Tony Pac

Based on what I am reading for the past couple of months, the 2018 TLX will have some minor changes. I think the two major changes will be the front and exhaust tips. Do you guys think TLX will be the first car in Acura's lineup to have new technology and engine? Basically new engine, infotainment, dashboard and etc.? A complete redesign? If not TLX, which vehicle do you guys think will be?

MDX?
ILX?
RDX?
RLX?

I am curious to see a revamped Acura

Infiniti is coming up with a new concept for QX50. If they really apply the new concept to QX50 2018-9. I am sure their sales will increase. But I must say they are trying to copy Lexus.

Happy New Year 2017 to AZ members. Wish you all a fantastic year!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it's known that the MDX will get the SH-SH-AWD mid 2017.

sedans in general havent been selling well

RDX10

It should be the 3G RDX because it was first to have the full model change in 2013, followed by MDX and TLX (I think RLX was 2014?). So the next model set for a full redesign is the RDX for the 2019 model year. However the issue with Acura is that they tend to hold back on the RDX and don't put any of the class leading features in it until they have already been on the MDX (the 2013-2015 RDX had leather, navigation, power lift gate, backup cam, and power seats as it's "luxury" options). Not until 2016 did it get acura watch and a few other features to make it somewhat class competitive.

So that is a really long way of saying Justin is most likely right that it will be the 4G MDX in 2020 to showcase all the new tech, design language...etc. I think though that Acura really needs to get it right this time around. I feel that many people no longer consider them when looking at new cars.

Oh and I have seen that qx50 concept, if the other infiniti models look anything like that, they will make a killing.

Tony Pac

Correct! and I agree that the sedan mkt is not doing well. Car companies are investing in crossovers & suvs. MDX will offer a new engine but interior is the same. I referring to a completely new model. For example, 2013 MDX to 2014.

Tony Pac

100%. I will never compare Lexus to Acura since Lexus is in another class now. Acura at least can compete with Infiniti and I cannot see Infiniti outsell Acura

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, I believe you know Acura's model cycle.
the TLX will be a MMC, a mid-model change and not a complete full change.
2020 will be the TLX's turn.

TacoBello

Why does Infiniti sell so poorly? Their cars fill the voids in the luxury market where Acura completely fails- they have RWD vehicles and a V8 option in some cars. They have sporty options, and at least from my limited experience and knowledge, they're fairly reliable.

BEAR-AvHistory

When is Accord do for a new shell?

BEAR-AvHistory

Poor & inconsistent marketing. Like Acura its another car that flies under the radar. Don't think they ever created a reason for being or a basic identity. Most they ever did was stuff like our trunk is bigger than a 3 series.

BEAR-AvHistory

Seems like a good plan, maybe Acura should think about it.

Tony Pac

I hope Acura reads your message

Tony Pac

2020...I hope you are wrong...lol and at least one of Acuras come fully redesigned before 2020.

RDX10

I can tell you 3 MAJOR reasons IMHO about why infiniti sales are not steller.

1 - The way they look. With exception to the q50, q60, and q70 the rest of the lineup is hard to swallow from an aesthetics perspective. The qx50 has to be the ugliest crossover currently on sale and the size/ride height are crap. The qx70 looks better than the qx50 however it is still a very polarizing (I love it, most hate it). The qx80 is...no explanation needed, lexus lx/gx or q7 or land cruiser any day of the week over that. Qx30 is a tall hatchback. So as you can see, without any real crossovers (save for the qx60) for family use at a decently affordable level, the sales are tanking. The qx80 is like 80k iirc.

2 - The size relative to the class meant is odd. The qx50 is too small compared to it's peers both interior and exterior wise. The qx30 is smaller, same with the qx70. The q50 appears somewhat to be competiitve in the 5 series space (however I think it is smaller or larger?) and the q70 is supposed to compete with s-classes and A8's yet it is WAY smaller, and more inline with the e-class size wise. Qx80...we again won't go again.

3 - What is marketing again? They have a really really really shitty marketing department. When you are Audi, or BMW, or Mercedes, or even Lexus, you do not need to advertise your models. But when you are Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, Buick, yes, yes you do need to advertise your models. Something interesting I would like you to pay attention to, is VW commercials. Is there something missing you always notice in their commercials, like ALWAYS, even when they are showing "all" their cars in the lineup? It is that they ALWAYS exclude the Touareg. No matter what, they never ever ever market the Touareg even when showing all other models in one commercial. It is because they think it is too luxurious to advertise and subsequently nobody knows it exists. Sales have been horrible, but not totally stagnant because once you drive it, you love it. But otherwise nobody knows it exists.

It is a HUGE shame though because infiniti's have the nicest interiors both aesthetic and quality wise in their price ranges. Just gorgeous interiors.

randomRon82

Actually.... Infiniti sold 10,000 more cars than Acura globally in 2015... remember the US is ONE market. If you recall a few years back Acura sales surpassed Audi in the US for many years... and again that was only in 1 market. That didn't mean that Acura was more successful overall than Audi.

For 2016... Infiniti's global sales are already on target to break last year's record even further. The new Q60 coupe is doing awesome, the new QX30 crossover is doing awesome.. particularly in Europe. European and China sales have increased substantially... Infiniti is continuing to expand into more and more markets and seeing great growth in them. The QX50 crossover (which is way overdue for a redesign) concept debuts next month and it looks great... production should follow later in the year with a new revolutionary engine that debuted at the Paris auto show... And the new Q80 flagship sedan above the current Q70 (which will be a true flagship to take aim at A8/7 Series/S Class) is supposed to debut soon... the concept debuted in 2014 in Paris. The Q70 competes more with the A6/GS/5 Series/RLX (does Acura have any plans for a true flagship?)

So Infiniti knows what they are doing, they are getting there... they are expanding into new markets (they are extremely serious about their global presence), pumping out new products left and right... listening to their customers. And their strategy is clearly working (we'll see this even more next year)... of course they won't be tier 1 overnight but at least they are taking action to make it a possibility. .. not sure if we can say the same for Acura. Acura will be dependent on the US/Canada market alone because they refuse to expand... and we can clearly see that US sales are plummeting.

In addition to improving marketing.... and with the new products coming to market... Infiniti just needs to redesign some of their older models already. But again, last year they sold 10k more cars than Acura and for 2016 it will be even more than that... so don't let the 1 market fool you. You can't measure a global brand's success by its sales in 1 market alone. Infiniti has the potential.. they are doing something about it and they are definitely on their way. Acura has the potential... are they doing anything with it?? Not so sure.

KeithL

in the US I think the problem Infiniti has is that is someone is going to drop $60K on a Q70 they will get a German car. The Q50 while nice does not compete well against the Germans even though it is nice, but all the bugs in year one hurt it. I loved my M37S and would get another one once they refresh it and update the infotainment and tech. Although the Genesis G80 Sport is looking enticing, eager to see the pricing.

rocket_pup

Their VQ engine variants are almost bullet-proof, but otherwise they use crappy materials that don't last more than 4 or 5 years at most. How many older generation Maxima's do you see on the road? None, at least in So. Cal. (Same for older G35's.) I still see tons of prev gen Accords ( and TLs).

Don't get me wrong, Nissan/Infiniti's are fun to drive (while they last), but their residual value sucks. Toyota and Honda used to be neck and neck, but I think Toyota has the edge these days.

(Full disclosure: I used to work for AHM.)

Tony Pac

Infiniti makes great cars but the resale value is a big issue IMHO. At least in Canada, I see Infiniti cars depreciate much faster than Acura and Lexus. Also, I don't think they last too long. For example, I see 2004 TLs all the time on the road but I barely see 2003-4 G35s.

In Canada, Infiniti sells are about 50-55% of what Acura and Lexus sells. This gives you a good idea where Infiniti as a brand stands....Reliability and higher cost of maintenance are the big factors.

Tony Pac

I agree with you but don't forget we cannot compare them globally since Acura does't sell in many markets. Therefore, to compare apples to apples, we need to to stick to NA. I think Infiniti is smart to expand in other markets but don't ask me why Acura doesn't lol. Acura does a lot of things wrong

We can same the same about Lexus. YTD, Lexus stands 2nd in terms of sells in NA but globally I highly doubt that.

iutodd

The MY2018 TLX is a Mid-Cycle Model Change (MMC). The next Full Model Change (FMC) TLX will be MY2020 at the earliest. The MDX FMC will be MY2019 at the earliest. (both of those are based upon the idea of 5 Model Year runs, but 6 model year runs are not uncommon) The next all-new FMC Acura is TBD it seems but the TLX and MDX are not likely to be that model given that they just had/are soon to have their MMCs.

At the Precision Cockpit launch the language Acura used to describe when the technology and design would be coming read like this:

The RDX and ILX are the two models that make the most sense for the next in line to be "all-new". They both debuted for the 2013 MY, they both had MMCs for their fourth MY (2016), and now they are both in their fifth model year. Unless Acura runs both of them 6 model years it would seem likely that at least one of them would be all-new for MY2018. But the scuttlebutt seems to be that the only thing happening for Acura next year (MY2018) is the TLX MMC.

This article is almost 2 years old and it says that the ILX MMC probably won't happen until 2018 for MY2019.

These spy shots from August are of what appears to be an RDX powertrain mule. Note that the rear window is the new CR-V but the front clearly has the pentagon grille. If Honda is just now in mule stage for the next-gen RDX that probably means either a very late calendar year 2017 launch or an early calendar year 2018 launch. Jeff over at TOV also indicated that the word he was getting was that the next-gen RDX was a ways off still...

What we don't know is what the Precision Cockpit technology will launch on and if Acura will launch anything all-new without that technology. Or if it's a good idea to launch something all-new without the new interior tech and design language. If you take Acura's own wording to be true - "starting in the next few years" probably means that MY2019 (so calendar year 2018) is the earliest we'd see any production Acura's with the cockpit design and technology. I would say that by MY2020 at the latest we'll see it.

But I think the bottom-line is that an all-new ILX and RDX with essentially the same touchscreen as the CR-V would be a pretty big letdown - especially if they both run for 6 model years with basically zero technology updates. We've seen the Precision Cockpit and know it's coming - why launch something all-new without it? Why SHOW US the Precision Cockpit if you weren't going to launch it on your next all-new product? And would it mean those products would have to wait ANOTHER 3-6 years to get the cockpit technology? Look what Audi has done with the Virtual Cockpit. They debuted the tech in 2014 then brought it to the next all-new production model..the TT in 2015. Everything since has gotten it.

Acura debuted the Precision Cockpit in late 2016. They need to bring it to market by 2018 at the latest and they shouldn't launch any new models without it. I know that redesigns have long cycles and I don't want some half-baked tech making things even worse...but they've got to step things up in a big way...

Ideally at the 2017 Los Angeles Auto Show Acura will have a production MY2019 model that will launch in Spring 2018 with the Cockpit tech. At the very latest the 2018 Detroit Auto Show needs one or even two all-new models with the tech.

Tony Pac

iutodd: very good points. thank you for the great input. enjoyed reading your post brother

iutodd

Appreciate it.

A few more additional thoughts.

It seems almost certain that the Chinese-only CDX small SUV will be sold in the US at some point. There is just no reason for Acura to not have an SUV below the RDX when SUVs are so damned popular right now. Even though I'm not crazy about the thought of Acura, freaking ACURA, building a car in China and selling it in the US...Acura would be stupid to not at least consider it when I'm guessing they'd sell 15-25,000 of them without much issue. I'm also not sure the Fit underpinnings are appropriate for Acura in the US - but clearly an SUV priced alongside the ILX is an absolute no-brainer for Acura. Certainly the pieces are all there: 200 hp 1.5T, 8DCT, SHAWD. Where and how they build it is up for debate - Hachigo has been talking about using spare Japanese production capacity for more exports....I think a Japanese built CDX would be a lot better for marketing purposes. North America doesn't have a lot of spare capacity right now - especially for SUVs. Obviously a problem there, again, is bringing something "all-new" without the Precision Cockpit.

There is also the possibility of Acura debuting the Precision Cockpit and design language on something entirely new. There have long been rumblings of an Integra return for instance. And Ikeda himself has discussed the Legend and Integra nameplates as possibilities for the brand. That would eliminate the need to debut the new tech/design language on something like the RDX - which is obviously a very important vehicle, but Acura probably wants to make the biggest splash possible with whatever new production model gets this first.

I'm probably overplaying the "can't do anything new without the Precision Cockpit" angle. As long as vehicles can be updated at their MMCs it probably won't matter too much. I just think Acura needs to make a definitive statement that they are no longer "Honda+" and an all-new RDX or ILX with the CR-V's touchscreen just doesn't do that.

weather

^^ You certainly brought good items to the conversation. I sort of agree with your end of the statement where I don't think Acura must wait for the new interior cockpit before bringing something new to the market. I think they can always modulate the interior at the MMC to fit the new technology. If I was a betting man, I would think the MDX or RLX would be the first to get this new technology, the RLX because its the flagship of the brand (excluding the NSX) or the MDX because it is such a popular vehicle for Acura.

Now, we heard in the past that Acura could release a coupe which would be based on the TLX plateform - I still think in my gut that Acura will instead release this new cockpit with the release of a baby NSX in 2019 as a 2020 MY. Pure speculation on my part but what is the fun of speculating without speculation (lol).

Tony Pac

I hope this becomes true...a coupe Acura

Happy new year! I hope the Canadian weather is treating you well.

boe_d

Based on the glacial response of the design team to Acura's diminishing sedan market my guess is it will be a SUV that gets the first of any new tech. Unless Acura gets a new top dog or some dreadful accident happens to the design team and a talented replacement gets hired.

weather

^^ The SUV might the only product left in the Acura lineup by 2018!! I heard physicists are re-evaluating the value for the gravitational acceleration (g may not be 9.8 m/s2) since they are totally baffled by seeing how fast sales are falling for Acura!

iutodd

This, the TLX-based coupe, is actually one of my favorite rumors. Because clearly we haven't seen it yet AND the TLX is on the "old" platform that is currently being phased out in favor of the new Civic/CR-V/Accord platform. So it seems likely that we won't see a TLX-based coupe (and the Precision Concept and Cockpit almost certainly mean a TLX-based coupe will never happen). IIRC the first time I heard the rumor about a TLX based CLX was on a different site and the rumor was couched in terms of bringing in the competition to benchmark - the 435 and the M4 (!) were specifically mentioned as benchmarks. This was in the summer of 2014 and apparently had multiple insiders talking about it.

Here is why this is my favorite rumor: The business planning office for Acura was formed in February of 2014. The rumor I'm talking about comes from the summer of 2014 - right around the time of the TLX launch itself actually - I think the guys in the planning office (at the time it was Erik Berkman and Mike Accavitti - Marek was involved as well) brought in those two cars specifically to show that whatever Acura had planned for a coupe wasn't going to be good enough. Because the only real possibilities that they would have had at the time to even come close would have been a 310 hp J35 SHAWD and a 377 hp Sport Hybrid. Those cars probably would have been just fine and good. But the 9AT clearly isn't sporting enough and if Acura wants to BEAT those cars it's almost physically impossible to do it with a transverse-FF vehicle. That and an M4 would probably make a Sport Hybrid look foolish on a track. And, the final nail in the coffin, a year or so later - we got the Accord Coupe Touring! It's fun when you can take a rumor and connect the dots like that.

Now who knows what actually happened - but I like to think that the guys in the planning office were trying to prove a point - just like they did with the NSX when they switched from transverse to longitudinal - and it caused Acura to change their minds about a TLX-based coupe because they couldn't meet their benchmarks.

And who knows what they've decided to do instead. The starting price points of those two vehicles (435/M4) are, realistically, the mid-$50s and mid-$70s. Both can get crazy obviously - the M4 can touch $100,000 if it wants to. We just don't know how serious Acura might or might not be here. Clearly RWD and/or at the very least a long layout like Audi would seem to be necessary. A boosted 6 cylinder engine, at the very least, would seem to be necessary. There have been hints of both of those things happening - and hints from actual Acura people....not just internet forum talk.

RDX10

I'm on mobile so can't see if it is in your info, where are you from Tony? I am from Edmonton.

I see G35's all the time, but I think I have a theory as to why you do not. 2 words. Boy Racers. The G is EXTREMELY popular with boys 15-25 and inevitably boys will be boys and absolutely treat them like shit and smash the living hell out of them. Whether it be an accident, a mistake in wet or snowy weather, or just plain redlining the hell out of them (a friend ran his G out of oil killing his engine because apparently it was a high reving version of the VQ in the coupe that burns oil very easily).

One thing I will agree is that the interior absolutely falls apart after a few
years. Trim falls off, things stop working, seals fail...etc. We had a 2006 Murano....good lord that thing had more problems than I could fit on a 50 bullet list. I am not sure if this is the case with newer nissans/infinitis though because they do look and feel YEARS (literally lol) better than the older models interiors did.

Rocket_man

I think we give Acura entirely too much credit. They are a company of habit, they do not change their ways fundamentally. This Precision Cockpit concept is probably about 2 years off and I don't see it rolling through the Acura line up. I think it will be part of the RLX redesign, then the MDX redesign, and it will not roll down into other cars untul thier FMCs. So it will take 6 years to roll it out. By that time it will be obsolete again. Acura just can't roll out new features in parallel, they are stuck in this ridiculous FMC-MMC-FMC block development cycle and never make any substantial changes in the MMC. They need to break this process and go to more continuous improvements

So they get this on the RLX (and sell what, a thousand a year?) a year later it shows up on the MDX and what will the RDX have used? The RDX FMC will be too soon for the new system, it will have the the CR-V system and it will be stuck with that for 6 years because of their block development model. Will this ever show up on the ILX before the TLX? So what then to they put on the ILX??? The Civic system of course.

I would not hold my breath for this new cockpit concept. Just smoke a mirrors right now. I still think it was just a shear act of desperation to show that they have some ideas working, but nothing even close to reality. It is still a concept, the cockpit they showed is a development environment, not even a prototype. After 2 more years of development where will Audi be? Tesla? Acura will be playing catch up for years because their development processes are slow and they just can't keep up and they can't change with their current management. They have old school management in a new world. They have already lost, they just don't know it yet

iutodd

Not to be a dick about it but:

Link

I mean clearly the system worked - like people sat in it and used it. I think it's beyond "concept" phase at this point but I guess we're talking about semantics here more than anything. Maybe I am being a dick about it. Obviously that wasn't a full-interior. There were no HVAC controls for instance. But the core mechanism - the trackpad and necessary software - seemed to be working. That technology seemed to be in the "prototype" phase more so than the concept phase from my perspective.

And Acura has done fairly major work at MMCs - or even off MMC. The 2016 MDX got an entirely new drivetrain (new SHAWD and 9AT) and then got it's official MMC a year later - which also will see a Sport Hybrid coming - so over two model years the MDX has gained a whole new look, gotten a new drivetrain, and received an entirely new powertrain variant. The 2016 ILX got the 8DCT and the body got reworked to meet safety standards (and fit the K24/8DCT) - which isn't really minor work.

And you're probably right BTW. It is a leap of faith to assume that Acura will suddenly turn on the gas. I just think Acura has been working behind the scenes more than we know. The work on the MDX MMC started in 2014 for instance. I'm guessing the TLX MMC was not long after. And the Precision Concept debuted a whole new front graphic for the brand that we saw on a production model only 4 months later. Obviously this new look has been long discussed - I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the interior tech and design work has had a similar amount of behind the scenes work done on it. You can say - oh the seats and steering wheel are from the NSX so they clearly just threw it together....I would say that the NSX seats and steering wheel are both excellent (According to reviews) so don't we want them to inspire the next-generation of interiors?

I guess we will see what happens. A year ago none of us knew about either the Precision Concept or the Precision Cockpit. What will we know a year from now?

boe_d

I can predict what will happen with Acura a year from now - we'll generally agree the design isn't exciting, the tech in their cars is obsolete, the quality can be improved and that precision cockpit (which to me looks slapped together like the design of their entire sedan line) won't be in their cars anytime soon. You might say I'm a glass half full kind of person but I've been following acura for ages and their design department doesn't exactly turn on a dime.

Tony Pac

I am from Montreal, Quebec. I agree with you on the fact the G35 is popular with "boys". Infiniti makes great engines but quality of interior is not great.

weather

boe_d - Don't feel bad, you aren't alone who has lost hope on Acura - I used to be their biggest fan and kept hope time and time again but they let us down with the ILX, the problems that didn't get resolved in the ILX and our RDX (clunking rear noise), then they let us down with the TLX design and then the way they have been handling their ZF debacle - After a while, you just think they are incapable and turn cynical - which is where I am at the moment. Prove me wrong Acura!

boe_d

I would LOVE it if Acura surprised me and brought back the enthusiasm and support I had for them years ago. I would be absolutely thrilled if Acura dumped the ILX and RLX immediately to free up capacity and made a new small car or new TLX like car that blew the doors off their current design. I'd love to see them offer more choices - standard engine, hybrid design (for MPG and reasonable acceleration - not the same as the sports model where acceleration is the key), sports engine and AWD. I'd love to see a dash that looked comparable to the A4 (not like the precision cockpit that looks like someone propped an ipad on top of the steering column). I'd love an exterior that looks like the design came first and the parts were custom made to fit it. To me the exterior still looks like the parts were purchased and assembled and the "design" is just the result of assembling parts that were bought in bulk. Maybe they need to let the guy who looks like the mailroom clerk from "Just Shoot Me" stick to making SUVs and get someone who designs cars for a living give it a go.

weather

^^ LMAO!! They all say we have a look-alike in the world - Seems Merek found his! OMG that is too funny!

All kidding aside, you shared many of the same things I hope for with the addition of a night of romance with Jennifer Aniston

Tony Pac

weather - Your sense of humour is priceless

Tony Pac

"More changes could lurk under the hood. With mainstream Honda switching to a turbo-heavy lineup, the TLX could see either its base four-cylinder or its optional V-6 (or both) swapped out for a turbo four."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...01029965/acura

pyrodan007

Alas, if it was only the engine the source of some customers nightmares on the current TLX, well I'd be truly happy. The infotainment system needs a serious dose of Viagra to get me invigorated since it can be slow and frustrating to use. Does Honda have one of those too?

RDX10

I am not afraid to admit that I absolutely despised Honda and everything they stood for until I bought my 1G RDX. The way it drove, the turbo 4, the AWD system, the interior design...just so much of it absolutely turned me into an Acura fanboy..so much so that I sold my RDX because it was too small and bought an MDX where before I could never see myself in a Honda product. Suffice to say I am a breath away from posting my MDX for sale (for other reasons) and this will inevitably be my last Honda-Acura product for a VERY long time.

It really sucks to see what the brand was capable of and to see where it has went. Back in 2007 (even 2005) they were really killing it with things like backup camera and a super snazzy AWD system with very competitive engines (The 300hp j37 was IMHO a testament to the engineering department at Honda where every other brand was using V8's or turbos to break into the 300hp range as well chrysler had a 3.7l making a whopping 70hp less!!). There was a time when they were considered the tech brand IMHO and look where we are today. Thing is, even if they move their infotainment a generation forward, almost everybody else including mainstream brands are like 5 generations ahead. They are still going to be way behind everyone else by that time.

keith7120

Fairly reliable? I guess. I had two m45's. The rack and pinion went out before 60kmiles on the 06 model and the A/C went out on the 09. My wife drove infinity, I drive Acura's. I've owned all TL models from 96, but I skipped on the TLX, it went a bit smaller and I went bigger to the MDX. The super unleaded V8 gas guzzling Premium unleaded fuel only engine didn't help the M45 much either.

Tony Pac

The grass is always greener on the other side (of the fence). That's all....We complain about Acura on this forum that their reliability sux, design is boring and sells are down.
In fact, I know Infiniti owners that are complaining about the reliability and cheap material used. In addition, they say it's a b**** when you go to the dealer for the maintenance. Super expensive.