed right. I didn't research all those trannies listed but from what I know most of them are Honda's own.

So if they are now ZF problem solved right? I guess we don't need this thread.

The TLX I test drove was buttery smooth for the most part. But then it did some strange jerking around/hesitation a couple times. Yep enough to call it a deal breaker for me.

And yes there are other cars out there with problem transmissions sourced from ZF etc. It's not enough to just blame ZF. So while some trannies on some Honda/Acura products might be manufactured here and there, if you want to get technical, the blame is still on Honda/Acura. They put the car together as a whole. Their engineers specify everything. They do testing, durability, etc. on it. Why is it they can get the rest of the car pretty well sorted out but not this? It's been a lingering problem and I find it the weak link on an otherwise pretty strong chain for their reputation.

2012wagon

^^
So essentially the transmission they make are problematic, and the transmission supplied to them from ZF are also problematic?

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Well if the bottom-line is a problematic transmission, ZF or whoever, Acura ends up with the bad rep. Last I checked the emblem on the car is Acura not ZF. And obviously the tranny is bolted to the car; so let's not treat them as separate entities.

Talk to any knowledgeable mechanic about Honda V6s and their relation to tranny issues. They will tell you stories, it's nothing new to them. It doesn't seem like Honda/Acura are all that concerned because they have done a great job of convincing the overwhelming majority of people that Hondas and Acuras to be "bulletproof". Sure if you are the type to run your car to $50k and sell, you'd probably never see car problems. Even a 7 series or an Audi is going to be "bulletproof" to you too.

I think it is reasonable for a tranny to last at least 100k. On these older models they have not fared well. Let's see how the TLX fares. I bought a late model TL because I assumed they were smart enough to sort things out at that stage given some bad history. As it turns out, nope. So I for one won't buy into the risk even though it is 2015.

vbx

Yep! Their manual transmission is one of the smoothest I've driven. Sad to see they are slowing phasing it out it most of their lineups.

And I hope the guy wins. Only way these greedy corporation will learn. And maybe Acura will phase out these crappy transmission and bring back the manual.

Would have avoided all this. "Customer, My car shifts roughly". - Not our fault you can't drive a stick. Go buy a Prius. ~ Acura

fsttyms1

I highly doubt there is anything mechanically flawed with the ZF, What most likely is the issue is nothing more than programming. ZF doesnt send the trans out with programming(that i know of). That is up to the manufacturer using it, to tailor it the way they want, for the vehicle and type of driving expected for the vehicle. Maybe it will require a different type of fluid along with programming to get it to operate in the way that the majority of drivers will accept????