sleepinxlionhart

I'd just like to share some of my impressions on the 2016 TLX Tech pack V6 w/ 2k miles loaner that I had for a day. Please keep in mind that I'm not here to start any arguments or flamewars, just my own opinion on it. Also please keep in mind I'm coming from a 2005 RL w/ SH-AWD. First of all, starting from the fit and finish, pretty good for the most part, except I'd noticed that between where the fender and A-pillar meets, there's a noticeable gap between it, the fender isn't flush w/ the A-pillar, to the point that I can push the fender down. That was honestly surprising. Interior was pretty decent, no rattles. Not sure how I felt about the material for the dash. As for driving impressions go, it really didn't do anything for me. I tested the car out on the mountain roads where I live, and it just felt really nose heavy, and understeered quite a bit, it just didn't inspire confidence in cornering w/ the P-AWS system vs. the SH-AWD. I wasn't able to push the car hard enough around corners like I can w/ the RL, even though the TLX is 500lbs lighter, but again, the RL has the SH-AWD. I suppose this isn't an apples to apples comparison because I didn't have the SH-AWD version of the TLX. and then there's the 9spd...it just doesn't feel responsive enough, sluggish, as if it's searching for the gears. My overall conclusion is that for a car that stickers for 41k, it has a lot left to be desired...driving impressions alone. Right now, there's nothing in the Acura lineup that gets me excited, except for the NSX. On the other hand, Honda seems to be hitting it out of the ball park...so Acura really needs to step up their game. Hopefully the new precision crafted performance concept can inject some needed excitement in the brand.

WheelMcCoy

I always figured SH-AWD can make elephants dance (MDX), but since you noticed its absence, I see sedans can benefit too. I've also heard the V6 can be nose-heavy.

Yep, Acura's current lineup doesn't quite excite. The new NSX does, but not as much as the original NSX did. Agreed, Honda, in contrast, is on a tear.

sleepinxlionhart

YEah, seems like Acura's strengths right now are on their RDX and MDX..without those two sales would be pretty bad. Saw a truckload of new MDXs being offloaded at the dealer yesterday as well.

TacoBello

Curious- how is the body roll compare between the two? I'd imagine the RL is a little softer, no?

saturno_v

Exacly...contrary to the Acura tradition, the TLX actually offers poor value for the money vs the competition.

P.S.

I do not know if you are aware of this but the SH-AWD system used in the TLX is significantly simplified compared to your RL, it is more similar to any AWD on demand system used by other manufacturers.

Saintor

No offense, but it drives better than both of your cars.

You didn't have time to warm up and you probably didn't even try the Sport + mode; without it you only saw Dr Jekyll and no Mr Hyde. It is not the best, but easily among the best value for the money vs the competition. And if you think that AWD is a must for good handling, this is an error.

BTW AWD found in your MDX and also in the TLX is much superior and complex to the one that have in the old RL. It features torque vectoring, meaning that torque will be transferred in the back from one side to another. This is done thanks to an advanced differential (with a clutch - expensive stuff). The RDX doesn't have it.

saturno_v

sleepinxlionhart

Read this technical article about the different types of SH-AWD and you will understand why the TLX feels different on the road than your RL....because it is...quite cheapened and simplified....is nothing more than an Haldex with two clutch packs instead of one.

"ACURA SH-AWD: A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS"

Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis (Updated Jan.8, 2016) - YouWheel.com - Car News and Review

sleepinxlionhart

I actually have the A-spec suspension on my RL. So I find that the TLX has more body roll. Not sure how it would compared to a RL w/ stock suspension.

sleepinxlionhart

Hmm, very interesting. I would be interested in testing a TLX w/ SH-AWD vs my car. I do have a 2016 MDX w/ SH-AWD, but since it's an SUV, it's harder to compare to see if there's any substantial difference between the two while driving.

sleepinxlionhart

Yep, I tried it in the Sport + mode. My RL is the first gen of SH-AWD, which has torque vectoring, so...not sure what you're point here. But again, I stated previously this is a FWD TLX, it would be interesting if I could tes the SH-AWD TLX though.

saturno_v

Your SH-AWD is significantly more sophisticated than the system used in the TLX and, I suspect, more durable too (no confirmation yet but a safe assumption once you understand how it works).

The TLX, as a whole, is mid pack competitive with mainstream midsize sedans and decisively outclassed by true premium sport sedans.

saturno_v

He has no point that's the point (pun intended )....read the things he says in other threads...it's easier to just ignore him.

neil0311

Two comments:

I spent weeks shopping for cars in this segment in Nov 2015. I disagree strongly with your assertion. I have the TLX SH-AWD Tech and it has some of the best value in the segment, as has been recognized by Edmunds and others.

Secondly, not sure you've researched the AWD system in the TLX. You're comment makes no sense to me. I'm not familiar with the RL, but the SH-AWD system in the TLX is a torque vectoring system quite different from those used by other mfgs.

Saintor

Not in the back.

Don't bother to listen to that stupid Datsun troll who just ASS-umes. Why he spends so much time here is just matter of dishonesty.

If you enjoy your MDX, there is zero reason to dismiss the TLX, as they share the exact powertrain but the TLX is much lighter (try 900lbs) and has a lower center of gravity - all wins.

saturno_v

...if all you know are Acura products, yes it is very value competitive...with itself.

Read that document I posted and everything will be clear to you.

Saintor

Yeah it is clear that the MDX/TLX SH-AWD is the same and that it is way more sophisticated and efficient than systems 10 years ago or even a 2010 TL.

sleepinxlionhart

lol. got it. I was really excited when it first debuted, but sorely disappointed after yesterday. And that GT package..

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. The TLX is still a great value in the entry level market.

Mr Hyde

Lol. Most would do better to ignore this frequently identified troll who has barely had a single positive post in this forum.
​​​​
The newer SH-AWD systems have less components than before, are much smaller, lighter, and more efficient than before. This allows superior performance, with great fuel economy. The new system still puts power to the rear all the time, and provides true torque vectoring which is very apparent in the bends. It also has less situations where it fails to gain traction compared to the old versions. The only downside is more heat and more frequent diff fluid changes.

I am not surprised the OP wasn't happy with a FWD TLX coming from his RL. After going from several FWD cars to 2 rear wheel drive vehicles, and then finally back to FWD again, I was pretty set that all my future vehicles would be FWD or AWD. The FWD TLX showed up first at my dealership. The rear steering is very obvious in the bends as well, but the torque steer, and other FWD characteristics confirmed it wasn't what I wanted. When the SH-AWD showed up, I signed on the dotted line for an Advance right after the test drive.

saturno_v

The newer system is a simplification of the older one, the resulted superior efficiency (fuel economy) depends mostly on the whole package (meaning the car where is bolted on) as I suspect that as a standalone component there is not much efficiency gain, actually probably the opposite (more friction and work for the clutch packs). I'm ready to read some technical material and tests where the new system is demonstrably more efficient. Yes is lighter because, again, it is a simplified version without the step up gear set.

That alone, put the efficiency claim in doubt.....however, as i said before,I do not object to the fact that the cars where the new system is bolted on are more fuel efficient than the previous ones as a whole for other reasons.

Mr Hyde

​​​​​What for? If you find anything positive it's not like you'd actually acknowledge it. It wouldn't fit your negative agenda.

Your own link above mentions how this system does better in situations where the old one would allow the vehicle to become immobile. You implied the system is less durable due to heat, but forgot to mention the upgraded materials to deal with the heat. Also no mention of torque vectoring at all. Of course this isn't a surprise to anyone who has witnessed your negative campaign. You're drawn to negativity, and compelled to post the same, like a fly drawn to....

Regarding efficiency, if only Acura made the same vehicle with the identical engine and transmission with the exception of the AWD system that could be compared to, to see how great a job they did minimizing the mpg hit with the system.

BEAR-AvHistory

On 4X4 systems all mine are true 4X4's with high low range transfer cases & not performance enhancing systems so I don't have a puppy in this debate. That said on any mechanical device heat is bad. if I have read the old vs new article correctly the new unit with have to absorb & dissipate 70% more heat than the old one.

Other cars like the Camaro, Corvette, Mustang GT350TP because of their designed usage also generate a lot of heat in the differential. They also have differential oil coolers as standard equipment. For what its worth their differential oil change schedule every 45K miles in severe use. The TLX has a 7500mile change in hard use & 15K in not so hard use.

Since its heat that breaks down the oil it suggests that HONDA's change schedule does recognize it as a potential issue. The old system AFAIK has the same change schedule.

Saintor

As dumb as saying that new engines have no carburetor, thus are simplification of the older ones. Zero function was lost, TO THE CONTRARY.

Yeah he has obviously limited or no capacity to understand the hyperlinks that he thinks or ass-umes, match his agenda.

saturno_v

There is no agenda.....again, waiting for some posted technical articles or tests where the new system is more efficient..

Read that link again, they only added a 1% additional overdrive in the rear wheels (2.7% vs. 1.7%) in the extreme situations (meaning unlikely as the article clearly specify) where the TL SH-AWD may become ineffective (not the RL SH-AWD which has an acceleration device). Why should I specifically mention Torque Vectoring?? Both system (old and new) deliver true active Torque Vectoring (vs. brake based Torque Vectoring of many competitors) so no need to point that.

The new system is mechanically inferior to the old one because it let only the clutches carry the entire workload (increased heat and wear in the long run, more frequent replacement of the diff fluid)....any person with a passable understanding of mechanics would realize that. It is mechanically not different than any other part time AWD systems (no part time AWD system that I know is truly part time anymore, there is always a 3-5% torque sent to the real wheels as a pre-load, unless the system features an axle disconnect for efficiency purposes, i.e. Audi new Quattro Ultra and the some FCA AWD cars ) used by other manufacturers, the only difference is that there is an additional clutch pack to implement Torque Vectoring and a constant 10% torque pass through to the rear wheels.

????

Mr Hyde

Your agenda of badmouthing the TLX at every opportunity, and having nothing positive to say have been pretty obvious to most on this forum.

I know you can't give the TLX any praise, but a benefit is a benefit, and for those of us who live where it snows, or have steep driveways, or early work hours before the roads are fully cleared, we'll take it.

Interesting your comments on something being mechanically inferior, but you chose to go with the DAS system on your Q50 which you raved about (seems like you are the only one on the planet), and also bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee???!!!! I thought trolls lived under bridges, not in glass houses!!

It is a lighter, more efficient design with better performance. Your opinions on it being inferior, or less durable for the tasks at hand are just that; your biased opinions. This is not a RWD pony car sending 100% of power to the rear diff; and it is not a car you take to the track. It has upgraded internals with aggressive service intervals for simple fluid changes.

Most AWD systems used by other manufacturers, especially the ultra quattro, and FCA cars with a disconnect are basically FWD handling wise until they detect slippage. This is why Audi isn't using it in their S/RS model cars. SH-AWD doesn't function this way, and with true torque vectoring vs brake based systems, it seems like the AWD system in the TLX is very competitive in the class for those looking for an AWD option, no matter what you want to admit. When compared to the FWD TLX, this was again done with very little mpg penalty.

If Acura were to abandon this system, or if the TLX didn't have it, then something else would/will be parked in my driveway.

saturno_v

I do not badmouth anything, just describing things the way they are, if there is praise to be given I do...I mentioned the good things about the TLX (it is very quiet) and the cars where the TLX would get my vote.


You described the situation where any decent AWD cars is useful so what particular praise you are looking for??

Please point to where I "raved" about the DAS....I'm all ears....I said, once you get used to it, it is extremely precise and quick, but, yes, it lacks feedback.....pretty much the standard opinion on DAS (by the way, I cannot stress this point more, the Q50 seats suck big time).....like it or not, the GC is considered one of the best SUV in its price range pretty much across the board...is way more value for the money that the TLX (or any current Acura product for that matter) will ever be.....even in base form (Laredo V6), for 30K you get a ton of SUV for the money with the bones, suspension and gearbox of a real premium product....

The fact that the workload is left entirely to the clutch packs and the removal of the step-uo gear set make it simpler and cheaper by definition, anyone understanding a bit of mechanic will tell you that.....the better efficiency claim it's just a claim......ready to change my mind if some actual tests do prove it.

We have a communication issue here....nobody disputed that the TLX SH-AWD is a full real time AWD system (by the way, to be precise the Audi Quattro Ultra and the Chrysler Borg Warner AWD system engage the axle when you select the Sport mode, pre-loading the system with 3-5% of torque to the rear wheels) or that it is better than an Haldex system, the issue at hand is that the current SH-AWD is a cheapened, simplified version of the previous one and that, unfortunately, is a fact, along with other cost -cutting measures Honda has implemented.

Finally, I want to stress again that I have nothing against the TLX per se....at the next iteration if it does pick up some real performance components (suspension, brakes), inject a healthy dose of performance, improves interior quality a bit, add some needed luxury features and get a couple of exhaust pipes I may give it another look....until then....

lltfly

due to Acura replaces the shawd on rdx with crv awd. I believe that the shawd in the TLX is cheaper version shawd. this is how acura does the work in his lineup usually.
drove TLX including fwd and shawd for 2 weeks before, I felt the awd TLX felt different from TL shawd. did not feel same push from back when in the corner. and TLX awd has more body roll, and not same confidence as TL shawd in same corner
shawd is a torque vectoring on rear two wheels.

Civic2TSX

Mods need to stop letting saturno_v RUIN this forum! The incessant rants are so annoying and old!

lltfly

Discovering disadvantages will make human being progress. Compromising on what you already have owned, or cheating yourself with "like to love", get used to, is easier for life only.

sleepinxlionhart

good observation. I've noticed that in my SH-AWD MDX I can't feel the rear getting pushed around the corner as much either, but I always attributed to it being an SUV vs a sedan.

saturno_v

...you call rant what others may consider providing useful information....

TacoBello

Maybe throw in a positive note every once in awhile- more than once every thread, buried somewhere between 18 paragraphs of hate... and you'd likely get a much better response. Even if what you say is all true, the bias in your posts makes it hard to even pay attention to what you're saying, let alone take it for what it's worth.

No need to provide examples of where you said the TLX was good- there's enough hate on the car to be able to differentiate any of it. I'm willing to bet that most people simply ignore your posts... so you're wasting your own time

saturno_v

​​​​​​​Taco, criticizing a car does not represent "hate", you do not hate things...we are all adults (I hope), negative, articulate criticism is as useful as positive praise....actually I would argue that often is more useful....
I offered my fair share of criticism (repeatedly) of the 3 and 5 series on the bimmerfest forum and nobody has ever accused me of hating anything.
​​​​​​​I tend to ignore foul immature language and hysteria that does not add anything to the table.....this a forum after all not a backscratching exercise. Opinions (positive and negative) tend to be repeated for newcomers.

Momyc

I concur, same feeling I had on my TL vs TLX. To be honest I'm regretting changing my TL. I should have look somewhere else to replace my TL. Now I'll swallow the boring car for another year or so, but seeing direction that Acura goes I don't think I will get another version of TLX. Don't get me wrong TLX is a good car (excluding 2015 as I have) but is not geared anymore towards sporty sedan as was the TL, which put a smile on my face every time I drove it. Tlx on the other hand, for me, is just a point A to B drive appliance, which doesn't give me the joy between A to B.

saturno_v

​​​​​​​
Where do you think you will go for your next ride? Any ideas?

Momyc

Too early to say , but definitely A4 (or S4) will be on cards or to some extend a Macan 2.0t (or S) or new Q5/SQ5.
When I shop for TLX , I looked to the actual SQ5 and Macan S . Macan , I discarded because of 11 moths to wait at that time , but for SQ5 I almost pull the trigger , but
for some reasons I didn't push the negotiations to far.
I know , other will say it's not same price bracket , but for me the driving pleasure is no 1.
I test TLX before I got it quite extensively and I thought I'll still like it but after almost 2 years it proved me wrong ,
I'll see what other brands like Audi ,Bmw, Porsche ,Lexus , Infiniti or Mercedes(not too sure about this one) will offer then.

Saintor

That turd was a boat. Case of bad nostalgia. It was the mistake between 3rd GEN and 5th GEN (the fix).

Learn to drive it in S-mode - it delivers.

Momyc

Saintor , I've seen that and the Volvo won , if I'm not wrong.
You see that's the problem , I drive ALWAYS on Sport+ and the feeling is not same as the TL , mostly due to slow tip-in throttle and 9sp ZF which kill all the fun of the car.
Because is a lease is not point to buy now a SprintBooster if my next car wouldn't be a TLX
This is my feeling and maybe for the others TLX is a perfect fit , but not for me.
Rgds.

Saintor

You are wrong; the TLX was quicker.

Again, I don't believe that you always drive on Sport+ (you must be thinking Sport) as there is no slow tip-in throttle in SPORT+/S mode and the 9sp ZF an hell of a companion. All 3 modes ECO, NORMAL, SPORT sacrifice a for the sake of economy, not SPORT+. BMW has the same problem but worse; I had to spend $350 for a module to improve the throttle response.

saturno_v

Just ignore him...you cannot have an actual meaningful conversation with that character....the TLX just wishes to be half of the car the 4G was.....you remember exactly right....congratulation on your next choice, you cannot go wrong with any of the hardware you mentioned....even some modern sporty SUVs (not talking the super souped up version) would run circles around the TLX in its current iteration.