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Not another one of these again, and all based off an article where they based it off using up 1 tank of gas?
For what is less than the cost of 1 cup of coffee per tank of gas, I will follow the manufacturers recommendations for something as basic as fuel, especially since I don't lease my car, and will keep it for more than a couple of years, and more than a couple of tanks worth of gas.
Every mass produced car requiring 91+, no matter how high performing won't explode using regular, just like they won't explode using crappy oil, filters, etc, etc. So yes they can run on things below the specs that were designed for, but the recommendations are the recommendations for a reason.
Just a reminder this is the TLX forum, so stay on topic please.
the funny thing is... CR likely still had a few gallons of 91 in the car when they filled it up with 87... yup, one tank isn't very indicative of anything.
the funny thing is... CR likely still had a few gallons of 91 in the car when they filled it up with 87... yup, one tank isn't very indicative of anything.
From the article:
In order to purge the cars of premium that could be in the fuel system, we drove them nearly dry, then ran through a full tank of regular gas before starting testing.
Last regular I paid was $1.08/L. Premium was $1.21 and "89" was $1.18, too close to make a difference.
you left out the rest of my post, i agree which is why i said
"just put mid grade 89 if you are looking to save money, but IMHO luxury car buyers have a little more to spend thats why they went with an acura over a honda
why worry about a few extra cents, especially if the person owns a 2.4 over the v6"
Originally Posted by TacoBello
What does nearly dry mean? In my 3G TL, even when it says "0km until empty", and the needle looks buried, there's still 2 gallons left in the tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by niray9
I'm sure CR has additional equipment in their garages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoBello
Assumptions...
My feeling is that Acura requires it as the HP would fall under 200hp without it, giving them a perceived weakness in the marketplace vs the competition.
Cars run better on better fuel and outside of the HP I’m sure the noise, quality and other dynamics are better on 91+.
The engine is a variant of the tried and true K-series engines, most or all of which ran on Regular unleaded fine. I believe this is the reason.
Good lord, this has been discussed to death at this point but will add my 2 cents in. I have had both the 07 type S, 17 tlx fwd and 18 v6 aspec. Only the 07 ran poorly (and noticably so) on anything but premium (knocking, pinging and all kinds of bad noises on the one tank I tried of regular), more so the hotter the outside temp was the worse it ran and more knock and pinging which is very bad. Used premium in it for the life and no issues and would never ever try regular again in that car. The 17/18 v6 there was no noticable difference in one grade vs another. Never a knock or ping under heavy acceleration and high temps. Gain what little you can from that or more. Also had an early 3 series bmw that wouldn't even idle steady on anything but premium so that's what I used. There is a difference between 'premium reccomended vs required" The TLX falls in the "recomended" bucket. Most people should notice the difference in one tank. If you don't that a good indicator. Cost wasn't a factor for me, I just saw no observable benefit. Could be different from car to car. I will say in my own real life experience when the grade was too low it was clearly obvious the octane was not adequate.
Good lord, this has been discussed to death at this point but will add my 2 cents in. I have had both the 07 type S, 17 tlx fwd and 18 v6 aspec. Only the 07 ran poorly (and noticably so) on anything but premium (knocking, pinging and all kinds of bad noises on the one tank I tried of regular), more so the hotter the outside temp was the worse it ran and more knock and pinging which is very bad. Used premium in it for the life and no issues and would never ever try regular again in that car. The 17/18 v6 there was no noticable difference in one grade vs another. Never a knock or ping under heavy acceleration and high temps. Gain what little you can from that or more. Also had an early 3 series bmw that wouldn't even idle steady on anything but premium so that's what I used. There is a difference between 'premium reccomended vs required" The TLX falls in the "recomended" bucket. Most people should notice the difference in one tank. If you don't that a good indicator. Cost wasn't a factor for me, I just saw no observable benefit. Could be different from car to car. I will say in my own real life experience when the grade was too low it was clearly obvious the octane was not adequate.
Going back to fsttyms post:
"Just because you don't hear it doesn't mean its not happening. Hook up a live data recorder and watch the difference".
Could not hear it in my post with the engine data graph. Wonder if anyone uses mid-grade as a 87-91/93 alternative.
Interesting how polarizing this topic is as I read through the thread. My tl;dr response is that I typically choose midgrade when it's available. Where it's not, I typically lean toward premium. But I have no problem grabbing a tank of regular when I'm visiting an urban area with high gas prices. I personally have never noticed a significant MPG fluctuation given any tank, nor have I felt any loss or boost in acceleration. I'm always around 25-28mpg to each tank.
The science is clear though. I'm a big fan of science. The cool thing about science is it's true whether or not you believe it. Octane is related to compression ratio. That's a fact. An engine designed with a certain compression ratio will run optimally on certain octane gas. When these don't match, the engine will run "not optimally." That's a fact too. The manufacturer recommends premium because that is how the car is designed to run. You don't have to use premium, but the car won't run optimally on regular.
The strengths of the opinions expressed herein made me curious to know what the actual dollars indicate. They're not insignificant.
Those who run regular spend between $240-$360 less per year, or one car payment. Regular is $9 less per 15gal fill up than premium. You fill up about 20-26 times a year. Math, much like science, doesn't lie. So extrapolating over a 20 year vehicle life and you can see you can save $3,500 to over $7,000, or a new engine.
The truth is that few people drive vehicles for long enough to realize much savings, or to see if regular vs. premium causes long-term damage. I mean, in the chart above, driving 20 years on strictly regular affords you one trip to Disney World, all the while exposing engine components to heat and forces to which they're not designed. I knew premium was recommended when I bought the car. If I cared so much about that, I should have bought something that required regular. While $9 extra per tank can feel painful for some, to me, I'd rather drive a car with its designed performance and longevity. I actually find it a little irresponsible for a reputable and knowledgeable car publication to try experiments like these and recommend anything except what the manufacturer does.
Eating fast food for three meals a day over the course of a week, a month or even a year probably won't kill you, but your body won't feel good, look good or function optimally.
Interesting how polarizing this topic is as I read through the thread. My tl;dr response is that I typically choose midgrade when it's available. Where it's not, I typically lean toward premium. But I have no problem grabbing a tank of regular when I'm visiting an urban area with high gas prices. I personally have never noticed a significant MPG fluctuation given any tank, nor have I felt any loss or boost in acceleration. I'm always around 25-28mpg to each tank.
The science is clear though. I'm a big fan of science. The cool thing about science is it's true whether or not you believe it. Octane is related to compression ratio. That's a fact. An engine designed with a certain compression ratio will run optimally on certain octane gas. When these don't match, the engine will run "not optimally." That's a fact too. The manufacturer recommends premium because that is how the car is designed to run. You don't have to use premium, but the car won't run optimally on regular.
The strengths of the opinions expressed herein made me curious to know what the actual dollars indicate. They're not insignificant.
Those who run regular spend between $240-$360 less per year, or one car payment. Regular is $9 less per 15gal fill up than premium. You fill up about 20-26 times a year. Math, much like science, doesn't lie. So extrapolating over a 20 year vehicle life and you can see you can save $3,500 to over $7,000, or a new engine.
The truth is that few people drive vehicles for long enough to realize much savings, or to see if regular vs. premium causes long-term damage. I mean, in the chart above, driving 20 years on strictly regular affords you one trip to Disney World, all the while exposing engine components to heat and forces to which they're not designed. I knew premium was recommended when I bought the car. If I cared so much about that, I should have bought something that required regular. While $9 extra per tank can feel painful for some, to me, I'd rather drive a car with its designed performance and longevity. I actually find it a little irresponsible for a reputable and knowledgeable car publication to try experiments like these and recommend anything except what the manufacturer does.
Eating fast food for three meals a day over the course of a week, a month or even a year probably won't kill you, but your body won't feel good, look good or function optimally.
Guaranty 95% of TLX owners are running regular in their cars and none of them will notice a difference if they filled with premium. MPG and HP increase are near nothing. Your transmission is likely to go twice before you have any engine problems from running regular grade gas in a TLX. The advantages or lack there of any running premium in a car that does not require it and does't knock or ping under stress are written up in many places. Bought premium for 10 years in my premium required car due to engine knock/unstable idle on lower grade gas. I have never heard the TLX knock or ping even in the summer up hill accelerating with the AC on. If I did then I would put premium in every time even though I am not keeping the car for more than 3 to 4 years. The cost of the car isn't a factor in what grade gas it requires. If premium gives peace of mind then it's what you should pump into it. Nobody should feel they damaging their engine using non-premium fuel in the current TLX. If the next gen comes out with "premium required" then that's what should be used. That is not the case now.
Interesting how polarizing this topic is as I read through the thread. My tl;dr response is that I typically choose midgrade when it's available. Where it's not, I typically lean toward premium. But I have no problem grabbing a tank of regular when I'm visiting an urban area with high gas prices. I personally have never noticed a significant MPG fluctuation given any tank, nor have I felt any loss or boost in acceleration. I'm always around 25-28mpg to each tank.
The science is clear though. I'm a big fan of science. The cool thing about science is it's true whether or not you believe it. Octane is related to compression ratio. That's a fact. An engine designed with a certain compression ratio will run optimally on certain octane gas. When these don't match, the engine will run "not optimally." That's a fact too. The manufacturer recommends premium because that is how the car is designed to run. You don't have to use premium, but the car won't run optimally on regular.
The strengths of the opinions expressed herein made me curious to know what the actual dollars indicate. They're not insignificant.
Those who run regular spend between $240-$360 less per year, or one car payment. Regular is $9 less per 15gal fill up than premium. You fill up about 20-26 times a year. Math, much like science, doesn't lie. So extrapolating over a 20 year vehicle life and you can see you can save $3,500 to over $7,000, or a new engine.
The truth is that few people drive vehicles for long enough to realize much savings, or to see if regular vs. premium causes long-term damage. I mean, in the chart above, driving 20 years on strictly regular affords you one trip to Disney World, all the while exposing engine components to heat and forces to which they're not designed. I knew premium was recommended when I bought the car. If I cared so much about that, I should have bought something that required regular. While $9 extra per tank can feel painful for some, to me, I'd rather drive a car with its designed performance and longevity. I actually find it a little irresponsible for a reputable and knowledgeable car publication to try experiments like these and recommend anything except what the manufacturer does.
Eating fast food for three meals a day over the course of a week, a month or even a year probably won't kill you, but your body won't feel good, look good or function optimally.
We live in an age where facts aren't mandatory It's all emotion-driven and butt-dyno > science.
I'm not really sure what to make of your post. It's really hard to tell what your message is without dissecting it.
Originally Posted by jhb31
Guaranty 95% of TLX owners are running regular in their cars and none of them will notice a difference if they filled with premium.
This statement is really derpy. It's like the Billy Madison debate answer. There is no science, fact, math or evidence here. You guaranteeing that 95% of TLX drivers fill up with regular isn't based on research or study. It's probably not even true. But in line with your overly sweeping assumption, if they do strictly fill up with regular, then they will never observe any benefits of premium or be able to even compare.
Originally Posted by jhb31
MPG and HP increase are near nothing.
I'm pretty sure a dyno in a perfectly controlled experiment with an engine and variety of gasolines would prove this assertion wrong.
Originally Posted by jhb31
Your transmission is likely to go twice before you have any engine problems from running regular grade gas in a TLX.
This is plausible, but not really backed by knowledge. It's more of a guess. I know a lot of vehicles driven by a lot of people whose transmissions outlasted their engines and vice versa.
Originally Posted by jhb31
The advantages or lack there of any running premium in a car that does not require it and does't knock or ping under stress are written up in many places.
This is true, but I never said anyone should run premium in an engine that doesn't require it. That is literally burning money.
Originally Posted by jhb31
Bought premium for 10 years in my premium required car due to engine knock/unstable idle on lower grade gas.
Higher octane should have fixed the knocking, so I'm glad it indeed worked for you.
Originally Posted by jhb31
I have never heard the TLX knock or ping even in the summer up hill accelerating with the AC on. If I did then I would put premium in every time even though I am not keeping the car for more than 3 to 4 years.
Just because you can't hear knocking doesn't mean that the engine is running at maximum efficiency. Your 3-4 year clarification is why I said that most people won't own a car long enough to see if gas effects longevity.
Originally Posted by jhb31
The cost of the car isn't a factor in what grade gas it requires.
Umm, where did I insinuate anything remotely close to this?
Originally Posted by jhb31
If premium gives peace of mind then it's what you should pump into it. Nobody should feel they damaging their engine using non-premium fuel in the current TLX.
I never said regular does damage. I'm saying the engine will run "non optimally" if the compression doesn't match the octane.
Originally Posted by jhb31
If the next gen comes out with "premium required" then that's what should be used. That is not the case now.
You sound like the kind of guy whose doctor would recommend more vegetables and you'd leave his office saying "glad he didn't require more vegetables."
Clearly this topic strikes a chord with you. That's fine. I shared why I act a certain way. You argued with my way without much substance. So that's one power of forums.
Since we are back on octane thought I would post this current thread item from a BMW octane debate.
OP wanted to know if he should go to 100 octane for track day instead of his normal 93 stock 440 with the MPPSK package. Usual set of response as we would see here I suggested this.
"Could help if the engine heats up while running. Will put off knock better then 93 under high heat, high load"
&
"Have not tracked the 440i B58M. Last BMW to be tracked was the 335is. It was run stock with 50/50 93/100 & drag raced JB4/COBB with pure 100. The COBRA replaced it & the 435i N55M I got at the same time went to second choice DD duty.
Its not oil or water you need to watch its the air inlet temperature. The B58 water cooled intercooler might be better but the air 2 air N54/55 would heat soak quickly. This generally required an aftermarket unit. I ran an ECS unit.
If you have scanning tool it can be useful to track that temperature to see how you are doing ambient vs inlet.
FWIW 100 is cheap insurance for a track day that will prevent an ignition pulls under load. I was getting mine at the pump in Cary NC for $7.10 a gallon at the time."
Its an incorrect urban legend that high octane fuel will go unburned & cause issues. Its also an urban legend that it will harm you car.
The only thing harmed is your wallet if you buy more octane then you need.
For DD & an occasionally hard moonshine back road run NC's normal premium @ 93 octane is fine. If I ever take it to VIR it will go on a 100/93 mix."
FWIW the BMW 440MPPSK is tuned for 93 octane
*****Most posts were don't do it it will do nothing, to you will have more unburned gas, etc all the usual stuff.*****
When the rubber met the road he posted this.
"Good call brotha!"
Today's experience feeding 100 Octane to a B58M (440i + MPPSK)
NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE.
I did 10 laps on 93 and 12 laps on 100 octane.
It was a very obvious increase in power/boost.
Next time, you're wondering if it's worth it or ok to do it: If you're ok with 10+ $/gal it is absolutely worth it.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-02-2019 at 07:19 PM.
I'm not really sure what to make of your post. It's really hard to tell what your message is without dissecting it.
This statement is really derpy. It's like the Billy Madison debate answer. There is no science, fact, math or evidence here. You guaranteeing that 95% of TLX drivers fill up with regular isn't based on research or study. It's probably not even true. But in line with your overly sweeping assumption, if they do strictly fill up with regular, then they will never observe any benefits of premium or be able to even compare.
I'm pretty sure a dyno in a perfectly controlled experiment with an engine and variety of gasolines would prove this assertion wrong.
This is plausible, but not really backed by knowledge. It's more of a guess. I know a lot of vehicles driven by a lot of people whose transmissions outlasted their engines and vice versa.
This is true, but I never said anyone should run premium in an engine that doesn't require it. That is literally burning money.
Higher octane should have fixed the knocking, so I'm glad it indeed worked for you.
Just because you can't hear knocking doesn't mean that the engine is running at maximum efficiency. Your 3-4 year clarification is why I said that most people won't own a car long enough to see if gas effects longevity.
Umm, where did I insinuate anything remotely close to this?
I never said regular does damage. I'm saying the engine will run "non optimally" if the compression doesn't match the octane.
You sound like the kind of guy whose doctor would recommend more vegetables and you'd leave his office saying "glad he didn't require more vegetables."
Clearly this topic strikes a chord with you. That's fine. I shared why I act a certain way. You argued with my way without much substance. So that's one power of forums.
You read too deep into the post. My response was directed more at the thread topic in general as it's been re-hashed many times. I would say if you are buying a 4 cyl and going to run premium in it then get the v6 and run it on regular. Biggest performance boost for the dollar. Not many threads if any for motor problems from the octane of gas run in them.
Since we are back on octane thought I would post this current thread item from a BMW octane debate.
NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE.
I did 10 laps on 93 and 12 laps on 100 octane.
It was a very obvious increase in power/boost.
Next time, you're wondering if it's worth it or ok to do it: If you're ok with 10+ $/gal it is absolutely worth it.
Bear, I agree totally on a track car, particular a built engine the octane will give major boost. The TLX will not see a much improvement if anything from premium to regular. Nobody in their right mind is putting 100 octane in a TLX.
Bear, I agree totally on a track car, particular a built engine the octane will give major boost. The TLX will not see a much improvement if anything from premium to regular. Nobody in their right mind is putting 100 octane in a TLX.
Agree, would not use anymore octane then required hence my statement " The only thing harmed is your wallet if you buy more octane then you need." It was just an example of how a car can effectively use more octane then listed just as it can use less.
There could be a lot of instances where a TLX could more effectively use premium vs regular. A loaded car going on vacation for example.
Anytime the engine is under load or the hotter the weather the octane requirement can change upward. My general thought is most people drive 10/12K miles per year would only spend a few hundred dollars more a year to have insurance in the tank. My trucks both run on 87 unless I am going to load then & will add 93 for a top off.
Only other comment is you can have knock below the human hearing threshold so not hearing it is not a valid statement. The guy in the BMW thread did not hear any knock on his initial normal gas laps.
BTW the MPPSK is a normal production option 320BHP (331WHP Dyno) raised to 355BHP (369WHP Dyno) & its not a heavy mod, just a light tune increase. The current pure stock base I6T "G" generation 340/440 is listed as 383BHP
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-03-2019 at 09:17 AM.
What is more important is the latex CR report on Top Tier gas. Basically they saw a difference in build up at 4K miles. Skip premium and go get top tier regular.
^KeithL: Great point. Thanks for referencing that. I always wondered about "top tier" claims. I just looked up and read that study. Looks legit. Around my area, we have Costco gas and Kwik Trips, which are on the retailer list, so I'll start seeking those out.
I'm no expert on the subject, but I've also wondered about ethanol. I don't know if this issue is exclusive to the Midwest. I thought ethanol (10%) was added to all gas around here regardless of retailer, which we should all hate, because it not surprisingly results in about a 10% loss of efficiency. Or something like that. Running E85 is worse (for FFV vehicles with special rubber and plastic that can handle that much ethanol) - like a 15-30% reduction. So it's "renewable" but less efficient. But when I see a sign on certain pumps that say "no ethanol added" - I'm skeptical that's true but pump that instead of E10.
I've also wondered about brands that advertise special premium gas. Mobil Synergy, BP Invigorate and Shell V-Power come to mind. I've always had in my mind these are superior premiums to others. No idea if that's true or not, but they market the heck out of their superiority. Any petrochemical engineers here care to weigh in?
Ethanol is a two edged sword. Its an octane enhancer but has less BTU's then gasoline. So will prevent knock but decrease fuel mileage. With turbo engines is called "poor mans race gas". If you add E85 to 93 in about a 30/35% proportion you can get a considerable increase in power over straight 93. You will suffer reduced MPG & if the mix is too rich your fuel pump will not keep up & needs upgrading.
Just something to keep in mind with the DOHC V6T in the next TLX.
FWIW or not. Is 72*F here today & the street surface is warm. Tried an experiment. Was low on fuel so I recorded a 0-60mph run on the BMW Lap timer that is built into my cars iDrive system. Made a 93 octane run.
Car & Driver claims 4.2 seconds for my car but I did not match it. Put in 5 gallons of 100 octane.
Same section of street in both cases use launch control & let the car shift on its own. Short quick burnout to heat the Summer Tires. The more adventurist here should have a lot of fun with the new TLX.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-04-2019 at 01:00 PM.
Quick HiJack. Don't have a Go-Pro but this is with full integration. Have the other presentations but not the video.
These systems, of more or less detail, a pretty common in some other makes. My neighbors 2018 StingRay has something similar but his camera is built into the car as part of the package & generates more data. My son in law has some kind of system in his Porsche.
Be nice if Acura offers one in the Type S when it comes out.
OK will be good now & stay on topic.
On Top Tier gas its about cleaning additives not pure octane. I get Costco whenever I can or Shell just down the road on the discount program. At one time Costco did not offer the high end detergent package in 87. Its what you need to watch out for in "Non Top Tier" gas.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-04-2019 at 01:33 PM.
06-01-2016, 09:20 AM
It's all emotion-driven and butt-dyno > science.
