nore03

I have been an Acura fan for a long time but they make it harder and harder year after year to stay on the ship. Now that I am older and I have done a little better for myself and have the ability to spend a little money and buy nice cars, it kind of bothers me how Honda deals with the Acura brand. Seeing the new Cr-v release with all the tech that the TLX have in it I can't help but think..... What direction is Honda really going to take with the Acura brand? I always refer back to the idea that Acura is a "smart brand" to buy when you want luxury, sport and reliability but honestly.... Are brands really not that reliable anymore? Especially when most people don't even keep cars longer than 4 to 5 years anyway? I do not want to jump ship to another brand cause I really do enjoy Acura. I had a 2005 RL for 9 years then had a 2015 TLX Advance and now a 2016 Advance and they are the exact same car. It seems strange that they would keep the same car for 3 years without any tweaks(except to the tranny) while every other brand tries to stay up to date with tech. I almost feel like Honda is just trying to let the Acura brand die out slowly. The way they introduce tech in the Honda cars is not how they introduce tech in the Acura brand. Though I am not a fan of the apple car play and android auto, why would the Honda brand get it before the Acura brand? Why would all Accords offer sensing but only the TLX advance offer it? I don't want to seem like I am bashing Acura because again I do love the brand but what is really there goal? Is it just loyalty that they have that keeps customers in their cars?

Saintor

I always found it weird that Honda gets the latest update first.... case in evidence; ILX vs the new Civic.

I remember 2001 both Civic and Acura 1.7EL (Canada) were released at the same time, about the last time.

KeithL

Honda still has not figured out Acura, they keep trying, but have not nailed it yet. The market segments Acura is in lines up with the Korean and Japanese more than the Germans. The Asians are ramping up the tech and value thus putting a squeeze on Acura that is hard to win. Honda has no choice, but to load up their bread and butter Honda products quickly and often ahead of the Acura products especially since virtually all of the Acura products are built off a Honda counterpart. The real problem is Acura really needs to leap frog with Acura in a big way, to help it stand out.

TheAcAvenger

Android auto / Apple carplay are more popular in mainstream cars than luxury cars, but I do agree that acura's navigation and interface is lacking compared to more expensive offerings. They make it clear that they're a premium brand and not a luxury brand, which is fine. Unforunately, everyone can't help but compare them to the most similar Honda and that makes Acura look like a less-than-ideal value proposition. Acura needs new engines and a tech refresh and I think they'll be just fine. You could say the exact same things about the status of Lexus's offerings. The tech is uninspiring compared to the Germans and their engines are horribly out of date. I've been pretty negative on the brand, but I do think they're starting to turn it around. With Acura being a North American-only brand, we're never going to live in a world where Acura has some mind-blowoing electronics (think current gen Audis) while Honda languishes with old garbage (think current gen VWs), but turbocharged motors, more automonous driving capability, and the permanent banishment of FWD from the brand (except maybe the base ILX) would be a nice start.

In the meantime, just enjoy the fact you can get CPO TLX AWDs for the low 30s

pyrodan007

I honestly and regretfully fully agree. After having had a 07 TL Type-S, a 12 TL FWD, and a 15 TLX AWD Elite; it may be my last Acura for the next little while. Seeing the transmission and various issues some TLX owners (including myself) have had, the whole reliability card is pretty much gone. When a Civic has more tech than my 40k car, something is seriously wrong with the management on both divisions. The performance card was never there, Civic (not even SI) seems so much sportier than the ILX/TLX. I have about a year to decide what to get next before lease is up, no way am I keeping my TLX. I am seriously looking at the Audi A4/S4. Extremely cool tech AND performance. I know reliability with Germans is very iffy, but I know some have had very little problems. And if leasing, really not a problem.

I'm really looking forward to some specs announcements for the upcoming 18 TLX since it's a make it or break it situation for me. If no mechanical changes are done, I'm out. I can deal with some some tech differences, but the infotainment really needs to be refreshed. Getting really sad that a freakin 20k car (new Prius Prime) has better looking graphics than the top of the line Acura sedan.

I also REALLY HATE it that Acura only announces the new model a month or so before it's released. Tell us something to make us excited, they did it with the NSX for 3 years lol.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I think Keith nailed it. The Accord/Civic/CR-V are the cash cows for Honda and they have to keep them competitive with Kia/Hyundai/Toyota/Nissan etc. So they get the best tech available at the time - they can't afford to hold much back to save for the Acura brand.

Frankly I think they could focus more on luxury and powertrain to make a difference. Simply give the TLX a better performance package with some nicer amenities (granted they do that to some degree) - something to make you go "wow" when you pull out for your test drive. Give the Accord owners who progress in their career an upgrade path without having to look at Lexus.

That said - the trend these days are for SUV's and CUV's - so I suspect the ILX/TLX/RLX will take a back seat to the MDX/RDX as that's the hot segment right now. It will be interesting to see what the next gen RDX is like.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You could also look at it as Honda using those products as the guinea pigs for new tech before being confident enough to put them in the higher end cars. They probably rather have a mad $25K customer than $45K.
I think the brand is progressing naturally...it's just sad that they think so few of their followers aren't interested so much in performance by giving up on things like the manual transmissions. Also, we're enthusiasts on this site...and they aren't catering to enthusiasts so it's only natural to come on here and read mostly doom and gloom when in reality there are probably tons of happy customers.

on the flip side, it makes it feel like a hell of a bargain to be able to "downgrade" and go with a Civic or Accord and save $200 a month in car payment and not feel like you're missing out.

spoiler900

The reason why TLX is exactly the same 3 years because 2018 will be a HUGE change. New grill, exhaust tips showing, new features, ASPEC edition, lots to come. It should be released in early spring of 2017 for 2018 model. Exciting. I know it will be great!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

acura exec in the house....(?)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

lol did you come up with that all on your own?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

From around 2009-2012, Honda made some bad decisions - cancelling the V10 HSV supercar, V8 engine, FR platform, making the cheap 9g Civic, taking Acura to the smart luxury theme, etc.

The brand as a whole suffered in those years, as well as the following years. Since the Civic, Accord, etc are the bread and butter models, it makes sense for Honda to fix those up first. As such, we got the 2013 Civic facelift right away, a very competitive 9g Accord, followed by the new Pilot, Ridgeline, 10g Civic, etc.

Since Honda decided to take Acura to the smart luxury route, we got the RLX, ILX, and TLX. As we are approaching the end of the model cycle for these cars, and that Honda is now taking Acura to yet another direction (as shown by the precision concept), we will see what Honda has in store for Acura in the next few years.

lltfly

I think contrarily on new tech experiment. I think they probably rather have the mad 45k customer than 25K customer. Honda sells tons of Accord , civic and crv etc. the sale amount for Acura is very less comparing to honda cars. it is better to piss off minority but majority. for 25K customers, the reliability is the top concern, at this group of people for car buying, there is no brand loyalty, bad reliability is going to lose customers quickly. but for 45k buyer, the service is better in dealership, this is going to increase the tolerance on some issues.

Like 8dct, I guess maybe it would be put into 10 gen accord. for 9 gen accord, the cvt maybe just temporary solution. and it has complaints on jerk and others like other cvts.
now the 8dct is experimenting on ilx and 2.4 TLX. 8dct, due to size and torque capability, it will never to be mated with j35, so the 2.4 is the good friend and the ideal mate. honda sells a lot of 2.4 accord but very less 2.4 TLX and ILX. I do not think 8ct is designed and developed for those little amount of sale on tlx and ilx comparing to accord

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Interesting. My wife just bought a 16 CR-V with the Earthdreams 2.4/CVT powertrain and the CVT in her truck is pretty impressive. It really is. If they tune it the same in the next gen Accord I don't think it's a problem. I'm guessing the CVT is in the Accord to stay for a while.

Meanwhile the DCT *is* one of the things that differentiates Acura from Honda - I think they keep it that way for a while yet. That said - I could see the Accord Touring getting the 9sp transmission. On the Acura side I'm guessing eventually the TXL will get a 2.0 turbo to replace the 2.4 - giving it more HP and better MPG's. Again - another thing to differentiate them from the 2.4 Honda Earthdreams engine in most of the Accords.

lltfly

8DCT could differentiate acura and honda. but the point is that if honda wants to use 8dct to specialize Acura, the 8dct on the size and torque would be fitting to J35 also. but for J35 engine Honda does not have good tranny to mate so that the af 9at got picked to be put into v6 tlx and all v6 acura products.
Again, developing a new transmission is costing a lot. you need large amount of productions to reduce the cost in the product line. if using 8dct to distinguish acura and honda, the original design of 8dct would consider about fitting to all acura products but just 2.4 tlx and ilx which really not selling that much.
Current accord and other honda products with cvt is fine, Nissan using cvt for all. toyota keeps old 6at for all except collrra. if 8dct will be put into 10 gen accord, it will beat his competitors to the ground.

this is very possible, in China, there is a honda product named Spirior which is pretty much as same as Accord. but it is mated with 8DCt with 2.4 engine.
hope honda put 8dct into 10gen accord.


likelihood, if acura builds 2.0 or 2.4 turbo in TLX and RDX with around 240 torque, the 8DCT could be perfect fit. but due to acura's competitor, Lexus, Infinite keeping the v6 engine. as luxury brand, J35 still has its mission to achieve. so 8DCT will have very limit amount of use on Acura in years. it could be having more responsibilities on honda lineup.

mondster

We know for sure that the new grille and exposed tips are coming. Although im not sure if it counts as a huge change. I doubt theyll change the infotainment system. Only other changes i can see happening are the ones seen in the 2017 mdx... better looking seats with contrasting stitching, real wood and 360 camera on the advance model.

KeithL

ok take that statement and play it with 2015 is going to be HUGE change! As people were complaining about the 4G and we got drum roll please..... the TLX.

Everyone goes through this even gen hoping Acura gets better with the next gen.

as for engines and such I don't think would make as much difference as styling inside and out, including the infotainment. Most people get drawn in by looks and visible features. Mainstream folks don't go look at a car because it has some fancy tranny or turbo. Sure the enthusiast will, but the bulk of customers could care less.

jwong77

Its pretty sad when exposed exhaust tips is considered part of a HUGE change.

alpha0

For Aspec model, if Acura does not have other new option of engine/tranny, they should use 6 AT and 310 hp engine of RLX FWD. No point in limiting TLX for RLX which no one is buying.

TacoBello

Wow, a whopping 20hp more.

and likely no extra torque. Or very little, at best.

C'mon guys... Acura is quite literally causing you to set your own personal bar too low.

atl7

I'd be happy with the sport hybrid setup at MMC. The instant power paired with 50+ extra hp would be a nice upgrade! Plus even better MPGs in the city.

pyrodan007

Hybrid would be very cool on the TLX. Not to mention that the RLX uses a 7 speed dual clutch transmission. Would take it any day over that lazy 9 speed ZF!

alpha0

I was referring to A-spec model, not Type S.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, hopefully it will use the 3.5L from RLX instead of 3.0L from MDX.

saturno_v

I think that is the most likely option if Acura decide to bump up the TLX performance at MMC...a Sport Hybrid setup like the RLX....a distant possibility could be a downgraded version of the V6 turbo of the NSX....very distant possibility in my opinion.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I think that would be a very attractive option - however it would be near impossible for them to slot it in the same spot price-wise. You can't have "value luxury" pricing and advanced sport hybrid performance in the same bucket.

pyrodan007

I think it would work since just like the higher tier luxury companies (Lexus, Audi), value shoppers can stick with the base models (2.4 TLX, 4 cyclinder basic models). Those that want performance don't care about money, just look at the S/M/AMG lines from the Germans. Different strokes for different folks. If Acura is counting on the value luxury customers, then they should remove the NSX since very few can afford it lol

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Of course you're correct - they could always have it as the top trim performance option. I wonder though if they really want to go head to head with the Germans in that regard. The RLX Sport Hybrid by all accounts is a great driving machine but they sell about 10 of them a year. Maybe because the of the nondescript styling, or maybe because most people who are going to drop that kind of cash on a car want the brand cachet that comes along with it. Regardless - at the price point they would have to sell a sport hybrid TLX I suspect they wouldn't find too many takers in the current market.

atl7

I think Acura would charge less for the sport hybrid system in the TLX given that it starts at $32k whereas the MDX is $45k and RLX is $55k. I bet it would be a $3-$4k option in the TLX which is very reasonably priced. I'd like to see a turbo 4 and SH-SH-AWD V6 for the 2018 TLX, I think these 2 engines would draw a better line between the TLX and Accord.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Maybe - I suspect the internal cost of building a sport hybrid model may be more than 3 to 4 thousand but that's just a guess.

Frankly I think the turbo option is the easiest way forward. Add another 30 HP and give some more torque to the low and mid range and the Accord comparisons start to become more difficult to make. Then add some higher end trim to the cabin and you've got something for Accord owners to aspire to. Maybe tweak the styling a bit too - make it a tad more aggressive.

pyrodan007

I fully agree. The whole hybrid system, although cool and performance happy, is too complex to include in the MMC. Plus factor in the heavy and expansive batteries, and the return on investment may not be so great. The turbo sounds like an easier option, especially that the MDX is getting one soon. I'd really like them to add a Virtual Cockpit display, basically new screen and software. And please change the transmission, I think that would be THE CHANGE which will win back my heart ... for now. Unless they announce that the SH part of the AWD will no longer be present ... then back at square one lol

atl7

It's definitely not too complex to include in MMC. Was just done on the '17 MDX, already in the RLX, and it's in the NSX- Acura is mastering this system with each new model coming out with it. It's a $5,500 system in the RLX, but that's because it's a $55k sedan you're messing with, they can put more upmark in it. It wouldn't be as expensive to put in the TLX granted the size and structure of the vehicle. If Acura can put this in their people-hauler SUV, I don't see why they wouldn't put it in the TLX.

Nexx

you are spot on, not only the cost but then people here would bitch about the added weight. im hoping for some small snails mated to a v6 for the Type-S

TheAcAvenger

Ignoring people who want an impressive motor and catering to the value market is fine, but they aren't doing that either. I still can't get a 4 cylinder with advance package. I still can't get a 4 cylinder with all wheel drive. I think an all wheel drive 4-cyl would sell really well. Safety oriented people in northern states like it because they've convinced themselves its safer. Enthusiasts like it because it isn't as prone to understeer. There really aren't many 4 cylinder all wheel drive options available outside of the Germans. Subaru Legacy? Impreza? WRX? IS250/300? There's definitely a market for it. When the TLX debuted, one of the dealers who posts on this site countered that complaint by saying that Acura wasn't designed to handle a lot of different SKUs/variants, and I understand that.... But if you want to separate from Honda, then cut out the base models. Tech becomes standard, advance becomes tech. Obviously the thought of the awd drivetrain sapping power from that anemic 4 cylinder is depressing, but we have to start somewhere. If I cant have a 350hp TL Type-S as a fun dd, a 4 cylinder awd advance would make for a nice responsible all-weather dad-car.

alpha0

Did you get any more information about MMC?

I think if Acura was going to put eSHAWD in TLX, they would have already done by this time. Why wait till MMC when all parts were available? Plus eSHAWD in RLX and MDX is not tagged as Type S, so how can they tag same system as type s in TLX?

TheAcAvenger

the same way the s4 engine is the regular v6 in an a6, and an S6 engine is the regular engine in a A8? When you consider that 5th gen TL in 2016 has a whopping 26 more hp than the 2nd gen TL Type-S from 2002, you quickly realize that going sport hybrid on the TLX would be worthy of extreme celebration and the Type-S badge

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I wonder if the extra weight of the SH-AWD would ding the MPG's - seems the CAFE standards drive a lot of the changes in the auto industry these days. Of course if you mate a smaller turbo with the SH-AWD maybe you break even. That would be attractive.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

For the RLX Tech, the weight difference between FWD and eSH-AWD is about 343lb. The price difference is $5500.

The current TLX V6 is $35350 at 3585lb.

Based on the above, a TLX V6 eSH-AWD Tech should be around $40850 at 3928lb:
Power: 377hp
Torque: 341lbft
Weight: 3928lb
Price: $41k

How do the above compare to the competition?

BMW 340i Xdrive:
Power: 320hp
Torque: 330lbft
Weight: 3858lb
Price: $50k

Mercedes Benz C450 AMG:
Power: 362hp
Torque: 384lbft
Weight: 3834lb
Price: $51.7k

Infiniti Q60 Red Sport 400:
Power: 400hp
Torque: 350lbft
Weight: 3872lb
Price: $48.9k

Audi S4 (2017 - new gen):
Power: 354hp
Torque: 369lbft
Weight: unknown
Price: Around $50k

nore03

I do not think it's impossible to get a TLX to sell well if they want to offer some nice performance options and tech options and make us pay for it. I look at the MDX and see how well it does and how expensive it is and they offer it. They just need to do it right if they are going to do it. The problem I have is they haven't even tried. Instead of these exotic over the top styling changes they keep doing why not get back to the basics and offer a car that drives better than it's competitors and also offers some great tech. I remember when the TL was a car on the market that offered a lot for the money. Offered options you couldn't really find in the competition. Now they are like in the middle to the bottom for what they offer. I hate that Nissan/Infiniti has pushed the envelope and offered tech and performance so people can choose. If I weren't such a non Infiniti fan they would be a logical choice when you want performance and tech. It's got to hurt Honda that when people are ready to upgrade from the Honda's of the world they look at Lexus, Infiniti, Audi and so on. That doesn't even make sense to me. People shouldn't cross shop Acura and Honda then have to look else where for more luxury and tech.

TacoBello

While your reasoning does make logical sense, I would be HIGHLY surprised if the TLX was putting down the same power as the RLX. If that is the case, Acura might as well kill off the RLX entirely.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

You might be right - but arguably the RLX was done (mostly) right - as far as tech and performance goes - and they can't give them away. I don't think you can use the MDX as a point of comparison as it's also in the super hot segment right now - and even "non luxury" three row SUV's (like the CX9) top out near 40k. Frankly I wonder if the luxury/sport sedan market is so saturated that they feel there is more money to be made in the value luxury slot. Certainly seems to have been the focus for the TLX and ILX.