DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Though I'm a few years out from retiring the 3G TL, the TLX remains a top future contender amidst two other very potent competitors. Yesterday, I saw an ad for what I thought was the TLX, an lo, it wasn't - it was the Accord.

My jaw dropped. It looks like the SAME damn car with differentiation favoring the Accord??? After checking the Honda website, even the interior only shares some pretty minor differences with the TLX.

Why would you create two vehicles so similarly styled for two different market segments???

dezymond

Although the features of the two cars are similar, I assure you they drive very differently. The Acura is hands down the more refined one and only loses in the category of technology.

I was in the market and the two choices I had were the Accord and the TLX. After driving the TLX (the 4cyl), I knew hands down I would get the Acura instead. Ended up with the v6 instead though.

In terms of styling, there are similarities as expected, but the TLX reminds me alot more of my 3G TL than it does an Accord.

Rocket_man

You could make the same case for the 2016 Civic and save even more money.

Shop both back to back. If the TLX isn't worth it to you, buy the Accord. It's your call.

spoiler900

I was shocked to find all the cool features found in my TLX advance like Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keep Assist are offer both in the new Accord and even the Civic!

My old 2001 TL looks pretty identical to a 2001 Accord, way more similiar than the newer models, practically interchangeable parts

CheeseyPoofs McNut

The mid sized sedan market is very competitive. I'm guessing they would love to have more differentiation between the two brands on the technology side but it's not possible because brands like by Kia and Hyundai offer cars loaded with tech for less money.

As Dez and Rocket said - you need to drive them back to back then decide. I found the ride and to be far superiour to my 13 Accord - not sure about the 16's though as I haven't driven one and I think they tweaked the suspension a bit in an effort to smooth it out.

Either way - the Accord is a nice car and a superb value - no way around that.
Regarding styling - I think the 16 Accord looks nice but the TLX looks far better. That said - all sedans today are adopting similar styling for aerodynamics and crash safety etc., it's hard to be too different unless you want a Maxima or a Lexus with the awful grill.

KeithL

I test drove a 16 accord Touring and it was a nice car, but in the end the TLX is just more refined and has more upgraded elements that give you a more luxurious feel. That said Honda has a difficult juggling act just as many other makes do. They have to be competitive in each segment they compete in or they loose sales. The Honda segment is cut throat with the Koreans stepping up their game and offering very compelling alternatives. Even Toyota has the Avalon crossing right into the ES territory as they are both based on the same car. The Germans with all their new $30K entries also make all segments more competitive and VW has the same issues with VW/Audi. While some of these cares are similar there is enough differentiation to let them all coexist, but you will inevitably have some people cross shop them.

csmeance

There was an article written saying that acura was poised until 2016 to stay Honda+ basically by Honda Corp. The old CEO and left, new CEO is doing what he feels is right to bring passion and profit to the brand. Wait for the MMC/refreshed TLX as the 2018 model.

You have to remember the parts for these cars are designed nearly 2 years before they are sold, and usually have contracts for 2-3 years to produce the same parts. Acura/Honda are a bit slow to adapt for this reason. As well, this allows them less flexibility with options to make profit in their mind.

Options are what actually make brands money vs the base car. With the simple package system that Acura has vs Honda, it makes it a lot easier to buy a car but at the same time you have limited choices.

The new TLX is great and bounds better than the accord. At the end of the day, the TLX does everything better than the accord and everyone who drives it will realize it.

Nexx

Oh noes!!! Toyota Avalon has the same features as the GS350! Toyota is Cannibalizing Lexus Oh noes!!!

dj5

I actually think the 2015 Accord looks better than the current TLX. Hopefully the MMC for the TLX will add some excitement. When the time comes, I would like to replace my '08 TLS with a 2018 TLX Type S if they make one. If not, I will probably will go with the Lexus GS 350 F Sport.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

An Avalon and a GS350 parked adjacent to one another feature both markedly different visuals both inside an out. That's well before the road comparisons occur.

I cannot say the same for the Accord and TLX. From what I am reading of the Accord and TLX, the TLX is the hands down comfort winner, but damn do they ever look similar.

I see this one is a bit over your head. As a long-time Acura enthusiast, a strong market position greatly benefits the community as larger market base provides a much better return for aftermarket developers. The new Accord is, to me, far too direct a competitor to accomplish the aforementioned means. Just ask Richie or Marcus how important that is (I'll let you figure out who they are).

In the meantime, I'll wait to see what the 6-month sales figures indicate and bump this thread thereafter.

ostrich

I know this thread is about the ACCORD and the TLX, but if you look at the new PILOT TOURING, it has even more features than the similarly priced RDX Elite - so that makes it very difficult to justify getting the RDX, unless you really want a smaller SUV that is more agile and a bit faster... but at almost the same price!? Hmm..... and even more difficult, why would anyone pay so much more to get the lower trim MDX!? Hmm......

CanTex

...with all the same plastic parts in the transmission. My '01 TL was on its 4th transmission when my son traded it in on his '14 RDX. 185K miles, and still a good car except for the tranny. He didn't want to go through that again. (It was well into its second tranny when I sold it to him.)

Yes, the TLX over the Accord any day of the week. I have to park it a lot so I don't go over the lease limit. Awesome driver's car, hard to not drive it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Dan, in the NSX thread, he states he is a salesman for Acura.
it's very weird that instead of chiming on why Acura is doing these things, he pokes fun of the issue.

I'm waiting for Nexx to fully explain the position Honda/Acura is in, instead of making these one off baseless statements.

Nexx

i never once said anything about appearance inside or out. my response was on the options and features that one guy pointed out. i dont agree on the exterior appearance being that similar. now interior, since they both use the dual screens and similar button layout ill give you that.

nist7

The Avalon is on the same platform as the ES (not the GS, GS is a completely diff platform with RWD/AWD and much more sportier drivetrain optios).

But there is a point and that is....how people perceive value. I mean if one were to take a blind test without knowing if one is a "luxury" brand or not...i wonder how people would fare.

Because many higher end "base models" like Accord are getting similar features/tech as the entry level luxury cars like the TLX/ES/etc.

So one can easily argue, if one is more practically minded, to go for a Toyota/Honda rather than a Lexus/Acura. Not to mention the "badge tax" for entry level luxury cars that share same platform as the base models (ie accord vs TL)

I was doing a PSF change the other week and I noticed the dreaded Acura badge tax....Acura badged things are slightly higher priced...but obviously we know better that many are basically cheaper priced and the same thing if we go to a Honda dealer to get.

The motor is the same in TL and the Accord V6...so buying "honda" parts rather than "acura" parts are going to be cheaper...but essentially they are exactly the same.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I found the 2015 TLX quieter and more refined than the 2014 Accord. Not sure if the 2016 Accord is improved in those areas.

Regardless, if bang for the buck is your thing, then the Accord wins hands down. Its volume is way higher than the TLX, and as a result it's going to bring more value by default. Also, the Accord is competing in a crowded segment, Honda is doing the right thing by making sure the Accord is highly competitive.

With that said, Acura sure has a lot to do now to keep the TLX competitive as well.

nist7

Would be interesting to see if there are objective ways to quantify quietness and refinement. Many test drives are going to be subjective and of course the phenomenon of when you know its more expensive/luxury-brand you are probably likely to think it's better.

Now will be very difficult to test. And of course some things are quantifiable such as how much sound deadning/dampening and other measurables you can do for a car.

Maybe what you can do is take a bunch of people who know very little about cars (so they won't be able to immediately pick out which is which by looks alone) and have them sit and drive in higher end base models vs entry level luxury models and see if they can tell difference between the two

CheeseyPoofs McNut

The thing is - we buy with our emotions more than our brains in many cases. We sit in a Lexus and we feel special and we want to present to the world that we're special and then we figure out what a smart purchase it is!

oonowindoo

To answer your question: Yes, Accord is stealing TLX's sales as Pilot is stealing MDX's sales. That is inevitable the way Honda and Acura produce their cars. Honda has made their volume sellers VERY VERY good and Acura has been mediocre products (not bad but not good enough). So what do you think was going to happen?

Just be glad that Honda did not put a V6 and LED headlight as options on the CRV, or you can add RDX on that list too.

The problem is Acura does not have enough toys to really differentiate itself from Honda. You would assume that Acura would be the first the get all the high tech toys and the new turbo engine... Nope, Honda did and when Acura finally gets it, you will be like "what else is new?"

But yah TLX is better than Accord in almost every way but there is also a price difference as well. When all things considered, only you can decide if the price difference is justifiable vs. the difference in both cars.

Back in the days, while Acura shared a lot of the components with Honda, there were a lot of things Acura had that Honda did not. Things that actually mattered: 3.2L V6 vs. 3.0 V6, Way more power, 5 speed auto vs. 4 speed auto (even tho the 5 speed was a POS), sport shift, HID, touch screen navigation, much much nicer interior, bigger wheels and list goes on.

RedRyder

iTrader: (1)

The one area in which I would like to see Acura differentiate itself from Honda on a grander scale, is performance. Enough of the half-hearted AWD systems and motors and elevate their standing in the performance world. The DCT in the TLX was a nice addition. I would like to see a RWD car from them, or a true AWD system that isn't FWD-biased. Their V6 has been in the 250-300 HP range forever now, with even lower torque figures. Performance is what Honda doesn't have, at least with the Accord. Acura could take that torch and run with it, like they did back in 2001-03 with the CL Type-S. Tech is not enough to set Acura apart, as more and more of it becomes favorable in the consumer eye and is making it into all cars, due in no small part to federal mandates. I.e. backup cameras will soon be mandatory...no, a person driving a Chevy Spark doesn't [read: shouldnt] need that but it will supposedly be there.


Yes a focus on luxury is paramount for Acura to be above Honda, but so is performance and right now there just isn't a big enough difference there.

dezymond

The 2016 Accord definitely feels more refined than the 2014, and you can really tell they made improvements into overall ride quality by a bit more sound deadening, but what bugs me about Hondas is the amount of wheel and wheel well noise. My 2008 TL was quieter than a 2016 Accord and that was disappointing to me.

The new Accord is extremely good value for the money, but had I gone that route from a 2008 TL, the only upgrades I feel would be technology and mpg.

oonowindoo

what kind of upgrade did you really think you can get?
and more importantly what kind of upgrades do you think you can get from TLX instead of Accord?

Remember Accord is supposed to compete with Camry..... it should never be in the same sentence as TL/TLX. The fact that Accord is so close to TLX right now is not a good thing for Acura or Honda.

TacoBello

I remember when leather seats was enough to differentiate between Acura and Honda

kevTL888

the only negative on the '16 Accord when comparing it with TLX is although the '16 model has number of improvements visually and technology-wise, but it's still a gen 9 Accord, and has been in the market since calendar year 2012. so at best you're looking at 2 more model years for the current Accord then the new gen 10 will debate. TLX is still new, only 2nd year into the current generation. for those of you do mind driving the latest and greatest (like myself), this is a big factor to tilt the balance to TLX

BEAR-AvHistory

Thing is in the real world you are perceived & treated differently by what car people see you pull up in.

Same clothes nothing in personal appearance different but you would think I am 3 different people, 1996 Ranger, 2014 BMW 435 coupe, 1965 Cobra replica. Cobra carries a 1965 NC plate & can be easily mistaken for an $1,000,000+ original.

Test would be put a bag over someone's head & do a bunch of random swaps between an Accord & a TLX then have them fill out a survey. Ride 1, 2, etc.

oonowindoo

FYI 16' accord has just as much latest tech as TLX, if not more.

cruiserchuck

As of now, the 2016 Accord has a higher overall crash test rating than the TLX.

oonowindoo

I thought the whole Acura line up has the highest safety/crash ratings? Isnt that how they advertise their cars now?

If Accord does have higher overall crash test rating, then i blame the beak..... it will penetrate backwards to the driver.

holografique

Overall, I think the 16' Accord visually carries a more refined presence than the TLX and even the RLX for that matter. And the 16' Coupe...even sexier.

The one thing that kills me about Honda is they offer more attractive, tasteful and refined accessory options than Acura does. For example, the rim options, and especially the rear spoiler are far more classy, tasteful and don't look like odd-ball cheap after-market "tacked on" accessories like you get with the Acura accessories. I just don't get it. Every time I see a 15' or 16' Accord Sport Trim with that really nice thin rear spoiler, I immediately think of the large bulky grotesque spoiler they gave us for the RLX and just shake my head.

$30k car gets better designed accessories. $60k car gets dumb "my first duplo-block" accessories...

What am I missing?

cruiserchuck

According to the information on another thread titled 2016 Acura TLX VS 2012 TL Crash Test, Honda made changes to try to improve the TLXs performance on the small overlap crash test, and the car actually did worse than last year. As a result, the 2016 TLX is no longer a Top Safety Pick +

JT4

If I was buying one I would take a TLX.

But I do think Honda has done a good job improving an already good looking Accord, especially the Sport model. It has a very appealing aggressive look to it.

As we know Acura markets the TLX with a sporty ("it's that kind of thrill") image. However, IMO if a TLX and Accord Sport were next to each other, the avg person (not a forum member) would think the Accord was the performance sedan of the two. Again, in the avg person's eyes.

I really want Acura to offer a TLX-S.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I think I think there is a large difference between what Honda makes off the Accord vs what they make off the entire Acura line. So that's just the way it goes. Frankly I think they're missing a huge profit opportunity when it comes to upgrading Accord owners (just read many of the posts here) because the TLX isn't a clear upgrade and only a small percentage have the dough to even consider an RLX - even if it was more appealing to the masses.

In the meantime I love my TLX but who knows what the landscape will look like in 4 or 5 years. The way things are going I'm more excited about the 10 gen Accord than the next gen TLX.

holografique

^ I agree with what you're saying. But it still doesn't explain why the lower-end brand gets higher-quality well designed accessories vs the luxury brand getting lower-end, tacky looking accessories that in many cases don't even flow well with the design of the vehicle itself.

It's completely upside down...

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Agreed. I think it's due to the design cycles. The *next* RLX should see some major upgrades.

It's a shame really - such a giant missed opportunity for AHMC.

holografique

oonowindoo

It is one of those cycles.

Honda has 10x the customers than Acura, so it makes business sense to provide more accessories and everything else since they will be 10x of the sales. (assumption)

But yah Honda Executives should throw a bone at Acura once a while at least...i still don't understand why 19" wheel option for Acura costs over $4000..... unless they are forged that weighs 15 lbs, but they are not.

frainc

That's why I got a 2015 Accord EX-L V6 coupe. I have had both Accords and Acura's for the past 15 or so years and when I was going for a new car again I gave a look and drove both the coupe and TLX. Yes, I agree that the TLX has a more up scale feel but the look's of the coupe just won me over.

Now that I have it for almost a year, no regrets at all. The V6 makes this car fun to drive and not one thing wrong from this car, still solid from the day I got it. Oh, spending only $28.5k didn't hurt either.

wlkeel

I guess it's a small thing to many (but important to me), but I like the extra year of warranty. Both the bumper-to bumper 4 yrs and the powertrain 6 yrs.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Yep - no argument here. The deck spoiler looks much more refined and cohesive on the Accord. That said - I like the TLX spoiler but would like it better if it were integrated into the trunk lid instead of glued on. I actually like the rims on the Accord too - can't beat a classic 5 spoke rim on a sedan like that.

holografique

It's not about the amount of accessories, it's about the design quality behind them. Your complaint about $4k rims proves my point. Acura rim designs of late have been horrible, yet cost more than Honda rims, that look better! Again, that's completely a$$-backwards.

It all comes down to poor design quality behind Acura accessories, which shouldn't be the case if it's supposed to be the upper-scale luxury brand. It reeks of the classic "cost-cutting" scenarios where they hand-off important tasks to other team members not really qualified for a given task because they are short-staffed, etc.

"Hey Jim, I know you're busy, but you think you can whip up a quick rear-spoiler design for the RLX? I know it's not your project and you haven't really been involved with the RLX, but we need help to get this thing out quick..."