pdpgps

I've hit the mileage limit on my 2015 3.5L w/Tech lease, and I'm thinking of upgrading to the 2016 SH-AWD Advance (yes literally getting the same car with just a few more bells and whistles). My local dealership has offered me:

-$2k down + 1st month payment
-$674/monthly payment

Is this a good deal? Are you guys getting more attractive rates?

mondster

Are you rolling any negative equity on the new lease? Hard to tell if its a good deal without seeing the numbers. I believe there is a 2k dealer cash going on right now.

Also how many more months do you have? Might be better to finish the lease since acura waives 50% of excess miles up to 15k. Meaning theyll waive max of 7.5k excess. 674 already seems a lot, add the 2k down and it just seems crazy

pdpgps

I've purchased 3 Acura's, and referred at least 3-4 other completed sales all through the same sales guy so the dealership has been good to me so far. I may have negative equity. Right now I have about 12 months left on lease, but they've stated in the past they are incredibly lenient on mileage excess. If I got a good idea what other members were closing their deals at, the originally quoted numbers can probably drop some more.

mondster

Seems like theyre making lots of money off you, of course theyll be good to you. What is your estimated excess if you drive it another 12 months?

Can you ask for the following info:
Residual %
Money factor
Amount of negative equity rolled over
Miles per year

mondster

Btw, dont ever base a "good" deal on monthly payments; too many factors determine that anount. It helps to understand how leases are calculated. From there you determine if its a good deal.

Whenever i lease a new car, i do my research and give them a firm price that i want. Of course i already know that its doable since i did the calculation beforehand. I dont shoot for something thats impossible. I literally just go to the dealer to sign documents - all negotiations via phone or text.

pdpgps

Okay so I got clarification on the offer. It's $2k down payment + first month payment, and that also includes all negative equity on my vehicle since I'd be turning it in over a year early. Still comes out to $674/month. I guess what I need to find out is what price they are selling at and work backwards.

CTNYC

Wow $674 with $2k down on a $45k car? $674 is some A6/5 series/GS/E Class money! Assuming you have decent credit and your tax rate isn't stupidly high, you are either really getting ripped off or you have some serious negative equity in your current TLX (or you're doing 24 mo lease? Not sure on those leases, but 36 months generally is the "sweet spot" for leasing). You honestly, should do $0 down (or only fees/taxes) on a lease, really no benefit for you (increased risk in case car is totaled/stolen, plus you are letting them hold your money for free essentially) - Only exception is MSD's (basically security deposit, which lowers your money factor, but not available on Acura)

Generally, assuming good credit, no negative equity, etc, a good rule of thumb for leasing (imo) is that if your monthly payment is 1% of the MSRP and you put down $0 (or just fees/required taxes) for a 12k/year lease (assuming your tax rate isn't insanely high), then it's a very good deal (Ie. TLX V6 Tech MSRP is $40k, I'd say getting under $400/mo with $0 down is a good deal... Of course, I'm cheap and love negotiating/getting deals, so I aim for even less than 1% with 15k miles.

As others have noted, there are many variables with leases. You need to know the following to really know what you are getting yourself into. Dealerships love the monthly payment game because it gives them so much leeway to make tons of money on you.
MSRP:
Selling price (before taxable rebates):
Taxable rebates:
Residual value (% of MSRP):
Money Factor:
Any (negative) equity:
Lease length

pdpgps

I think I must have serious negative equity on my existing lease. $600/month is insanely steep, but the TLX devalued much more than I thought. The estimated trade-in value was significantly below the projected market value with 3-year depreciation. Decisions...

ddswv

At a dealer, just up the road from Rockville, MD I put $3,000 down on a 10,000 mile year 36 month lease on a '15 SH-AWD Advance last June(15). Payments were $436 a month plus taxes with a residual value at the end of the lease of $25,300.

Your quote is very steep. I would ride the lease out and walk away from it next year and go into a new lease owing nothing toward the new lease but the down payment if you can't get a better deal than $675 a month. I would think they would help with the down payment when moving from one lease to another.

mondster

Ask them for actual numbers.... dont speculate.

mapleloaf

I agree that in the US, this is not a good deal. In Canada, where our website is somewhat more accurate for estimating payments, the same car, using the higher 2.4 interest rate if you want the $4500 off the price, you would end up with a 4 year lease (sweet spot here) at about $550 per month (plus taxes which range from 5 to 13% depending upon the Province. This includes the $2k downpayment, which is fine if it's a type of forced savings program. It can also help you unload the lease privately if some financial issue strikes. Otherwise, don't do it.

This monthly rate assumes that one would bargain away all of the $1900 or so in dealer fees and "mandatory" stuff. Given that our costs in Canada are always higher - selling price of Elite is about 51,500 vs $45,740, before discounts or taxes. I would therefore agree that you have somewhat too much negative equity, or the selling price is too high, to make this deal.

I agree that it would pay off to keep the car and pay whatever mileage charges you have. I do wonder if your $679 includes taxes?

BeezleTL85

8k a year to rent a car is steep.

gokhanturk

i put down 2k which is taxes and fees for a 3 year lease 15k miles a year and i pay 399 a month for mine.

CTNYC

In that case, that sucks... But I'd definitely advise against going for this lease -- Just too much money. If I may ask, what kind of deal did you get on your 2015 TLX? The fact that this dealership is giving you just monthly numbers without breaking things down for you is a huge red flag that they're ripping you off - Just because they act nice doesn't mean they have your best interests in mind, that might just mean they're being nice because they are trying make thousands off of you. Reach out to other dealerships as well and contact Acura Financial to find out what your pay off on your current lease is and compare that to the trade in value (try CarMax or some other true cash or car place) That will give you a much better idea of how much (negative) equity you have. Right now, in VA, you should definitely be able to get a TLX for ~1% of the MSRP (assuming 6% to 7% tax rate on payments only) -- I was just negotiating and hit a brick wall with my dealership. There is way too much inventory for the TLX at many dealerships -- They haven't been selling as well as last year and people still are paying a premium for crossovers/SUVs.

pdpgps

So the sale price of the SHAWD Advance I'm being quoted is $38,500. The cost of my 2015 V6 Tech was around $42k, but I got the car JUST as it hit the market, so there wasn't much discount at all. How much lower do you guys think is possible? TrueCar says I'm getting a good deal on the 2016 alone, without factoring my negative equity on the lease.

CTNYC

Any chance that's a Pohanka quote? lol seems to be right around their pricing... Yeah the 2015 really screwed you on the deal tbh, Pohanka was selling 2015 V6 techs for $32490 last September - Lease was under $380 w/ VA taxes at the time... Might be worth it to just eat the mileage fees at the end of your lease... Can't picture you coming out ahead by paying $675 on a $45k car...

pdpgps

That's the quote I got from Rosenthal, and I'm waiting for Pohanka to counter offer. Pohanka has offered $39,000 and said they would beat Rosenthal.

open contact

Pohanka will say anything to get you in, and then back and forth and wait to get you frustrated. I emailed them Rosenthal Offer and motherF.... said he will beat it by 500. I am in Germantown, MD so its about 1hr+ drive, i was like for 500 i drive. so not only 500 was a lie they were gonna do only 300 but those scums add 600 Document fee at the time it was only 200 in maryland, so total cost was more. i hate those sleezy scums at pohanka. 600 document fee for fu*** what. At least MD has a cap on it. all thse games they play makes buying a car something I dread.

Kense

You're getting raped, also you shouldn't have to put additional money down on a lease since you don't get that back unless your dealer allows for MSD's. But putting down $2000 on a lease is a waste. For comparison, for $100 more you can lease an M3

CTNYC

Hmm read on the ILX forum that Rosenthal was giving a better deal than Pohanka by a cpl hundred a month or so ago. I did email them a couple weeks ago, but they never replied... Oh well - Switched my focus to Volvo right now as they have some killer deals on the S60 (which is actually a very nice car)

EricInMaryland

If you are buying from Rosenthal ask for the internet sales manager. His name is Alan Eden. He was more than willing to share all the numbers. If you just walked in you did not talk to Alan.

pdpgps

I've got Rosenthal down to $37,500 now for the SH-AWD Advance. Their invoice was $42,350.

mapleloaf

Very good price. So how much negative equity are they charging you?

crazymjb

My grandfather is interested in a 3 year lease on a TLX SH-AWD advanced.

Any idea what I should approach the dealership with? I've negotiated a bunch of car sales, but never a lease. My parents have spent a lot of money at this Acura dealership. It will be the first nice car my grandfather has ever bought at 86.

Mike

New Car TL-S

I can't get my dealership to budge past $43.2k. He can't understand why I won't buy it. I hate car buying. $1750 ends tomorrow.

mondster

With discounts and 17s rolling out. Shawd advance can be had betweek 37k and 39k, tax excluded.

CTNYC

Read up on how leases work (Edmunds or LeaseHacker are great resources, IMO).

It is similar to negotiating the purchase of a car.

Sparknotes version - 3 main parts to a lease

-Net Cap Cost (Selling price + doc fee + title + tax + licensing + accessories - downpayment)
-Residual (Set by the manufacturer - it is a percentage of the MSRP, depending on the lease terms -- months/miles)
-Money Factor (Simliar to interest rate - Usually discounted by the manufacturer, but dealerships can mark up the MF for extra profit.. multiply the MF * 2400 to get the APR)

Quick Tips
-Never put down money - if your car is stolen/lost/totalled, you will likely lose your downpayment since GAP only covers difference between the owed value and the real value of the car -- acura doesn't offer a discount on MF for a security deposit like some luxury brands do, so put minimal down on top of the first month payment and roll everything into the lease
-Know all of the numbers mentioned above -- Many people don't understand how leases work, and dealerships present them with attractive numbers to make things look good.
-General rule of thumb (for me) -- If the monthly payment is 1% of the MSRP or less with 36mo/12k terms with ~6% tax on payments only, then it is typically a good deal (some exceptions, but overall pretty true for Acura IME)
-Negotiate online through internet sales deparments -- often a lot more aggressive with pricing... Cast a wide net to get the best deal.

gokhanturk

that's very steep. i put down 2k for taxes and fee's with 15k a year for a SH-AWD TLX i'm paying 400 a month.

shazi00

This is probably unrelated but I got 2016 TLX 2.4 w/ Tech, 15k/36mos for $0 down, $330 a month including taxes.

Had to pay the upfront fee as usual: $595 Acquisition, Tax on Cap Cost, Plates, DMV etc.

ESHBG

Great tips! I have never leased before but may for my next vehicle and I have been doing a lot of research. If you negotiate correctly, understand the numbers and leasing a solid model you can really make out on the deal. Now, many people will say, "Yeah duh, that goes for buying too!" but buying is way more straightforward and not as many numbers to wade through and be on top of.

CTNYC

Yup - My rule of thumb now is buy a used luxury car (2-4 years old) with a solid CPO warranty (Lexus is at the best CPO warranty right now, IMO, with Benz right behind -- mainly because of they are unlimited mileage) or lease.

Manufacturers also have sweet money factors or lease rebates. For example, the S60 I'm leasing now has 0.02% interest rate on lease (vs 1.9% or something for finance) plus a ~$6500 rebate on LEASES (plus many other rebates, including conquest rebate). That coupled with negotiating got me a $46k+ S60 loaded with tons of featurs for $355/mo + tax (36/15k lease) with basically first month up front, even with their horrendous residual value... Acura has sporadically been offering $1k loyalty rebates on leases the last year or two with a reasonable interest rate (roughly 2% or so). BMW's typically lease very well too, if you put the security deposit (MSD) down (lowers your interest rate).

IMO, buy a reliable used Japanese upscale brand car that is roughly 2-4 years old if you want to save money and drive it for a while. Otherwise, if you can afford the luxury to do so, lease. Of

ESHBG

I agree and I think 2 years is about the sweet spot if you can afford it.

Nice, congrats! I have noticed BMWs have had some great lease deals recently and I get a discount on them through my employer (and many other manufacturers as well) so I have been keeping a close eye on things lately. I had my last car for 11 yrs. and got rid of it just shy of 200K miles. My current 09 TSX I bought new and it only has 71K on it and still runs great because I have taken care of it so as you can see I usually keep my cars for a while but this time I may try something a little different...as cars get more sophisticated the less I think it would be wise to hold on to them for too long [if you are not a fan of strange repairs that are not normal wear and tear].