Tony Pac

I get very confused when I read people's comments related to Acura. Everyone complains about Acura's design, engine, HP, seats, tires and this and that. No matter what Acura does, people keeps complaining....and Praise Infiniti and many other cars.

I know everyone expects a lot from Acura but let's not forget one thing: No matter how much we complain. Acura beats Infiniti for the past 30 years in sales.
Just look at the last 3 years and compare their sales and you have your answer.

I think sometimes it's better to show some appreciation and If Infiniti is better than Acura, don't you think it should reflect on their sales numbers???

*just to let you know - this thread is not to bash Infiniti or any other car. this is to show that Acura is a good car and TLX is selling well

csmeance

also the stop sale and recall issue with Nissan/Infiniti isn't helping. 3+ million cars being recalled bc a sensor may not activate the airbags with 3 incidents reported.

youngTL

I don't know. I think Infiniti makes good cars, but I think that enthusiasts put more weight on the sporty stuff. That doesn't sell to the mainstream market as well. It can't really be argued that Infiniti is the better maker of sporty sedans. However, I think Acura does a better job of being an all-around sedan (especially when price is factored in).

Myself, I test drove an Infiniti Q50, and still ended up with a TLX. One reason is the AWD is better in the TLX than the Q50 (2 wheel drive of either are not sold in Canada). And the only Q50's available were either the I4 models or the hybrid, and the hybrid was super expensive (almost $11k more, when taxes were factored into both vehicles).

I think there are a lot of buyers out there like me, who want the V6 SH-AWD but don't want to pay exorbitant prices for extra power when the Acura is good enough, but a Honda isn't going to cut it.

dboz

I like the looks of the Q50. I think the Acura is a better car overall. Wisdom tells me that buying the more powerful sporty car is mostly ego. You rarely ever get to drive to notice the difference. On that note, I felt the TLX was quoted and smoother. It may not be as fast, but where is that important other than internet racing?

mapleloaf

I completely agree that the TLX is an excellent all around sedan, and I would add, the better value proposition. However, it's refreshing that folks can praise the TLX without bashing other cars like the Q50. I think Acura outsells Infiniti's because of the value proposition. I like a lot about the Q50, just not enough to shell out the extra cash.

kurtatx

Infiniti just isn't really better for the average consumer who wants something nice to drive.

Stew4HD

Oh noooo.. Our semi resident Infiniti defenders are not gonna like this thread.. no sir, not one bit.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I like the Q50 & the TLX's design language. I think a lot of the criticism about Acura is not delivering and innovating like they used to do and just playing "catch up" or "good enough." That's not to say, I don't like the TLX because I do but they can do so much with it that would make it uber competitive in an already saturated competitive market.

On the other side of the coin, Acura could dump all sorts of R&D, HP, features, etc into the TLX and it would drive the price up north of 50k. The question would then remain, would you spend 50k+ on an Acura TLX? I would guess most would say "No" because now you are in E, GS, M, A6 territory. It's a double edge sword sometimes. The critics or we (meaning me) want Acura to give me everything but keep the price at around 30k

At the end of the day, IMHO, Acura still offers a great value in the TLX in the entry level sedan segment, just like it did with its predecessors.

Stew4HD

It seems Acura is content for the TLX to be just an "upscaled" Accord and little more. They are leaving much on the table

Tony Pac

well - I clearly said this is not to bash Infiniti but show some appreciation to Acura and its products.

I know Infiniti Q50 is a good car and has lots of raw power and etc...but TLX offers a lot more value and better resale value.

Again, numbers clearly show that I like facts and i would have never created this thread if Infiniti's sales were lower by 2-3K units but NO, look at the numbers:

2015
US
177K
Canada
21K units

2016 YTD
US
54K units
Canada 6K units

Infiniti:
2015
US
133K units
Canada
11K units (half of CAN market)

2016 YTD
US
43K units
Canada
3,6K units

If people still believe that Infiniti is better than Acura...they better come with some sales number and facts

saturno_v

Tony Pac


Sales is not the only gauge to measure if a car or a brand is "better"...better can mean many things to many people.

Infiniti has some very old vehicles in its lineup that are way overdue for revamping....for example, their big and small sporty SUV (the QX70 and QX50), the Q60 coupe is now 8 years old and so is the big Q70 sedan.

Remember also that Infiniti lineup overall average price tag is higher than Acura which may have an impact on sales.

Infiniti as Acura is affected by a bit of lack of focus and R&D dollars.

TacoBello

one big hit against infiniti- their naming structure for their cars. absolutely ridiculous. I think they made a huge mistake by changing every car to a Q and every SUV to a QX. Seriously, automakers need to give their cars names and some soul again. QX70 just sounds like a particular robot on an assembly line. I don't buy into the reasoning that by making these ridiculous letter/number names, that more attention is paid to the manufacturer rather than the car itself. No one confuses an Integra as being anything but an Acura. No one confuses a Mustang as being anything but a Ford. Etc, etc....


That being said, don't Infinitis generally cost more than Acuras? Especially once you start optioning them out and move up the trim line? That in itself is reasoning for the sales discretion.


I'm not particular to either. There's stuff I love and hate about Acura. There's stuff I love and hate about Infiniti.

youngTL

TacoBello, as always the voice of reason here. I feel similarly regarding things like I like and dislike about each brand.

BEAR-AvHistory

Better is not a great word for one car over another. Think the Infiniti is perceived as more upscale because they have a broader product line that starts higher & runs further up the price scale.

Nissan is actively trying to position the car more firmly into the upper premium level with Coupes & Convertible in addition to the 4 door & SUV lines.

400HP cars will make them heads up players against some of the German models.

I think Honda goals right now are to build volume & get over the 4G years. TLX is well positioned to do that provided there are no more ZF adventures. Infiniti seems to have moved past its DBW excursion into the junk yard.

BTW When you think of sales you need to think about profit margins. A brand might sell fewer cars but if they are sold for more money per unit they may well be meeting their ROI requirements.

mapleloaf

Well said. I would add that it's such a competitive sedan market, with more good cars than ever before, that manufacturers like Acura have to do what they have done well in the past - offer an excellent all around car that ticks a lot of boxes for mainstream buyers who want an upscale vehicle. The TLX has certainly made strides in that direction.

Tony Pac

Disagree! their pricing is almost the same, there is not much different. It's not like I am comparing Acura and Jaguar. In addition, Infiniti has more vehicles than Acura, so their sales should be even better. It's infinities problem that they are keeping their vehicles for 8 years. There must be a reason for it. No budget? sales are down? who knows?

If sales number is not important then please tell me what's important when you compare two very similar brands...both Japanese...

Infiniti and Acura will never be Lexus. Both brands will never match Lexus sales number, quality and market share. But Acura and Infiniti are pretty much on the same both....Acura being a better product, well rounded and higher sales numbers

Tony Pac

Agreed! that would apply to Porsche. Acura and Infiniti are pretty much on the same boat when it comes to pricing. Actually Infiniti has better lease pricing and their marketing is 10 times more aggressive than Acura. but Acura being a better product...higher sales....leads to more profit....leads to more R&D ...leads to Acura NSX

*If Infiniti stops offering cheap leases, the company will shut down IMHO. in Canada you can lease a brand new QX50 for $458 tax in. Find me an Acura for that price.

saturno_v

Tony, overall MSRP average price is higher on Infiniti, look it up....no ILX equivalent so far in the Infiniti lineup (the Mercedes based Q30 is coming), before the arrival of the 2.0 Turbo 4 engine the Q50 started 6 grand higher than the TLX and if you option their cars similarly the sticker price is usually higher.

You did ask for a reason why their sales are lower than Acura and I offered some potential explanation (sticker prices and old models)

Nexx

but yet you always go to sales numbers to justify why your precious Maxima is better and always point out that your precious q50 + rebaged g37 are similar to tlx numbers? stop it... seriously stop it

neil0311

I'll say this about Infiniti, they are MUCH more expensive and nickel and dime you for features and packages.

Acura includes many more things standard and their packages are more inclusive and there are fewer of them.

To get a Q50 with AWD and similar features to my TLX SH-AWD would have been around $12K to $15K more.

saturno_v

I do not have a "precious" Maxima and poor sales numbers do not always means a car is bad....again not always.
Cars with polarizing style for example can be excellent on content, value and performance and still not being very successful in the market place....in other words an "ugly" car does not necessarily means it is a mediocre car.

Infiniti as a brand does have some serious issues though, half of its lineup is literally decrepit, way past expiration date.

Tony Pac

I appreciate your response brother but again, you are bringing ILX to the discussion. Seriously??

Acura's 80% sales consist of MDX, TLX and RDX. ILX is their least sold car and doesn't really help the equation. If Pricing was the only factor, believe me Lexus wouldn't sell close to 500K units a year. Their cars are priced above Acura and Infiniti. So to conclude, price plays 5% of the role (again since there is not much difference between Acura and Infiniti's pricing) but the overall brand is 95% of the game. Acura is a brand!

i respect your opinion and if you want to believe pricing is the key and therefore Inifniti's sales numbers are low...then good for you.

BC01191980

I find infiniti to be ugly and also inefficient

CybrRdr

Agreed! If pricing was the only factor then why does M-B, BMW, Lexus, and Audi have better sales? There are many factors to consider. Brand appeal, Brand loyalty, dealer network, model lineup, market strategy, etc.

JAB00

Not much of a fan of Infiniti's new design language for the current generation (across the board). Acura has managed to right the ship. The TLX is a nice and upscale looking car. The new RDX looks as good or better than the MDX. The ILX is too small but I can see a millennial liking it. Only thing Acura needs to do is start from scratch for the moribund RLX.

saturno_v

I do not want to believe anything...I did not mention only the price as a possible factor (not necessarily the only explanation) for less sales....I mentioned some other (serious) issues with the Infiniti lineup (decrepit models) didn't I??

By the way, the ILX alone is worth about 20k unit sales per year, Infiniti has no competitor yet in the North American market.

Personally, other the the Q50 that I already own, there is nothing in the Infiniti lineup that appeal to me...zero...other than the new sexy looking Q60 coupe which has not arrived yet.

hadokenuh

Infiniti is better than Acura because they have RWD and 300HP+. It also came with 6MT.

So is Lexus but Lexus is more refined and reliable. Hence higher price. Plus the Lexus badge.

Acura is better than Lexus because it's better value. Acura is better than Infiniti because it's more reliable.

Bashing one brand or the others doesn't make any sense. Then, you'll just become a fanboy.

Stew4HD

Better is subjective, truly

neil0311

Exactly, and there is a difference between "better" and "better value." Better value can be measured objectively. Better is subjective based on preference and taste.

Personally, you couldn't give me a Chrysler product. They look cheap to me, the styling is geared to 16 year olds, and their track record of reliability and quality is abysmal. Having said that, there are probably many people who disagree with me and think the TLX is "boring" or "too old" for them.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think sales numbers are a good way to see if a car is good, but it probably isn't the only metric.

The Mazda 6 is very well received by many car journalists, yet, it doesn't sell well at all.

The Toyota Corolla isn't all that good, especially compared to the Mazda 3 and Honda Civic. It still uses 4AT and a 1.8L engine with 132hp. But it's selling like hot cakes still.

youngTL

They do need a performance trim of the TLX though as well.

As far as the RLX goes, the Sport Hybrid is actually a fantastic drivetrain wrapped in a horribly uninteresting body style. A redesign of the exterior to be more aggressive and upscale looking would do wonders for that car (and also to do what they did in Canada, axe the FWD trims entirely, Sport Hybrid only).

Kense

Infiniti has horrible marketing which is why they don't sell as much. Which is fine for me because I don't own Stock in them so how many they sell really makes no difference to me. They are going after the Germans hard now, they are not concerned about what Acura does or is doing. When the 2.0t sales/advertising picks up you'll see their sales numbers go higher. Not sure who would buy that but whatever. Not to mention the Q60 Coupe is about to drop. Acura has nothing to even go against that. Also the new Red Sport Q50 that competes with the S4, AMG450 and 435i. Acura better do something because right now, the Accord looks better than the TLX and is a better value. The only Infiniti that really competes with a TLX right now is the 2.0t.

Redsand353

I would have to agree that Acura and Infiniti are completely different animals despite the common assumption by most. I have a Q50 3.7 right now, and compared to my old Type-S and the TLX I test drove, its far more "raw" of a driving experience.

The Acuras (old and new) felt much more refined, engines felt and sounded smoother, and were overall a much more tame driving experience. The Inifiniti rides harder, the engine/exhaust is louder, it just doesn't give you that silky smooth feel when you put the pedal all the way down.

With all that being said, I am happy with my choice because I was looking for a different driving experience after having two Acuras. I dont see how any of these characteristics would make one car better then the other, it just depends what you are looking for out of a vehicle. I won't count Acura out when this lease is up..

Tony Pac

My apologies to ignore your point about the issue with Infiniti's lineup and miscalculated the ILX sales. But if you analyze why Infiniti's lineup is not impressive, you might get your answer. Probably they don't know either which direction to take lol. They are confused. Infiniti always relied on G and now Q50. If we look at their lineup, they should sell more cars then Acura since Infiniti offers a coupe, convertible, QX70 & 80. If it was just price, again believe me brother, people wouldn't buy 500K MB, BMW and Lexus.

So definitely Acura offers a better, well rounded product which is more appealing to people. Infiniti is a great brand, there is no doubt about it but my whole point from the start of this thread was that we should appreciate Acura.

Tony Pac

Agreed. But overall, when you compare price, reliability, re-sale value and cost of maintenance Acura offers a better product, therefore it's more appealing to people.

Again, everyone has an opinion and I respect it. There is something with Acura that has higher sales number than Infiniti. Right? It's not like Acura prices are under $30K, therefore it sales more. I can proof that you can lease a Q50 and QX50 at a cheaper price than Acura TLX and RDX (in Canada). Infiniti has more aggressive pricing and marketing in Canada but still their sales are way below Acura.

saturno_v

To extremely simplify, in my opinion currently Acura is better in SUVs, Infiniti is better in cars....

Tony Pac

I am so grateful to you that at least you agreed on SUV, but one last comment from me to proof you that Acura sedans are better as well.

Total Sedan sales Canada+USA for Infiniti:
2015: 67,823 units.
2016 YTD: 19,074 units

Total Sedan sales Canada+USA for Acura:
2015: 75,614 units
2016 YTD: 21,454 units

Brother - please do the math and let me now

Acura sold about 8,000 cars more than Infiniti in 2015 and over 2,000 in 2016 so far. Please bring facts next, I love facts, numbers and data. I am taking my time to do all this work to show you my reasoning. I don't want to waste your and my time. Now if you gonna answer me something that you believe....then I respect that...I don't want to change your opinion. I share my opinion based on data

saturno_v

....often, at least here in the states, you can lease a BMW for less than a comparable Acura....just saying....

Tony Pac

Brother - probably in Canada is the same. That's why I am trying to explain you for the past 2 days. Yes - you can lease a 3 Series cheaper than a TLX but then that cheaper price reflects on BMW 3 Series sales. 3 Series sales are 4-5 times more than TLX.

That's the whole point....so why Infiniti Q50 and QX50 cannot show the same results???

If Acura starts to offer cheaper lease and huge discount prices, I can assure you their sales will be 90,000 units this year But historically Acura is not good when it comes to offer competitive lease pricing.

I am confused now brother....not sure what to say

youngTL

I really like Acura, but I feel like you started this thread with the motive to rile people up a little bit. The tone of the posts is somewhat incendiary.