justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Acura is detuning these engines.

A J37 can achieve 320 crank hp easily!



you know why?


because Acura is 'Green'

George Knighton

The 4G TL 6-6 SH-AWD was darned speedy by comparison, probably because its version of SH-AWD put quite a bit of power onto the rear.

George Knighton

The J35 in the RLX is already 310 HP. Does anyone know what's the difference between the J35 in the TLX and the J35 in the RLX?

When you suggested 320 HP in the J37 (non-direct injection) motors, how are you proposing to move them the few HP up from the 305 they're rated?

smoooov

I-VTECH

Acuras V6s make their power at high rpms. The TLX just doesn't launch.

Turbo ATS: Bit quicker (trac.off) 0-60 but slower 1/4 and trap speed.
Acceleration, 0-30 mph (sec.)2.2 0-45 mph (sec.)4.0 0-60 mph (sec.)6.3 0-75 mph (sec.)9.2 1/4-mile (sec. @ mph)14.5 @ 95.9 0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.)6.1 0-30 mph, trac ON (sec.)2.7 0-45 mph, trac ON (sec.)4.8 0-60 mph, trac ON (sec.)7.2 0-75 mph, trac ON (sec.)9.9 1/4-mile, trac ON (sec. @ mph)15.1 @ 95.0

A4 turbo quattro...same thing

Acceleration, 0-30 mph (sec.)2.1 0-45 mph (sec.)4.2 0-60 mph (sec.)6.2 0-75 mph (sec.)9.5 1/4-mile (sec. @ mph)14.6 @ 94.1 0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.)5.9 0-30 mph, trac ON (sec.)2.4 0-45 mph, trac ON (sec.)4.5 0-60 mph, trac ON (sec.)6.6 0-75 mph, trac ON (sec.)10.0 1/4-mile, trac ON (sec. @ mph)14.8 @ 93.8

oonowindoo

i know very well about Infiniti since i have had so many of them.

But being competitive is 1 thing, something new that you can advertise with and attract new and old customers is another.

we have 2 perfect example VQ and J.. both are pretty tied for the best V6 in the past 20 years. but it is time to let them go.

saturno_v

I'm not disagreeing with you...I'm saying that in my opinion at least Infiniti has a little bit more sparkle left as things stands.

They both need to either move to forced induction or going hybrid all the way with some models with performance in mind.

oonowindoo

I-Vtec, Vtech is a phone. Vtec was cool in the 90s. Now everyone has their own version of Vtec.
the low end torque of turbo 4 banger obviously will help it to get to speed faster but at the end it is still a 4 banger, thus the much lower trap speed.
most of TLX V6's competitors are all pretty much have 100+ mph trap speed.

It is what it is. TLX does a lot of things well but performance is just not one of them.

oonowindoo

The only little thing they had left for me was the 6mt.. and when they got rid of that... that was the end of it, as far as performance sedan goes.

But when everything else being equal between TLX and Q50, at least Q50S is still RWD and RWD based AWD.

Mr Hyde

I acknowledge the improvements in shift speeds, but for a 0-60, or even the 1/4 you are talking 2 or 3 gear changes before you hit the finish. It still has a torque converter, isn't preselecting gears, and with AWD, it is still going to bog the launch vs a manual.

Not sure why people were expecting a track monster, mild to moderate performance improvement with big improvement in refinement and economy is in line with what I was expecting.

For all this talk about absolute performance, the performance version of the TL had a single digit take rate, so 90 percent of buyers didnt care; but hopefully the TLX sells enough to allow them to consider a higher performing version again.

oonowindoo

are you serious?

George Knighton

That's true, unfortunately, and those kinds of versions can be more expensive than people generally understand.

The 4G TL 6-6 even had different suspension bushings and motor mounts. All kinds of little things that people have to think about.

Mr Hyde

Um yes.....

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Acura wasn't trying to play it safe with the TLX. Their sedan sales have tanked, and they needed a hit which is most things to all people as opposed to all things to a select few.

oonowindoo

there was a glitch on AZ that you quoted me 4 times with 4 different replies.

smoooov

Actually the turbo 4s are more of a competitor to the V6 TLX if you take price into the equation. But I will agree that Acura could have put the 3.7 in the car or at least The RLX version of tune. Mercedes, Audi, and BMW use the same motor in their different models without any sort of power decrease so I really don't understand Acuras thought.

oonowindoo

When you are in the "luxury" market, you cant based on competitors based on pricing alone.

when you put other 4banger turbo to compete with V6 TLX, then how about the 4 banger TLX or the 6 cylinder others.

smoooov

Well the I4 TLX isn't a turbo and price wise more closely competes with the CLA250, 320i, A3 1.8t, ATS 2.5.

And price does make a difference or we might as well compare a 550i to a E63AMG.

oonowindoo

ok So you have I4 TLX vs. CLA250, 320, A3, and ATS 2.5

V6 TLX vs. 328i, C300. ATS turbo, IS250, Q40

Then what about C400, 335, ATS V6, IS350, Q50?

and ILX is in a class by itself with no competitors?

Do you see something wrong with that?

SMMN

Edmunds is the one that's implying that they can't get a faster 0 to 60 time and I just pointed out 2 tests that best their times; so I think they are the ones that have to ask why they can't achieve lower results.

07Acuradude

The TLX 0-60 times will be more than good enough for probably 90% of the people buying them IMO.

jjsC5

I don't know where the performance of the SH is going to fall, but I would not get all worked up over one test by Edmunds. I've been reading car magazines for 49 years now (still have every one of them). You have to read several tests before having a feel for how fast something really is. There are always outliers, high and low. Let's give this some more time to get more full road tests by mainstream magazines that have been doing this sort of testing for a long time.

smoooov

Well if my car is any indication, I know that just stabbing the throttle produces nothing for nearly a second. Especially when traction control is on. With it off, and in sport +, there is less hesitation but then all hell breaks loose in a fury of tire spin. Edmunds getting the same time whether TC is on or off kind of tells me they couldn't get the throttle to cooperate very well either. Maybe other tester will figure out how to apply the throttle to get a better response. I'm interested in C&Ds 5-60 mph test as well.

iutodd

The A3 and the CLA250 don't really compete with the TLX because they are in different segments. The A3 is actually a subcompact car (tiny trunk and mediocre rear seat room) and the CLA isn't a traditional sedan - and is also pretty small on the inside (look up the car seat check on the CLA). I am sure there are people who will cross shop the A3 and TLX (just as people will cross shop the A3 and A4 or ILX and TLX) but they are not, technically "competitors".

The ILX will/does compete against the CLA and the A3 (and the Verano if you want to include it) because of the size comparison and the starting prices (though the Verano is much less expensive).

Other than that your lineups are mostly spot on. However, to me, the C400 and 335 and S4 are really the next step up from the V6 TLX in terms of straight-line performance and gaudy numbers. The ATS 3.6 and IS350 are really no faster than the TLX V6 SHAWD. And until the TLX gets a HPT package comparing skid pad and handling numbers is somewhat difficult to do - yes the chassis balance of the ATS and IS will be better than the TLX - but they won't necessarily overpower the TLX all that much.

012TL-GLM

All Acura did with the TLX was improve MPG and silence the cabin. Those are the ONLY improvements over the 4G. We're not going to discuss aesthetics for obvious reasons.

They fed us a bunch of crap early on about weight reduction, exterior dimension reduction (somehow keeping the interior *the same*), then go on to show a beautiful prototype, only to kill it off and give us another plain jane sedan, with pretty cool headlights...

I don't know what the people are smoking that think the interior is the same size. You are out of your mind. The seats don't track back as far, and the back seat is a joke for anyone over 5'10"

The dual screen setup is great technology, but poorly executed. I'll stick with my buttons.

I just went to a test drive event at Muller's Acura in Hoffmann estates. I was so underwhelmed. Let me sum it up - the 4G is FUN to drive, the TLX was boring in comparison. Honestly I think the cabin insulation has a lot to do with it. I didn't find any thrill. The most impressive model is the 4 banger. Its worth getting over an Accord just for the transmission alone

Nexx

its amazing how you guys get so caught up in 0-60 numbers on a main stream family sedans. obviously the q50 with teh best 0-60 in its class is by far the best period.. thats all that matters guys. come on...

saturno_v

It is not about the 0-60...it is the way the car drives...and the TLX just does not drive as nice and sporty as a 4G TL or an IS, a 3 Series, an ATS or a Q50 (for me), period.

saturno_v

+1

Well said...and maybe part of the noise reduction has something to do with the crappy performing tires...

AZuser

I wasn't trying to find who had the lowest 0-60 or 0-whatever time. Every organization is going to have slightly different results.

I was trying to see how much of an improvement the TLX is over the outgoing TL by pulling up the test numbers from the same people who did the tests for both the TL and TLX, and that was Edmunds.

If this thread was about Car and Driver's test results for the TLX V6 SH-AWD, then I'd pull up the test results Car and Driver got for the outgoing 4g TL SH-AWD so we can compare and see how much of an improvement the TLX is based on their testing procedures.

If this thread was about Motor Trend's test results for the TLX V6 SH-AWD, then I'd pull up the test results Motor Trend got for the outgoing 4G TL SH-AWD so we can compare and see how much of an improvement the TLX is based on their testing procedures.

AZuser

My bad for trying to compare the fastest and stock production TLX to what was the fastest and stock production 4G TL.

Mr Hyde

You forgot the Buick.

I'm glad you qualified the Q50 "for you" because you seem to be in the minority with Infiniti themselves admitting the steering feel was so bad in the drive by wire, and hydraulic systems, that they are going with a new steering rack after only a year. By new, I actually mean old, but that's besides the point.

The people who like the TLX obviously think it drives nice and sporty (for them).
The few 4G owners (curiously) who seem to dislike it so much obviously aren't convincing them otherwise no matter how much the same message is repeated.

The one funny thing I find is that even in the few lack luster reviews, I have never seen anyone else say that the TLX is a step down from the previous 4G, and one of the positive reviews actually came from a 4G owner.

Mr Hyde

Compare what you will, but don't call it an ”apples to apples” comparison, when you ignored what was truly a much more equivalent matchup that had a similar transmission and tires.
You also happened to pick the model that almost no one actually purchased.

PreludeVTEC01

I didn't purchase the TLX to go around the Nürburgring circuit. It's a great car/value. Drive amazing with some sportiness to back it up. Simple as that for me. I just don't get why some of you continuously come into here and bash the TLX over and over. Especially when you have no interest in the car and definitely don't plan on purchasing one. It's like it has a personal affect on your life?

AZuser

You call it bashing. I (can't speak for anyone else) call it comparing the new TLX vs the outgoing model vs its competition. It's what one does to stay on top of things should the day come where you decide you want a new car. It's also what car enthusiasts do.

If we didn't have any interest in the TLX, then we wouldn't have followed the development of it from concept to pre-production to production, or talked about every piece of news that came out for it.

Yes, I currently don't plan on buying a TLX today or tomorrow or even the day after. The same goes for the IS350, 335, A4/S4, A5/S5, Genesis, Equus, Poopdick McFartington, etc. Does that mean I can't or shouldn't follow up with what's happening even though I may be in the market one day?

Why do so many of you get so worked up when someone points out that the TLX isn't that much, if anything, of an improvement in certain areas over the outgoing TL (or its competition)? It's not like the Edmunds test results have been talked about before. This is a completely new topic, not something being rehashed.

And for the record (again), I still think the TLX is a solid car and a good value, and it will sell well. But as more and more reviews come out, it's starting to show that it's not the home run it should have/could have been.

weather

For me, I'd like to get a TLX at some point but my reason for being here because I have enjoyed the conversations, the people and getting to get a sense of how the TLX is doing, not just in sale, but in reliability.

I have learned that rushing out the gate to get the newest model has some drawback and judging by some of the comments in the problem section, there are a few bugs that need to be worked out.

Should Acura improve or convince me that the car will respond better and can reprogram the lag that many have reported, I'll be the first to revise my decision and drop some money on the counter....I like MANY things about the TLX and think it is a great car....it just needs a few tweaks and then I'll be back

...and for the record, I am the least interested or worried about 0-60mph so count me out as one of those who obsessed with straight line acceleration.

Mr Hyde

Been on forums from days of dial up, AOL car forums, H-A.net, TL.com, Acurazine, Bimmerfest/forums, Audizine, Quattro world, etc, etc, etc.

Every time a new model comes out, you'll find people who owned the previous version posting about how their version was better, how things are so much worse now, how brand X has lost its way. It's been that way since the beginning, across all makes and models.

It is....... The Circle of Life..

4thaccord

You could also ask the exact opposite:
"I just don't get why some of you continuously come into here and defend the TLX over and over. Especially when you have a vested interest in the car and have already purchased one. It's like it has a personal affect on your life."

For me, there is something "missing" if a brand new car needs this much defending and rationalization for purchase.

weather

Mr Hyde....I agree that many have a hard time embracing change, for me, I welcome change. That is why I lease cars so I can trade every 3 years. I LOVE LOVE LOVE new vehicles and I get bored with mine.

I couldn't wait to get my 2009 TSX and let my 2007 TSX go....LOVED my 09. THen I couldn't wait to get my 2012 TL and get rid of my TSX. Loved my '12.

Love the ILX in so many ways and sure it doesn't feel as luxurious as my TL or the TLX and it doesn't have the tech that the TLX has, but I just get more fun out of driving it.

For me, my toy is a vehicle I want to have fun driving....I don't look for oozing of comfort as I never go on long haul with them, I don't need drivers nannies because I live in a small town with no traffic but we have gorgeous little country side road with twisties so I want a fun and exhilarating handling and I just find the TLX is not as fun as what I had or expected.

It does many things right and I think it is a great car....not just for me at the moment. If I have more test driving experience and my perception changes, then I'll get one. I love the way it looks, especially with the body kit.

OSTRICH....Which color are you going with??

Colin

The corollary is that after the "hated" car has been out for five years, it becomes the incumbent and is now beloved as the next new one arrives.

I've been online since Compuserve, people's behaviour has gone downhill although there were always a few bad eggs.

Mr Hyde

Seriously ? You could ask that, but why would you? It's a bit ridiculous.

So the people who actually bought the car shouldn't post in the forum dedicated to their vehicle? Where should they post, the 4G forum taking shots at the members there?

The people who actually own the car shouldn't respond to the people who are here just to bash it?

You ask if his vehicle that he just paid $30-40k + has a personal affect on his life. Since this is Acurazine, a forum for automotive enthusiasts, and not gardeningzine, I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes it does.

SeismicGuy

An incredibly impressive vehicle (in the price range and type) in terms of 0-60 time is the Infiniti Q50. I keep seeing these around and they are always tearing away for a red light leaving most other in the dust. If I was in the market right now I would be seriously considering the Q50 as it seems best bang-for-the-buck.

PreludeVTEC01

Hah right on. I had my flame suit ready for my post but I had to let it out. I have never had a new model so this is new grounds for me. Hopefully in the next few months it will all fade away....