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I think that's different though. What you are talking about is more to do with reliability. In that case, it's true that once someone has had a bad experience, it's hard to convince that person to come back.
Boe_d on the other hand is talking about lack of features. So, if the car is improved with more up-to-date technologies, better powertrain, styling, etc, he/she is more likely to consider the new product.
By far the biggest complaint for the TLX was/is the 9 speed zf transmission. Not just the hard shifting but the lack of response and sporty feeling. If they had kept the old 6 speed transmission (and put better tires on it) the TLX section on AZ would be a ghost town
I still think one of the biggest mistakes they made was the marketing message and the disconnect with reality. Not that that's unusual for the auto industry but they could have positioned the car much better IMO. Meanwhile the big $$ these days are in the SUV/CUV segment and they do quite well there - the sedan market is the red headed stepchild.
Only because the V6 is too tame/underpowered against its competitive set. As other brands are slowly figuring out, those spending $40k+ are much pickier with details and performance-related specs.
Given the proliferation of eSH-AWD, probably safe to assume the hybrid and S variants will be the same model, while the 4-cyl gets a turbo. This puts it more on par with its competitors, but they may shoot themselves in the foot again by making the turbo-4 the S/V6 replacement and keeping the old 4 banger as-is.
Depends - the type S and hybrid would be the same model if the hybrid tech was to emphasize acceleration. The Accord hybrid is to emphasize MPG. I'd rather have the great MPG than 4 second acceleration but I'm not in the market for a type-s. The accord is nearly 50mpg and about 7.5 0-60. I figure with some tweaking it could be about 40plus MPG and about 7 second acceleration. Since I'm not spending my spare time racing for pinks - that is plenty good enough for me. I'm not towing a yacht so I don't care much about HP. To me the logical separation would be hybrid with great MPG, 4 cyl - lower cost but adequate MPG and type S for people who want to believe their sedan is a race car or hauling a double wide - it could be hybrid or it could be a hemi or whatever with a nitro boost switch. Rust inducing spoiler, flame decal and road scraping body kit optional.
I figure having a semi luxury car with some of the best MPG and acceleration would get some press. Having a semi-luxury type-s with some "sport" angle/joy of driving (0-60 in 5 sec, manual and automatic suspension tuning) would also get some press. This would cause a nice halo for the 4 cyl model as well. Frankly other than advertisement you don't see a lot of press excitement about the current TLX - nor should you imho. They'll still need to update the dash tech and interior quality as well as fix the front end.
I figure having a semi luxury car with some of the best MPG and acceleration would get some press. Having a semi-luxury type-s with some "sport" angle/joy of driving (0-60 in 5 sec, manual and automatic suspension tuning) would also get some press.
I don't know - by all accounts the RLX Sport Hybrid was a cutting edge car (tech wise) and a good performer but they can't give them away and they got little to no press. Granted it's not positioned as semi-luxury but what went wrong there?
I don't know - by all accounts the RLX Sport Hybrid was a cutting edge car (tech wise) and a good performer but they can't give them away and they got little to no press. Granted it's not positioned as semi-luxury but what went wrong there?
This is just my opinion here but I think the RLX is a lost cause - nice car but too expensive to get much interest- it doesn't have the cache or whatever you want to call it that a Mercedes, Lexus or BMW have in that price range. I think if you are buying a car in that price range you are going to get the car you've had your eye on for years. Some might even get a car say they are good at their job or to make a statement that they've worked hard and deserve a little treat for that effort. Some might buy it to impress others - you've always wanted people to see you in a... I don't know a lot of people that think I hope someday my friends will see me in an Acura (unless it is the nsx). The RLX doesn't have great MPG (not terrible though) which I think is more the reason they want a hybrid than to say I'll get a hybrid to get good acceleration (that isn't to say you can't use hybrid tech to get really impressive acceleration). I think they get a hybrid either because they hate going to the gas station and waiting for someone to pick their cigarettes (Marlborough, soft pack, gold logo, low menthol, limited edition...) and lottery tickets (let me see my kids were born - hold on, I know this), people who hate taking time to stop at a gas station in general (me), they are actually concerned about our dependence on oil (yeah - I guess me too), or they just want to insist they show the world they are in a hybrid (they'll probably pay for the extra large hybrid logo upgrade package) and their farts don't smell and they can't eat wheat or meat or whatever it is "in" to be intolerant of these days.
I don't think even if you put an engine that defied the laws of thermodynamics and was a perpetual motion engine with the optional flux capacitor you would see a lot of RLX sales.
I thought about it and I've decided they could sell the RLX at its current price if they marketed it to the people who are going to gravitate towards it - the retirement car. Make it the car to buy when it could be the last car you plan on buying. I think it might sell if they included - unlimited standard maintenance for the life of the vehicle (at any dealership) - fuel filter, sensors fuses, air filter, transmission etc., One free car wash every month and free oil changes every 4000 miles and free tire rotation and alignment every 10,000 miles as long as you buy your tires from Acura.
This is just my opinion here but I think the RLX is a lost cause - nice car but too expensive to get much interest- it doesn't have the cache or whatever you want to call it that a Mercedes, Lexus or BMW have in that price range. I think if you are buying a car in that price range you are going to get the car you've had your eye on for years. Some might even get a car say they are good at their job or to make a statement that they've worked hard and deserve a little treat for that effort. Some might buy it to impress others - you've always wanted people to see you in a... I don't know a lot of people that think I hope someday my friends will see me in an Acura (unless it is the nsx). The RLX doesn't have great MPG (not terrible though) which I think is more the reason they want a hybrid than to say I'll get a hybrid to get good acceleration (that isn't to say you can't use hybrid tech to get really impressive acceleration). I think they get a hybrid either because they hate going to the gas station and waiting for someone to pick their cigarettes (Marlborough, soft pack, gold logo, low menthol, limited edition...) and lottery tickets (let me see my kids were born - hold on, I know this), people who hate taking time to stop at a gas station in general (me), they are actually concerned about our dependence on oil (yeah - I guess me too), or they just want to insist they show the world they are in a hybrid (they'll probably pay for the extra large hybrid logo upgrade package) and their farts don't smell and they can't eat wheat or meat or whatever it is "in" to be intolerant of these days.
I don't think even if you put an engine that defied the laws of thermodynamics and was a perpetual motion engine with the optional flux capacitor you would see a lot of RLX sales.
I agree with much of your response (especially brand cachet - if you're dropping 60 grand on a car you want your neighbors to know it!)- but that doesn't really speak to why the car got/gets no press. Or very little. It gets 30 MPG combined with a 0 to 60 time of 5 seconds - in a large sedan. That's pretty impressive really.
I agree with much of your response (especially brand cachet - if you're dropping 60 grand on a car you want your neighbors to know it!)- but that doesn't really speak to why the car got/gets no press. Or very little. It gets 30 MPG combined with a 0 to 60 time of 5 seconds - in a large sedan. That's pretty impressive really.
I really think it's because the outside looks like an Accord. Similar to what Genesis/Hyundai did with the G90. Would you spend 60k on a non-luxury brand? Ya, don't think so lol
but that doesn't really speak to why the car got/gets no press. Or very little.
Again this is just my own opinion with no statistics to back it up but I think that it isn't filling a niche with enough demand that it needs to be filled. I do prefer the interior dash styling on the RLX - somehow it looks a little more elegant and refined (while still being unfortunately obsolete).
I think Acura should drop the RLX and the ILX. Offer more varieties of the TLX. Then try to go after some more younger buyers with an ALX model. The ALX should be based on a smaller body - CIVIC but make it LUXURIOUS for an entry level car with very current dash tech. Offer 2 models - Sports model - 0-60 in 5 seconds and a standard model - 0-60 in 7 seconds even with 32/38MPG starting at $30K. I think they'd be popular in any more densely populated areas where traffic and parking are tight. If they manage to get new converts with the ALX that might eventually trend through the TLX line and they might be able to re-introduce the RLX.
For the sedan market I really think Acura needs to start over. Fire anyone responsible for the "styling" of the 4G TL and TLX or keep them on as a crash test dummy or speed bumps. It is like Acura bought headlights, grills, bodies, engines etc. and then said let's put them together and see what they look like with no concept in advance of what the final product would look like - this goes for the interior and exterior alike. Their new concept "cockpit" pretty much sums up their problem. OK we have a dash - whoops we forgot to put in any instrument panels - OK - just staple some tablets from bestbuy to it and hope no one notices. Wait - these aren't built into the dash so their is no shielding from sunlight - just go with it and if anyone wants any feedback, we'll just make the survey multiple choice like - a. I love the new dash, b. the new dash is perfect, c. the dash looks great or d. the dash is inside the new Acura. Don't give them any room for constructive feedback or negative feedback.
I'd be happy with a gas sipping hybrid - 0-60 in 7 seconds or less - 40MPG highway and city (horsepower doesn't matter to me - I'm not towing anything)- easily achievable using a slightly tweaked version of their Accord hybrid. I live in LA and believe me city driving is horrible for MPG. Our highways are also so jammed up they are more comparable to city driving for much of the rest of the country. I realize gas is CURRENTLY cheap enough but it won't last forever and they tax the bejesus out of everything in LA so I'd rather not go through more gas than I need to. They are already talking about raising taxes on gas in CA and CT - probably will in other states that have no spending controls.
Yea the Accord hybrid powertrain is highly rated. Awesome combination of performance and efficiency. I agree, can't expect energy prices to be low all the time....
Originally Posted by mondster
I wonder when the official reveal is
My guess is Jan 2017 in the autoshow.
Originally Posted by CheeseyPoofs McNut
By far the biggest complaint for the TLX was/is the 9 speed zf transmission. Not just the hard shifting but the lack of response and sporty feeling. If they had kept the old 6 speed transmission (and put better tires on it) the TLX section on AZ would be a ghost town
I still think one of the biggest mistakes they made was the marketing message and the disconnect with reality. Not that that's unusual for the auto industry but they could have positioned the car much better IMO. Meanwhile the big $$ these days are in the SUV/CUV segment and they do quite well there - the sedan market is the red headed stepchild.
Haha, ya, all I hear about is the 9-speed ZF tranny here.
Are you talking about "it's that kind of thrill" slogan? Ya, that's bad marketing.....They could've talked about how the car has many features and it's quiet and stuff, rather than positioning it as a performance sedan.
Depends - the type S and hybrid would be the same model if the hybrid tech was to emphasize acceleration.
I figure having a semi luxury car with some of the best MPG and acceleration would get some press. Having a semi-luxury type-s with some "sport" angle/joy of driving (0-60 in 5 sec, manual and automatic suspension tuning) would also get some press. This would cause a nice halo for the 4 cyl model as well.
Pretty sure they learned their lesson with non-sporty hybrid tech (e.g. ILX). That said, their other hybrids (NSX, RLX, MDX) aren't and probably won't break sales records either but with their recent push on "performance" that seems to be their way forward, and giving the TLX yet another piece of Accord tech isn't going to help that cause.
And again with the $40k+ market (hypothetical price for a 4-cyl hybrid TLX, given the Accord Hybrid starts ~$30k), consumers simply prioritize performance over fuel efficiency so there will likely be little if any good press.
By far the biggest complaint for the TLX was/is the 9 speed zf transmission. Not just the hard shifting but the lack of response and sporty feeling. If they had kept the old 6 speed transmission (and put better tires on it) the TLX section on AZ would be a ghost town
I still think one of the biggest mistakes they made was the marketing message and the disconnect with reality. Not that that's unusual for the auto industry but they could have positioned the car much better IMO. Meanwhile the big $$ these days are in the SUV/CUV segment and they do quite well there - the sedan market is the red headed stepchild.
Aurelius...No worries, it happens to all of us. This group are quite passionate about Acura products Welcome to the board, I see you are relatively new here
Pretty sure they learned their lesson with non-sporty hybrid tech (e.g. ILX). That said, their other hybrids (NSX, RLX, MDX) aren't and probably won't break sales records either but with their recent push on "performance" that seems to be their way forward, and giving the TLX yet another piece of Accord tech isn't going to help that cause.
And again with the $40k+ market (hypothetical price for a 4-cyl hybrid TLX, given the Accord Hybrid starts ~$30k), consumers simply prioritize performance over fuel efficiency so there will likely be little if any good press.
The ILX hybrid had pretty crappy gas mileage - it was the original accord hybrid (2005) fiasco revisited - mediocre on both mpg and acceleration. I don't think they learned much other than hybrids with bad gas mileage don't sell - whoops - nope they did that with the RLX too didn't they? You may be right about their prioritize however, I believe over 20% of Lexus ES sales are the hybrid model. However their hybrid has one slight flaw IMHO - it is the acceleration due to the hybrid design. Using the accord hybrid technology the Acura TLX hybrid could in theory have both better acceleration and mpg. The lexus hybrid sales have been so good they've put the hybrid tech in more of their models.
I'm not saying a sports model wouldn't sell - in fact I'm pretty sure I suggested it being one of the three models but frankly while many of the posters in AZ seem to think strapping a rocket to the TLX would increase sales I'm guessing it wouldn't even increase it by 5% - it won't overcome the ugly front end, the fact it is a sedan that people are trying to convince themselves is a dragster, nor the fact it has antiquated tech inside. Perhaps some giant side exhaust pipes that shot flames?
I admit - I agree with that. I'm not sure if the new emblem front grill is what will definitely go on the MMC but the Acura logo looks out of proportion - kind of reminds me of a giant emblem gold chain worn by someone trying to look cool.
I haven't read through all of the posts here yet but glanced at the couple of "spy photos" that were linked. As I posted elsewhere I was invited to one of those focus things several months ago that was obviously sponsored by Acura. The vehicle under consideration was touted to be the next TL/TLX and it looked very much like the Acura Precision Concept--a real stunner. In comparison, the "spy photos" going around now are a huge disappointment compared to what Acura was showing at the focus event.
I think part of the problem is that in the "concept" model the use unrealistic body molding that is like an inch from the ground so it couldn't drive on a street but probably would be OK for driving in a mall (the parking lot of the mall might be a little rough but IN the mall would probably be OK). They also tend to put wheels on that would never be on a production vehicle. I'd love it if they said this is what our final product will look like. Sure the spoke design might be a little different but the grill, the tires, the body, the mirrors etc will be very close to the production model.
I'm won't trade my TLX just for a grill and exhaust, they have to improve the trans, vibration and other problems not just a face lift. I'm happy with the engine but they could up the HP and better tuning for the trans, I wish they go to one screen for navi and controls, maybe better rims, brakes and calipers like the Type S, jewel eyes fogs to match HL and maybe people will happily pay $500 for fog lights. Also if they are going to have the body kit please do not use a different color rubber seals, looks cheap! Acura, Please do not make the TLX for my grandparents, do it for the enthusiasts and the loyal buyers, the brand has the RLX for the boring people.
I haven't read through all of the posts here yet but glanced at the couple of "spy photos" that were linked. As I posted elsewhere I was invited to one of those focus things several months ago that was obviously sponsored by Acura. The vehicle under consideration was touted to be the next TL/TLX and it looked very much like the Acura Precision Concept--a real stunner. In comparison, the "spy photos" going around now are a huge disappointment compared to what Acura was showing at the focus event.
I haven't read through all of the posts here yet but glanced at the couple of "spy photos" that were linked. As I posted elsewhere I was invited to one of those focus things several months ago that was obviously sponsored by Acura. The vehicle under consideration was touted to be the next TL/TLX and it looked very much like the Acura Precision Concept--a real stunner. In comparison, the "spy photos" going around now are a huge disappointment compared to what Acura was showing at the focus event.
I think part of the problem is that in the "concept" model the use unrealistic body molding that is like an inch from the ground so it couldn't drive on a street but probably would be OK for driving in a mall (the parking lot of the mall might be a little rough but IN the mall would probably be OK). They also tend to put wheels on that would never be on a production vehicle. I'd love it if they said this is what our final product will look like. Sure the spoke design might be a little different but the grill, the tires, the body, the mirrors etc will be very close to the production model.
The vehicle that I saw at the focus group looked very streetable and really an evolutionary design. Along with the other vehicles it was being compared against (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, current TLX) it was a clear standout. The follow-up questions after the physical look-over of the exterior and interior made it sound like what I was looking at was already in the works. The questions included such things as engine configurations and price points but from talking with the folks conducting the survey, it sounded like the vehicle was targeted for later than 2018. So maybe the linked spyshots are just a mild mid-year transition until the more dramatic change?
The only difference was that the car I saw was finished in a gunmetal silver metallic paint. The mock-up of the interior was also essentially identical to what is shown at that link above.
So you are the one that hacked my personal picture website. In my defense, I hadn't waxed that day - I had done the car but hadn't had a chance to do my own waxing.
The vehicle under consideration was touted to be the next TL/TLX and it looked very much like the Acura Precision Concept--a real stunner. In comparison, the "spy photos" going around now are a huge disappointment compared to what Acura was showing at the focus event.
It is likely what they'll do with the 6th generation. I wouldn't expect something overly different as the MMC
So you are the one that hacked my personal picture website. In my defense, I hadn't waxed that day - I had done the car but hadn't had a chance to do my own waxing.
Waxing for a high gloss or to remove debris? If it is the first you'll probably get nasty swirl marks from the buffing tool.
I kind of like the precision concept car but it has a very expensive look to it. If they could offer it for the same price as the TLX, I think they'll have a winner. If it is in the price of the RLX I think they'll have a touch sell. The seats concern me - I get the feeling they look cool but aren't terribly comfortable. Of course as this is an Acura concept car, any similarity between it and the final product will be purely coincidental. Chances of a standard vehicle coming with suicide doors seems highly unlikely. It might be too big to fit in an LA parking slot - hopefully they'll make a entry level version that is a tad smaller -
The RLX failed because the initial PAWS model (released in early 2013) was a complete diasaster in terms of build quality. Over 40+ TSBs (that still continue to roll in) a Navigation system that performed worse than my 2006 TL, and a suspension system that couldn't even keep up with my wifes entry level ILX. Add to that the conservative "Accord" like styling and the overpriced MSRP, it completely marred any chance of the eSH-AWD version getting any recognition.
I leased a very early 2014 RLX Advanced for 39 months, putting over 60k miles on it, and has gone down as the worst car ownership experience in my 20+ years of driving vehicles. I took a chance trusting in the brands quality after having a great experience with my 2006 TL and expected to at least get the same if not better for a flagship vehicle costing me almost three times that what I paid for my TL, and instead what I got was a car that took many steps "backwards". On the other hand my 2016 ILX beats my previous RLX in every category, except interior design and sheer engine performance (HP), at nearly three times less the monthly lease payment.
That should tell you enough when your entry level vehicle outstands your flagship vehicle...you have a real problem.
Last edited by holografique; 12-09-2016 at 09:18 PM.
Acura should have only offered the RLX in the Sport Hybrid trim. That's the only one with any real value. Actually, I don't see why they don't offer all their models in SH-AWD only...that would cut down on
costs by offering one drivetrain, I would think, and it would give comparison buyers a reason to step away from the Accord.
I have high hopes for the FMC TLX if they really plan on some sort of derivative of the Concept. The MMC coming up should be a step in the right direction; however, if there is no Type S or transmission changes/fixes, it's going to be a slow few years in the sedan sales dept. A six-speed manual would be a nice option and would qualm a lot of complaints about lagging upshifts/jerkiness, etc.
12-08-2016, 07:50 AM
